View Full Version : Search Function Frustration
It may just be me but the forum's Search feature returns too many results to be useful.
Best I can tell, adding words expands the search rather than limiting it. For example, searching "jerry chair" brings up more results than just searching "chair". Also, you'd expect the message thread on the Jerry Chair to be the top result but it's not.
Can the Search feature be modified to make it more useful? Program the site so search assumes AND between the words rather than OR? Another great feature would be if you could put phrases in quotes to better target results.
oldgringo
02-04-2010, 10:35
I agree.....
Cannibal
02-04-2010, 10:37
I think the spelling of "Search" should be modified to a more fitting length. I'm thinking it should have 4 letters. :D
headchange4u
02-04-2010, 10:41
Have you tried using the Advanced Search feature (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/search.php)? It allows you to narrow down some of the criteia when searching.
Another useful search function is to use Google to search a site. There is the standard way to accomplish this:
Site Specific Search:
Often, you want to search a specific website for content that matches a certain phrase. Even if the site doesn’t support a built-in search feature, you can use Google to search the site for your term. Simply use the "site:somesite.com" modifier.
Examples:
"jerry chair" site:www.hammockforums.net
OR
site:www.hammockforums.net jerry chair
and a new, easier way (http://www.google.com/sitesearch/).
angrysparrow
02-04-2010, 10:50
What I'm hearing is that you think the relevance weighting scores for term matches are too high. I will see about tweaking that some, and we'll look again in a week or so.
That being said, the site is set to return recent term matches above older ones.
mbiraman
02-04-2010, 10:53
+1 on the google search.
headchange4u
02-04-2010, 11:10
I find the easiest way to narrow down results is to use the Advance Search use the drop down box to 'Search Titles Only' instead of 'Search Entire Post'. Then try searching for just 'jerry' or just 'chair'.
Cannibal
02-04-2010, 11:12
Tags used to be fairly useful too, but I see fewer and fewer of them these days. Maybe time for another "how to use tags" thread?
headchange4u
02-04-2010, 11:15
Tags used to be fairly useful too, but I see fewer and fewer of them these days. Maybe time for another "how to use tags" thread?
Here's the original thread (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4273) on using the Tag system.
BillyBob58
02-04-2010, 11:28
+1 on the google search.
it works quite well!
I'm not sure if this was a fluke or not but I did a search for Jerry Chair and put it in quotes ("Jerry Chair"), and it seemed to return useful results. I believe quotes make the search look for exact matches rather than finding matches for each word in your query.
when to use quotes in a search:
http://www4.uwm.edu/libraries/help/faq/quotation-marks.cfm
I'm not sure if this was a fluke or not but I did a search for Jerry Chair and put it in quotes ("Jerry Chair"), and it seemed to return useful results. I believe quotes make the search look for exact matches rather than finding matches for each word in your query.
when to use quotes in a search:
http://www4.uwm.edu/libraries/help/faq/quotation-marks.cfm
Putting Jerry Chair in quotes produces 500 hits (the max allowed) and I doubt that phrase was used that many times on this site. It also ranked the Jerry Chair discussion at about 18th.
I have used the advanced search many times, but it also applies the same 'AND' function to a multiple word search.
Will look into the Google option, but a good search engine native to the site would be best.
Putting Jerry Chair in quotes produces 500 hits (the max allowed) and I doubt that phrase was used that many times on this site. It also ranked the Jerry Chair discussion at about 18th.
That's weird...I get 19 results w/o the quotes and 16 results when using quotes.
I'm searching for threads rather than posts though.
I have had similar frustrations.
The search phrases jerry chair, "Jerry Chair", Jerry and chair, Jerry + Chair, and Jerry & chair all yield the same results. Looking through the results either Jerry or chair is highlighted. And any thread posted by Jerry W where his signature line is his name, shows up regardless of the topic of conversation.
The actual Jerry Chair thread is 23rd on the list for me regardless of whether I put in Jerry Chair, "Jerry Chair" or Jerry and chair.
on Google "jerry chair", hammockforums.net listed this this thread (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12778) first
One trick you can use with a lot of searches, including hammock forums is to use a + in front of each word that must be included. If you don't and have multiple words it will return anything that has either words. So, if you want only results that have both jerry and chair, search for +jerry +chair
One trick you can use with a lot of searches, including hammock forums is to use a + in front of each word that must be included. If you don't and have multiple words it will return anything that has either words. So, if you want only results that have both jerry and chair, search for +jerry +chair
Those techniques don't work here, unfortunately.
VegaMike
02-04-2010, 13:56
I can help with tag cloud maintenance. I have a background in controlled vocabularies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_vocabulary).
I noticed some duplicates that should be refactored (consolidated):
hammock hammocks
hang hanging hangout
question questions
tarp tarps
I'm happy to lend a hand with this.
Do I need special access rights for this endeavor?
One trick you can use with a lot of searches, including hammock forums is to use a + in front of each word that must be included. If you don't and have multiple words it will return anything that has either words. So, if you want only results that have both jerry and chair, search for +jerry +chair
dgmyrs: This does not change the results here compared to the other search combinations I listed in the post right above yours. Try it. You'll see.
I can help with tag cloud maintenance. I have a background in controlled vocabularies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_vocabulary).
Unlike Mike I have a background in very "uncontrolled vocabularies":D
angrysparrow
02-04-2010, 14:03
Folks, just like I said above, I adjusted the result relevance weighting. Any 'results' being claimed need to be re-done.
A single search for the term jerry chair yields 21 threads where it is mentioned, and they are weighted towards the most recent hit (i.e. this thread).
angrysparrow
02-04-2010, 14:06
I'm happy to lend a hand with this.
Mike, thanks for the offer. vBulletin has limited tag maintainence features in the current version, so you would be of limited assistance I'm afraid. There is no mechanism to prevent them from re-occurring. It would be better to wait for that to be implemented before we get into a tag overhaul.
Even if there are duplicate tags, a search for the shorter of the two will yield what you seek.
I really like the tags idea, philosophically. What I often do, though, is search the site via Google, with a 'site:hammockforums.net' search modifier. You can get a little more complex in the search terms than vbulletin seems to handle.
Example: Google "jerry chair" site:hammockforums.net
(http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=%22jerry+chair%22+site%3Ahammockforums.net&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&oq=%22jerry+chair%22+site%3Ahammockforums.net&fp=c26c79a56c95bda8)
Folks, just like I said above, I adjusted the result relevance weighting. Any 'results' being claimed need to be re-done.
A single search for the term jerry chair yields 21 threads where it is mentioned, and they are weighted towards the most recent hit (i.e. this thread).
Thanks AS but I'm still getting 500 hits.
angrysparrow
02-04-2010, 14:38
Thanks AS but I'm still getting 500 hits.
I think you're getting the results cached, perhaps in your browser?
Even a broad search for the word 'chair' yields less than that. :confused:
Folks, just like I said above, I adjusted the result relevance weighting. Any 'results' being claimed need to be re-done.
A single search for the term jerry chair yields 21 threads where it is mentioned, and they are weighted towards the most recent hit (i.e. this thread).
I'm sorry AS. I'm really not trying to beat this to death, but perhaps I am not getting what you are saying. I just redid my search using "Jerry Chair". These are my top 7 threads:
1) Search Function Frustration --clearly we have used the term "Jerry Chair" here...
2) The Perfect Trees By Stormcrow -- picks out "Jerry" from post #26
3) Driducks Weather Shield -- picks out "Jerry" post #4
4) Hammocks for Haiti -- picks out "chair" post #6
5) Spring MAHHA Hang April16-18, 2010 -- picks out "chair" post #38
6) New way to get into woods -- picks out "Jerry" post#6
7) What would you do with... -- first time it picks out the combined phrase "Jerry Chair", post #9.
For vBulletin, what is the best way to combine terms to ONLY get that combination? " ", +, and, & -- they all seem to give the same results. And all cases I am getting the equivalent of jerry OR chair.
Again, I'm very sorry if I am obsessing or making this difficult. Also I quit firefox, cleared the cache, logged back on and tried again and got nearly the same results. A couple other random threads with Jerry or chair listed in the top 7.
Whoa!
Something changed in the last 30 seconds. Now 19 of 19 threads list "Jerry Chair"
But a similar search on "double hammock" still lists many threads with just "hammock".
So what is the vBulletin preferred way of combining terms for searches?
I usually have the opposite problem. :)
angrysparrow
02-04-2010, 14:56
Yep...full stop...
That different people were getting different results made me do some tinkering. It turned out that boolean searching was disabled for Donating Members... I don't know how or why, but it's fixed now.
Your results should be MUCH MUCH better.
Yep...full stop...
That different people were getting different results made me do some tinkering. It turned out that boolean searching was disabled for Donating Members... I don't know how or why, but it's fixed now.
Your results should be MUCH MUCH better.
You ROCK! Works great now.
Thanks.
NCPatrick
02-04-2010, 15:57
Whoohoo! Thanks AS. Didn't ever try to search much because it was difficult to find anything. Now we will all be "super searchers".
Many thanks.
BillyBob58
02-04-2010, 16:10
I think you're getting the results cached, perhaps in your browser?
Even a broad search for the word 'chair' yields less than that. :confused:
I get 19 threads with simple search, with this thread 1st. Same with +Jerry+chair.
PS: Guess that is because of the "Boolean turned off" correction.
Thanks AS! The search function is much more usable now. :thumbup:
I'm glad Knotty brought this up. It seemed most times I searched I was getting 500 hits. If I couldn't remember the member name or the correct forum, to narrow it down, I usually just gave up.
Jerry
See! We search for Jerry and he just shows up...:laugh:
It turned out that boolean searching was disabled for Donating Members... I don't know how or why, but it's fixed now.
Your results should be MUCH MUCH better.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!!
I always figured there was something inherent in the BB s/w. Now I can skip the Google bypass.
VegaMike
02-04-2010, 16:33
Unlike Mike I have a background in very "uncontrolled vocabularies":D
:lol: As when obsessing about Bongo boil times, hmmm?? :D
Mike, thanks for the offer. vBulletin has limited tag maintainence features in the current version, so you would be of limited assistance I'm afraid. There is no mechanism to prevent them from re-occurring. It would be better to wait for that to be implemented before we get into a tag overhaul.
Ok, if the need arises, keep me in mind for tag normalization. I am really geeky about taxonomy.. comes from spending too much time with database administration, software configuration management, and asset management (photography).
Even if there are duplicate tags, a search for the shorter of the two will yield what you seek.
Good to know; thanks. I wish Gmail supported partial word searches. And, Gmail has no regular expression (wildcard) searches! :thumbdown:
It turned out that boolean searching was disabled for Donating Members...
Um, a most curious "benefit" for Donating Members.. guess that's why I'm not in sales. ;):rolleyes: Thanks for researching/fixing the issue.
angrysparrow
02-04-2010, 16:40
Um, a most curious "benefit" for Donating Members..
Most assuredly not on purpose... :(
I'm glad Knotty brought this up.
So am I!
Cannibal
02-04-2010, 16:42
No wonder I haven't been able to find anything easily lately.
Another tip of the hat to the Mod Squad! :cool: