View Full Version : Cuben fiber - Ultralight gear...
SuperTroll
07-03-2007, 12:50
Ran across this site where the guy has developed an ultralight hammock made of Cuban Fiber (Ultralight sailcloth)...
check out his attempt to break the sud 5 lb weight for an AT thruhike....
http://ultraliteskunkworks.blogspot.com/2007/03/cuben-fiber-hammock-part-3.html
headchange4u
07-03-2007, 13:42
Yeah, that's Gardenville. He's a member here at HF. there is a thread on that hammock here somewhere. A search for Cuben Fiber will pull it up. He is a cuben fiber pioneer in the way of DIY gear. He has a few thread on backpackinglight.com with some other really cool CF stuff.
headchange4u
07-03-2007, 13:47
Here's the thread:
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=693&highlight=CUBEN+FIBER
It's cool, but over $20 a yard right now.
SuperTroll
07-03-2007, 13:59
cuban or cuben?...I found both spellings in a search on the net...
I thought it was cuban. Whatever they are using in sails now.
headchange4u
07-03-2007, 14:16
Gardenville spells it "Cuben" . He has stated that it feels like crumpled up wax paper. It's not breathable so there would be some condensation issues and the "bath tub" effect of holding water.
Just Jeff
07-03-2007, 17:14
I'd spell it with an "E"...since the website does.
http://www.cubenfiber.com
Six moon designs had a tarp made of it at trail days. I think they wanted a little over $200 for a 1 person ground pitch tarp. Although it only weighted aroud 5oz.
When I make my millions I am planning on upgrading to this stuff. Before that I'll probibly wait until a good job comes my way, or the price goes down.
Just Jeff
07-03-2007, 20:54
Speaking of the spelling, I'm gonna change the thread title to Cuben so it'll show up in future searches.
hangnout
08-13-2007, 17:48
I received an order of cuben fiber today. 9.8 yards x 48 inch weighs 9.6 oz. I could have an 8x14 tarp at about 10 oz. This was my splurge. I sold some gear I was not using to get this. I am trying to decide whether to make basic rectangle, a copy of the Cat tarps, or a SG/JRB style. Some articles I have read say that the cuben fiber does not stretch like ripstop so the cat cut is not as critical. Any experience working with cuben would be appreciated.
slowhike
08-13-2007, 18:47
all right! hope you'll be taking pictures.
i would contact bill (gardenville) mentioned earlier in this thread. i'm sure he would make a suggestion on tarp styles.
hangnout
08-20-2007, 22:53
I decided to go with a hex style due to fabric size. I made it with a 12' ridgeline and ended a little over 90" wide. Tarp weight with tabs 5.9oz. I could have gone a little lighter by using different material for the pull tabs but what is a 1/3 of an oz at this point. I put some skins and rope I already had on it and ended up at 7.7oz total pack weight minus stakes. I can live with that:) I will be testing this weekend and take some pics.
slowhike
08-21-2007, 05:27
wow, that sounds great! did you have enough cuben left to make the skins or did you just use 1.1 oz?
hangnout
08-21-2007, 06:40
did you have enough cuben left to make the skins or did you just use 1.1 oz?
No, I had some mesh skins on another tarp that I used. I did have some material left over to use on some smaller projects.
You are making all this up until we see pics.
SuperTroll
08-21-2007, 13:56
what I want is Cuben Fibre/Aerogel/Cuben fibre Laminate.....wadda ya think?
hangnout
08-21-2007, 17:55
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/1/1/6/tarp.jpg
You are making all this up until we see pics.
Yeah, I know. I could not wait till the weekend to try so I did a quick hang in the backyard just to see if would hold together with my sewing:D
NCPatrick
08-21-2007, 19:33
Awesome. Thanks for posting the pic.
slowhike
08-21-2007, 20:26
looks great. i like the hex shape... makes it a little easier to go to & from the hammock.
how did you do the tie outs?
hangnout
08-21-2007, 21:39
how did you do the tie outs?
Very carefully!:D
I put the webbing on each side and sewed a Z pattern for the tie outs. By putting the webbing on both sides I felt that the fabric would only have to handle the pulling from the tieouts and the webbing would hold the thread better. I did not put extra material in the corners because I felt it would weaken it more than help due to the extra needle holes. The needle leaves a disctinct hole in this fabric that does not self heal.
I bartacked the webbing to the ridgeline. I did not want to sew in the direction of the ridgeline because it would result in a series of needle holes that could act like a "quick open tab":eek: The cuben fiber is closer to dealing with tyvek than nylon.
I had read somewhere that because of the low stretch of cuben that the cat cut is not as critical. I feel this is true because I cut straight lines and it was plenty tight with no stretch.
In the intitial hang this all seemed to be correct. I believe in testing then test some more so I will post anything that did not work.
No cat cut? You could have saved half an ounce. lol Nice tarp!
NCPatrick
08-22-2007, 06:59
FWIW, how much did that tarp cost, altogether?
hangnout
08-22-2007, 17:39
I ordered the fabric directly from Cuben. It was 16.66 a yard. The smallest size you can order is between 9-10 yards. After packaging and shipping you will be close to $20 a yard for the the minimum order. They pack it in a big HD cardboard tube that a truck could run over. I used 8 yds for the tarp. $160 in tarp
slowhike
08-22-2007, 20:02
hangnout... it would be great if you were able to come to hot springs for the SEHHA camp out (sept 14-16). see post # 13 in this thread...
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1571&highlight=SEHHA
i'd like to see (& touch) some of the cuben fabric in person:D
but it will be quite a while before i can make a purchase:o
warbonnetguy
08-22-2007, 21:00
has anyone tried using glue instead of stitches on cf? maybe some of that 3m adhesive tape?
hangnout
08-22-2007, 21:53
I thought about using the 3M adhesive tape but could not find anyone else who had used it without sewing also. I did read a post by one guy who said the tape failed in really cold weather. The tape probably would handle pulling along the ridgeline but I was not sure about the "peeling" from the pressure of the tie outs. I think the tape would work just fine in low stress areas. I think when they use it to make sails they use a special bonding agent that requires a glue gun that cost about $1500. I am still learning about this stuff.
hangnout
08-22-2007, 21:57
hangnout... it would be great if you were able to come to hot springs for the SEHHA camp out (sept 14-16). see post # 13 in this thread...
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1571&highlight=SEHHA
i'd like to see (& touch) some of the cuben fabric in person:D
but it will be quite a while before i can make a purchase:o
Wish I could make this one but the boss had other plans:(
[/quote]
I bartacked the webbing to the ridgeline. I did not want to sew in the direction of the ridgeline because it would result in a series of needle holes that could act like a "quick open tab":eek: The cuben fiber is closer to dealing with tyvek than nylon.
In the intitial hang this all seemed to be correct. I believe in testing then test some more so I will post anything that did not work.[/QUOTE]
Ok, I keep trying to stay away from this stuff but I could save about a pound over the tarp I have now, so it's veeery tempting. Do you think this materal would hold up for a thru-hike? I thought about using a solid piece for the top and seaming the sides so that the ridge would maybe be stronger. How is it to sew? Does the fabric feel strong and secure after sewing. It's used for sails so I know it can handle the wind I just want to make sure I don't weaken it by sewing incorrectly. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
headchange4u
08-28-2007, 14:20
HANGnOUT,
Very nice indeed. Expensive but nice.
What's the finished weight and dimensions of your tarp
hangnout
08-28-2007, 19:20
Ok, I keep trying to stay away from this stuff but I could save about a pound over the tarp I have now, so it's veeery tempting. Do you think this materal would hold up for a thru-hike?
I wanted a bigger tarp than I had but did not want the weight. This seemed to be the solution. I need to use it awhile before I could recommend it for a thru hike but the stuff is pretty tough.
I thought about using a solid piece for the top and seaming the sides so that the ridge would maybe be stronger. How is it to sew? Does the fabric feel strong and secure after sewing. It's used for sails so I know it can handle the wind I just want to make sure I don't weaken it by sewing incorrectly. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
I think it would be stronger with the standard tarp design of the seam in the ridgline. My concern was just with the pullouts on the ridgeline. I am definitely not a sewing expert but made it thru this project ok. The material is tougher than it looks. You can not cut it with scissors.
What's the finished weight and dimensions of your tarp
144" ridgline 46" sides 5.9oz for tarp only.
NCPatrick
08-29-2007, 08:02
Now you just need to make a comfortably sized Cuben hammock, and you'll be all set! :)
headchange4u
08-29-2007, 10:40
DANG! 5.9oz is awesome. Over a pound lighter than my tarp. Very impressive.
DANG! 5.9oz is awesome. Over a pound lighter than my tarp. Very impressive.
That's just what I was thinking. I bit the bullet and ordered a panel of this stuff yesterday. Very nice people to work with. They sent me a list of adhesives that can be used with the cuben. Unfortunately some of them require a very expensive aplicator to apply them. I guess Ill just stick with the sewing. I found out from a site that sells stuff sacks made of cuben that you can use silnett to seal the seams that are sewn. I'll let you know how it goes.
hangnout
08-30-2007, 17:16
That's just what I was thinking. I bit the bullet and ordered a panel of this stuff yesterday. Very nice people to work with. They sent me a list of adhesives that can be used with the cuben. Unfortunately some of them require a very expensive aplicator to apply them. I guess Ill just stick with the sewing. I found out from a site that sells stuff sacks made of cuben that you can use silnett to seal the seams that are sewn. I'll let you know how it goes
I used the Silnett to seal my ridgeline. I used Scotch tape to hold the ridgeline seam until I could sew it.
hangnout
08-30-2007, 17:23
Now you just need to make a comfortably sized Cuben hammock, and you'll be all set!
It would be strong enough but not breathable at all. If you click the link on the first post of this thread Gardenville has some pics of his Cuben hammock.
NCPatrick
08-30-2007, 18:54
I've seen Gardenville's pictures. Very cool (but expensive). I didn't know how breathable Cuben would be, but it makes sense that it wouldn't be very breathable if it makes good tarp material...
still, great job on your tarp!
I used the Silnett to seal my ridgeline. I used Scotch tape to hold the ridgeline seam until I could sew it.
That's a great idea to use tape. Did you use a flat felled seam or just overlap the two pieces? Also, I was thinking of sewing a double rolled hem around the perimeter of the tarp for strength, what do you think?
hangnout
08-31-2007, 06:57
Flat felled seam. I just folded it once for the hem. The material is fairly transparent so dark thread showed my lack of sewing skills! Next time I will use a gray thread.
Do a search on C3 sail tape. Sailrite (among others) carries it. It'd be my choice of a tarp of this nature. Sewing weakens a lot of these fabrics considerably.
headchange4u
09-07-2007, 10:33
Quest Outfitters (http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.html#CUBEN%20TAPE) (very bottom of the page) sells double-sided cuben tape.
Do a search on C3 sail tape. Sailrite (among others) carries it. It'd be my choice of a tarp of this nature. Sewing weakens a lot of these fabrics considerably.
The reason I did not go this route is because I've read several accounts of the tape failing in cold temps. Sewing is reliable with this material according to the manufacturer. If the tarp were to rip, it would (should) stop at the next re-enforcing fiber. I'll let you know if it's thru hike material.
slowhike
09-07-2007, 18:26
brian, if you get a chance, listen to the latest pod cast on BPL.com.
the guy is on his return trip of a yo yo on the CDT & he's using a cuben tarp.
if i understood him correctly, he has not had any problems or need for repair.
hangnout
09-09-2007, 18:54
Finally got a chance to test my cuben tarp in some bad weather. Strong winds with hard rain changing to a steady rain. It worked great with no signs of any problems. This material still amazes me about how strong it is to be so light.
warbonnetguy
09-09-2007, 19:56
The reason I did not go this route is because I've read several accounts of the tape failing in cold temps. Sewing is reliable with this material according to the manufacturer. If the tarp were to rip, it would (should) stop at the next re-enforcing fiber. I'll let you know if it's thru hike material.
bet you could do both, the tape would keep the stress off the stitches most of the time and the stitches would strengthen the tape in cold temps.
i'll bet the manufacturer isn't talking about sewn pull tabs being strong enough, but rather full length seams.
Warbonnet,
Absolutely, taped and then sewn would likely give the best of both worlds for those patient enough to do it. And yes pull tabs would still need to be sewn to reinforcing patches which distribute the stresses to a larger area of the thin fabric.
The Sailrite website has a demo video with the C3 tape, its interesting, and there is plenty of info showing the tape is actually stronger than sewing with the finer fabrics. But the tape would still help distribute the stresses from the perforations due to sewing, but still have the mechanical "back-up" that the threads give in stitching.
I thought about using the 3M adhesive tape but could not find anyone else who had used it without sewing also.
I just received my cuben fiber order. It only took a month to get here.:mad: Anyway I just wanted to double check with you to make sure I understand your construction method. You sewed your ridgeline right? My plan is that my edges will be rolled and hemmed and the ridge will be french seamed. Just wanted to check before I get started. Thanks.
slowhike
09-25-2007, 15:16
hey T-back... i know you've only got a few days before you start the biggest hike of your life, but take a deep breath bro & just do what you need to do to get ready, one step at a time.
everything will work out fine !!! ...tim
hey T-back... i know you've only got a few days before you start the biggest hike of your life, but take a deep breath bro & just do what you need to do to get ready, one step at a time.
everything will work out fine !!! ...tim
I'll try. Nothing like starting a project a few days before a thru hike. It will be worth it though, between my tarp and poncho it will save me about a pound and a half.
Thanks for the pep talk.
headchange4u
09-25-2007, 18:26
T-BACK,
I assume you are making a hex tarp. If so, I would suggest using some of the scrap material that's left after cutting the sides to perform some sewing tests before starting the tarp. I would sew some pieces together using different stitch lengths and then try and pull them apart to see which stitch is the strongest and least likely to tear.
T-BACK,
I assume you are making a hex tarp. If so, I would suggest using some of the scrap material that's left after cutting the sides to perform some sewing tests before starting the tarp. I would sew some pieces together using different stitch lengths and then try and pull them apart to see which stitch is the strongest and least likely to tear.
Actually, I'm making an A FRAME. I tried the widest stitch my machine will make. I sewed the ridge and it seems to be holding pretty well. I'm not sure where I'm going to place the tie outs yet. I'm using alligator clips with pieces of silicone tubing slipped over the teeth as temporary ties. That way I can move them around and see where the best tie points are. I did not use the hex shape because I wanted to be able to fold and close off the ends for storm protection and and warmth. It got dark on me tonite so I'll finish it tomorrow. Thanks for all the advice and help. Hopefully I'll get some pics up tomorrow.
slowhike
09-26-2007, 19:38
T-back... what method do you plan to use to be able to close the ends?
have you seen the new tarp style that dave & ed are working on?
it uses 4 tie outs on each side, w/ the two out side corners being shorter so they can be angled in.
T-back... what method do you plan to use to be able to close the ends?
have you seen the new tarp style that dave & ed are working on?
it uses 4 tie outs on each side, w/ the two out side corners being shorter so they can be angled in.
That's pretty much what I'm doing with mine. I was inspired by Dave's design. Mine doesn't need the cat cuts so it's much easier to put together. Speaking of easy to put together:rolleyes: , this cuben is not. It's hard to cut and you have to trim the sides off where there are no fibers. There is a lot of prep time. On the other hand, my tarp (11x8 minus seams and hems) only weighs in at 4.6 oz. . I still have to put on the side tieouts. I'm going to use 5 per side to distribute wind loads and to give me the ability to close the ends. I bought a guyline / slide adjuster set from BPL. 50' of line with sliders is only 1 oz. I played around with it a little last night in the rain. It's a little noisy but then so is sil nylon. I layed my Mac Cat over it and the sides are the same length as is the ridgeline. The cuben tarp gives me more material to work with on the ends. I've also added a narrow (1/4"?) strip of velcro hooks around the perimeter of the tarp. This allows me to simply stick the wedding tule I use as bug netting up to create a large "NO FLY ZONE" for the swamp areas that I will be traveling through. I'm not sure how much weight this will ad but the piece I use for my hammok netting which is big enough to set up as a "ground bivy:eek: " only weighs 2.3 oz. . I hope to have it finished and seamsealed today. Oh, one other plus I noticed last night, I would not hesitate to drink water collected from this tarp. Once the rain has washed the dust off clean water can be "harvested" (hows that for a P.C. word) from it as there are no coatings or surfactants on the fabric. With sil/nylon I always ended up with a layer of foam on the top of my water. Anyway, enough rambling. I'll try to get pics up today.
hangnout
09-28-2007, 19:11
I just received my cuben fiber order. It only took a month to get here.:mad: Anyway I just wanted to double check with you to make sure I understand your construction method. You sewed your ridgeline right? My plan is that my edges will be rolled and hemmed and the ridge will be french seamed. Just wanted to check before I get started. Thanks.
Sorry for the not answering your post till now. I have been out of town with no computer access. It sounds like you have it done. Can't wait to see pics. I did sew it and it has been working great. I did seam seal the ridgeline.
Sorry for the not answering your post till now.
No problem. I finally finished it tonite. I thought it was
finished yesterday but we had a big storm today and I noticed that some of the tie out stitch holes were starting to stretch. I was afraid that it might rip. I cut some 1/2 and 1/4 circles for re enforcement patches and used some 5 minute locktite epoxy to glue them in place. It worked great. I should be all set as far as my tarp goes. My ridgeline seam sealing got a good test today and did not leak. Two more days 'til D-DAY.