View Full Version : looking for first hammock
spectastic
05-15-2018, 16:03
I've been doing research for the last 3 days, looking for a hammock to replace my gortex bivy. So far, I've got it narrowed down to 3 choices.
1). grand trunk skeeter beater pro
PROS: cheapest, nice and big, bugnet
CONS: need to modify suspension and bugnet, and needs tarp
2). hennessy explorer zip
PROS: nice and big, bugnet, includes rainfly
CONS: need to modify suspension? not as comfortable as warbonnet for some reason?
3). warbonnet eldorado
PROS: everyone says it's more comfortable than HH, cheaper alternative of the WB blackbird xlc, bugnet, includes decent suspension system)
CONS: no tarp (they're pretty pricey),
I'm uncertain which direction i should take. all of these hammocks are large enough for my 6'1" size I think. the more expensive models have asymmetrical cuts, and a "footbox" on the WB to assist with comfort. I've never tried those, so I don't know how effective they really are. I believe the skeeter beeter can be easily modified to have better suspension and bugnet, thus making it easier to pack/unpack, so that's what i'm leaning towards right now.
I think the warbonnet would be the way to go if I want to get more serious. it's supposedly more comfy, and provides a double layer option for insulation, which can be easily used with my air pad (I don't want to invest in an underquilt right now). But it doesn't have the rainfly, which is another $100 if I were to do it properly, and suddenly, I'm spending $300 for a hammock. So right now I'm think of just buying the skeeter beeter for <$90 after modification, and maybe a budget plastic rain cover for longer camping trips. what do you think?
If I were you I would get the Eldorado and as you said use plastic rain cover till you can afford a good tarp!
spectastic
05-15-2018, 16:28
can you elaborate on why? given that the skeeter beeter and eldorado seem to offer the same things, except one of them costs quite a bit less.
also, the eldorado is basically the same as the blackbird, except without the extra room to store things. I'm kind of surprised it's not more popular. Is there a reason for that?
kitsapcowboy
05-15-2018, 16:34
If I were you I would get the Eldorado and as you said use plastic rain cover till you can afford a good tarp!I concur. :shades:
Of the three you menioned the new Eldorado stands as a Titan above the others, but there are so many good cottage vendor options, it's hard to go wrong. I'm a big Dutchware Chamelon fan myself, in addition to owning the Warbonnet XLC and the Simply Light Designs Trail Lair. Or if you have the time, Dream Hammock will certainly make your dreams come true. (I like the Darien...) Also have to give a nod to Little Shop of Hammocks for the Warrior hammock.
Getting your priorities and preferences straight will help you narrow down these options to the right one for you, but if you want to pull the trigger quickly from your list, the Warbonnet and a blue poly tarp from Wal-Mart would be the way to go until you can save up the $60 to $100 necessary for the cheapest quality tarp option from one of the cottage vendors. If you wand to go full Jedi Padawan, you can DIY an asym tarp for $35 or less pretty easily, and it will be a fraction of the size and weight of most of your other options.
mo_hunter
05-15-2018, 16:38
can you elaborate on why? given that the skeeter beeter and eldorado seem to offer the same things, except one of them costs quite a bit less.
also, the eldorado is basically the same as the blackbird, except without the extra room to store things. I'm kind of surprised it's not more popular. Is there a reason for that?
The eldorado just came out. I have a Warbonnet Blackbird xlc and have bought 2 Hennessy explorer zip hammocks for my youngest boys. I’ve changed out the suspension of the Hennessy’s. I like blackbird better, they’re lighter, more comfortable to me. Wooki fits like a glove if you plan on eventually getting a underquilt.
If the eldorado had been out when I bought the Hennessy explorers I would have most definitely bought 2 eldorado hammocks instead.
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Of those three, the Eldorado all the way. I have a Skeeter Beeter Pro (was my first hammock). It's ok, but no where near as comfortable as my Dream Hammock. But why not also throw in a ready-to-ship Dream Hammock Darien ($100), Dream Hammock Raven ($115) or Dutchware Half-Zipped ($115) into the equation?
No harm in having more options!
Plus, most folks here will tell you- you will likely want to go all-in at some point! Get a good hammock now. Save for a nice underquilt and tarp later. There are many inexpensive suitable options for tarps. I used a 9x9 poly tarp ($3.95), pitched in a diamond until I purchased a "real" tarp. Kept me dry every time.
Lastly, there is a reason the Skeeter Beeter Pro costs less than the Eldorado. The Eldorado is longer, has a ridgeline, weighs a lot less, and is constructed out of a single piece of better fabric than the SBP. The triple panel design of the "parachute" hammocks makes it much harder to get a good diagonal lay. And it also keeps the hammock from spreading out properly. A hammock which "cacoons" you puts more pressure on your head, shoulders, and feet- making a comfortable night's sleep tougher.
There are some folks who prefer the SBP design. But by in large, most people find the cottage vendor hammocks much more comfortable.
spectastic
05-15-2018, 17:21
Of those three, the Eldorado all the way. I have a Skeeter Beeter Pro (was my first hammock). It's ok, but no where near as comfortable as my Dream Hammock. But why not also throw in a ready-to-ship Dream Hammock Darien ($100), Dream Hammock Raven ($115) or Dutchware Half-Zipped ($115) into the equation?
No harm in having more options!
Plus, most folks here will tell you- you will likely want to go all-in at some point! Get a good hammock now. Save for a nice underquilt and tarp later. There are many inexpensive suitable options for tarps. I used a 9x9 poly tarp ($3.95), pitched in a diamond until I purchased a "real" tarp. Kept me dry every time.
Lastly, there is a reason the Skeeter Beeter Pro costs less than the Eldorado. The Eldorado is longer, has a ridgeline, weighs a lot less, and is constructed out of a single piece of better fabric than the SBP. The triple panel design of the "parachute" hammocks makes it much harder to get a good diagonal lay. And it also keeps the hammock from spreading out properly. A hammock which "cacoons" you puts more pressure on your head, shoulders, and feet- making a comfortable night's sleep tougher.
There are some folks who prefer the SBP design. But by in large, most people find the cottage vendor hammocks much more comfortable.
how is the eldorado more comfortable than the skeeter beeter? the fabrics are more or less the same dimensions. is it the way that it's cut that allows you to lie flatter?
never looked into the dream hammocks or the dutchware stuff. how do they compare to warbonnet?
also, I'm leaning towards a single, and using the pad inside if needed (as opposed to a double). spending an extra $50 for another layer of fabric underneath for the air pad seems like a lot. I've had no problem sleeping on the pad in my bivy, but I can imagine that being a little more challenging inside a hammock. what do y'all think?
can you elaborate on why? given that the skeeter beeter and eldorado seem to offer the same things, except one of them costs quite a bit less.
also, the eldorado is basically the same as the blackbird, except without the extra room to store things. I'm kind of surprised it's not more popular. Is there a reason for that?
I can't talk about the skeeter beeter, but HH is recommended up to 6' tall people, as you are just a little above the limit, Eldorado should be for you, because it is 11' hammock and must be more comfortable. I'm 5'7" and my expedition is on my limit. Eldorado also has the foot box which is an awesome feature! My wife is shorter than me and she loves the HH, which is a great hammock too, but after replace the suspension.
That being said, if you go with Eldorado I bet you will never think of getting another hammock unless you became addicted like...uhh...a lot of us here? :rolleyes:
spectastic
05-15-2018, 17:36
I can't talk about the skeeter beeter, but HH is recommended up to 6' tall people, as you are just a little above the limit, Eldorado should be for you, because it is 11' hammock and must be more comfortable. I'm 5'7" and my expedition is on my limit. Eldorado also has the foot box which is an awesome feature! My wife is shorter than me and she loves the HH, which is a great hammock too, but after replace the suspension.
That being said, if you go with Eldorado I bet you will never think of getting another hammock unless you became addicted like...uhh...a lot of us here? :rolleyes:
no man, I can't afford to become addicted. lol. I'm just looking for a setup that will let me sleep well during my next trip, and wake up feeling fresh, and not with a bunch of bug bites.
you refer to the expedition, but the HH explorer's dimension is just as good as the warbonnet. the explorer is rated for people up to 7'. that's why i wonder why people keep going to the warbonnet from hh. maybe they were just using the smaller version of the HH?
how is the eldorado more comfortable than the skeeter beeter? the fabrics are more or less the same dimensions. is it the way that it's cut that allows you to lie flatter?
never looked into the dream hammocks or the dutchware stuff. how do they compare to warbonnet?
also, I'm leaning towards a single, and using the pad inside if needed (as opposed to a double). spending an extra $50 for another layer of fabric underneath for the air pad seems like a lot. I've had no problem sleeping on the pad in my bivy, but I can imagine that being a little more challenging inside a hammock. what do y'all think?I'm sorry if I did not answer that sufficiently in my previous post. The SBP uses a triple panel design- which inhibits the hammock's ability to spread open. Thus, it makes it harder to lay on a good diagonal, and achieve maximum comfort. The nature of triple panel hammocks also tends to add pressure to the head, shoulders, and feet- causing discomfort for many folks.
The Eldorado, as well as Dream Hammock and Dutch hammocks use a single piece of fabric for the hammock body. This not only provides more comfort, but also provides a better strength-to- weight ratio. Trust me, the fabric on the Eldorado (as well as the others I've mentioned) is much better than the "parachute" nylon used on the Skeeter Beeter. Their fabrics feel better on the skin, and also provide a more optimal amount of stretch to keep the user comfortable.
Lastly, the bug net material on the Skeeter Beeter is very fragile, does not provide good visibility, nor does it allow for good airflow. The Warbonnets, Dream Hammocks, and Dutch offerings use a much better netting- which fixes all three of the aforementioned issues with the netting on the SBP.
Dream Hammock creates an amazing product (I admit to some bias- as it is my main hammock). But Dutchware also makes fantastic hammocks- which many people can attest to. They both compare very favorably to Warbonnet in terms of comfort and quality.
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Sorry, mate.
In this case the explorer will fit you. And I might to say that I'm sure the HH is a great hammock. I no regret to have my Hennessy.
I think people like WB for many reasons, because it is more comfortable, made in USA, light weight, shelf storage, and so on. As someone mentioned, I also can say the same about, Dutchware, Dream Hammock, ect...
Immortalviking
05-15-2018, 19:34
The Eldorado was just released the other week. Expect it to become VERY popular.
ccolclou
05-15-2018, 21:20
I'm a little surprised this isn't more of a debate, actually. I personally would say look at a basic hammock, either netless or one with a symmetrical net, from one of the vendors here.
My thought process:
1) SBP: I had a similar fabric. I didn't mind the feel of the fabric on my skin, but I did feel that it was too stretchy and I sunk into it like quicksand! I hated the seams on the triple panel construction, and I think that droopy net would get old fast.
2) Hennessy: people seem not to stick with them. Too heavy? Too short? Too much fiddling with the suspension? I'm not sure, but it makes me leery that people seem to move on from it after a while.
3) Eldorado: seems great. HOWEVER, it forces you into one lay with the net attached. If you are unsure what your sleep style is, I would say go with something that allows you the flexibility to switch sleeping orientations even during the night. If you know for sure which orientation you sleep, and you don't toss and turn between orientations at night, but all means proceed!
spectastic
05-15-2018, 21:51
3) Eldorado: seems great. HOWEVER, it forces you into one lay with the net attached. If you are unsure what your sleep style is, I would say go with something that allows you the flexibility to switch sleeping orientations even during the night. If you know for sure which orientation you sleep, and you don't toss and turn between orientations at night, but all means proceed!
can you elaborate what you mean by this? how does the net restrict movement, and what kind of hammock would allow you to toss/turn? I'm a side sleeper, and I toss/turn quite a bit.
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it seems like eldorado, dutch, and dream hammocks are what's being recommended over all the others. they all appear to be in the same price range, with dream hammocks appearing to have a slight edge with a few cheaper options and more customization. are there any major distinguishing features that separate these hammocks from each other? i've not looked very deeply into the dream hammocks or the dutch cameleon
Some hammocks are symmetrical- meaning the bugnet is cut symmetrically, letting the user choose whether to lay head left or head right. Asymmetrical hammocks have a bug net that forces the user to lay in one direction only. This is great, if you already know your preference. And some folks feel that asymmetrical hammocks provide a slightly flatter lay. However, if you're just starting out, it's likely you do not yet know which direction you prefer to lay.
That's why I suggested the DH Raven earlier as a good option. It's symmetrical. It has zippers on both sides- which allow entry/exit from either side. It allows the bug net to be stowed above the hammock, or removed completely. And it's very comfortable. It's a great hammock if you're starting out and still figuring out what your preferences are. But it's also just a great hammock- even if you you're a seasoned hammocker.
But you really can't go wrong with any of the cottage vendors here.
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3) Eldorado: seems great. HOWEVER, it forces you into one lay with the net attached. I
I’m pretty sure the Eldorado can be reversed to choose between left or right lay
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I’m pretty sure the Eldorado can be reversed to choose between left or right lay
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYep, you are correct.
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what kind of hammock would allow you to toss/turn? I'm a side sleeper, and I toss/turn quite a bit.
I am also a side sleeper who moves around and I have no problem in my BlackBird. I just grab both sides of my hammock and turn myself over when I want to shift.
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it seems like eldorado, dutch, and dream hammocks are what's being recommended over all the others. they all appear to be in the same price range, with dream hammocks appearing to have a slight edge with a few cheaper options and more customization. are there any major distinguishing features that separate these hammocks from each other? i've not looked very deeply into the dream hammocks or the dutch cameleon
Other than looking at each vendors website and reading all the specs, I would highly suggest checking out Shug’s YouTube channel. You can find a video on the chameleon and raven in his product review playlist. The Eldorado I believe he goes over in his Neusiok trail video.
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spectastic
05-15-2018, 22:23
ohh gotcha, the dream hammocks are symmetrical. does that make them slightly more uncomfortable than the asymmetrical hennessy or warbonnet? or are the DH wide enough for that to not be a factor at all?
I mean at this point, I figure I can just pick one and be happy with it. But it looks like the eldorado is the way to go right now
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also, i bet i can easily make a light weight rainfly real cheap. I mean it's just a piece of rectangle with holes in it. how hard could it be? do people do this? buy 20D nylon, cut it up, and tie the ends to strings to make a rainfly?
spectastic
05-16-2018, 01:18
ok i'm confused again. there's 6 selections of dream hammocks, and the dutch hammocks have the chameleon (which is popular like the blackbird xlc) and the half zip (which has been suggested and has fewer feedback). and they all have different price points and different features. :confused::confused::confused::confused:
michigandave
05-16-2018, 04:33
Have you checked out the Trail Lair from Jared at Simply Light Designs? He may also have one ready to go in his "get up and outdoors clearancevsection". Lots of options, great price and you'll have it super fast. I'm on my second one plus I have a bunch of his gear.
dakotaross
05-16-2018, 06:42
...I personally would say look at a basic hammock, either netless or one with a symmetrical net, from one of the vendors here...
2) Hennessy: people seem not to stick with them. Too heavy? Too short? Too much fiddling with the suspension? I'm not sure, but it makes me leery that people seem to move on from it after a while.
Have you checked out the Trail Lair from Jared at Simply Light Designs? He may also have one ready to go in his "get up and outdoors clearancevsection". Lots of options, great price and you'll have it super fast. I'm on my second one plus I have a bunch of his gear.
Guilty as charged on the Hennessy! I was a summer camper who thought I needed a net. The Hennessy was really superior for that, perhaps except for the small tarp which I never had issue with, but nor did I enjoy it as much as my big one now. Actually, I've come full circle there a bit, going back to an asym when I want to be lighter, which is increasing more often. As I gained an UQ, I realized I needed to be able to reach out and adjust and couldn't do that without a zipper mod on my classic Explorer. Ended up selling it instead of spending more on it. And yeah, never did like the rope suspension. Was beginning to learn about whoopie slings and such and wanted to try something new.
So, I'm in agreement with ccolclou that perhaps the best starter hammock now is a simple gathered end hammock with modular net. Used to be easier to spend much less on this setup than say a Blackbird, but it can still be done. Going to Jared at Simply Light is a great suggestion. Besides having good prices and speedy delivery for custom work, as mentioned he has a section of stuff at discount. For that matter, so does Warbonnet, but Jared seems to have more for less.
If you wanted a netted hammock for cheap, the Byer Kakoon has been selling on Massdrop at a ridiculously low price for a package including a tarp and suspension. Its longer now, so more suitable for camping than it used to be. Its still relatively cheap on Amazon. Still, take a look at SLD (http://www.simplylightdesigns.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/29) to see if there's anything that interests you first.
p.s. the asym I'm using now is the SLD Simplicity which is relatively inexpensive and has a little more coverage than the std stock Hennessy.
ohh gotcha, the dream hammocks are symmetrical. does that make them slightly more uncomfortable than the asymmetrical hennessy or warbonnet?
No, the Raven is symmetrical. The other netted hammocks from Dream Hammock are asymmetrical. Dream Hammocks are in no way less comfortable than a Hennessy or Warbonnet. In fact, Spiguyver just released a YouTube video a couple weeks ago where he and two of his buddies objectively compared the Dutch Chameleon, Warbonnet Blackbird XLC, and Dream Hammock Sparrow. And all three said the Sparrow was the most comfortable.
Now comfort is very subjective; so you can't really take someone else's word as gospel. But I wanted to illustrate the point that most folks regard DH as making very comfortable hammocks. But so does Dutch, and Warbonnet, and Simply Light Designs.
Research is your friend. Go through each vendor's website and dive into the various features. It seems like a lot right now. But you'll quickly figure it out, and it will start making sense.
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I mean at this point, I figure I can just pick one and be happy with it. But it looks like the eldorado is the way to go right now
I think you should go ahead and pull the trigger on whichever way you are leaning right now. Get yourself into a hammock so you can visually see the ins and outs of hammocking and everything should start making sense
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also, i bet i can easily make a light weight rainfly real cheap. I mean it's just a piece of rectangle with holes in it. how hard could it be? do people do this? buy 20D nylon, cut it up, and tie the ends to strings to make a rainfly?
Yes, loads of people make their own tarps. Check out the DIY section of the forum. Make sure you do your research.
However if you are not hiking you can always just buy a cheap Walmart tarp until you decide if this hammocking thing is for you. Because it just doesn’t work out for some people, and that’s ok too.
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can you elaborate on why? given that the skeeter beeter and eldorado seem to offer the same things, except one of them costs quite a bit less.
also, the eldorado is basically the same as the blackbird, except without the extra room to store things. I'm kind of surprised it's not more popular. Is there a reason for that?
The Eldorado is pretty new offering.
See mine at 13:43 in video below.
Shug
https://youtu.be/sMtUwm743-k
87warrior
05-16-2018, 09:55
ok i'm confused again. there's 6 selections of dream hammocks, and the dutch hammocks have the chameleon (which is popular like the blackbird xlc) and the half zip (which has been suggested and has fewer feedback). and they all have different price points and different features. :confused::confused::confused::confused:
Welcome to the rabbit hole of hammocking :cool: The problem is, everybody prefers something a little different and what works well for one person might not work well for another. If you read the forums you can get a better idea of what you might prefer. You can also eliminate certain options if you wish to stay within a certain budget. In any case, you CANNOT GO WRONG with a hammock from a cottage vender.
The first think you need to know is when you want the hammock. Some vendors have a long wait time for custom orders (5+ weeks and others ship within 48 hours). You will want to practice hanging for awhile before your trip so you are not learning how to set up when you are away from home.
You'll also want to know what options you want (or need) in the hammock. Your height would suggest you would like an 11' (or perhaps a wide 10') hammock. Dual layer will be important to help contain the insulation pad you plan to use. I prefer an integrated bug net on my hammock versus an extra net setup, but there are good arguments for either option.
If you decide to get an asymmetrical hammock, beware that the terminology can be confusing. A "right lay" is typically how most folks lay in a hammock (head to the left of center and feet to right of center) whereas a "left lay" is the opposite. Me? I can sleep both ways and got one heck of a deal on a used 'left lay' Dream Hammock. Which brings up another point. Browse the 'for sale' section of this forum. Members are always selling sweet gear at a nice discount. You can easily get more bang for your buck in a hammock if you are comfortable with used gear.
Picking a tarp can be just as confusing as picking a hammock. At least they are a little more forgiving in regards to comfort. I like my cheap Amazon.com tarp.
kitsapcowboy
05-16-2018, 10:07
ok i'm confused again. there's 6 selections of dream hammocks, and the dutch hammocks have the chameleon (which is popular like the blackbird xlc) and the half zip (which has been suggested and has fewer feedback). and they all have different price points and different features. :confused::confused::confused::confused:Each cottage vendor has an integrated-net hammock model that is the "flagship" and one that is simplified and more spartan.
Again, it will get easier for you to choose if you decide what aspects of your new hammock are most important to you. Do you want a lightweight hammock that packs small? Or do you want a feature-laden hammock that has versatility and some creature comforts?
If you want a somewhat heavier hammock that has flexibility and convenience as circumstances change, opt for these:
* Dutchware Chameleon
* Dream Hammock Sparrow
* Warbonnet Blackbird XLC
If you want a simplified hammock with the same comfort as the flagship models but with lighter weight and a scaled-down feature set, opt for these:
* Dutchware Half Zipped
* Dream Hammock Darien
* Warbonnet Eldorado
Within each category above, you can further refine your choice by looking at details, features, weights, price points, and available materials for the hammock body.
And don't forget SLD if you're leaning toward the "flagship" end of the spectrum... HTH...
spectastic
05-16-2018, 12:03
thanks for the summaries. will definitely do more research on those.
one question about the dangerbird. it features a top cover for colder weather insulation. I'm wondering if that top cover can also be used as a rain cover, when the vent holes are covered. do you think that could work or no? conversely, can a rain fly be also used as a top cover during colder weather, by hugging the top of the hammock very closely?
87warrior
05-16-2018, 12:13
one question about the dangerbird. it features a top cover for colder weather insulation. I'm wondering if that top cover can also be used as a rain cover, when the vent holes are covered. do you think that could work or no? conversely, can a rain fly be also used as a top cover during colder weather, by hugging the top of the hammock very closely?
A top cover cannot and will not replace a tarp. The fabric is not waterproof and if it was, rain water would run down the suspension and into the ends of the hammock. You would also combat rain with the hammock body. I'd trust my top cover to keep me dry in a sprinkle or heavy dew, but not much else.
A tarp with doors hung real close to the hammock does help create a warmer sleep and does a great job blocking heat robbing wind.
spectastic
05-16-2018, 14:22
ok, no top cover then.
is there a good way to find out which direction lay i am? i read that the dream hammock and dutch let you pick which direction you can lay. but the darien appears to let you only pick one cut. what does it mean when you can lay in both directions on a hammock? does it just mean that it's symmetric, or is the cut done such that the comfort level is the same on both sides?
also, would sleeping with a pad inside the hammock make it a lot less comfortable? perhaps a double layer design?
HandyRandy
05-16-2018, 14:38
thanks for the summaries. will definitely do more research on those.
one question about the dangerbird. it features a top cover for colder weather insulation. I'm wondering if that top cover can also be used as a rain cover, when the vent holes are covered. do you think that could work or no? conversely, can a rain fly be also used as a top cover during colder weather, by hugging the top of the hammock very closely?
A tarp is practically indispensable. Forget about any notion of not always carrying one with you. It is a rare event when you are not better off with a tarp of some kind. Even if it is just to block wind and bird poop, debris, or sap from falling on your hammock or quilts. It also minimizes UV degradation of your gear. You need to be able to exit your hammock during the rain with out getting your quilts wet. The purpose of that top cover is strictly for extra heat rentention and privacy.
ok, no top cover then.
is there a good way to find out which direction lay i am? i read that the dream hammock and dutch let you pick which direction you can lay. but the darien appears to let you only pick one cut. what does it mean when you can lay in both directions on a hammock? does it just mean that it's symmetric, or is the cut done such that the comfort level is the same on both sides?
also, would sleeping with a pad inside the hammock make it a lot less comfortable? perhaps a double layer design?
The difference in cut is not with the hammock body, but with the way the bug net is cut. Once the netting is zipped to the hammock body, it "forces" the hammock into a certain directional lay.
With most Dream Hammock models, once you choose your direction of lay- that is it. You're stuck with it. The exceptions are with the Raven, and most recently- the Sparrow. On the Raven, the bug net is cut in a symmetrical pattern- which allows the user to switch directions on the fly. The Sparrow now offers a symmetrical bug net/top cover option too.
the Warbonnet Eldorado uses an asymmetrically cut bug net. However, it can be unzipped and flipped upside down to give the user the choice of which direction they want to lay. However with that design, you have to reposition the bug net to switch lay directions. Hammocks with symmetrical bug nets allow you to just switch directions without getting out of the hammock.
The Dutchware Chameleon also operates on the same principal as the Eldorado- with the removable and flip-able net. But recently, Dutch also began offering a symmetrical bug net option for the Chameleon as well- for those who prefer to not have to reposition the net every time they want to switch the direction of their lay.
Does all that make sense?
HandyRandy
05-16-2018, 14:56
ok, no top cover then.
is there a good way to find out which direction lay i am? i read that the dream hammock and dutch let you pick which direction you can lay. but the darien appears to let you only pick one cut. what does it mean when you can lay in both directions on a hammock? does it just mean that it's symmetric, or is the cut done such that the comfort level is the same on both sides?
also, would sleeping with a pad inside the hammock make it a lot less comfortable? perhaps a double layer design?
Most people lay head left, feet right, which is commonly referred to as a right lay. You should really get a netless hammock at first to see what you prefer. All netless hammocks are symmetrical, meaning you can lay in either direction. The asymmetrical hammocks are strictly hammocks with integrated (zippered) bug nets. It simply means the bugnet has been trimmed down where you don’t need it, so that there’s not as much excess netting folding and sagging into your interior space. Netless hammocks are much cheaper. You should start with an add-on style bug net, because they are symmetrical and will allow you to change your hammock without paying for another bug net, because chances are high that you will find that you want to try out a different fabric or length or width for your hammock. Or you may guess wrong on which lay you prefer. Lay direction, length, width, and fabric type are all going to take hands on experience to determine what you will enjoy most, so plan on this and allow yourself to change these parameters by buying a couple different cheap netless hammocks at first befor you invest in a hammock with any extra costly features that you will lose and have to pay for again if/when you decide to try out another kind of hammock body.
HandyRandy
05-16-2018, 15:08
But just so you know, a symmetrical bug net that is zippered will be heavier and more floppy on the sides, so only get it if you have discovered from experience that you do indeed switch from left lay to right lay a lot. Don’t jump the gun here. An add on bug net is symmetrical and will do a better job in both positions than a symmetrical zippered bug net because the excess netting has room to drape outside the hammock’s interior. The Raven might be the only legitimate exception. This should be self explanatory once you watch a video of it in action.I haven’t tried one, but it looks like it would be nearly as good as an asymmetrical hammock. But again, even with the Raven, you may insure yourself from a wrong decision on lay, but you will still pay more for a replacement in another fabric, length or width if you’re unsatisfied with your choices than if you just had to buy another netless hammock and just migrate your add on bugnet to the netless replacement hammock. Heck, you may even decide you want a different color after seeing it in person, so plan on changing your mind, because chances are you will at first.
dakotaross
05-16-2018, 15:21
...can a rain fly be also used as a top cover during colder weather, by hugging the top of the hammock very closely?
Yes, but on a normal "top loading" setup, it can be hard to get it close enough to have the same significant effect that a top cover would, and it would be a real pain getting in and out.
However, it is very possible and practical to do in a classic bottom entry Hennessy.
HandyRandy
05-16-2018, 15:22
Your primary concerns should be making sure it’s got a structural ridgeline, which is simply a bit of cord/rope that goes from one peak end of the hammock to the other. Everyone here agrees that is an important thing to have because it will make it easier to hang properly. Without one, you might hang it too tight. A hammock needs a bit of sag and the structural ridgeline insures that you will have that everytime you hang it. You will still need to be sure not to crank down your suspension so that the straps are horizontal. No, you are aiming for a 30° angle for your straps once you are inside the hammock. Just AIM for this, but don’t worry about precision. And of course the structural ridgeline also becomes necessary to suspend the bugnet in the middle away from your body if you use any kind of bugnet.
For the length, by far the most popular is an 11 foot hammock. For the width, you should go for somewhere between 58” and 65”, depending on your height. For the fabric, you want either Hexon, HyperD, or Robic and in a weight class somewhere between 1.2 and 1.9, depending on your weight and how stretchy or firm you like it to be. These are the parameters, you are most likely going to want to stay within, especially for your first hammock.
HandyRandy
05-16-2018, 15:27
Yes, but on a normal "top loading" setup, it can be hard to get it close enough to have the same significant effect that a top cover would, and it would be a real pain getting in and out.
However, it is very possible and practical to do in a classic bottom entry Hennessy.
Agreed, a zippered top cover is going to be much better than a tarp pitched closely if your looking to retain heat lost from convection and your own exhaled breath. There’s a reason those vents are typically pretty small. A tarp with doors would probably be somewhere between those two options. A tarp that is pitched low and close is really hard on your back during setup and takedown, and when entering and exiting, especially after a day of hiking with a backpack.
HandyRandy
05-16-2018, 15:43
When it comes to the add on styles of bugnets, you can get a bottom entry, which is popular and works well. Or you can get what they call a “sock” which is like a big tube shape of netting that slides on and off horizontally, then you cinch up the ends with a drawstring and a cordlock. But it’s more difficult to use, because you would start with the sock coiled up at the foot end, then hop in and reach down and slide it towards your head end over the hammock with you inside and you have to reach all the way up to the peak and cinch it up, which is not as easy as a bottom entry style bugnet. They have socks with zippers, but that will add weight.
HandyRandy
05-16-2018, 15:49
An underquilt is much more comfortable and lighter and smaller in packed size than a pad, but it’s much more expensive. If you use a closed cell foam pad like most folks do, the pad is basically immune to moisture unlike an underquilt.
A double layer does help keep a pad from sliding around as much, but it will add a bit of weight and packed size. And they cost more money.
HandyRandy
05-16-2018, 16:05
I think you should be looking at SimplyLightDesigns, Dutchware, or Warbonnet because they are the quickest to ship. DreamHammock is indeed top quality, but they have a 4-5 week lead time and for your first hammock, there is nothing that they offer that is compelling enough to wait that long for unless you really know what you want. Unless you want the Raven, but their other offerings can be found at the other 3 vendors.
gunner76
05-16-2018, 17:08
I have a Skeeter Beeter. I find to be on the short side and the bug net is a pain to set up. Also have a Hennessy explorer zip. Its ok but I do not like the feel of the fabric.
Like others have said...get the Eldorado. I am asking my kids to get me one ( in blue ) for my birthday
ccolclou
05-16-2018, 17:32
can you elaborate what you mean by this? how does the net restrict movement, and what kind of hammock would allow you to toss/turn? I'm a side sleeper, and I toss/turn quite a bit.
So, I discovered that I switch around when I sleep. Sometimes I put my head on the right side, with feet to the left, sometimes I do the reverse, even during the same night. I like that flexibility. Some hammocks and nets are symmetrical, so nothing is built around the idea that I will be lying in only one orientation. The Eldorado has a net that does force you into lying in one direction (aka an asymmetrical hammock) BUT it can be assembled in such a way that you could put it on and be forced into the other orientation. For my purposes, I don't use that, because I am not going to unzip the net, reverse it, and re-zip it in the middle of the night every time I toss and change sides.
164650
So, I suggest a plain, no-net hammock, which would allow you to toss and turn and find out which orientation you like to sleep in, or find out you are a switcher like me :-) Admittedly, I think I am a minority with this, but figuring out what way you lay before you buy is sound!
James Fowler
05-16-2018, 18:19
So, I discovered that I switch around when I sleep. Sometimes I put my head on the right side, with feet to the left, sometimes I do the reverse, even during the same night. I like that flexibility. Some hammocks and nets are symmetrical, so nothing is built around the idea that I will be lying in only one orientation. The Eldorado has a net that does force you into lying in one direction (aka an asymmetrical hammock) BUT it can be assembled in such a way that you could put it on and be forced into the other orientation. For my purposes, I don't use that, because I am not going to unzip the net, reverse it, and re-zip it in the middle of the night every time I toss and change sides.
164650
So, I suggest a plain, no-net hammock, which would allow you to toss and turn and find out which orientation you like to sleep in, or find out you are a switcher like me :-) Admittedly, I think I am a minority with this, but figuring out what way you lay before you buy is sound!
If you want to keep it integrated and still be able to easily switch sides, there's a symmetrical bugnet available for the Chameleon. Or just go with a netless with a separate bugnet. One other advantage of a netless is you can keep it cheap (although I wouldn't recommend any cheaper than an 11' Dutch Netless with a ridgeline) to get a better idea of how you'll sleep if you're concerned about moving alot. Personally, I find sleeping on my back in a properly set up 11' hammock very comfortable, but I almost always sleep on my side and move around more in a bed (and that's with a really nice bed). But ultimately the only way to know what works for you is to try it yourself.
spectastic
05-16-2018, 18:58
thanks for everyone's input.
I have it pretty much narrowed down to the dutch half zipped and the WB eldorado. just a couple of more questions
1. the dutch half zipped has half the net zipped into the body, meaning you can't flip it around and change the lay orientation, right? but as mentioned, the eldorado lets you change the lay orientation by flipping the bugnet around. why didn't they just make the duch half zipped a full zipped hammock?...
2. do you guys think getting an outer layer is worthwhile? Like i said, I'll probably be using a pad. it's a klymit static v, and it's 2.5" thick, which is on the thick side as far as pads go. I've not had much trouble sleeping on it inside a bivy, aside form the noise of rubbing against a balloon whenever i toss/turn. do you think it'll be a huge deal if it's inside a hammock? also, according to people on the internet, it looks like <70F is when bottom insulation starts to become necessary. using a pad. how low do you think an average person can comfortably withstand with an airpad? low 40s maybe?
thanks for everyone's input.
I have it pretty much narrowed down to the dutch half zipped and the WB eldorado. just a couple of more questions
1. the dutch half zipped has half the net zipped into the body, meaning you can't flip it around and change the lay orientation, right? but as mentioned, the eldorado lets you change the lay orientation by flipping the bugnet around. why didn't they just make the duch half zipped a full zipped hammock?...
2. do you guys think getting an outer layer is worthwhile? Like i said, I'll probably be using a pad. it's a klymit static v, and it's 2.5" thick, which is on the thick side as far as pads go. I've not had much trouble sleeping on it inside a bivy, aside form the noise of rubbing against a balloon whenever i toss/turn. do you think it'll be a huge deal if it's inside a hammock? also, according to people on the internet, it looks like <70F is when bottom insulation starts to become necessary. using a pad. how low do you think an average person can comfortably withstand with an airpad? low 40s maybe?1. If the Dutch Half-Zipped had a fully zipped bug net, it would be the Chameleon.
2. If you're looking to use a pad, then a double layer will be much easier than fiddling with the pad inside the hammock with you.
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dakotaross
05-16-2018, 20:23
I believe the half wit is symmetrical and can be flipped, or just flip yourself and stick your feet in the net zone which I imagine is of no consequence.
I used a Hennessy (single layer) with a pad for a long time and I now have a double layer which I only occasionally use a pad in between. It does hold the pad much better so that you don't have to adjust as much, but its a little hard to get just right, too. Personally, I'd go cheap on this one since you do have a lot of questions about it. The fully netted Eldorado will also help keep the pad in its place a bit.
I used my Big Agnes insulated pad into the 30s, but I would notice it getting cool in the wee hours. I think an uninsulated air pad would struggle in the 40s. However, you can supplement them with a piece of reflectix underneath, though that probably requires a double layer hammock. You can go pretty low with the cheap CCF pads as they're not as susceptible to convection like the air pads are - they're just not as flexible, and therefore not as comfy. FWIW, my BA pad was a short one, the petite version, and I liked how my feet and head hung off the end which accentuated the feeling of being flat. I had to use a pad extender to increase the width of the 20" pad in order to deal with the fact that the hammock wraps around you. Note that most wide pads are also long which means the ends of the pad start to ride up the sides of the hammock and affect your ability to get flat.
Basically, get a single layer for now because you're going to want an UQ in short order, LOL.
spectastic
05-16-2018, 20:24
thanks for everyone's input.
I have it pretty much narrowed down to the dutch half zipped and the WB eldorado. just a couple of more questions
1. the dutch half zipped has half the net zipped into the body, meaning you can't flip it around and change the lay orientation, right? but as mentioned, the eldorado lets you change the lay orientation by flipping the bugnet around. why didn't they just make the duch half zipped a full zipped hammock?...
2. do you guys think getting an outer layer is worthwhile? Like i said, I'll probably be using a pad. it's a klymit static v, and it's 2.5" thick, which is on the thick side as far as pads go. I've not had much trouble sleeping on it inside a bivy, aside form the noise of rubbing against a balloon whenever i toss/turn. do you think it'll be a huge deal if it's inside a hammock? also, according to people on the internet, it looks like <70F is when bottom insulation starts to become necessary. using a pad. how low do you think an average person can comfortably withstand with an airpad? low 40s maybe?
1. If the Dutch Half-Zipped had a fully zipped bug net, it would be the Chameleon.
2. If you're looking to use a pad, then a double layer will be much easier than fiddling with the pad inside the hammock with you.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
is it reasonable to have hexon 1.0 for the inner and outer layers to keep the weight down, or is it better to have at least one thicker layer that's hexon 1.6?
is it reasonable to have hexon 1.0 for the inner and outer layers to keep the weight down, or is it better to have at least one thicker layer that's hexon 1.6?Two layers of Hexon 1.0 is totally reasonable. It'll be a little heavier than one layer of Hexon 1.6- but not by a whole lot. Plus, if you're using a pad, it'll be easier to manage by slipping it between the layers.
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HandyRandy
05-16-2018, 20:51
The whole point of hammocks with integrated nets that are sewn on one side and zipped on the other (and there are other brands out there) is to save weight and money. It’s a great option with obvious trade offs. If you only exit from one side all the time and don’t need the opposite end accessible to cook breakfast or adjust your UQ, and don’t plan on switching out tops, then you should get a half zipped hammock.
spectastic
05-17-2018, 13:14
alright.. I ordered a parachute double hammock for $20, just to see what hanging is like, and keep it around for casual picnic days. If it all works out, and I'm a right lay person, then I'll order a double layer half-zip for future trips, which might not be for a while. I'll also order some 5x9 feet nylon fabric to turn into a rainfly, which should be pretty cheap, compared some of the other stuff people have. it might be on the small side though.
thanks for everyone's help so far, setting me on the right path :thumbup1:
could the light weight rain fly material double up as a ground cloth, in case the hammock has to turn into a bivy? I figure it won't be nearly as strong, but at least it'll protect the hammock, right?
but HH is recommended up to 6' tall people, as you are just a little above the limit
The Hennessy Explorer that he mentioned is for people up to 7'. I have one and it is much more comfortable than the Expedition (for people up to 6'). That being said, I would rate them El Dorado, Explorer, Skeeter Beater (Not bad for the money but you'll just buy a better hammock).
spectastic
05-20-2018, 20:50
I tried out my cheap parachute hammock that arrived in the mail today, just to see what it's like to hang. It's a double hammock that's 11' long, and plenty wide, which I figured would let me do the 30 deg lay to see what it's like in either direction. that said, there were no tieouts, no ridgeline, totally symmetrical cut. I realize the quality would not be the same as a good hammock, but here are my observations.
even though i tied the hammock with not a lot of slack, there was a fair bit of stretch, and no matter how I laid, I could feel my shoulders being compressed.
maybe it's because the hammock stretched more? I mean the material is rated for 400 lbs, so I'm assuming it's less elastic. but no matter what my position was in, I felt like a mummy.
the hammock was built wide, but that didn't help much, as there wasn't any tie outs, and the two sides were flopping around in the wind or completely enclosing me inside by meeting each other at the top
overall, I was just testing things out, and had no intent to fall asleep. I'd have to try it some more, but based on these descriptions, how much better would a good quality hammock be?
PS. for reference, this is what I ordered. https://www.amazon.com/Cutequeen-TRADING-Parachute-Hammock-Camouflage/dp/B01LN52QM0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526867505&sr=8-1&keywords=Cutequeen+Double+Nest+Parachute
HandyRandy
05-21-2018, 01:22
I tried out my cheap parachute hammock that arrived in the mail today, just to see what it's like to hang. It's a double hammock that's 11' long, and plenty wide, which I figured would let me do the 30 deg lay to see what it's like in either direction. that said, there were no tieouts, no ridgeline, totally symmetrical cut. I realize the quality would not be the same as a good hammock, but here are my observations.
even though i tied the hammock with not a lot of slack, there was a fair bit of stretch, and no matter how I laid, I could feel my shoulders being compressed.
maybe it's because the hammock stretched more? I mean the material is rated for 400 lbs, so I'm assuming it's less elastic. but no matter what my position was in, I felt like a mummy.
the hammock was built wide, but that didn't help much, as there wasn't any tie outs, and the two sides were flopping around in the wind or completely enclosing me inside by meeting each other at the top
overall, I was just testing things out, and had no intent to fall asleep. I'd have to try it some more, but based on these descriptions, how much better would a good quality hammock be?
PS. for reference, this is what I ordered. https://www.amazon.com/Cutequeen-TRADING-Parachute-Hammock-Camouflage/dp/B01LN52QM0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526867505&sr=8-1&keywords=Cutequeen+Double+Nest+Parachute
79” is WAY too wide for a hammock and if you got the small model, 57” by 110” is a tad narrow for 6’1” and way too short for most adults. You’re always aiming for a comfortable chair height off the ground for ease of entry and exit and for lounging sideways. Without a ridgeline, you’ll need to spend a lot more time practicing hanging to get as good of a hang. A longer ridgeline is going to have less sag and it will kick you into a straighter lay and add shoulder squeeze. A shorter ridgeline is going to require much higher placement of your straps on the tree to get that comfortable chair height. You need to find a happy medium.
Most preferred hammock fabrics have a ripstop grid for extra support and this one is a taffeta which does not. That might be why it’s stretchier.
spectastic
05-21-2018, 01:30
79” is WAY too wide for a hammock and if you got the small model, 57” by 110” is a tad narrow for 6’1” and way too short for most adults. You’re always aiming for a comfortable chair height off the ground for ease of entry and exit and for lounging sideways. Without a ridgeline, you’ll need to spend a lot more time practicing hanging to get as good of a hang. A longer ridgeline is going to have less sag and it will kick you into a straighter lay and add shoulder squeeze. A shorter ridgeline is going to require much higher placement of your straps on the tree to get that comfortable chair height. You need to find a happy medium.
Most preferred hammock fabrics have a ripstop grid for extra support and this one is a taffeta which does not. That might be why it’s stretchier.
just saw a couple of videos on ridgelines. and I may have confused the stretchiness of the material with how tight it felt. I was trying to go for a horizontal position by increasing the tension of my suspension. and I know now how that led to a tight squeeze. i'm definitely going to make a ridgeline for the hammock, and do another test.
also, I didn't realize a hammock can be too wide? I thought wider = better. but I got the larger 130" x 79" version, which is really heavy too (3 lbs after the suspension straps). what does it mean if it's too wide? is that why the sides were flopping in the wind, and enveloping me inside, like a cocoon? maybe the thing is better served for base jumping :D
HandyRandy
05-21-2018, 01:55
just saw a couple of videos on ridgelines. and I may have confused the stretchiness of the material with how tight it felt. I was trying to go for a horizontal position by increasing the tension of my suspension. and I know now how that led to a tight squeeze. i'm definitely going to make a ridgeline for the hammock, and do another test.
also, I didn't realize a hammock can be too wide? I thought wider = better. but I got the larger 130" x 79" version, which is really heavy too (3 lbs after the suspension straps). what does it mean if it's too wide? is that why the sides were flopping in the wind, and enveloping me inside, like a cocoon? maybe the thing is better served for base jumping [emoji3]
The only reason you might want 79” wide is if you are sleeping more than one person in it. But everyone here will tell you it’s pretty uncomfortable to sleep like that and you should get two hammocks and maybe bunk them on top of each other if you need to be close to each other. Even better than that is two hammocks at the same height on the same trees with a spreader bar at the head end. It actually works! I believe you both need to lay the same direction though.
Most people don’t like any wider than a 70” and often 65” is plenty wide. 58-60” is standard. One reason is that’s the width of most popular fabrics, but it is coincidentally a great width too. What you need to realize is that in order to take advantage of a super wide hammock, you need a lot of sag or else it just becomes useless sidewall material. That means steeper suspension to get that chair height. Which will require you to pitch your tarp higher to clear the straps. Which will make you more susceptible to wind driven rain if you don’t have a wide tarp with doors. This is where 90° hammocks chime in. But they have their own set of issues like some require a pad and a specialized tarp and are tippy. Bridge hammocks are an option, but require spreader bars and a bigger tree span and sometimes require tarp pullouts.
The 30° strap angle is just a guideline, don’t worry too much about precision. A comfortable sag, chair height, and tarp height is what you should spend most of your tweaking time on. The important note here is that a nearly horizontal suspension puts way more strain on the gear and the trees and should be avoided. If it feels really tight as you’re about to get in and your straps are leveling out, stop and let some slack out. A deeper or steeper suspension is less of an concern. But the steeper it is, the less likely you’ll be able to reach up where the straps need to cinch around the tree if the trees are further apart from each other than 15ish feet.
ccolclou
05-21-2018, 08:49
Yeah, I had the same problem when I originally tried a cheap parachute hammock also :-) Personally, I don't know that I really get rid of the shoulder squeeze completely, but other hammocks are NOWHERE near as "squeezy-mummy". That's partially due to the width, partially due to the panels, and partially due to the fabric stretchiness; I also find a pad to help with this (again, I seem to be a minority here with that opinion!). For what it's worth, the most comfortable hammock I have used was the https://www.hammockbliss.com/sky-bed; I don't use it any more due to durability and because so many of my trips are backpacking, and weight is a priority - but I still have fond memories of how comfortable it was!
spectastic
05-27-2018, 19:41
did some more lounging in the parachute hammock today. rigged up a ridgeline this time, using the 85% guideline i found in some other video. and it was awesome, waaaayyy better than if i were on the ground. body didnt feel squeezed nearly as much as last time, thanks to the extra slack. randy is right that the hammock is too wide. i was pretty sprawled out, and there was still wrinkles of excess material under me.
so i went on warbonnet and got me a eldorado double layer. :D. they're on sale for memorial day btw. got the buckle/straps because it's easy. i hope they can send it to me early enough for this camping thing next week.
i know the xlc is kind of famous for its storage area, but can't you easily tie the stuff sack on the ridgeline inside the eldorado? there's probably less space, but still.
illogicallyovercome
06-05-2018, 14:41
This has been a great read. Thanks to all who have contributed! I too am thinking of upgrading to a true camping hammock and this thread has given me a ton to think about!