View Full Version : Nacrabiners
sclittlefield
04-26-2010, 20:07
Hey Opie - any chance you'll start offering Nacrabiners for sale?
Ive been thinking about it.
I am planning on offering them in the 1.75 with the Tarp Ridge Lines.... Just a matter of free time to get a system refined.
As for offering them in the 7/64..... Im still up in the air about it. Ultimately Ill say yes.... But that development may come later than sooner. Perhaps Ill have the smaller ones up by this weekend.
OK... I got some knot education this weekend.. So I believe Im going to start offering these.
Interest?
Cannibal
06-13-2010, 22:09
Interest?
I'd buy a couple of sets for sure. :cool:
Heres the version Im working on. I wanted to have it be a single line rather than having 2 legs so that worrying about the legs being unevenly weighted wouldnt be an issue.
Thanks to Red for guiding me to several different stoppers. I still need to test this stopper to make sure it holds up.... But for now... Pay no mind to the frayed strands sticking out of the line... Still working on production lengths.
Weight as configured is 5 grams and length is 6" end to end, inside.
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1010525.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1010524.jpg
Preliminary test hang was successful. 280# straight down and the stopper didnt budge.
Ill see about getting some more weight on it tomorrow.
Id also like to see if I can get the weight down to 3 or 4 grams. Its bigger than it needs to be right now.. I think a 3 or 4" finished end to end length would be much better.
Also... after loading unlocking it was just as easy as before I loaded it.
lonetracker
06-13-2010, 22:53
looks good opie,must have been some seious not tying going on for you to get some education.i need some to.how does it work?do you milk the bury to 'lock' it?then slide the bury back to release?i am lost,but have no more zing it or lash it left anyway.and i allready have more tie out lines endless loops nacra prusics pentherburys...then i need.so i really do not need to know.maybe just a hint:D
bill
Yes, slide the bury back to release, milk it down to lock.. Very simple.
GrizzlyAdams
06-14-2010, 08:32
Hi opie--
this discussion makes it sound like that loop is adjustable. But for that you need a tail, and the only tail possibility that is visible is the end with the stopper knot, but I don't see it coming out of the side or end of the bury line.
??
Hi opie--
this discussion makes it sound like that loop is adjustable. But for that you need a tail, and the only tail possibility that is visible is the end with the stopper knot, but I don't see it coming out of the side or end of the bury line.
??
Grizz, it is not adjustable. Think of a long backslipce without actually pulling it all the way in.
I suppose you could make the of the loop adjustable by having 2
stopper knots. But this places a knot in the shackle.
TiredFeet
06-14-2010, 10:53
Opie - you can still use a Diamond/Lanyard knot with the single line.
It will look a little funny with a small loop coming out where your tail is now and a second short tail coming out where you enter the knot.
The advantage of the Diamond/Lanyard knot is that it was been pretty well tested already.
Opie - you can still use a Diamond/Lanyard knot with the single line.
It will look a little funny with a small loop coming out where your tail is now and a second short tail coming out where you enter the knot.
The advantage of the Diamond/Lanyard knot is that it was been pretty well tested already.
No, I don't think you can. The carrick(sp) bend requires 2 seperate lines.
I'm working with some stoppers that are specific to being used with SK 75 cord.
No, I don't think you can. The carrick(sp) bend requires 2 seperate lines.
I'm working with some stoppers that are specific to being used with SK 75 cord.
opie, I think you actually can. It might help to picture the usual 'tail' pieces as segments of a small loop that got cut in the middle, then envision one of the two (usually) load bearing segments cut off near the knot.
How to actually *tie* it, OTOH... :confused::laugh:
opie, I think you actually can. It might help to picture the usual 'tail' pieces as segments of a small loop that got cut in the middle, then envision one of the two (usually) load bearing segments cut off near the knot.
How to actually *tie* it, OTOH... :confused::laugh:
I had a smart a** comment for you.. but figured Id better not.:lol:
I get the tail pieces being a small loop, but how would you individually run the same loop opposite directions around the 2 "standing" parts of the line at the same time?
And how would you start a carrick(sp?) bend with a single strand of line? I made this by essentially starting with 40" of line. Then buried enough of the line to almost bury half of my starting length. Leaving enough tail to run a backsplice. Its almost just like 2 backsplices. The long one you dont bury the end so you can make the lock. The short one meets the long one in the at the opposite end of the line. I also locked the long one using a brummel right at the area I tie the stopper knot so the brummel is buried in the middle of the stopper.
The stoppers, Im trying 2, are the Stevedores (double 8) and the Blood knot. They are very simple and perfect if you want to have a single strand of line. Takes a fraction of the time to tie than the diamond knot. I like the way the blood knot looks dressed out. The stevedores is the one I used in the example I have pictured.
I had a smart a** comment for you.. but figured Id better not.:lol:
<chuckle> You're a wiser man than I! :laugh:
Sorry for the diversion, opie -- it's just an intellectual (?!) exercise on my part. I like what you do! :D
I get the tail pieces being a small loop, but how would you individually run the same loop opposite directions around the 2 "standing" parts of the line at the same time?Short answer -- beats me! :lol:
Actually, I cheated and found a brute force solution, thanks to the (anti?)symmetry of the knot. Start with a length of line and tie the ends in the usual way, as if you were making a lanyard. Before dressing the knot, though, start walking the main loop through the knot, successively pulling the main loop through until the last piece you pull on is one of the tails. Finally, dress and tighten the knot so that all slack is moved to the long "tail" and you have a diamond knot on the end of the line. It's not exactly how I'd envisioned it happening originally but I think the result is topologically identical.
You actually do a lot more than I was thinking about -- I was just thinking of the one piece of the puzzle. Also, the other knots you were talking about might be better... and "blood knot" has a certain panache to it. :laugh:
Cheers!
<chuckle> You're a wiser man than I! :laugh:
Not so sure about that!!!
Sorry for the diversion, opie -- it's just an intellectual (?!) exercise on my part. I like what you do! :D
Short answer -- beats me! :lol:
No diversion... I welcome the creativity and ingenuity.
Actually, I cheated and found a brute force solution, thanks to the (anti?)symmetry of the knot. Start with a length of line and tie the ends in the usual way, as if you were making a lanyard. Before dressing the knot, though, start walking the main loop through the knot, successively pulling the main loop through until the last piece you pull on is one of the tails. Finally, dress and tighten the knot so that all slack is moved to the long "tail" and you have a diamond knot on the end of the line. It's not exactly how I'd envisioned it happening originally but I think the result is topologically identical.
See now you went and lost me.
You actually do a lot more than I was thinking about -- I was just thinking of the one piece of the puzzle. Also, the other knots you were talking about might be better... and "blood knot" has a certain panache to it. :laugh:
Cheers!
Especially if you know the history of the blood knot. I gotta give props to Red, though. For sending me the link to the knots Im trying. I told him at the hang what I was wanting to do and he hooked me up.
how does the loop tighten on the stopper knot?
how does the loop tighten on the stopper knot?
By milking the bury down towards the stopper.
ikemouser
06-15-2010, 12:03
i would think you would get a more even distribution of force across the two seperate lines that form the stopper by using opies method of splicing them into themselves. \
I plan on making some like this in amsteel to connect my straps to my slings.
For the record... all Ive done is copy this... Minus the rubber o-ring and a different stopper.
wHc6J4VPYtw
TiredFeet
06-15-2010, 19:33
No, I don't think you can. The carrick(sp) bend requires 2 seperate lines.
Sure you can, I do it all the time.
Just think of tying the diamond knot for the nacrabiner. Single line doubled over giving 2 lines.
For what you are doing, the usually large loop of the nacrabiner is very small (an inch or less) and not used.
Sure you can, I do it all the time.
Just think of tying the diamond knot for the nacrabiner. Single line doubled over giving 2 lines.
For what you are doing, the usually large loop of the nacrabiner is very small (an inch or less) and not used.
Im not seeing it.
2 seperate lines is how a carrick bend is tied. If someone wants to show me how to tie a diamond knot using 1 line... Im all eyes!!
EDIT: Wait.. I think it just hit me.
OK... Update time.
So I tested the prototype... I dont have access to the machine Ive used in the past, but what I did have access to is a JD 4x4 gator and a JD850 tractor.
So I set the brake on the tractor and put it in gear. Then I hooked the gator to the tractor using a chain with the shackle being used as a link between the chain and the hitch on the gator. I successfully pulled the tractor all over the inside of the building it was parked in. I did have to put the gator in 4 wheel drive in order to do it.
So with that, static load test done, it was time for a dynamic test. So I let the tension off and then gave it about another foot of slack... then I hit it with all the gator had... and it failed. Failed inside the blood knot. The blood knot itself didnt budge, slip or otherwise show any indications that it moved.
I have slimmed my original down to this.....
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1010557.jpg
Just over 3" end to end and weighing in at 4 grams.
Ill be giving this a hanging test this weekend while Im in Da UP.
For those of you that got a little confused like me...
Blood Knot (ABOK #516) = Double Overhand Knot
For those of you that got a little confused like me...
Blood Knot (ABOK #516) = Double Overhand Knot
This is not a double overhand knot. I know ABOK sometimes references it as a double overhand.. but it looks nothing like a double overhand based on the diagrams of a DOH I have seen.
Its also called a Barrel knot.
And here it gets confusing..
Someone is calling this..
http://killroys.com/knot/barrel-knot-or-blood-knot/
a barrel or blood knot.
Then there is this blood knot...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_knot
What Im using is the last knot in this vid..
http://www.ehow.com/video_2358850_tie-stop-knots-sailing-lessons.html
wetware1967
06-19-2010, 09:37
opie,
The other knots you just referenced are what I've always known as blood/barrel knots.
Based on the vid showing the knot you're using, it looks like a triple overhand stopper knot. The way he goes about tying it is a little different, but the hitches/end result are identical.
opie,
The other knots you just referenced are what I've always known as blood/barrel knots.
Based on the vid showing the knot you're using, it looks like a triple overhand stopper knot. The way he goes about tying it is a little different, but the hitches/end result are identical.
Interesting. I know on an overhand knot there is a length of line running outside the knot itself. In this, there is no such line. Everything is inside the knot. I can see why it could be called a barrel knot.
oldgringo
06-20-2010, 07:05
OK... Update time.
So I tested the prototype... I dont have access to the machine Ive used in the past, but what I did have access to is a JD 4x4 gator and a JD850 tractor.
So I set the brake on the tractor and put it in gear. Then I hooked the gator to the tractor using a chain with the shackle being used as a link between the chain and the hitch on the gator. I successfully pulled the tractor all over the inside of the building it was parked in. I did have to put the gator in 4 wheel drive in order to do it.
So with that, static load test done, it was time for a dynamic test. So I let the tension off and then gave it about another foot of slack... then I hit it with all the gator had... and it failed. Failed inside the blood knot. The blood knot itself didnt budge, slip or otherwise show any indications that it moved.
I have slimmed my original down to this.....
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1010557.jpg
Just over 3" end to end and weighing in at 4 grams.
Ill be giving this a hanging test this weekend while Im in Da UP.
That's a pretty tough test. What end use do you envision that would require a knot that would hold up to that?
That's a pretty tough test. What end use do you envision that would require a knot that would hold up to that?
Just seeing what it can take.
I had success with them last night as well. I had the camera rolling as I sat down using them for the first time and was in the hammock all night using them as a link between my fixed eye and the other end over a toggle.
Pics and vid when I return home this evening... or possibly tomorrow.
Heres a pic of one after a full nite sleep.....
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1010572.jpg
jeffjenn
06-22-2010, 14:23
Hey Opie might there be a pictorial in the making for these???;);)
I, too, hope the OPIE continues with his pictorials.
Tom
Im sure there will be in the near future.
I have added these to the store.
The ultimate ultralight soft shackle...
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/SS/P1010643.jpg
Well, the MIL, who we ask to stay at the house and watch the dog while we are gone, is staying the night. That means I lose my spot in the bed and HAVE to sleep in the hammock.:eek:
So Im going to be using these same soft shackles I used up in Escanaba as biners to my eyelets on my posts.
Here they are after 2 full nites on them. The knot has set up nicely....
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/SS/P1010666.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/SS/P1010665.jpg
SmokeBait
06-29-2010, 18:12
Opie, was wondering how these were going to do for you. 2 nights without falling on your backsides :eek: makes them good to go for me. Another item to add to your web store...:)
Here they are after 2 full nites on them. The knot has set up nicely....
Opie, was wondering how these were going to do for you. 2 nights without falling on your backsides :eek: makes them good to go for me. Another item to add to your web store...:)
Im going to pull some apart hopefully this weekend.
Looks real good, opie. I like the nice flat 'shoulder' that knot gets.
jeffjenn
06-29-2010, 22:44
Opie did the pink slip just a little, or was the loop a little larger than the black to start with?
Here they are after 2 full nites on them. The knot has set up nicely....
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/SS/P1010665.jpg
jeff, the bury isnt milked down all the way. Thats why the loop is open like it is. I wanted to see if the knot had slipped past the point of the end of the bury so I tried to see if I could pull it out and just didnt milk the bury all the way back down.
teletrekker
09-25-2010, 18:33
Opie- What did you use for an overall length of amsteel? How long is the bury?
By the way, love the straps and amsteel. Thanks for the advice.
teletrekker
09-25-2010, 18:36
Also.....Has anyone made this style of nacrabiner with zing-it. Would be used for non-load bearing applictions (tarps etc)? Any thoughts?
Redoleary
09-26-2010, 07:23
Yeah, there's an app for that. :) The only one I've made, I made with zing it, and it works as advertised, I would highly recommend them for your non-load bearing apps.
gargoyle
09-26-2010, 07:49
TT, both of your answers can found in the forum.
Yes, zing it works for nacrabiners. Opie has a tutorial on them. He uses them on some of the continous ridglelines that Whoopies dot com has for sale. They work as a sliding prussik and the nacra option allows you to "clip" on your tarp, so to speak.
Once you follow his tutorial, you can play with the dimensions/math and make the N-biners any size. I've built some longer loops and they work the same.
teletrekker
09-26-2010, 08:20
Thanks guys. I'll play with it.