LLG Operator 50F vs Recon 60F Pack Size

[bigbenny]

Hi Everybody,

I'm trying to decide between a 50F Operator Series quilt set or a 60F Recon series quilt set. If I had the money and closet space I'd buy both :)

My biggest problem is pack size, so that's the most important attribute to me.

Can anyone share photos or details to compare the pack size of the Top Quilts and Under Quilts?
I want to know how much smaller does a 60F Recon series Ghost Pepper top quilt pack than a 50F Operator series?
And how much smaller does a 60F Recon series Habanero underquilt pack than a 50F Operator series?

I'm deciding between getting the Recon 60F for extra space savings vs the 50F set for wider temperature range.
I currently have a WB 0F Wooki underquilt and a 20F Operator Series Ghost Pepper. These are way overkill for the Aussie summer.

Aussie Summer
The minimum temperature in most of Australia in summer is 12-15'C (53-59'F) or higher. But its often higher, like 18'C (64'F).
This is probably when I'll do the most camping and here I think the 60'F Recon could be worth it for the pack-savings.
I live in Sydney NSW, which is the bottom right state below Queensland and above Melbourne (the smaller island is Tasmania).
A lot of my camping is weekend trips in the Sydney region, but I would like to travel more, and I'm planning some trips.
http://www.bom.gov.au/web03/ncc/www/awap/temperature/minave/3month/colour/history/nat/2018120120190228.gif


Aussie Spring and Autumn
The minimum temperature in most of Australia in spring and autumn is about 9-12'C (48-53'F) or higher.
Here I'm thinking the 50'F Operator series set makes more sense than a 60'F Recon.
http://www.bom.gov.au/web03/ncc/www/awap/temperature/minave/3month/colour/history/nat/2019090120191130.gif
http://www.bom.gov.au/web03/ncc/www/awap/temperature/minave/3month/colour/history/nat/2019030120190531.gif

Aussie Winter
For completeness sake here is winter, the minimum temperature is generally 3-6'C (37-43'F) or higher where I'd use my 20'F TQ /0'F UQ instead.
Later I plan to get a 40'F quilt set as my 0'F UQ is still overkill.
http://www.bom.gov.au/web03/ncc/www/awap/temperature/minave/3month/colour/history/nat/2019060120190831.gif

Thanks everybody.

P.S. Here's attachments of the same images in case the images above don't work.
Summer 178627 Spring 178629 Autumn 178628 Winter 178630

[cmc4free]

I can't compare to the Recon series, but the stuff sack in the middle contains both the Operator Series UQ & TQ. The TQ is 75" long, standard width. You can see how the packed size of both in one sack compares to a 1L bottle. It could compress a little smaller - it's just filling the volume of the stuff sack.

Combined weight in one sack is 18.8oz although the TQ has lighter 7d fabric inside and outside, which isn't currently listed as an option.

https://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/7/8/1/0/1/img_20191028_183322-1632x1224.jpg

https://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/7/8/1/0/1/img_20191028_183423-1632x1224.jpg

[bigbenny]

That’s a great comparison shot, thank you.

So the stuff sack on the left is something else?

Do you think the 7D vs 10D would make any significant difference in pack volume?

Thanks!

[bigbenny]

Hi ya'll, I couldn't wait any longer and based on the advice here and other posts, plus from emails with George, I pulled the trigger on a set of Operator 50F top and under quilts. I was tempted to go the 60F Recons as then later I could get a 40F set of quilts that would be equidistant to a 20F set (if/when I get a 20F UQ).

George said the Recons don't pack down much smaller than the Operators.

I'd still be interested to see a comparison photo of the Operator 50F vs the Recon 60F TQ and UQs if someone has both versions.

When these arrive I'll have a 0F Wooki UQ, a 20F Operator TQ, and this 50F Operator TQ/UQ set. I'm looking forward to having these much more compact (and lighter) options.

[cmc4free]

That’s a great comparison shot, thank you.

So the stuff sack on the left is something else?

Do you think the 7D vs 10D would make any significant difference in pack volume?

Thanks!

The sack on the left is a 40° set of Hammock Gear premium Phoenix and Enlightened Equipment Enigma. Both 950FP and again the UQ is 10d fabric while the TQ is 7d.

[bigbenny]

Thanks, good to see the size comparisons.

[cmoulder]

The sack on the left is a 40° set of Hammock Gear premium Phoenix and Enlightened Equipment Enigma. Both 950FP and again the UQ is 10d fabric while the TQ is 7d.


Thanks, good to see the size comparisons.

Hi Bigbenny,

I don't know how critical pack space and weight are for you, but my experience is that two premium (10D or 7D shell, high FP down) 40°F/4.5°C quilts (TQ +partial UQ) compress easily enough in a roll-top stuff sack to fit into the bottom of a 36 liter pack with gobs of room to spare. Quilts with this rating will obviously extend the temperature range and yet will not be too warm on the hottest nights by simply pulling them out of the way, and they still—in all but a few rare cases... say adventure racing, FKT etc—are not going to bust your budget for weight/space. I've done 3-4 night trips with quilts like this in a 36 liter pack and I'm just some bloke.

BUT, maybe you are a specialist doing big miles or edgy adventures with a 22 liter pack, in which case those specialist, minimalist quilts are just the ticket. I've not owned any of those but I have seen someone else's Operator quilts and they really appear to be top notch.

[cmc4free]

Hi Bigbenny,

I don't know how critical pack space and weight are for you, but my experience is that two premium (10D or 7D shell, high FP down) 40°F/4.5°C quilts (TQ +partial UQ) compress easily enough in a roll-top stuff sack to fit into the bottom of a 36 liter pack with gobs of room to spare. Quilts with this rating will obviously extend the temperature range and yet will not be too warm on the hottest nights by simply pulling them out of the way, and they still—in all but a few rare cases... say adventure racing, FKT etc—are not going to bust your budget for weight/space. I've done 3-4 night trips with quilts like this in a 36 liter pack and I'm just some bloke.

BUT, maybe you are a specialist doing big miles or edgy adventures with a 22 liter pack, in which case those specialist, minimalist quilts are just the ticket. I've not owned any of those but I have seen someone else's Operator quilts and they really appear to be top notch.

I agree. Despite the size/weight difference, if I had to choose between the 40° HG/EE set and the 50° LLG Operator set, I would choose the 40° set. FWIW, the HG/EE 40° set weighs 25.3oz in one stuff sack, compared to 18.8oz for the Operators.

https://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/7/8/1/0/1/img_20191028_183456-1632x1224.jpg

[bigbenny]

I’m just a noob. I have a 45L cheap pack and the 0F wooki and 20F operator TQ are taking about 18L.

I can fit all my gear and food etc but it’s a right fit. Since the 0/20F is overkill I’m trying to solve that problem.


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[cmc4free]

I’m just a noob. I have a 45L cheap pack and the 0F wooki and 20F operator TQ are taking about 18L.

I can fit all my gear and food etc but it’s a right fit. Since the 0/20F is overkill I’m trying to solve that problem.


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It's all good. You won't be disappointed with the Operators. If you find the lack of secondary suspension on the UQ to be a problem, post again and we can provide some tips.

There's a good part of the year for me in the central US (aka "the Midwest") where the 50° set is plenty, and the very light weight and minimal pack volume is handy. That's when I can get away with using my sub 12oz 36L frameless pack comfortably.

[cmoulder]

I’m just a noob. I have a 45L cheap pack and the 0F wooki and 20F operator TQ are taking about 18L.

I can fit all my gear and food etc but it’s a right fit. Since the 0/20F is overkill I’m trying to solve that problem.


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No worries... either way, you're going to find these far more compact than the 0/20 set.

[bigbenny]

Thanks for the additional photo.

I was thinking if I got the 60Fs now, and then 40Fs later, so I’d eventually have 0, 20, 40, 60F and take what’s best suited. I bought the 50F though. It should be suitable for 3 seasons in my local area, for weekend trips, so hopefully it’s the ideal rating for my climate and use.

Thanks, I’ll see how I go with it. It will be my first partial underquilt, total opposite of the wooki. I’ve read because it’s light it stays put, stays sealed, and doesn’t banana. So hopefully the lack of secondary suspension works for me. Otherwise, I’ll be reading and posting here for some help.


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[Dublinlin]

...

I was thinking if I got the 60Fs now, and then 40Fs later, so I’d eventually have 0, 20, 40, 60F and take what’s best suited. I bought the 50F though. It should be suitable for 3 seasons in my local area, for weekend trips, so hopefully it’s the ideal rating for my climate and use.

...
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I think you made the best choice going with the 50 degree Operator Series. I have both the OS 50 TQ and UQ. I use the TQ year round. Love that thing. On warmer nights I just open the drawstring bottom to vent it, or unsnap the footbox altogether and just use it as a light throw to pull over me if I get a bit cool or kick aside if I’m hot. I can’t imagine needing anything lighter and the versatility of having coverage for 10 degrees warmer when needed would make me choose it over a 60 degree every time.

The OS 50 TQ packs up so small that I always take it, even on cold weather trips when I’m bringing one of my warmer rated TQs. I layer the OS 50 inside my winter TQ at the beginning of the night when I’m cold, throw it aside if I get too warm...or toss the heavier quilt aside and just keep the light one. Bringing it along as an extra quilt in the winter is my luxury item to pack. I love having it, summer, fall, winter, spring!

[bigbenny]

My 50’F bags arrived a while ago and I’m really happy with them. I’ve tested them indoors and I’m still waiting to test them outdoors.

Together they both pack into a 8L dry bag.
Compared to my 20’F TQ and wookie 0’F UQ which struggled to squeeze into a IIRC a 20L dry bag.

So it’s great space savings.

[cmoulder]

Glad to hear you received them! Wishes for many good nights sleeping in the wild. :)

[mad_matze]

You won‘t regret it, those guys are little miracles! Just got back from a trip to Patagonia (https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php/157712-Hammocking-Patagonia).

Temperatures went down to 37F and with some tricks I was ok. The TQ also seems tough for its weight and withstood me using it in overnight busses all the time. Because of the low bulk I didn’t mind them in my pack even at the times we haven’t been camping. Great pieces!

[Hammichael]

@Mad_Matze: Which “tricks” did you use to extend the performance of your Operator quilts down to the mid-30s?


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[mad_matze]

Nothing too fancy actually.
For the topquilt:

-sleeping with some clothes
-taking care to get the quilt hole at your feet closed for good before the night
-migrating some more of the down towards the top (where there is no extra underquilt)
-using a wind shield on the hammock
-in the coldest hours: tucking in your head inside the quilt to make use of your own warm breath. Big difference.
-getting myself one pair of fluffy wool socks
-also possible: going to sleep with a bottle of warm water

For the underquilt:
-MOST IMPORTANTLY: carefully feeling every baffle and distributing the down before each night to avoid cold spots
-using an additional piece of the thinnest evazote I could get (around 5$)
-for the feet: I always use an inflatable sit pad
-what also helped on another trip: using an underquilt protector against convection by the wind

[Hammichael]

Thanks for the tips!


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