View Full Version : Quilt builders answer me this....
I used to be a sail maker for a rather large company. I was in charge of the roller furling jib division but we were located in the buidling where all of the spinnaker work was done so I know nylon a wee bit.
An underquilt has no load on it yet you guys are building it with 1.0 ounce nylon for some reason. We used to make light air spinnakers with .25 ounce nylon. Since it is not subjected to extreme wear, is not under load please tell me why you are building with what we used to use for heavy air spinnakers. 1.2 was for heavy air. 2.2 ounce was a storm spinnaker for higher that 35 knots of breeze.
I would use it If it was a cost effective and readily available, breathable and cost effective. Tell me where and how much a yard and I will look into it, and I would figure everyone else would to, provided it was cost effective. :D
Just Jeff
04-17-2010, 22:01
You can rip 0.8 oz nylon with your fingers, and it's not that hard. Go too much lighter, and the quilt probably wouldn't hold up to being dropped on the ground more than a couple times before it rips and all the down comes out.
You can rip 0.8 oz nylon with your fingers, and it's not that hard. Go too much lighter, and the quilt probably wouldn't hold up to being dropped on the ground more than a couple times before it rips and all the down comes out.
I disagree. We used to haul enormous .25 ounce spinnakers up on 70 foot race boats. Big enough to cover your house. Screw up the takedown and yet they survived. It isn't tissue paper. This stuff has some guts. For hammockers I think if you just showed enough care not to throw them in pricker bushes you can shave ounces in a heartbeat. For a hammock I understand but for quilts with no load I think that UL enthusiasts would want this option. Hell, they line up for Cuben Tarps that will probably last them 20 trips for $200. Why not?
Our main suppliers were Bainbridge Sailcloth and Dimension Sailcloth. They have the goods and always had seconds to try for testing. Contact them for some samples.
Time for me to buy a commecial sewing machine and get back in the game methinks! Those down beanies for $50 come to mind.
Just Jeff
04-17-2010, 22:16
Only one way to find out! They're always creating new fabrics as well...the one I ripped was 0.8 oz taffeta (not ripstop or sil, so either of those would obviously increase the strength a bit). There are already some cuben underquilts out there...can get a bit lighter than that, but not much if you use the lightest weights.
So get in the game and make an underquilt w/ .25 oz! I'll test it for you... :jj:
Ok Jeff! I will find a commercial machine and get back in the game. ****, I need bobbins, battens and long armed staplers now. Sigh. Does it ever end!
Cheers!
PS They make .25 ripstop.
BTW, I am not trying to be a smart*** here. I just find it odd that we have UQs built from the same fabric as hammocks while one is load bearing and the other isn't. All you need in an UQ is the ability to keep the down from flying away right?
Just Jeff
04-17-2010, 22:30
No offense taken...if you can make a lighter quilt that's durable enough to use, even with extra care, then I'm all for it!
So, at .25oz/sqft, you could do a double layer UQ and still cut weight. A double layer on the UQ exterior should give a little more protection against the briars.
So, at .25oz/sqft, you could do a double layer UQ and still cut weight. A double layer on the UQ exterior should give a little more protection against the briars.
Oh crap. You figured out my whole marketing scheme in one email. Dammit!
From all of the usual suppliers, I've never seen anything lighter than 1 oz/sq.yd. offered for sale by the yard. 1.1 is the lightest affordable ripstop that I know of.
I'd definitely try some .25 if it was available, breathable and reasonably priced.
Jerry
questtrek
04-17-2010, 22:51
BTW, I am not trying to be a smart*** here. I just find it odd that we have UQs built from the same fabric as hammocks while one is load bearing and the other isn't. All you need in an UQ is the ability to keep the down from flying away right?
You do that and market a great product that's trusted .. I am all for it! ... Top notch product with great quality and durability is what everyone is looking for and if you can do it with a lighter fabric ... more power to ya ... let's see when your done .. can't wait to see the photos ... of your first! .. I'm sure everyone here on HF ... would love to see too.
Oh crap. You figured out my whole marketing scheme in one email. Dammit!
Some things are easy to imagine. But most people don't have the time, capital, or skill to actually make and idea reality--let alone manufacture. It sounds like you have the right mix and I'll be impatiently waiting for your lighter UQ's.
Albert Skye
04-17-2010, 23:13
We used to make light air spinnakers with .25 ounce nylon. Since it is not subjected to extreme wear, is not under load please tell me why you are building with what we used to use for heavy air spinnakers.
Mont-bell uses 15- and 7-denier fabric (http://montbell.us/products/techinfo/techsys/material/material21.html) on some of their products. I'd like to find a source of that or similar fabric.
In any case, I wonder if you are referring to the strange (because I don't understand how they work) industry weight designations. For example, "0.75 oz" actually weighs 1.1 oz per sailmaker's yard, and 1.4 oz per square yard, according to this article (http://www.kitebuilder.com/techsheets/Fabrictech.htm).
Also, I suspect much of the 1.1 nylon ripstop fabric is inferior to that used for making spinnakers (especially that which comes without specifications from unknown sources).
GrizzlyAdams
04-18-2010, 08:37
Like others I'd be interested in learning more about this micro-light nylon fabric.
I have made a differentially cut under-quilt whose hammock side is made of 0.33 oz/sq yd cuben. Doesn't breath---that's one of the attractions actually---keeps all body moisture out of the down. I'm thinking about making another that is almost all lightweight cuben, except for some strips of breathable nylon to let air in and out. Last year I did some small scale experiments that verify such an approach ought to work, and later I saw this web-page describing an over-quilt that does exactly that.
Ramblinrev
04-18-2010, 09:08
One thing that has not been brought up but is crucial to the manufacturing of down gear is very simple. Is the fabric downproof? In my estimation the ultralight fabric may have more of a problem being downproof than a heavier fabric. The only basis for that statement is my own experience with down gear. I don't know if it is true or not. But you obviously don't want the precious down escaping through a very thin weave regardless of how dense it is. Windproof and downproof are two very different things.
Just Jeff
04-18-2010, 09:16
Good point. One thing I've found is that it's "easier" for a fabric to be downproof with higher quality down. There are fewer quills to poke thru...it's very difficult for a cluster to poke thru fabric b/c there's nothing sharp on it. And if someone's going to pay for a quilt made from expensive fabric, they might as well have the down to go with it.
It also depends on the use. For example, my DownHammock is made from standard 1.9 oz ripstop. I don't think it's technically "downproof" but since the down hangs below it, and I don't put any pressure on the down while I'm sleeping, it doesn't poke thru. (It's also Ed's 900fp...see above.) I'm not sure this same fabric would do that if I made a TQ with it, though. So using non-downproof for an UQ would probably be somewhere in between.
Stuffing it may be an exception to that where some down may poke thru, but I don't remember this happening with the DownHammock.
Ramblinrev
04-18-2010, 09:29
If I remember correctly 1.1 ripstop is considered downproof only if it is calendared. That process tends to seal the weave. I don't know if a lighter weight nylon would act the same.
Just Jeff
04-18-2010, 09:33
I think you're right. I wonder if you could calendar .25 oz.
warbonnetguy
04-18-2010, 10:14
I used to be a sail maker for a rather large company. I was in charge of the roller furling jib division but we were located in the buidling where all of the spinnaker work was done so I know nylon a wee bit.
An underquilt has no load on it yet you guys are building it with 1.0 ounce nylon for some reason. We used to make light air spinnakers with .25 ounce nylon. Since it is not subjected to extreme wear, is not under load please tell me why you are building with what we used to use for heavy air spinnakers. 1.2 was for heavy air. 2.2 ounce was a storm spinnaker for higher that 35 knots of breeze.
i believe the weights you are referring to are a little different that what we're using. those were probably sailmakers yards for one thing, and probably don't include the weight of the coating and treatment. the lightest spinnaker cloth around around i believe (correct me if i'm wrong) is just under 30g/m, (including the finish) which is barely lighter than 1.0 oz/yd. just because it's called .25oz fabric, doesn't mean that's what it actually weighs
Like others I'd be interested in learning more about this micro-light nylon fabric.
I have made a differentially cut under-quilt whose hammock side is made of 0.33 oz/sq yd cuben. Doesn't breath---that's one of the attractions actually---keeps all body moisture out of the down. I'm thinking about making another that is almost all lightweight cuben, except for some strips of breathable nylon to let air in and out. Last year I did some small scale experiments that verify such an approach ought to work, and later I saw this web-page describing an over-quilt that does exactly that.
??????????????????? Never mind; I had so many tabs open I didn't notice another one pop up when I clicked on the link. At least, I think that's what happened.
I have made a light, UQ ,about 13 oz I believe ,out of a nanatuk down bag. Removed the foot box and put stretchy stuff all around. then I sewed the .33 cuben on the bottom of the Nanatuk. that adds only .7 oz, and makes a good weather/splash/spindrift shield. works like the one Grizz is talking about, except my cuben is not on the hammock side.(for the weather protection.) no reason why the double cuben quilt would not work as long as you have some way to let it breathe.gnome
ikemouser
04-26-2010, 20:47
I plan on making cuben uq and tq to shave off alot of weight. I do not think it would work good in a hammock because if you get in with sand on your but, rub around enough, you will rub a hole in the cuben, at least thats what i think since working with some. I dont think tears would be your enemy, instead, i think daily abrasion from velcro, buckles, zippers, and grit would do a cuben hammock in.