make your own sil.

[warbonnetguy]

i decided to see if i could make my own sil nylon out of breathable 1.1.

i decide to soak it on, thinking i could get a much more consistent coating than with a brush, and also thinking i could make it alot thinner and it might soak in to the interior fibers better making it more like impregnated than coated, and that maybe it wouldn't wear off like a coating might.

i mixed mineral spirits and silicone to get something thin enough to soak the fabric in, soaked one, thinned further, soaked another, thinned again, soaked a third.

i gave all three the shower head test, the first one, the thickest mix (#1) seemed the best, it was also apparent that any excess should have been wiped off before it dried, seems like it will not drip off unless it's too thin.

the first test was done with 6" squares, so then i cut out an exact sq. yd, weighed it at 1.1/32g, i eyeballed a larger mix that looked like the first one, soaked, wrung out, and wiped both sides as dry as i could and let it dry over night.

results are good, weighs exactly 1.3/38g, and seems to do about as well or at least close to sil on the shower head test, i'm thinking if it would have been a tarp, i would have set it up tight, to fully stretch it, then wipe it down, this may allow mix to penetrate deeper and better into the inside of the fabric better, worked suprisingly well the way i did it though.

can't say about durability, did seem like i got most of the sil off the surface already though by wiping it down.

don't know when i'll make a whole tarp, i just wondered about it awhile ago, and i happened to have the silicone out yesterday, sorry i don't have any exact mix ratios, i couldn't find anything to measure with but my kitchen stuff, so i just eyeballed it all. it was runny, but still had a little thickness left, and was pretty cloudy looking at an inch deep, but pretty clear at a half inch or so.(as i remember it)

i know sil is hard to find in many colors, so this may be an option, especially if you want exact color matches.

don't know about tear strength, sil has a higher tear strength than breathable 1.9, so i don't know about this stuff.

i also don't know how factory impregnation is done or if this is similar or not, i just know impregnation is present on the interior of the fabric as this seems to be as well.

maybe somebody has already tried this and knows more about long term use.

Brandon

[slowhike]

good test. it would be great if you could come up w/ some kind of double roller, about 6' wide to run it through or pull it through & squeeze the excess away.

[warbonnetguy]

yeah, that would be better than wringing it out, wiping it down with a dry sponge or something would still probably be necessary though, depending on how well the rollers worked i guess.

maybe once you get it strung up tight and wet, you could use a squeegee.



good test. it would be great if you could come up w/ some kind of double roller, about 6' wide to run it through or pull it through & squeeze the excess away.

[alex30808]

another way to impregnate is to use vaccume...I impregnate some of the woods I use in my turkey calls and have had some "fun" with different items...such as marshmellows...ever seen one the size of a coffee can? LOL....anyway...you could do the same thing with the fabric...this would insure even and thourough impregnation. I also would suggest the tight pull and rag/sponge for removal of excess.

[warbonnetguy]

cool, a vaccume, maybe that's how they do a factory impregnation. what did you impregnate the wood with?



another way to impregnate is to use vaccume...I impregnate some of the woods I use in my turkey calls and have had some "fun" with different items...such as marshmellows...ever seen one the size of a coffee can? LOL....anyway...you could do the same thing with the fabric...this would insure even and thourough impregnation. I also would suggest the tight pull and rag/sponge for removal of excess.

[GREEN THERAPY]

Warbonnet

Did you use the clear silicone sealer that comes in tubes from a building suppy? I have been thinking of trying it but have not gotten around to it yet.

[warbonnetguy]

yeah, 100% clear silicone.


Warbonnet

Did you use the clear silicone sealer that comes in tubes from a building suppy? I have been thinking of trying it but have not gotten around to it yet.

[GREEN THERAPY]

yeah, 100% clear silicone.

I was thinking of trying tolulene as a thinner due to my theory that being very volitle it would evaporate off quickly and just leave the silicone film on the fabric. The fumes would not be good to breath in I admit, so well ventilated would be a must and no sparks or open flames to be sure.

[warbonnetguy]

ok, careful with that:), the min spirits dried overnite.

it didn't mix as easily as i thought it would though, i only mixed a couple cups, but it took alot of stirring and swirling to get a consistent mix. did eventually get consistent though. maybe some thinners work better at this. i can see trying dissolve a whole tube being a PITA though.



I was thinking of trying tolulene as a thinner due to my theory that being very volitle it would evaporate off quickly and just leave the silicone film on the fabric. The fumes would not be good to breath in I admit, so well ventilated would be a must and no sparks or open flames to be sure.

[pure_mahem]

If you knew the proportions of the mix you could buy an empty paint can at home depot mix the stuff in the parking lot and have them shake it for like 15 minutes that would probably mix it pretty well

[warbonnetguy]

that's a good idea.




If you knew the proportions of the mix you could buy an empty paint can at home depot mix the stuff in the parking lot and have them shake it for like 15 minutes that would probably mix it pretty well

[slowhike]

I was thinking of trying tolulene as a thinner due to my theory that being very volitle it would evaporate off quickly and just leave the silicone film on the fabric. The fumes would not be good to breath in I admit, so well ventilated would be a must and no sparks or open flames to be sure.

might be ok as long as it still gives you enough working time to remove the excess before it dries... & as long as you have great ventilation.

[GREEN THERAPY]

If you knew the proportions of the mix you could buy an empty paint can at home depot mix the stuff in the parking lot and have them shake it for like 15 minutes that would probably mix it pretty well

Love this forum. For every problem there are so many "why didn't I think of that solutions". The wheels are in motion now to get some silicone and go to the local paint store.

[warbonnetguy]

cool, can't wait till someone does a full tarp.

[GREEN THERAPY]

Here is a link from Ed Speers home page that talks about making Silnylon seam sealer. Mabe if the proportions were modified its along the same idea.
http://www.hammockcamping.com/Free%20Reports/Silnylon.htm

[headchange4u]

Have you thought about using a squeegee to apply the silicone? Maybe soaking the fabric, laying it out flat, and then using a squeegee to go over the fabric, sorta like screen printing a shirt. You may also be able to just lay the fabric out flat and pour the diluted silicone on the fabric, and then go over it with a squeegee.

Using a squeegee would remove extra silicone and it would probably do a good job of forcing the mixture into the fabric and it would give you a pretty even coating.

[Iafte]

What about an old wash basin and ringer, mix everything in the tub, soak the fabric then run it through this :

http://www.co.ocean.nj.us/museums/images/ringer.jpg


You would want a newer one than this one.

[Rapt]

I've been thinking about doing this too... Glad to see someone made the first plunge...

From my point of view using something that dries faster is NOT an advantage. The idea I would think is to get as much penetration as possible rather than coating the surface.

My idea was to make a big enough pot to soak the fabric in all at once. Even leave it soak for some time. My experience with dying was that it takes a fair bit of time for full wetting. So I figured the same here...

Then I was thinking of hanging it out on the clothesline to wipe down and let dry.

Also considered doing a very thin mix and multiple applications.

[Doctari]

WOW, great thread.

I for one am tired of the limited color choices offered by the makers of silnylon, seems thay have the Henry Ford mentality of: "Give them any color they want, as long as it's black".

I'm going to try this!

I too think that a few coats of "too thin" may be the way to go.

Would spraying it on with a paint gun work? I'm thinking the pressure would force the sylicon into the fibers. Spray one side (While hanging up?) then the other. Repete? This would also be a really good time to be wearing a respirator, and eye protection.

Again, this is a Great thread!!

Thanks!

Doctari.

[Rapt]

You could probably make some interesting colour shifts by using coloured silicone too...

[NCPatrick]

And different textures too. Adds a whole new dimension... make a 3D topographical map of your intended hike - in silicone - right on your tarp!

[warbonnetguy]

hadn't thought about the multiple thinner soakings. might penetrate deeper that way, and you could weigh it after each time to see how much was added.

[TiredFeet]

I used silicone caulking to treat heavy paper mailing tubes to seal and make waterproof. Worked great.

Mixed 3 to 1 low odor mineral spirits to silicone caulking by weight. Wasn't real accurate, didn't need to be. Mixed it up in small batches using only 1 oz of silicone caulking. Found out that a little bit goes a long ways.

I've read where commercial 1.1 oz silnyl is actually 1.3 oz per yard. So figure 0.2 oz per yard silicone. That's 5 square yards per oz of silicone. The JRB 8x8 tarp is slightly over 6 square yards, so 1 oz of silicone will just about do the whole tarp. Figure 1.5 oz would be more than enough.

As warbonnetguy says it takes a long time to mix it thoroughly. Once mixed I simply used those foam brushes to paint the inside and outside of the tube. Hung in the basement to dry. Took about 24 to 48 hours to cure really good. Tried a second coat on one, but the second coat ended up peeling off in some places. The first coat penetrated far enough in the heavy and dense paper and prevented the second coat from penetrating real good.

Did the same on some heavy cordura fabric. Same mixture. 2 coats worked real well. Again just mixed and painted using foam brushes and allowed 48 hours to cure thoroughly.

Water just beads up and rolls right off.

With the low odor mineral spirits, neither my girl friend (whose nose is very senistive) nor I could smell anything in the house at all. Also, don't worry about time. It took a long time, many hours, for it to dry and cure. Even the excess left in the tuna fish mixing can.

[slowhike]

.With the low odor mineral spirits, neither my girl friend (whose nose is very senistive) nor I could smell anything in the house at all. Also, don't worry about time. It took a long time, many hours, for it to dry and cure. Even the excess left in the tuna fish mixing can.

that's probably a good thing.
something i've noticed when seam sealing w/ silicon diluted w/ white gas was that it began to thicken before i finished the tarp.
some thing that didn't evaporate as quickly would take longer to cure but it would be helpful for the application.

[campcrafter]

Has anyone doen anymore experimenting with this?

Thinking of having a go at it.

cc

[clodbuster]

A power drill driven paint stirrer should do nicely. I mix all kinds of things with 'em and they're cheap.

[daibutsu]

I think that 'silnylon' is a fortuitous offshoot of skydiving technology. As I remember some guy, Mike or Dave, years ago affiliated with a parachute manufacturer in Deland Florida added silicone to nylon, during the manufacturing process. This was when we made this in the States. It was marketed as Zero P for zero porosity to enhance glide performance. Since that many old timer skydivers tried to somehow recoat nylon, but it just never would work.

[alex30808]

Warbonnetguy...sorry I never answered your question from page 1...I experimented with liquified plexiglass and Minwax Wood Hardner...the plexiglass is liquified in acetone...then pulled to about 19 to 20 inches of vac...more than that and the acetone starts to boil. Once these #'s are acheived...you valve off the vessel and allow the wood to soak until it sinks...anywhere from 12-24 hours. Allow the vessel to come back to atmosphere and remove the soaked wood...the acetone is then allowed to dry at room temp or you can bake it out in a few hours at low heat.

If you were to try the sil nylon in this fashion I would pull the vac until you see the Mineral Spirits boil...then release the pressure...note the boiling point or look up the BP on the internet and keep the vac below this #. Submerse the nylon and pull the vac and valve off...allow it to "soak" for a while...then remove and dry.

just a thought.

[Narwhalin]

Has anyone doen anymore experimenting with this?

Thinking of having a go at it.

cc


I am also wondering if anyone has had any success/failures to report with regards to coating or impregnating thieir own nylon. I want to do it, but I am unsure what method to use as several have been mentioned here.

HC4U you mentioned screen printing. My brother works at a screen printing place. Could that be of any benefit to me for this purpose?

[tight-wad]

My results weren't as good as WarBonnets. I used 1 gallon of coleman gas, a $6 hand mixer from walmart, a big tube of 100% silicone caulk, a 5 quart plastic bucket, some foam rollers/brushes, and $1 per yard (beautiful light brown!) 1.1 oz ripstop nylon. and... latex gloves.

I think the problem I had may have been the fabric. It was ripstop, and by my crude measurements seemed to be 1.1 oz, but upon closer inspection, and given that it came from the $1 bin, it may have been less than that, i.e. very "holey".

~ pint of colemans, big squirt of caulk, mix for a long time, shove the fabric in, mush it around, push, pull, squeeze, poke, prod.... Take it out, lay it on the -clean- garage floor, use the roller to apply everything left in the bucket, hang it up to dry. I was making a tarp and thus had 2 pieces to sil before sewing. Mix another batch, do 2nd piece. Next day, mix 2 more batches and do each piece a 2nd time. By now, I have used > 1/2 of the caulk.

Make the tarp, seal the seams, hang it in the yard, test it with the water hose, gentle rain shower setting. No go. Leaks.

Add 1 can of spray on seam sealer. No go. Add 2 cans of spray on. No go. This is getting expensive. Punt

tight-wad

[warbonnetguy]

if there are leaks it might mean you mixed too thin. in which case you might need another coating.

the 1 yard piece i did turned out as waterproof as sil and right at the same weight. just thinned the mix the right amount, soaked the fabric in it till it was totally soaked (not long) and then wiped off all the excess and hung to dry.

just play around with small batches and pieces of fabric to get the ratio of thinner to sil correct, then do a tarp. i would use a scale to weigh your finished samples to see how much sil you added. i used a piece that was 1 sq yd so it would be easy to tell. test under the shower head to see if water beads through badly. you can compare it to a piece of regular sil if you want.

for the final project, i would make the tarp out of breathable fabric, set it up, stretch it really tight and rub the mix on with a sponge and work it in real good on both sides, and then wipe it off really good. then just take it down when it's dry.

[Narwhalin]

Would this method of making the tarp out of the breathable material first, then coating it with the sil mean that you could effectively combine the seam sealing of the ridgeline into the coating of the tarp? It seems to me this would give a nice clean look.

[alex30808]

I would think so. Being that you're making it water proof AFTER the fact.

[dufus934]

This is awesome! What ratios are you guys who have had good results using?

[headchange4u]

Has anyone tried using a squeegee when coating the fabric. I have one of these squeegees (http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/rodi_1996_684946) I got from Walmart.

I would think a squeegee would serve 3 purposes:

1. It would force the silicone into the fabric, saturating the fabric better than just soaking.

2.A more even coating of silicone on the fabric.

3. Remove excess silicone, reducing the overall weight.

Of course this is all just speculation and conjecture and would have to be tested.

[CajunHiker]

Seems like there should be a way to rig a large roller press using some pvc.

[Narwhalin]

HC4U, are you talking about using the squeegee to apply the coating or just to wipe it off or both? I wonder if WarbonettGuy had a nice smooth finish with the sponge?

[NCPatrick]

If anyone comes up with the proper (easily repeatable, chemically stable) formula, could we get someone to mix up some jars of it to ship to HF members? That would be a great community service.

I'm not into mixing up stuff myself, but I'd certainly pitch in for something that really works...

Would a paint roller work?

[dufus934]

If we can figure up correct ratios, I have some connections at my local Sherwin Williams and I think I can get a discount on the stuff (silicone caulk, thinners, etc), and I know I can get it shaken up. The only thing is that you can't use xylene, because you can't shake that (it'll explode). Otherwise, make sure it is something that can be put in a shaker. Just call your local Sherwin Williams or ask me and I can ask them. Don't know if this will help anyone, but if it will, let me know.

[headchange4u]

HC4U, are you talking about using the squeegee to apply the coating or just to wipe it off or both? I wonder if WarbonettGuy had a nice smooth finish with the sponge?


I kinda see soaking the fabric in a silicone solution, like in bucket or similar, then removing the fabric, laying it out flat, and then running the squeegee over the fabric.

[Narwhalin]

I kinda see soaking the fabric in a silicone solution, like in bucket or similar, then removing the fabric, laying it out flat, and then running the squeegee over the fabric.

I think I may try a combination of yours and WarbonnetGuy's ideas and make the tarp out of breathable material, then coat it w/ a sponge. Then, I will squeegee. Maybe it won't even need the squeegee if it is smooth enough.

[warbonnetguy]

yeah, just make sure to get all the excess off, it should just be damp when you are done, nothing left on the surface.

let us know how it turns out.

[dufus934]

What kind of stand/surface are you guys using when laying out the fabric to wipe off the excess. I know if I just put it on a garage floor, I'd have crap all over my tarp. Is maybe a clothes line better?

[Ramblinrev]

I am curious... Is there madness behind this method? With the availability of silnylon commercially is there a reason to be making your own. Other than the obsession to DIY that runs rampant in the camping community. That of course is a given.

[daibutsu]

lol, self flagellation, reinventing the wheel, and sisyphus, (sp-5) have been around forever!!! But not ZP nylon!!

Just an observation...

[Ramblinrev]

lol, self flagellation, reinventing the wheel, and sisyphus, (sp-5) have been around forever!!! But not ZP nylon!!

Just an observation...


None of which apply to my post BTW. If someone gets a rush out of making a mess then more power to them.

[tight-wad]

I kinda see soaking the fabric in a silicone solution, like in bucket or similar, then removing the fabric, laying it out flat, and then running the squeegee over the fabric.

This is what I did, twice for each piece, except I used a small foam roller to press it in.


What kind of stand/surface are you guys using when laying out the fabric to wipe off the excess. I know if I just put it on a garage floor, I'd have crap all over my tarp. Is maybe a clothes line better?

Clean the floor as best you can. Fortunately for me there were no oil spots from cars or anything like that. You can't press with rollers or brushes or sponges if it is hanging. Hang it after applying the mix.


I am curious... Is there madness behind this method? With the availability of silnylon commercially is there a reason to be making your own. Other than the obsession to DIY that runs rampant in the camping community. That of course is a given.

Colors. Finding sil in "stealth" colors is hard! Also - cheap http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif

$1 bin fabric + $5 for caulk + $5 for white gas = cheap.

[tight-wad]

if there are leaks it might mean you mixed too thin. in which case you might need another coating. ... use a scale to weigh your finished samples to see how much sil you added. ....

The caulk tube is 10.6 fluid ounces.. hmmm, fluid, hmm... is a fluid ounce more or less than a mass ounce... hmmm... I actually used most of the tube for a tarp that was going to be 10x8 finished. That's more than 1/2 a fluid pound for a tarp that is supposed to be less than 1 pound total. I did weigh each piece after each app (I have the notes somewhere), and I remember thinking that after the first app it was over 1.2 oz/sq yd, and after the 2nd app 1.3+. After the 2nd coat dried, it was like the sheet had a bad case of dandruff, all the little and bigger flakes of silicone. It definitely had a lot of sil embedded because it had a rubbery feel to it, it was harder to blow thru, and it did bead up some water. It just did not pass the rain shower test.



... set it up, stretch it really tight and rub the mix on with a sponge and work it in real good on both sides, and then wipe it off really good...

hmmm... both sides... hmmm .... really tight... I basically kneaded the fabric in the bucket for a few minutes to get it soaked thru and thru, and then laid it on the garage floor. While on the floor I followed up with a roller to press it in/smooth it out on one side. Then hung it up to dry.

I really think it was this fabric more than the technique. As I was applying the spray on sil in the shade I could see pinpoints of light. This tells me that the $1 yard bargain bin stuff was a very loose weave and maybe that's why it was in the bargain bin.

??? The technique works for fabric with "holes" smaller than x, but it can't plug holes bigger than a pasta strainer, or whatever the magic number is....???

Maybe I'll try it one more time with what's left of the tube, what the heck it can't hurt. And get the exact measure of yards and weights to share with y'all....

[Narwhalin]

I am interested in coating my own because of several reasons. I can't ever find waterproof fabric in the dollar bin, but I seem to find quite a bit of ripstop. I will save money this way, as well.

Is it worth the $4-5/yd. I will save by doing it myself? Well, on a 7 yard project it depends on the cost of the silicone and thinner. Can anyone guesstimate the cost of those materials?

[warbonnetguy]

when i did it, it was before anyone mentioned multiple coats possibly being better than one. i did 3 tiny pieces, picked the best lookng mix (just eyeballed it by thickness/runniness) and did a 1 sq yd piece. i hung it up and wiped it off. it turned out really nice after it dried, no excess or flakes or anything.

[Narwhalin]

Someone was asking about factory coating of sil, which had me searching for how they do it. I just kept reading over and over again how the fabric is really just coated on both sides. I didn't find how the fabrics were made in the factory, but I did come up on this page on coatings: FAQ: Acrylic, Polyurethane and Silicone Proofing Techniques (http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_SiliconeVsPU.htm)

About 2/3 of the way down, they discuss silnylon and say a few interesting things:




Silicone coating

Technically, the 'silnylon' fabric is 'double-coated'. That is, a coating of silicone polyer has been applied to both sides. Well, fair enough, but there is a huge difference in the result between PU and silicone coating. The PU coating sits on the surface of the fabric, but the silicone polymer goes right in. As far as I can see (with a microscope) the silicone polymer completely permeates the fabric fibers and forms a layer right through the fabric. As far as the final fabric properties are concerned, you should not think of 'silnylon' as a 'coated fabric', but rather as 'nylon-fabric-reinforced silicone polymer sheet'. This is a bit like fibreglass or glass-reinforced epoxy.

This difference translates into mechanical properties too. A key parameter is 'tear strength'. It is claimed that a PU coating focuses the stress in a tear right at the tip of the tear, and this actually makes a PU-coated fabric behave weaker than the base fabric. However, the elastic silicone polymer in silnylon fabric takes over and distributes the stress across a number of threads, and this makes the silnylon fabric significantly stronger in tear than the base fabric - reportedly up to 2.2 times stronger. Note this does not apply to EPIC fabrics.

Silicone is the stuff that is used to seal aquariums, bathtubs and sinks, and other applications where water must not be allowed to leak through. When it rains on silnylon fabric all the water stays on the surface, and a quick shake will get rid of almost all of it, and its associated weight. A few minutes in the wind or sunshine and silnylon will completely dry out. Certainly, I have found that I can shake most of the water off my silnylon tents, and the packed weight is rarely much different. In comparison with PU, silicone is 'hydrophobic' (water hating). By its nature it repels water, and water will not act as a solvent on it. Your packed-up wet tent may get mouldy if you leave it long enough, but it won't go sticky. Finally, the silicone in silnylon completely permeates the fabric fibers - it can't peel off. But remember: it does not breathe!


So, considering the last statement, what could that peeling be? Excess silicone?

[catnip]

I am curious... Is there madness behind this method? With the availability of silnylon commercially is there a reason to be making your own. Other than the obsession to DIY that runs rampant in the camping community. That of course is a given.

Making one's own stuff is a hobby, does there have to be a reason? :)

I'm outfitting myself and 3 of my kids so the cost of silnylon is pretty significant to me. I've been following this thread because I plan to siliconize my own tarps and/or tarptents made from $1/yard ripstop sometime in the future. Too busy this month, I'm working three 6-day/50-hour weeks in a row for extra cash for things I'd rather not or can't make.

Also it's very cool to say I made my own, and have unique stuff. No one's going to mistake my purple and green, custom, self-made G4 for a ready-made pack. :D

[Ramblinrev]

Making one's own stuff is a hobby, does there have to be a reason?


No of course not! That is certainly reason enuf.

[campcrafter]

I don't know if Jim Wood is a member here, but he has an article on this I just found, relating mostly to tent floors. But he does have a recipe and procedure.

A Treatment for Silnylon Floors (http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/Silnylon1/index.html#Description)

cc

[NCPatrick]

Great link. Thanks!

[Narwhalin]

Interesting read! In the article, he says that 1:3 ratio was best, but I went to one of the forum entries about the project, and Jim Wood said this:


Hawkeye: Thanks for your comments... I'm glad the process worked well for you.

By the way, if you find you have a problem with your silnylon tent "misting" in heavy rains, you can use the same process (though perhaps slightly more diluted to say, 1:5) to seal the canopy.

Jim Wood.

Just thought I would pass that along, since we are talking about the canopy or tarp rather than the floor...

Also in the article, he mentions this:


To the best of my knowledge, this process (at least using these ingredients) only works well on silnylon. If applied to other fabrics, the treatment will usually rub off with little effort.


Perhaps the fabric Tiredfeet used had another treatment on it, causing the peeling?

[TiredFeet]

......
Perhaps the fabric Tiredfeet used had another treatment on it, causing the peeling?

I used the silicone treatment on 2 separate things using the (approximate) 3:1 mixture.

First a heavy paper (the paper is about 1/8" thick - very heavy strong stuff). The first coat worked well, but I am very conservative and applied a second coat 2 or 3 days later. The second coat is the one that peeled in some small places. Not too sure why it peeled - could be the application, could be that the first coat prevented the second coat from really adhering in those places, could be .....

The second thing I coated is some very heavy, strong cordura nylon (think Army camo rucksack). Used two coats again. Both coats worked well, no peeling. The cordura is water poof now.

[dufus934]

So, in reading all of this, the process seems like it is kind of easy. Am I wrong?

[TiredFeet]

So, in reading all of this, the process seems like it is kind of easy. Am I wrong?

Nope - I found it to be very easy except for mixing - that takes a Looooooooong time. Just don't get discouraged while mixing it will eventually get there. I used a foam brush and a tuna can - no clean up, just throw away.

[Buckeyebuck]

Factory sil is very slippery. Does the homemade stuff end-up as smooth, or is it tacky? Thanks for the great info.

b

[tight-wad]

Factory sil is very slippery. Does the homemade stuff end-up as smooth, or is it tacky? Thanks for the great info.

b

Not slippery and not tacky. More rubbery.

[tight-wad]

Nope - I found it to be very easy except for mixing - that takes a Looooooooong time. Just don't get discouraged while mixing it will eventually get there. I used a foam brush and a tuna can - no clean up, just throw away.

$6 hand mixer from Wally's world. Worth every penny.

[Buckeyebuck]

Not slippery and not tacky. More rubbery.

Does that "rubbery" finish make it more difficult to work with? Or problematic to pack?

I really like the idea of having a wider selection of colors and also a (cheaper) fabric that I'm not too worried about ruining as I delve into sewing/gear-making for the first time. ;)

[warbonnetguy]

i thought it made a nice fabric, it was different feeling than sil, but not in any bad way, looked a little different too, almost a little more translucent with the grey i used

[NCPatrick]

i thought it made a nice fabric, it was different feeling than sil, but not in any bad way, looked a little different too, almost a little more translucent with the grey i used

How is the weight? Is it heavier than your typical 1.3 oz silnylon?

[tight-wad]

Scored! Found some camo 1.1 oz ripstop in the dollar bin! But… only 5 yards. :( I was hoping to make an 8x8 tarp, guess it will have to be a 7.5 x 8 (or nine). Interesting, it’s 68” wide.

Cut it in half. All numbers from here on are for one half… Also, all measurements were by hand with a cheap scale, so factor in some margin of error.

7.5 feet x 5.67 feet = ~ 4.7 sq yards. 4.9 ounces. 4.9 / 4.7 =~ 1.03 oz / sq yard.

Commercial Sil is advertised as 1.3 oz / sq yards.

Therefore, to make 4.7 sq yards @ 1.03 oz / sq yard = 1.3 oz/sq yd, you need to add ~ 1.4 ounces of silicone.

Using a 3:1 ratio of mix to silicone by weight … 9 ounces of mineral spirits ~ 16 fluid ounce plastic cup. On wax paper, 3 ounces by weight of silicone (100% sil caulk in a tube) ~ a mound about the size of a baseball cut in half. (I over estimated the amount of waste. My final product is actually close to 1.5 oz/sq yard, ie very little loss.) Dump it all in a 5 quart plastic paint bucket. $6.99 electric hand mixer from Wally’s (cake mixer/egg beater) … Beat it for about 10 minutes… :eek: (First time was for 5 minutes. This wasn’t long enough. Small globs of sil all over.)

Have some paper towels ready…. Also, I used 4 safety pins and some Masons’ line tied high across 2 support poles in my basement. Put newspaper under the Masons’ line. Have all this ready before the next step.;)

Shove the fabric in the bucket... bare handed. Push, pull, squeeze, massage, knead, pull it part way out, re-drape into the bucket, push, pull, squeeze it like a sponge, pull it part way out, re-drape… do this for 5 – 10 minutes. Hope sil does not cause cancer! (Used latex gloves once, but they fell apart in the mineral spirits.)

Wipe your hands. Put safety pin in one corner and hang on the line. Put safety pin in other corner on the edge, hang. Put safety pins in the middle and hang. Use extra line to the posts to pull the ends tight. Straighten the hanging wet fabric to get all folds out. Wipe hands again. Pour fresh spirits on paper towel and wipe hands again. Wash hands with soap and hot water. Wash again.

Let it dry overnight. Take it down and test.

Success!!!

I actually postponed the test until after finishing the tarp. Final dimensions are 9+' x 7+'. With grosgrain tieouts and a new, smaller, batch of the mix for seam sealer ~13 ounces. Good test too, put it up in the yard to do the seam sealing and storms came through 2 afternoons in a row. No leaks!:cool:

Note: No brushes or squeezeeges required for the basics. Used an old toothbrush to apply seam sealer.

[warbonnetguy]

you didn't wipe off the excess with anything? i wiped mine as dry as possible with a cloth.

glad it turned out well, i think you are the first to make an actual piece of gear using this method.

[DougTheElder]

Forgive the change in directions, but while I have the attention of fabric-minded folks, maybe someone can help. I have an older backpack that spent too many years in my attic. The fabric (Cordura?) has become gummy feeling on the inside. Any cures? Suggestions?

[Schneiderlein]

Forgive the change in directions, but while I have the attention of fabric-minded folks, maybe someone can help. I have an older backpack that spent too many years in my attic. The fabric (Cordura?) has become gummy feeling on the inside. Any cures? Suggestions?

I had the same thing happen on an old backpack I bought in '86 and kept in the attic for a long time. The fabric was gummy and stuck to itself in some places almost like it was welded. Must be the South Carolina heat. The pack was beyond repair and about 4 pounds too heavy anyway. So, the cure for me was to toss it and sew a new pack based on the G4 instructions.

[tight-wad]

you didn't wipe off the excess with anything? i wiped mine as dry as possible with a cloth.


Nope. But...

...the first piece, where I only mixed the solution for 5 minutes, did have lots of small flakes of silicone after it dried. No problem to pick them off, if the looks bother you and you want to waste the time. 2nd piece where I mixed for 10 minutes did not have this issue.

Now for the big decision... is 7'2" wide enough????

[turkeyboy]

Did anybody ever actually make an entire tarp using the methods described in this thread. I found some nice 1.1 digital camo ripstop and I want to use it for a tarp, but it is untreated. I thought I might try this method, but I wanted to check if anybody actually had success on an entire tarp.

Also, is the best approach to sew the tarp first, then try to waterproof the fabric?

[tight-wad]

yep - spent the week under it while the wife was away (trying out my new bridge and tweaking the ridge length on the other), and it rained a couple of nights.

waterproof, then sew.

[jeffjenn]

Tight-wad, was the fabric you used completely uncoated to begin with? Was it the digital camo?
Like this: http://www.diytacticalstore.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75&products_id=340&zenid=50e11d38e0dcec52526d816730767769

[turkeyboy]

It was completely uncoated. I got it at Wal-mart, so I'm not sure if it is exactly the same stuff, but looks similar. I tried soaking a piece about 5'X5' in silicon/mineral spirits solution and it seems to have done the trick. A sprinkler test didn't reveal any leaks. I'll probably end up treating the rest of it and making a tarp.

[turkeyboy]

waterproof, then sew.

Why is it better to treat first? I would have thought the opposite . . . .

[Ramblinrev]

probably has to do with less volume to soak at one time. I suspect it is easier to get a good coating with less volume. Plus you can mix up smaller batches and use smaller containers.

[warbonnetguy]

i had considered (but never tried) making the tarp, setting it up tight, and then spongeing it on both sides and them wiping it off, no soaking at all, if it is breathable to begin with, it should absorb into it.

[boar]

Ive been wanting to try this but a little differently thought it wet the fabric with sil/mineral spirts solution then put it in a food saver bag and vacume bag it for a bit then remove it and set it up to dry. Might even be able to leave it bagged for qute a while as I dont think the silicone will setup in that environment might try this weekend

Marty

[Schneiderlein]

Ive been wanting to try this but a little differently thought it wet the fabric with sil/mineral spirts solution then put it in a food saver bag and vacume bag it for a bit then remove it and set it up to dry. Might even be able to leave it bagged for qute a while as I dont think the silicone will setup in that environment might try this weekend

Marty

Marty,

I have stored silicone/mineral spirits in a mason jar that I pulled a vacuum on using a pretty powerful vacuum pump through a one-way valve made by punching a hole in the lid and covering it with electrical tape that had a strip of a grocery plastic bag running down the middle (this whole thing was inspired by some hand-pump gadget that I saw on TV). The vacuum held well and it definitely slowed down the curing process. The mixture was usable the next day but required a bit of stirring and further thinning with mineral spirits. I would not recommend leaving the fabric and sil mixture under vacuum for an extended period of time. I would also be a bit concerned about using a food saver for the project. The fumes of curing silicone have a pretty strong odor.

Good luck making silnylon!

[boar]

Schneiderlein,

thanks for your response I like the valve on the mason jar idea on jars I use the food saver jar atachment it uses a hose so I can ust the food saver, hand pump, or a larger pump out in the shop it seals a cannin jar lid down pretty handy to have aroun at times
as to usein the food saver I thought vac it and seal it would be a simple way to do it let it sit for 20- 30 mins kinda watch and see when it seems right
as to the fumes I have a dedicated vacbagger for the shop and yeah silicone does have a very strong odor thanks for the concern

Marty

[Schneiderlein]

Marty,

the electrical tape valve really works surprisingly well. It has kept stuff under vacuum for many months and costs next to nothing.

I think you should be fine if it's only 20-30 minutes. I am interested in your results and whether the vacuum helps to get it coated evenly. I have some of the untreated Walmart digital ripstop that would make a really nice tarp.

[boar]

Ive done some vacume assited resin transfer vartm and closed cavity bag molding ccbm in the past and think it will be a simular application and achive good saturation

Marty

[tight-wad]

Tight-wad, was the fabric you used completely uncoated to begin with? Was it the digital camo?
Like this: http://www.diytacticalstore.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75&products_id=340&zenid=50e11d38e0dcec52526d816730767769

The fabric is the "old fashioned" kind of plain jane camo, not digital, ~1.1 oz/sq yd, no coating whatsoever, rip stop nylon.

Yep - as Ramblinrev suggested - treat, then sew, because of the volume, or rather in this case the square feet. To hang a 10x10 ft piece on a line you would have to have a ladder, and then it would be dragging all over the ground picking up nasty tidbits as you moved to the other side, all while your hands are nasty, and the mess is drying before you can straighten it out, and ...

[boar]

I'm thinking sew then treat then hang as it was ment to hang if it is a tarp silicone doesnt have that short a pot life not sure how introducin solvents to it affects it but I'm thinkin there would be enough time to pitch it

Maert

[warbonnetguy]

i say sew it, pitch it, then treat it while it's pitched. that stuff absorbs into the fabric pretty well just by wiping it on.

[boar]

Ok I played with this last night and this morning first try i mixed my sil a bit to thick it stoped up the channels on the bag and couldnt get a good tight vacume cleand up the mess mixed a thinned batch about the consistency of vegtable oil worked great bit its still kinda a mess from the first try. also tried pitch and wipe on another one that worked just fine wasnt as messy as pitching a wet tarp I think thats how i will continue to do ittill something better comes up I think the vacume was a solution to a problem that didnt exist the stuff soaked right in just wiping it on. I also did a bag just a bit ago Ill go out this evening and see how it holds water bte the tarps shed water real well didnt have a sprinkler handy but full dumps from a bucket didnt phase it we will see what real rain does ...if it ever rains again

Marty

[kayak karl]

i was at goodwill today and bought 3 pairs of 100% nylon pants made by WILSON. for $3.50 each i figure i would try to treat them. any suggestions :)

[warbonnetguy]

Ok I played with this last night and this morning first try i mixed my sil a bit to thick it stoped up the channels on the bag and couldnt get a good tight vacume cleand up the mess mixed a thinned batch about the consistency of vegtable oil worked great bit its still kinda a mess from the first try. also tried pitch and wipe on another one that worked just fine wasnt as messy as pitching a wet tarp I think thats how i will continue to do ittill something better comes up I think the vacume was a solution to a problem that didnt exist the stuff soaked right in just wiping it on. I also did a bag just a bit ago Ill go out this evening and see how it holds water bte the tarps shed water real well didnt have a sprinkler handy but full dumps from a bucket didnt phase it we will see what real rain does ...if it ever rains again

Marty

cool, if it comes through in a hard rain, that will tell you if you need a thicker mixture next time or perhaps another coat.

[Dutch]

I plan on making a pair of wind pants. My idea is to make pajama bottoms out of some Walmart 1.1 and soak them in a solution of silicone and mineral spirits. For those that played around with making your own sil. Do you think I can sew it together and than soak it, or should I coat the material, then cut and sew? The first one is my preferred because that seals the seams. My fear is it will be glued together.

[tight-wad]

I don't think it will be "glued" together, but it will stick together. The concern would be when you pull the stuck pieces apart, will that pull some of the sil off and leave a bare spot? It won't technically "pull it off" because the sil is embedded in the fibers, but it would thin it a bit. If you could prepare a hanging place so that you could keep the legs open while drying that might work. ... Hang by the waist using a big wire circle and clothes/safety pins, and then use stiff wire loops of the right size on the ankle cuffs???

[turkeyboy]

If you could prepare a hanging place so that you could keep the legs open while drying that might work.

This is consistent with my experience.

[E.A.Y.]

OK, so I finally got around to reading this thread and I'm quoting a whole bunch of folks, so hang on tight, here we go!


I don't know if Jim Wood is a member here, but he has an article on this I just found, relating mostly to tent floors. But he does have a recipe and procedure.
A Treatment for Silnylon Floors (http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/Silnylon1/index.html#Description)
cc

I did this (Jim Wood's technique) for a bivy sack and it was super easy (except for the stirring part). Seems like it would work also for waterproofing other kinds of fabric like cordura or something. But that bivy sack was a LOT smaller then even 1/2 a tarp. I laid the bottom piece of the sack out flat on the garage floor over a cotton painter's cloth and painted the mixture on with a cheap brush. Let it dry a few hours (didn't take long in our dry weather - -10% humidity), turned it over and did the other side.


Nope - I found it to be very easy except for mixing - that takes a Looooooooong time. Just don't get discouraged while mixing it will eventually get there. I used a foam brush and a tuna can - no clean up, just throw away.


A power drill driven paint stirrer should do nicely. I mix all kinds of things with 'em and they're cheap.

I was considering an immersion blender. Known around here as a "blender on a stick" - I use mine in the kitchen for creamy soups and will pick up a second one for making soap. Only thing I'm not sure about is how it'll clean up after being used on mineral spirits + caulking.

eay (liz)

[JaxHiker]

I'm in the process of doing some self-waterproofing tests. My only issue with the DIY silicone mix is that I think it'll be incredibly time consuming to do a large piece of material. Just got back from a 3-day hike but I'm hoping to get back to my tests soon.

[Dutch]

I finished with my wind pants last night. I used a pajama bottom pattern and some 1.1 from Wally world. I wanted to make a pair that is less than 3 ounces and maybe waterproof. I was going to try to get a blender at Goodwill, but they didn't have any. So instead I took a Glad ware container and cut a hole in the lid. I inserted a "T" made out of plastic in the hole. The "T" is plastic scrap from work. You could use a paint mixer for a drill. I then attached a drill to the protruding end and mixed away. This worked very well for mixing it although it still took some time. I could see though the clear plastic once the bubble went away that all the silicone was dissolved. Then I used the same container to dip the pants. It made my hands soft and slippery. I suggest good ventilation. I did it at work and there were some complaints from the little indians that it stinks. I told them this is very important for the company and they should pay it no mind. I was able to clip the pants open at the top and as it was drying I pulled the legs apart. After about 15 minutes they started to get rigid and would stay open. After one application it added about .4 ounces of silicone to 2 sq yards of material. I ran water over it and it ran right off. I then ran water over it with a paper towel on the inside and after a little time the towel got a little wet. So I soaked it again in the Sil mixture this time absorbing it all and hanging it to dry. It dries very fast. After it was dry it really felt like sil-nylon. But, it still didn't pass the water test. The final weight was 2.8 ounces so I added .8 ounces of silicone to 2 ounces of fabric. I was only trying to make wind pants for an upcoming trip to the desert, but I had delusions of grandeur and was hoping for light weight rain pants. They would work for light rain but you would get wet in a down pour. I really don't hike in rain pants anyhow so they would work for camp and keeping warm. They will work real well as wind pants. The wind pants I was looking to buy cost $70+ and these cost me about $6. I didn't perfect it well enough to make a tarp though.

[JohnH]

So really I'm hearing from Dutch that this would work great for a Tarp (No direct contact with the wet fabric) but not for doing pants or even a jacket...


That's too bad. I had some ripstop pants that I was hoping to coat in this manner to use as light weight rain pants.

[Dutch]

Since I have had a chance to use the windpants I am wondering if my procedure isn't flawed. I was trying to make windpants that would double as light rain pants. I don't really hike in rainpants unless it is very cold. I did use the wind pants in the Grand canyon in snow.
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/9/100_0296_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=4708&c=member&orderby=title&direction=ASC&imageuser=409&cutoffdate=-1)
After I got through the snow I checked and my pants were wet from the knees down. I can also breath through the pants so it wasn't a real surprised. But I wonder if I were to repeat the process and recoat them that there would be a point that they would become waterproof. As is I would need to do better if I wanted to make a tarp. I hear great success in that application. I depend far too much on down to be getting wet. They are light and doe hepl with the wind. I didn't use them much but they were so light it was nice to know I had another layer if i need it. Also the fabric i used was the tranlucuent 1.1 psuedo rip stop from the $1.50 bin that is too thin to hold very much silicone. In any case I am not making a real conclusions after my first attempt and will try this for something else in the future.

[T-BACK]

I wonder if you could force the silicone through the fabric with a squeegee or some such. I don't even know if that is possible or if it would make any difference. Maybe if you sprayed the fabric with silicone waterproofing first it might help the mixture bond better. Silicone only seems to adhere well to silicone.

[lenle01]

T-back you might be on to something. If you put a frame of 1x1's together you could tack the fabric like a painters canvas. Then squeegee the sil mixture on both sides of the fabric. kind of like silk screening a t-shirt. Although you would end up wasting the fabric edge's.

[Alter Id]

No one has mentioned using silicone spray or a Camp Dry type product, is this because it wouldn't be durable? Would it completely waterproof a non-waterproof fabric? The reason I ask is, we have a local chemical recycler where I come across lots of silicone lubricant and waterproofing in spray cans.

If the spray option gets shot down, I can also get free tubes of the caulk and jugs of Coleman fuel. I still have a free option, just a much messier one. And I don't mean a French Canadian.

[jeffjenn]

I used the sil spray cans to give a piece of untreated fabric what is more of a DWR coating. Not waterproof.

[Alter Id]

Thanks for the reply jeffjen. I was hoping the reason people weren't using the sprays was the "bang for your buck" factor. Oh well, I'm just glad that there is so much good advice in this thread.

[JaxHiker]

No one has mentioned using silicone spray or a Camp Dry type product, is this because it wouldn't be durable? Would it completely waterproof a non-waterproof fabric? The reason I ask is, we have a local chemical recycler where I come across lots of silicone lubricant and waterproofing in spray cans.

If the spray option gets shot down, I can also get free tubes of the caulk and jugs of Coleman fuel. I still have a free option, just a much messier one. And I don't mean a French Canadian.
Well, I've been slow in posting the results of my testing. I've tried DIY silicone mixture, spray-on, etc. I still have one more test to run but I'll try to get the results posted soon. We got into the holidays and it fell to the backburner.

[boarstone]

I just snagged an ungodly amount of silnylon from my local wal-mart for $1.50 and while I was at it, bought all they had of green rip-stop nylon. Yards and yards...I was wondering why I bought the rip-stop????....after reading here guess I'll have to try a small piece for waterproofing...I have way more than I will ever use all up...anyone interested in it, the rip-stop, with a sase can send sample. e-mail [email protected]

[LostCause]

Lucky!

I can never find silnylon at my local wal mart...

[Splinter]

Lucky!

I can never find silnylon at my local wal mart...

Ain't that the truth!!!!:eek:


No one has mentioned using silicone spray or a Camp Dry type product, is this because it wouldn't be durable? Would it completely waterproof a non-waterproof fabric?

This was how I started experimenting, mostly 'cause I'm naturally lazy, but also because I had bought some Camp Dry from Wal-mart and had never used it. I figured it would be a good time to try. I tried to spray the ripstop like an aerosol and then found it in a liquid at Hobby Lobby and tried to dunk and kneed it into the fibers. Neither worked. Using clear sil in the tubes and mineral spirits seems (to me at least) to work the best.

[speyguy]

Okay, I had to try this for myself since I had a bunch of the 1.1 wally world rip stop. I elected to sew it all up first and apply the sil as a last step. I wanted to apply the sil last for a few reasons. First, I just thought it would be a lot less messy and simpler if I could set up the tarp nice and taught to apply the sil mixture. This way I wasn't submerging a bunch of fabric in the mixture and then pulling it all out and having to deal with it that way. Second, I thought that this way I could just apply the sil and seam seal all in one application. I applied it with a sponge applicator and it went right through to the other side.

The nylon definitely takes on a whole new persona and gets darker after the application.

I tried out the line locks on it and so far I like them. It's not a sexy cat tarp but it is a hex cut. Since the application of the sil has cured, I set it up and tested it with the hose and it’s water tight. I think the DIY sil is a great low cost alternative to commercial sil nylon.

[stormcrow]

ok, I am going to do this thing. I have a lot of untreated ripstop that i also got from wallyworld. I have to do SOMETHING with it and I need a big ol two person tarp. I just might give her a go!

Adam

[warbonnetguy]

great, that's how i was thinking to do it as well, make the tarp, set it up and then treat it. did you wipe off the excess after you sponged it on? did you weigh it before and after? glad it worked well for you.



Okay, I had to try this for myself since I had a bunch of the 1.1 wally world rip stop. I elected to sew it all up first and apply the sil as a last step. I wanted to apply the sil last for a few reasons. First, I just thought it would be a lot less messy and simpler if I could set up the tarp nice and taught to apply the sil mixture. This way I wasn't submerging a bunch of fabric in the mixture and then pulling it all out and having to deal with it that way. Second, I thought that this way I could just apply the sil and seam seal all in one application. I applied it with a sponge applicator and it went right through to the other side.

The nylon definitely takes on a whole new persona and gets darker after the application.

I tried out the line locks on it and so far I like them. It's not a sexy cat tarp but it is a hex cut. Since the application of the sil has cured, I set it up and tested it with the hose and it’s water tight. I think the DIY sil is a great low cost alternative to commercial sil nylon.

[speyguy]

great, that's how i was thinking to do it as well, make the tarp, set it up and then treat it. did you wipe off the excess after you sponged it on? did you weigh it before and after? glad it worked well for you.

I did not wipe off the excess. The sponge applicator took care of that on the application side, but there was some excess that got pushed through to the other side that could have been wiped off. When you are applying it, you tend to think the thicker the better. But now that it's done, it's easier to see that it does not need a very thick application to be successful. It just ended up being a little thicker in some spots on the back side.

I didn't think to measure before and after. That would have been smart. Finished product though for a 124" (ridge line) by 100" width is 15oz.

[Splinter]

That's a great looking tarp!!! :boggle: I'm going to start a new tarp in a few weeks and I'm going to try and sponge the sil on instead of dunking (which is what I've done on my two previous tarps). In the two that i've previously done, I've used ~ a baseball sized amount of sil and then thinned. How much did you use? or did you notice?

[tight-wad]

Finished product though for a 124" (ridge line) by 100" width is 15oz.

By my math that equals about 1.57 oz / sq yd. Including hems, thread, tie-outs... pretty close to the 1.3 advertised by commercial syl vendors. Good job.

How did you mix it? A stick and lots of elbow grease, or some kind of blender?

[speyguy]

That's a great looking tarp!!! :boggle: I'm going to start a new tarp in a few weeks and I'm going to try and sponge the sil on instead of dunking (which is what I've done on my two previous tarps). In the two that i've previously done, I've used ~ a baseball sized amount of sil and then thinned. How much did you use? or did you notice?
Thanks. I just eye balled it. Baseball size sounds pretty close. Maybe a little less for me. When I look at the tube it came out of, it's a 10.1 oz tube and I used about 2/3 of that amount. So about 6 to 7 oz and I had a little of the mixture left over. It had a nice thin consistency and went on real nice.

[Splinter]

When I look at the tube it came out of, it's a 10.1 oz tube and I used about 2/3 of that amount. So about 6 to 7 oz and I had a little of the mixture left over. It had a nice thin consistency and went on real nice.

was that enough for one side of the tarp or did it cover both? That amount for me would have done the inside and out of one side...guess that answers my question...you could sponge the outside of both sides with that amount. Common sense is such a wonderful thing.

[speyguy]

By my math that equals about 1.57 oz / sq yd. Including hems, thread, tie-outs... pretty close to the 1.3 advertised by commercial syl vendors. Good job.

How did you mix it? A stick and lots of elbow grease, or some kind of blender?

When I mixed it I just took a piece of bailing wire (you could use a coat hanger) and bent one end into a kind of a "C" or "U" shape at the bottom and put the other end into my cordless drill and used it as a blender. It really made very short work of the mixing.


was that enough for one side of the tarp or did it cover both? That amount for me would have done the inside and out of one side...guess that answers my question...you could sponge the outside of both sides with that amount. Common sense is such a wonderful thing.

I just applied it to one side (the outside). As I mentioned, I had some left over. But in some areas more of it got pushed through, so I took the sponge applicator and spread it around on the inside in those areas. Of course I learned a few things and I think someone else mentioned earlier in this thread that you really don't need as much of it as you might think when you are applying the mixture. But while you are spreading it on, you tend to really want to get it on thick so you can be sure it's water tight. But fight that urge and don't over do it.

[Youngblood]

When I mixed it I just took a piece of bailing wire (you could use a coat hanger) and bent one end into a kind of a "C" or "U" shape at the bottom and put the other end into my cordless drill and used it as a blender. It really made very short work of the mixing.


My favorite technique when I am mixing it thin to brush it on with a foam brush is to use an old glass jar (from jam, relish, etc.) with a tight fitting lid and handle it James Bond style... "Shaken, not stirred".:rolleyes:

[dblhmmck]

Has anyone else used the "Seam Sealer 3" (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___80947)?

I just seam sealed a DIY SpinnTex tarp last night with this stuff. I was amazed at how this water-based sealer spread on so thin (more environmentally friendly too). It only took about 1/4 fluid ounce to seal about 50 linear feet of seams. It made me think that I could pour the entire bottle into a small bowl and paint a large tarp with the 2 ounce contents and a foam brush.

This product does not seem to be silicon based. In small print it admits to containing "aqueous urethane". I've seem other urethane coatings begin to peel off after a few years. This stuff spreads on so thin, I am not sure if it would eventually show the same signs of degradation that thick urethane coatings are prone to have.

I will be trying this product to make some 1.1 ounce nylon water proof fabric sometime in the near future. But it wouldn't be "Silnylon", rather it would be super light urethane coated nylon.

[jeffjenn]

Dbl H, wouldn't that be what this (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/ProductDisplay?memberId=12500226&productId=12390) product is?

[stormcrow]

I just finished treating my poncho/tarp with the silicone/mineral spirits method. Why is it that taking pictures of a project is always more fun to talk about that to do...:confused: I did not take pictures this time. More because I am lame than anything else. I just wanted to do it and it was my first time so I did not know how fast I had to work. Anyway...

It is drying now so when it is finished I will talk more about what I did. I used the watery mixture with foam brush method. It is a little labor intensive but it went on really well. The glass jar (mason type) and wooden paint stir make quick work of the mixture. I thought it did not take much time at all. Hopefully I did not do something wrong. I will be making some more gear with all of this stinking ripstop I have so I WILL make pictures of the process next time.

I really hope this works!

Adam

[JohnH]

I just finished treating my poncho/tarp with the silicone/mineral spirits method. Why is it that taking pictures of a project is always more fun to talk about that to do...:confused: I did not take pictures this time. More because I am lame than anything else. I just wanted to do it and it was my first time so I did not know how fast I had to work. Anyway...

It is drying now so when it is finished I will talk more about what I did. I used the watery mixture with foam brush method. It is a little labor intensive but it went on really well. The glass jar (mason type) and wooden paint stir make quick work of the mixture. I thought it did not take much time at all. Hopefully I did not do something wrong. I will be making some more gear with all of this stinking ripstop I have so I WILL make pictures of the process next time.

I really hope this works!

Adam


Any Update?

[stormcrow]

Sorry I did not update my post. I kind of forgot about it actually...:)

How did things go? They actually went rather well. I treated my poncho and the results were great. I gave it the ol' shower test again and did not have a wet backside for my efforts as I did previously.

A Couple of suggestions. If you are going to treat the fabric after the tarp or poncho is made it is a good idea to keep it pitched tight. I found a couple of spots that dried while touching each other that, when pulled apart, left a visual mark. I do not think this will effect the waterproofness of the poncho, it is just a little noticeable. I can not speak of the durability of this treatment since I have only used it once in actual rain. I cant see why it would not last a while. I have since changed my mind about poncho use (I am going to try to make something like a Packa now). The poncho I made weighs less than 8oz. If someone wants to test/have this piece of gear I will let it go for $20 (sorry...I know this is not the gear swap...:rolleyes: ) It was my first poncho but I think it turned out ok.

Would I do the treatment method again.. Sure I would. I was not THAT hard at all really and it was dirt cheap.

Any more questions just ask.

Adam

[animalcontrol]

Sorry I did not update my post. I kind of forgot about it actually...:)

How did things go? They actually went rather well. I treated my poncho and the results were great. I gave it the ol' shower test again and did not have a wet backside for my efforts as I did previously.

A Couple of suggestions. If you are going to treat the fabric after the tarp or poncho is made it is a good idea to keep it pitched tight. I found a couple of spots that dried while touching each other that, when pulled apart, left a visual mark. I do not think this will effect the waterproofness of the poncho, it is just a little noticeable. I can not speak of the durability of this treatment since I have only used it once in actual rain. I cant see why it would not last a while. I have since changed my mind about poncho use (I am going to try to make something like a Packa now). The poncho I made weighs less than 8oz. If someone wants to test/have this piece of gear I will let it go for $20 (sorry...I know this is not the gear swap...:rolleyes: ) It was my first poncho but I think it turned out ok.

Would I do the treatment method again.. Sure I would. I was not THAT hard at all really and it was dirt cheap.

Any more questions just ask.


Adam
<<Sucker
dimensions of the poncho?

[stormcrow]

Looking back at this thing I think I am letting it go cheap...LOL. I did not do too bad at all. I made this from Joanne fabric ripstop. I took some pictures with my ULA Conduit partially loaded underneath it so you can get any idea of how it looks with a pack. Also, I am 6'2" for comparison in the photos.

The dimensions are 5'x8'10". It has 8 grosgrain tieouts. I ended up using ribbons for attaching the sides of the poncho. It was easier and lighter than other ideas I had. I guess I could have made the pictures smaller...OOOPS.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0169.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0170.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0171.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0174.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0175.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0176.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0177.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0178.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0179.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0180.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/thorwren/hammock%20camping/DIY%20poncho%20Tarp/DSC_0183.jpg

[animalcontrol]

nice job...bringing it with you next week?

[fin]

Yeah, Father Adam. Bring it with you. I'm POSITIVE someone will liberate it from you during the hang!;)

Bless me Father Adam, for I have sinned. It has been 5 months since my last group hang.:lol:

[stormcrow]

LOL. Yeah, the wife thought I looked like a monk too. I will be bringing it with me on the NCT hang. Did I mention I am excited about this one?

Bad news though....Thorwren will not make this one either. Long story but circumstances are beyond our control...:( The stars might line up for is again sometime. I hope we dont have to wait for the Mt Rogers hang for us to go camping/hiking as a couple....sigh. Oh well.

Adam

[Cannibal]

I can't get the "I'm too sexy for my car, to sexy by faaar" song out of my head! :scared::lol:
Nice pics, looks like a good fit! The Packa concept just plain rocks.

[stormcrow]

I can't get the "I'm too sexy for my car, to sexy by faaar" song out of my head! :scared::lol:
Nice pics, looks like a good fit! The Packa concept just plain rocks.

yea, I was thinking about becoming a runway model for some extra cash...;)

anyone catch the pic with the Hammock Forums reference? :D

[Darby]

I was trying to figure it out, but I was clueless. Thanks for the clarification :D

[T-BACK]

Nice Work! It reminds me of another project that I want to try, a hood less poncho. Combined with my Tilley hat I think it would make a good combo for windy conditions. I have quite a bit of Wally World 1.1 nylon and I just might have to give this a try. It's raining a lot here now (thank The Lord) but that will not be a problem with doing this type project as silicone doesn't "dry" but actually needs moisture to cure. This also will be an inexpensive way to try out some new tarps I have designed.

[Fig]

Here's the part I love, your kids don't even acknowledge you are in the room. My kids are exactly the same. Dad has so many goofy projects going on it doesn't even phase them anymore. I could be running through the house on fire and they wouldn't blink.

[stormcrow]

Here's the part I love, your kids don't even acknowledge you are in the room. My kids are exactly the same. Dad has so many goofy projects going on it doesn't even phase them anymore. I could be running through the house on fire and they wouldn't blink.

LOL...Too true! Of course everyone in our house has red hair (except the odd blond kid who is too close to the tv) so some might argue that we are always on fire...:D

Adam

[pineapplenewton]

has anyone tried one of the commercial tent and gear watterproofing sprays i might get one that is disined for that perpose its silicone based and it says to spray (it's a pump spray like on a windex bottle) or paint it on the whole thing leaving a "wet edge" then to wipe off the exses. It says it can do 50 squar feet which should be enough to cover my 10 so i think i might try it any thoughts?

[warbonnetguy]

i think that stuff is too diluted and is more of a water resistence than a true waterproofing

[pineapplenewton]

do you think it would get me through a light rain because i will have a tent with me anyway so it it gets terrible i could go into it.

[pineapplenewton]

i tried it and there is no way i could coat 10 square fet let alown the 50 it said it could so i highly dowt its waterproof but i will let it dry for the time it asked for and test it with my hose gradualy increasing pressure

[warbonnetguy]

i think regular uncoated 1.1 would probably be ok in light rain

[Knighthorse]

This is interesting. They already have appropriately sized chocolate bars. Now does anyone have a line on the 18"x18" graham crackers? S'MORES!!


another way to impregnate is to use vaccume...I impregnate some of the woods I use in my turkey calls and have had some "fun" with different items...such as marshmellows...ever seen one the size of a coffee can? LOL....anyway...you could do the same thing with the fabric...this would insure even and thourough impregnation. I also would suggest the tight pull and rag/sponge for removal of excess.

[GorploafChalupa]

I went thru all 14 pages in this thread, and didn't see anything about using "Brick & Tile Silicone Sealer". It's used for sealing porous tile or brick for exterior use.

The stuff comes in gallons. I could imagine dumping it into a bucket, stuffing in the finished tarp, and letting it sit overnight. Next day, hang the tarp up to dry, and pour the excess sealer back into the original container.

Anybody tried this?

GC

[MacEntyre]

Anybody tried this?
That is an excellent idea!

[gargoyle]

Nice idea GLC. That should work, someone got to do some testing.

Also, how about using a five gallon bucket with a resealable lid. Put a air gauge fitting on its lid and using it for a pressure vessl. Not alot of pressure, say 5-10 psi, but enough to increase bleed thru you would like to see in the fabric.

Or take it the opposite direction and vaccum the 5-gal. bucket. Infuse the silicone under negative pressure??

any thoughts??

[MacEntyre]

...a pressure vessel.
...
Or ... Infuse the silicone under negative pressure??
Pressure will not affect the liquid phase. If you immerse the fabric in a silicon solution, that liquid and it's contents will not be affected by the pressure of the vapor phase above it.

/engineer mode off

[Tedinski]

True 'nuff, MacEntyre... but vacuum is frequently used to remove (almost) all air bubbles from the materials that are immersed.

Tiny bubbles expand due to reduced pressure, separate from the material, and are removed from the material to be coated.

[ccathcart72]

Just wondering if anyone has thought about trying Nixwax? This stuff comes in a lot of different formulas and can either be sprayed on or used in a washing machine to water proof frabics. I have not tried it but was thinking it might work.

Here is a link to one of their products for tents.

http://www.nikwax-usa.com/en-us/products/productdetail.php?productid=502

Just thought I would throw in another option to this mix.

Chris

[warbonnetguy]

i believe nikwax makes thing water resistent rather than waterproof

[cwayman1]

You could probably make some interesting colour shifts by using coloured silicone too...

what about mixing up a couple of small batches, adding a color to them, and then making your OWN camo sil?
--just buying the 1.1 camo ripstop might be easier, but this thread IS about making an already easily available fabric an MYOG project :D.

as well, I can never can seem to find a definite ratio of silicone:mineral spirits. 1:5, 1:3? Anyone have a dead-set formula that works? Thanks a ton!

cwayman1

[wanderingfarandnear]

I'm not sure how heavy it makes fabric or if it degrades fabric over a long time, but when I was in high school, I did a science fair project of using different waterproofers on ripstop to see which would work the best. Thompson's watersealer for decks actually was by far the best. It says it's not made for fabric so it might degrade it, but short term it worked great and got me third place.

[Albert Skye]

I'm not sure how heavy it makes fabric or if it degrades fabric over a long time, but when I was in high school, I did a science fair project of using different waterproofers on ripstop to see which would work the best. Thompson's watersealer for decks actually was by far the best. It says it's not made for fabric so it might degrade it, but short term it worked great and got me third place.

My father used to apply it to his felt hat when he worked as a cowboy. It made the hat waterproof but also very stiff; so stiff that he used it as a hard hat of sorts, for protection from branches and such when chasing stray cattle out of the bush. I've not had much experience with it but I wonder how much elasticity it retains (i.e., how will it behave when the fabric stretches?).

[Tedinski]

I've been reading here in HF about using mineral spirits along w/ silicone. I've never used mineral spirits, but used to use white gas frequently as a thinner for silicone caulking. GE 20-year clear, in fact.

I'd waterproof my groundcloths for reenactment events -- others would be watching the water ooze through their canvas groundcloths, while mine coulda been used as a boat!

white gas dries very quickly, and worked great for penetrating the cloth.

Need I even say it... NO SPARKS, and DON'T DO THIS INDOORS! A single "forgotten" pilot light 2 rooms away could ruin your whole afternoon! :ROFL:

[No_p55]

Has anyone thought about trying this with LEXEL (http://www.sashcocontractor.com/Home_Improvement/Lexel.aspx). I know its not a silicone but its some pretty tough stuff.

Just a thought.

[TOB9595]

I've been reading here in HF about using mineral spirits along w/ silicone. I've never used mineral spirits, but used to use white gas frequently as a thinner for silicone caulking. GE 20-year clear, in fact.

I'd waterproof my groundcloths for reenactment events -- others would be watching the water ooze through their canvas groundcloths, while mine coulda been used as a boat!

white gas dries very quickly, and worked great for penetrating the cloth.

Need I even say it... NO SPARKS, and DON'T DO THIS INDOORS! A single "forgotten" pilot light 2 rooms away could ruin your whole afternoon! :ROFL:

Tedinski, What was your process of soaking and wiping? if any?
Tom

[Tedinski]

Tedinski, What was your process of soaking and wiping? if any?
Tom

Silicone to Coleman fuel: 1:5
Apply with a big paint brush
squeegie off with a rubber blade (I used a $1.50 glass squeegie from Big Lots)

It took a lot of silicone to properly coat a tarp... maybe 3/4 of a caulking tube. These were heavy-duty canvas tarps, and soaked up the mix like a sponge. I've never used the mineral spirits for cutting silicone, but I would expect white gas to dry much more quickly.

My friend tried copying the technique using regular unleaded gasoline, but the result was less than spectacular, and the scent of gasoline stayed with the tarp for a LoOoOnG time!

I wonder if you could use a small air sprayer to apply the solution evenly and thinly to 1.1 nylon? You could mix the EXACT amount of silicone you wish to use (by weight) with enough solvent to coat the whole piece of fabric, then go at it! A standard HVLP sprayer should be safe to use IF NO IGNITION SOURCE IS PRESENT! I would worry even about an electric air compressor... perhaps use a large can of compressed air?

As stated above, however, you can buy SilNylon without much difficulty! Personally I'd only consider coating my own if I found a specific pattern/print that wasn't available pre-coated...

[GaHammockGuy]

Okay...

I am by no means a chemist and don't like to mix things I know nothing about. Now I will experiment with spices and I will add butter to just about anything..... and of you can grill it I AM IN!!! If I could grill a peanut butter and jelly sandwich I would do it in a heartbeat, but I suspect the jelly would oooooze out all over the place and make a big ol' mess.

So... I was trying to avoid the mixing of the silicone and mineral spirits and found an option that might work. RainEX puts out a product that you can spray onto your automobile's windshields to help the water "bead off" which is (at Autozone) $7-8 for a about 8-10 oz. That would be an expensive process to test it on a 10x10 tarp.

They also make a product that you pour into your vehicle's windshield washer container that works about the same way. It is $3 for a gallon jug. This is more cost-appropriate so I gave it a shot.

The short version is that it failed. miserably. :(

To see the long version check out my YouTube video and watch.

So It looks like I will be peaking out side of my comfort zone and will try the silicone and mineral spirits method this weekend. I will test a small splotch of fabric like in the above example so if I ruin it, it would not be my home-made tarp that I am sooooo proud of.

[canoebie]

I went thru all 14 pages in this thread, and didn't see anything about using "Brick & Tile Silicone Sealer". It's used for sealing porous tile or brick for exterior use.

The stuff comes in gallons. I could imagine dumping it into a bucket, stuffing in the finished tarp, and letting it sit overnight. Next day, hang the tarp up to dry, and pour the excess sealer back into the original container.

Anybody tried this?

GC

This stuff looks interesting: http://www.frogskin.net/index.html

[franksb255]

Hey check out my video about this, I've tried silicone and gasoline and it worked. Coffee grounds remove the bad smells. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzR9-HASSIA

[JohnSawyer]

This stuff looks interesting: http://www.frogskin.net/index.html

Ugh!

Sorry, not available in the following states:
California, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island.

That's IT! I'm leaving California... It's getting so bad, I can't even walk down a sidewalk without some restriction, or safety warning.... Next thing you know, I'll get a ticket in my yard for not wearing proper closed-toed shoes on the "dangerous grass." I yearn for the days when you could just go buy a gallon of some nasty solvent without some jackass politician trying to regulate it because I might hurt myself... Not that I'd use VOC's for anything other than experimenting with making SIL :) ... <off soapbox> BTW: The "greener" mineral spirits from home depot (lower VOC's) dissolve silicone fairly well....


It's a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for!!!! -- Will Rogers (always trust a cowboy!)

[turnerminator]

I just searched through this thread and noticed that water based silicone sealant has not been mentioned(not the acrylic stuff called silicon). Would it not be a lot easier for you guys, as it means not getting smelly VOC's everywhere and replacing rollers/brushes for every coat and being dead easy to thin down...........just a thought.......

[MacEntyre]

...water based silicone sealant ...
Interesting idea!
Brand name?
Source?
Link?
:confused:

[turnerminator]

http://www.gib.co.nz/gib-aquaseal/

Not sure if this brand is stateside, but someone should be supplying. :)

[oldgringo]

Interesting idea!
Brand name?
Source?
Link?
:confused:

A search turned up just one, made in NZ.

[turnerminator]

ELCH make one too. ELCH used to be known as Rhodia-they invented silicon sealant. I will eat my hammock if you cant get this water based stuff in the states.

[oldgringo]

I will eat my hammock if you cant get this water based stuff in the states.

This could be big fun.:lol:

[MacEntyre]

I will eat my hammock if you cant get this water based stuff in the states.
Deadline is man's best friend... when do we lay the cloth, so to speak?

[canoebie]

Let me know when you find it, in doing a search I am having a hard time. I would love to use this as an alternative to spray and I ordered a bunch of that camo 1.1 uncoated from scittlefield and would like to find a way to treat it that is more environmentally responsible.

[cwayman1]

Ugh!

Sorry, not available in the following states:
California, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island.



...and that's why Tennessee is better ;):lol::D

[cwayman1]

as well, are there any restrictions temp-wise when it come to this concoction working? I've got a tarp that needs seam-sealing, and I think the highs for the next few days fluxuate only between about 40- 50*. Any restrictions on that? Thanks

[JohnSawyer]

I looked at the brochure for Aquaseal... If you look at their other products, they specifically say "Water cleanup" but aquaseal does not... hmmm....

Do you have a tube of this to read the directions?

[turnerminator]

I used some on site about 2 years ago, but as it was in a customers premises, i didnt mess with it and binned the tube. Havent used it since either.
The parent company for elch pro is Henkel. Just did a search and found out its called OSI Pro in the US. They also own loctite and some other major brands. I would have thought these would be good people to speak to about it. I will keep looking for you.

[GaHammockGuy]

Ready to try this out.

It is raining here is Atlanta so I may not get to the test today, but I have the stuff I need. I bought one tube of the clear Silicone and a can (iqt. I think) of Mineral Spirits.

I have an orange Home Depot bucket with a lid that i plan on using.

I will start with about 1/2 of the tube and start mixing the Mineral Spirits until i like the consistence of a liquid that I like.

I plan on soaking it for about .... maybe .... 30 minutes.

then i will hang the tarp, drip dry it and wipe off any remainder liquid and let it try for a day or so in my garage (depending on the weather)

I would love some recommendations on the soaking time.
I plan on mixing enough to make it a nice liquidy mix... not too thin and not too thick.

[warbonnetguy]

sounds like an ok plan.

i'd consider wringing out any excess as soon as you pull it out of the bucket, pitch it or hang it and start wiping off the excess immediatly. after it dries you won't get any excess off, it will all be stuck on there for good

[TOB9595]

I'll be interested if you have enough spirits and silicon. I watched Franksb??? video from post 154 and he indicated the need for more liquid than I, at first, thought.
Good vid I thought.Informative

Good luck with the silnyling
Tom

[GaHammockGuy]

sounds like an ok plan.

i'd consider wringing out any excess as soon as you pull it out of the bucket,



Good point

I need to have my ridgeline ready to attach to it and start wiping ASAP.... ringing out and rubbing off as much excess as possible...THEN hang up and continue wiping...

the tarp is 10X10ISH and will be tough to manage.... put I will do my best.

[Albert Skye]

Soaking seems wasteful and I'm doubtful that it's necessary (but that comes without specific personal experience).

I'd pitch the tarp and paint it, rubbing it in as necessary. If the viscosity is low enough it should saturate the fabric easily, and I imagine this would consume at least an order of magnitude less silicone mixture, not to mention much less mess. :)

[Hawk-eye]

How's the smell after this has dried?

[GaHammockGuy]

Soaking seems wasteful and I'm doubtful that it's necessary (but that comes without specific personal experience).

I'd pitch the tarp and paint it, rubbing it in as necessary.

I had thou0ght about taking this route, but my only concern is that since the tarp is so large (10x10) that the mineral spirits would evaporate giving me a thicker concentration of mixture near the end of the painting.

The last area that I paint would have a different level of saturation than the first area I paint. if I soak it, the level would be more equal across the board.... um... across the tarp as it were. :laugh:

But then again I have not figured the rate of evaporation against the time needed to paint which I think the formula would be:

e/s + (s-P) + D

e= rate of evaporation
s= saturation level
P = painting time
D = Drying time

LOL
Dontcha just love math? :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

Any rocket scientist out there with a more accurate formula????

[Albert Skye]

I had thou0ght about taking this route, but my only concern is that since the tarp is so large (10x10) that the mineral spirits would evaporate giving me a thicker concentration of mixture near the end of the painting.

Good point; maybe Frawg will crunch some numbers. :)

In any case, I suppose one could carefully fold and roll the tarp to fit into a cylindrical can; that would reduce waste. One could even cap it and shake. Perhaps easier to squeeze out when rolled up too.

Or get some friends over for an ultra-fast tarp painting party! ;)

[GaHammockGuy]

...Or get some friends over for an ultra-fast tarp painting party! ;)

HEY I LIKE THAT......

ANY excuse to have a party.

Tarp Painting party at my house
Bring your own alcohol stoves and freeze dried food and clifbars.

I have some trees outback so if you get to where you cant drive.... um.... bring your own hammock as well.

Hey Shug!!! no need to bring the cold-weather gear... its only 40 here now and the low will only get down to 25 tonight. so leave the down at home...


I actually just finished testing a small splotch of nylon and am letting it dry now. I will post the results on youtube tonight or tomorrow so keep an eye out for the video.

[ikemouser]

I used silicone caulking to treat heavy paper mailing tubes to seal and make waterproof. Worked great.

Mixed 3 to 1 low odor mineral spirits to silicone caulking by weight. Wasn't real accurate, didn't need to be. Mixed it up in small batches using only 1 oz of silicone caulking. Found out that a little bit goes a long ways.

I've read where commercial 1.1 oz silnyl is actually 1.3 oz per yard. So figure 0.2 oz per yard silicone. That's 5 square yards per oz of silicone. The JRB 8x8 tarp is slightly over 6 square yards, so 1 oz of silicone will just about do the whole tarp. Figure 1.5 oz would be more than enough.

As warbonnetguy says it takes a long time to mix it thoroughly. Once mixed I simply used those foam brushes to paint the inside and outside of the tube. Hung in the basement to dry. Took about 24 to 48 hours to cure really good. Tried a second coat on one, but the second coat ended up peeling off in some places. The first coat penetrated far enough in the heavy and dense paper and prevented the second coat from penetrating real good.

Did the same on some heavy cordura fabric. Same mixture. 2 coats worked real well. Again just mixed and painted using foam brushes and allowed 48 hours to cure thoroughly.

Water just beads up and rolls right off.

With the low odor mineral spirits, neither my girl friend (whose nose is very senistive) nor I could smell anything in the house at all. Also, don't worry about time. It took a long time, many hours, for it to dry and cure. Even the excess left in the tuna fish mixing can.

Can this be done on a backpack, or would it be better to just buy nikwax.

[cwayman1]

Can this be done on a backpack, or would it be better to just buy nikwax.

I don't see why not. You WOULD want to make sure that as it dries you keep it from folding in on itself. If it does, you will end up with 1) the fabric sticking to itself and 2) uneven sil coating. Other than that, go for it, just keep it held open and up -maybe coat hanger circle frame? Update us if you do!

-Clint

[KerMegan]

this is excellent news- I have a venerable pack (Yak-pak; anybody remember those?) that has lost it's internal PU coating- and I was leery of taking naked cordura out where it might get rained on.
Yea, new project !
KM

I think it might be adviseable to turn the pack inside out for this procedure- then stuff it full of shipping peants or the like..and finally, hang in Garage to dry/cure.

[cwayman1]

- then stuff it full of shipping peanuts or the like...

I might be wary of packing peanuts. Don't they melt, or disintegrate or something when they get wet :eek::scared:? Or so I've heard... could be completely wrong :confused:. I know you mentioned "or the like" and I think stuffing it to keep it open might be a good idea. I am just saying be careful what it is stuffed with :)

[cwayman1]

Just thought of this as I clicked "post"... stuffing it with something MIGHT cause an uneven coating/impregnation on the fabric-- some silicone could soak through the fabric and, instead of staying in the fabric, keep going through and get on the inner stuffing material. food for thought

[ikemouser]

i think that stuff is too diluted and is more of a water resistence than a true waterproofing

Are you speaking of nikwax? I was gonna buy some, seems to be the best, but if you think it aint i wont waste my money.

[GaHammockGuy]

We have a winner!!!
My sample test went wonderfully! I had some video of the process but messed it up, but will post what I have soon enough.

The results are as follows:

The fabric soaked up the mixture without any issues.
It cleaned up nicely and dried quickly.

And to answer Hawk-eye's question:

How's the smell after this has dried?

Immediatly after the initial drying period, there was a small odor from the mineral spirits, but by morning ALL the odor was gone.

I used a small bowl and a rubber band to keep the tarp on the bowl with a small pocket and poured about a cup of water into the divot.

after one hour, no liquid had leaked through the tarp. and the water beaded up nicely and rolled off of the tarp that was hanging at an angle (watch the video) and I left it all night.

at 0700 this morning NO WATER HAD LEAKED THROUGH THE FABRIC!!!

I would consider that fabric water-proof.

now all I have to do is apply what I have learned to my home-made tarp. I will post pics and videos of the tarp as well once I water-proof it.

[KerMegan]

I might be wary of packing peanuts. Don't they melt, or disintegrate or something when they get wet :eek::scared:? Or so I've heard... could be completely wrong :confused:. I know you mentioned "or the like" and I think stuffing it to keep it open might be a good idea. I am just saying be careful what it is stuffed with :)

there are at least two kinds of peanuts- poly/styro/whatever foam, and the corn cellulose puffs- the corn ones actually started life as a failed snack food, or so I heard- they are the ones that dissolve when wet- the others are the enviromentalists' bane- so keeping them out of the land fill to reuse should be a good thing.

not too worried about soaking through to the fabrics exterior, as it is blessed (?) with the remnants of the provious coating, so if it Works patchily, i can always do a second coat on the outside to even things up, or so I hope.
this is more of a plan at the moment than a project- still need to mix up a test batch of sil goo...
KM

[phatpenguin]

Looking forward to your video footage Chef. I watched the other two tests and it was pretty interesting. I am thinking about ordering some nylon from Scott Littlefield. The olive drab was great, the camo sounds sweet too.

[sclittlefield]

Looking forward to your video footage Chef. I watched the other two tests and it was pretty interesting. I am thinking about ordering some nylon from Scott Littlefield. The olive drab was great, the camo sounds sweet too.

So far, all samples of this Woodland Camo 1.1oz ripstop nylon have been very breathable, not calendared. They would soak up a mixture of DIY Silcoat pretty well. Could possibly be worth trying to make your own camo sil with.

I just wish one of the major manufacturers would make actual camo sil... I know a lot of people would buy it up! I"ll continue to put pressure on my suppliers to move in that direction. :)

[ikemouser]

We have a winner!!!
My sample test went wonderfully! I had some video of the process but messed it up, but will post what I have soon enough.

The results are as follows:

The fabric soaked up the mixture without any issues.
It cleaned up nicely and dried quickly.

And to answer Hawk-eye's question:


Immediatly after the initial drying period, there was a small odor from the mineral spirits, but by morning ALL the odor was gone.

I used a small bowl and a rubber band to keep the tarp on the bowl with a small pocket and poured about a cup of water into the divot.

after one hour, no liquid had leaked through the tarp. and the water beaded up nicely and rolled off of the tarp that was hanging at an angle (watch the video) and I left it all night.

at 0700 this morning NO WATER HAD LEAKED THROUGH THE FABRIC!!!

I would consider that fabric water-proof.

now all I have to do is apply what I have learned to my home-made tarp. I will post pics and videos of the tarp as well once I water-proof it.

Awesome, i look forward to applying his process to my raingear, tarp, backpack as needed. THANKS ALOT WARBONNETGUY!

[warbonnetguy]

FWIW, anything is only waterproof to a certain amount of pressure, a small puddle of water in a depression is hardly putting any pressure on the fabric. my uncoated dwr would hold a small volume of water in the same way, but it's not waterproof. a falling raindrop has some force behind it. it's best to test for adequate waterproofness under the pressure of a garden hose or shower head and see if it mists through or not. seeing as how it's been treated with sil, then it may well be waterproof now, but testing something that way may not give accurate results.

[warbonnetguy]

Are you speaking of nikwax? I was gonna buy some, seems to be the best, but if you think it aint i wont waste my money.


i was speaking of the wash-in or spray-on treatments. they work well for giving a water resistent treatment to fabric, or restoring it to something that's worn off, it will make the water bead, but isn't meat to turn uncoated fabric into a tarp.

[jeffjenn]

Not sure how accurate this truly is, but for a quick waterproof test I put a few drops of water on the fabric in question & rub it with my finger. I usually put a dry paper towel underneath to detect water seepage. Uncoated needs no rubbing it bleeds through right away. Most of the DWR samples will start bleeding through with 10-20 back & forth rubs of medium pressure. Waterproof PU & silicone coated don't bleed through even with 50+ heavy strokes.

[GaHammockGuy]

okay guys... here is what I really think.

Sure the tarp is more than likely NOT waterproof 100% but what I was trying to demonstrate is the following:

All tests being the same here are the results:

non-treated nylon held water for about a second...

nylon treated with one coat of Scotch Guard held water for a few seconds longer

nylon treated with two coat of Scotch Guard on the front and one on the back held water a minute or so.

nylon treated with method of of dissolving silicone caulk into mineral spirits held water OVER NIGHT....

I mean come on..... compared t othe initial test........ it's WATERPROOF.

all in all I am happy with the tests....

once I treat my 10X10 and set it up, I will give it a more realistic test with the sprinkler or a bucket or something....

Even if it is not 100% waterproof, i am still happy with the results of simply dissolving silicone caulk into mineral spirits and then soaking the fabric in the mixture..... I learned something new this week so its a good week...

oh by the way..... the video is up

[TZBrown]

this is excellent news- I have a venerable pack (Yak-pak; anybody remember those?) that has lost it's internal PU coating- and I was leery of taking naked cordura out where it might get rained on.
Yea, new project !
KM

I think it might be adviseable to turn the pack inside out for this procedure- then stuff it full of shipping peants or the like..and finally, hang in Garage to dry/cure.

Probably should pre test the reaction of the packing peanuts to the solvent first. If using white gas It WILL create a mess, mineral spirits may be OK. Possibly use a large plastic bag inside the pack and then fill with the peanuts before coating.

I have used this method on food bags and it works well, soak the bags in the mix, stuff in the filler bag and hang, wipe off excess.

[sclittlefield]

Another good test that shows the speed of water seepage through the fabric is to take a yard and fill it with a gallon+ of water, then suspend the bag o' liquid (I do this in the tub). The weight of that gallon+ gives adequate water pressure over a sustained time frame to show how waterproof the fabric really is. If it holds to your satisfaction on that test, you should be good to go on a tarp. That said, a garden hose / shower head test is also great - I'd recommend doing both.

[stoikurt]

Watched the video. There's no way you can put that kind of pressure on a hanging tarp to squeegee out as much extra moisture as needed. I suggest saving up newspapers to have enough for several layers this and cover your driveway or some other concrete pad large enough to open up your whole tarp. Then you should be able to get on it to squeegee with pressure.

[jeffjenn]

After watching your video, I have to wonder if you wiped too much away. I understand it worked for your testing so far, but how much silicone really got to stay on/in the fabric? You really gave it a good wipedown. Is this the "common practice" for wiping off the excess? Really glad to see videos on this by the way! Thanks!!

[GaHammockGuy]

Watched the video. There's no way you can put that kind of pressure on a hanging tarp to squeegee out as much extra moisture as needed. I suggest saving up newspapers to have enough for several layers this and cover your driveway or some other concrete pad large enough to open up your whole tarp. Then you should be able to get on it to squeegee with pressure.

Well actually I wasnt going to hang it and then squeegee it I was going to squeze it out as I transfered the tarp from one bucket into the next and then onto a pile of paper and just squeeze it and over and over.....

But I like the squeegee idea. Maybe I can get enough paper from neighbours and such...

Now to AutoZone to get a squeegee

[GaHammockGuy]

After watching your video, I have to wonder if you wiped too much away. I understand it worked for your testing so far, but how much silicone really got to stay on/in the fabric? You really gave it a good wipedown. Is this the "common practice" for wiping off the excess? Really glad to see videos on this by the way! Thanks!!

I was a virgin at the time. It was my first shot. I put a lot of pressure in hopes of PUSHING the silicone into the fabric and to wipe off any excess that my glob up and be unsightly... I didnt take into concideration that I may be removing some... perhaps with my full-size tarp, I may gently wipe off the excess and let the rest dry into the fabric.

[warbonnetguy]

Another good test that shows the speed of water seepage through the fabric is to take a yard and fill it with a gallon+ of water, then suspend the bag o' liquid (I do this in the tub). The weight of that gallon+ gives adequate water pressure over a sustained time frame to show how waterproof the fabric really is. If it holds to your satisfaction on that test, you should be good to go on a tarp. That said, a garden hose / shower head test is also great - I'd recommend doing both.

good point, with enough water weight, it will have enough pressure behind it.

[stoikurt]

May have missed it earlier, but what kind of feel and weight increase is their with DIY Sil?
I know real Sil has a slick wax papery feel and is .1 to .2 ounces heavier for 1.1 ounce nylon. When I seam sealed my tarp it has a rubbery feel and it's best to rub powder on it after it dries. Of course that may be from using a thicker solution.

[GaHammockGuy]

May have missed it earlier, but what kind of feel and weight increase is their with DIY Sil?
I know real Sil has a slick wax papery feel and is .1 to .2 ounces heavier for 1.1 ounce nylon. When I seam sealed my tarp it has a rubbery feel and it's best to rub powder on it after it dries. Of course that may be from using a thicker solution.

I did not weigh the test fabric, but I plan on weighing the tarp. I have it in a stuff sac and have scales that can measure down to the 1/8oz so we should get some accurate weight changes.

It is snowing bigt ime here (in ATL GA) which is very odd. we are under 3-4 inches now and have lost power twice. so the tarp will have to wait till it warms up and drys up a bit. maybe next week.

i have a new camera JVC and am having issues with transferring the video to my camera in a format that I can use Windows movie maker.

if anyone has any thoughts I would love to hear them. otherwise I will take this issue to another thread.

[Strapped-4-Cache]

Maybe I can get enough paper from neighbours and such...

Wait... You live in the Atlanta area and you need to go to neighbors to get additional sheets of newspaper? One Sunday Journal/Constitution should probably cover an entire driveway. :D

Not sure why, but we don't even have a subscription and we have two local papers delivered to us. I guess the advertisers pay for them, 'cause we sure don't.

[GaHammockGuy]

Wait... You live in the Atlanta area and you need to go to neighbors to get additional sheets of newspaper? One Sunday Journal/Constitution should probably cover an entire driveway. :D

Not sure why, but we don't even have a subscription and we have two local papers delivered to us. I guess the advertisers pay for them, 'cause we sure don't.

:lol::lol:

I'm not even going to PAY for the ATL JC.... :lol:.... but my neighbor gets it EVERY.... SINGLE...DAY..... so I will save my $4.50.


Yeah I am that cheap.... :cool:

[MondayHopscotch]

So I'm getting ready to try making some sil myself, I have everything besides the ripstop -- which brings me to my question (that is slightly off topic.... deal with it).

How easy is it to identify ripstop when it has a pattern (ex. Digital Camo print). i stopped by wally world today to check the bargain bin and they had 5 bolts of some camo print nylon, but I couldn't decisively tell if it was ripstop. I would assume it would be fairly obvious what with the checkerboard lines running through it, but I couldnt tell through the print.

[Trout]

Ripstop doesn't really fray on the edges. The only way I've been able to tell is by having guaranteed ripstop and fake ripstop. The difference is very obvious once you have something to compare. You can purchase samples from cottage fabric supplies to know the diff. in person.

[MondayHopscotch]

Well I guess then my question becomes, if it's not ripstop, and its just regular old nylon -- What is the strength difference in applications such as stuffsacks, or in the case of making my own silnylon, a tarp?

[JohnSawyer]

You should be able to flip the pattern over and see the weave better. Most of the camo I've seen at 5 different walmarts was not even nylon.

Even in camo, though, the ripstop pattern is pretty noticeable.

From a durability standpoint, when you drag a piece of ripstop over a rock, and wear a hole in it, the hole won't (generally) grow, where non-ripstop will tear and begin it's downward spiral...

That said, I have 2 stuff sacks (one for my whisperlite stove) that I made over 25 years ago from heavy cotton fabric. (****, I must be getting old!) and they're still going strong. It all depends on the abuse the material is going to take, and the load it's going to be under.

A non-ripstop stuff sack under no load, even with a hole in it would last forever, but a hammock made from non-ripstop would spontaneously fail with a small tear under your butt... :scared: So for a tarp, non-ripstop would be a bad idea, unless it was used in the best of conditions (aka no wind, not stretched too tight, etc.) It could last for years as a tarp until the first big wind comes along that exploits a small hole or imperfection...

From a strength perspective, the strength should be similar, it just won't be as durable...

[moytoy]

So I'm getting ready to try making some sil myself, I have everything besides the ripstop -- which brings me to my question (that is slightly off topic.... deal with it).

How easy is it to identify ripstop when it has a pattern (ex. Digital Camo print). i stopped by wally world today to check the bargain bin and they had 5 bolts of some camo print nylon, but I couldn't decisively tell if it was ripstop. I would assume it would be fairly obvious what with the checkerboard lines running through it, but I couldnt tell through the print.

You can go into a Jo Ann Fabric shop, I buy rip/stop there all the time in Fl. I'm showing an address in Denver at, 2530 S Colorado Blvd. It will be labled ripstop nylon. It's not sil tho.

[MondayHopscotch]

Thanks for the good info. I'm still new to ripstop. Only worked with cotton and canvas.


You can go into a Jo Ann Fabric shop, I buy rip/stop there all the time in Fl. I'm showing an address in Denver at, 2530 S Colorado Blvd. It will be labled ripstop nylon. It's not sil tho.

I know of two places I can get ripstop if i want to pay full price for it ;)

The joanne that I live by has ripstop, i just dont know what weight it is.

The stuff my hammock is currently made of I bought at a different fabric store and it was labeled as 1.9oz. My guess is that the joanne stuff is the same, but i've never seen 1.1oz so i'm not sure how much of a visual difference there is.

I also wanted to go with wally ripstop because I want to be ok with messing up my first attempt (or two, haha) being as I wouldn't have invested very much money in it.

[Knotty]

Sealed the ridgeline seam with Silnet last week and last night I hung the tarp in heavy rain and wind to better test how well the DIY sil worked.

Good news is the tarp stayed totally dry on the underside.

Bad news is I still got some drips from the ridgeline seam which was surprising because I sealed the topside and used quite a bit.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15318

[Skookum]

That is good news. I redo mine tomorrow.

What type of seam did you use for the ridgeline? Did you run grossgrain down the ridgeline seam afterward??

[GW Sears]

I just dug out my old Vietnam-era mil-surplus poncho. It was dusty and filthy, so I decided to wash it. I discovered that the waterproof coating is coming off in strips.

I am thinking about peeling off as much of this coating as possible, and then giving the uncovered portions the sil-nylon treatment. I don't expect to get perfect results, but I've nothing to lose but the cost the materials and a little time.

Anyone have any thoughts or comments? I have a nagging feeling that there's something about this project I don't know that is about to bite me.

[Running Feather]

I just dug out my old Vietnam-era mil-surplus poncho. It was dusty and filthy, so I decided to wash it. I discovered that the waterproof coating is coming off in strips.

I am thinking about peeling off as much of this coating as possible, and then giving the uncovered portions the sil-nylon treatment. I don't expect to get perfect results, but I've nothing to lose but the cost the materials and a little time.

Anyone have any thoughts or comments? I have a nagging feeling that there's something about this project I don't know that is about to bite me.

Just have everything ready before you start. Cleanup is half the project. I just made a 10x12 tarp and I'll test it's success after sewing.

[utilisateur]

Maybe you could coat the now uncoated side to get full coverage and not have to worry about the spots where you cant get the old urethane off ?!?

[MacEntyre]

I don't know how I missed this, but I just learned that in recent years, silnylon makers had to stop using whatever solvent they were using... now they use polyurethane as part of the solvent for making silnylon!

Anybody know anything about that? :confused:

[Knotty]

That is good news. I redo mine tomorrow.

What type of seam did you use for the ridgeline? Did you run grossgrain down the ridgeline seam afterward??

The grosgrain ribbon is inside the ridge seam.

[sclittlefield]

I don't know how I missed this, but I just learned that in recent years, silnylon makers had to stop using whatever solvent they were using... now they use polyurethane as part of the solvent for making silnylon!

Anybody know anything about that? :confused:

This is partly true. There is a more recent move in Silnylon manufacturing that is a "proprietary" blend of silicone and "other" (likely PU). It works very well. The Treebark Brown material I use is a Cordura fabric with this type of impregnation.

That said - most Silnylon manufacturing is striaght silicone.

There is also a third kind that's gotten a lot of attention, usually called "Ultra-Sil" (different from Ultrasil, which is pure silicone). Ultra-Sil is sil coated on one side, and PU coated on the other side (so they can tape the seams). Sea-to-Summit is making stuff sacks with it, as well as some other products. It is not, however (as far as I've been able to find - still looking), something that you can just buy from a distributor. It's made special for the "big box" gear makers. I'm all ears if anyone finds a source for the raw fabric!

[PuckerFactor]

The RainShed (http://www.therainshed.com/) has UltraSil (http://www.therainshed.com/fabrics/CtdRipTaff.htm), apparently. I've ordered several things from them, and they're extremely helpful on the phone.

Acer

[MacEntyre]

...most Silnylon manufacturing is striaght silicone.
It must be delivered with a solvent, though. I'm just curious... it doesn't really matter. Us chemical types sometimes care more about the solvent than the solvate!

[GorploafChalupa]

[...]
I know of two places I can get ripstop if i want to pay full price for it ;)

The joann that I live by has ripstop, i just dont know what weight it is.

The stuff my hammock is currently made of I bought at a different fabric store and it was labeled as 1.9oz. My guess is that the joanne stuff is the same, but i've never seen 1.1oz so i'm not sure how much of a visual difference there is.
[...]


A few things about Joann:

I bought some ripstop from them and weighed it. It was 1.9 ounce stuff. It was available in about 6-7 solid colors. List price is $7 per linear yard of 60-inch stuff. 50% off coupons are almost always available. Google for them and print them yourself.


Best Regards,
GC

[d-p]

Just found this thread and probably missed how the factories impregnate silicone information in the middle somewhere ... but here goes.

The Chinese factory I'm talking to about a silicone/polyester weighing finished close to 1.3 oz sq yd "dip" their fabrics and then run the silicone dipped fabric through a wringer/sqeegee of some sort and then into a drying oven.

Hopefully the USA market will soon have sil/poly. I'm asking for a thread smaller than 30-30 and this just might put sil/poly close to 1.0 Hopefully this fabric will sell at close to $8 - $9 a yard.

I have NO idea why all silicone is applied only to nylon other than incremental up cost.

Also, we are preparing to have a mill produce a fabric similar to Spinntex EXP that will be 30% less retail. Hopefully it will come thru at $11 -$12 a yard.

Ah yes ... progress

Anyone interested in fabrics like the two above, send GramMan your address and I'll put you on our possible customers list ...

It will be a while tho as we have not ordered yet. Still negotiating ... Looking at Spring for a possible in-house date.

GramMan
dpengineering

[GrayDog]

I did a quick search and found this...

http://www.scuba.com/scuba-gear-247/031959/Trident-Liquid-Silicone.html

Don't know how well it would work, but might be worth a try.

[Knotty]

I believe that stuff is meant to stay liquid and act as a lube. You need to use a silicone product that will cure.

[lonetracker]

does any one who has done this in the past have any long term observations to add.still working,will do it again,not worth it,if i do it again i will do it this way,ect.

i recently did a tarp.i mixed 5 to 1 mineral spirits by volume to my silicone.i used the dunking in a bucket technique.i ended up doing it twice as i think the first time i did not coat completly.i was getting some misting in heavy rain.make sure you pull it out and unfold it and dunk it back in a couple times for more even coating.i also had to do the seams with a heavyer mix.
the second time i did it i found it much easier to mix it ahead of time in a 64 oz juice jug(allmost perfect size for a 5 to 1 mix with a whole tube of silicone.).like so.put some medal bits like washers,ball bearings,or nuts in jug.add about 1/3 silicone.fill jug 1/2 way with mineral spirits.cap tightly.shake vigorously.the medal bits act like bearings in a spray paint can to stir the mix.keep adding silicone and shaking untill it is mostly disolved.then fill jug to top with mineral spirits.leave as little air as possible in jug,you can squeeze the jug to get rid of any air,then cap tightly.i believe if you leave an air pocket in jug some of silicone will harden.i left mine in the jug for 4 days before i used it.the silicone was completly dissolved.pour any leftover into a smaller jug(pop bottle maybe)making sure to squeeze out any air. pic of my mix

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy219/lonetracker/bushy%20projects/DSCN34800001.jpg

[HCH]

This is partly true. There is a more recent move in Silnylon manufacturing that is a "proprietary" blend of silicone and "other" (likely PU). It works very well. The Treebark Brown material I use is a Cordura fabric with this type of impregnation.

That said - most Silnylon manufacturing is striaght silicone.

There is also a third kind that's gotten a lot of attention, usually called "Ultra-Sil" (different from Ultrasil, which is pure silicone). Ultra-Sil is sil coated on one side, and PU coated on the other side (so they can tape the seams). Sea-to-Summit is making stuff sacks with it, as well as some other products. It is not, however (as far as I've been able to find - still looking), something that you can just buy from a distributor. It's made special for the "big box" gear makers. I'm all ears if anyone finds a source for the raw fabric!

These guys call theirs "Ultra-Sil

http://www.rockywoods.com/Fabrics-Hardware-Patterns-Kits/All-Ripstop-Nylon-Fabrics/Ultra-Sil-Silicone-Ripstop-Nylon-Fabric

[CGB]

OK got a real off the wall question here would the diy-sil process work on silk as opposed to working with nylon

[Knotty]

OK got a real off the wall question here would the diy-sil process work on silk as opposed to working with nylon

I think it would, provided the silk can hold up to the mineral spirits. Soak, squeeze and then allow to dry a small section of silk in the spirits to test.

[gargoyle]

OK got a real off the wall question here would the diy-sil process work on silk as opposed to working with nylon

Silk does not have the same strength to weight ratios as NYLON. And silk can be alot more expensive.
No ripstop grid = RIIIPPP!
Not as uv resistant.

Yes, dipping silk would probably work..but why silk?

Although a silky, waterproof poncho sounds pretty cool.;)

[CGB]

Yes, dipping silk would probably work..but why silk?

Although a silky, waterproof poncho sounds pretty cool.;)

i just read the entire thread and the thought popped into my head the strength to weight ration would have been my next question. thanks for the reply

[Ladybird]

has anyone tried the spray silicone? It says it is a lube, but I have some left over, so I may see if it will dry. Using a spray can seems much easier than mixing and dipping.

[Knotty]

has anyone tried the spray silicone? It says it is a lube, but I have some left over, so I may see if it will dry. Using a spray can seems much easier than mixing and dipping.

Silicone lube will remain wet. It's a lube and as such is not designed to cure.

[d-p]

GearEngineers :)

Spray, Coat, or Dip? Maybe try this?
WalMart sells Atsko "Silicone Water-Guard" in a spray can in the Camping section. It will spray/impregnate a LOT of fabric for roughly $5.

This has been working for me ...
Buy WalMart's $1.50 yd polyester or nylon coat lining material which is roughly an ounce a yard. Create/sew your project, and spray Atsko's Sil Water Guard on the fabric and you just might be impressed how it repels driving rain on a tarp. Not as good as factory SilNylon or the Spinnaker fabrics, but again, you just might be impressed with performance/value.

I've even found DWR at Wally @ $1.50 a yd. Lot's of coated camo 2 oz yd lately. Better hurry tho, chek EVERY time you are in Wally because, the clerks tell me all fabrics will be gone from Wally in a year or less. Then it'll be www retailers @ $5 -$10 or more a yd.

FYI: I've been making what I call ''hybrid'' tarps (ie" water PROOF 54" tarp top coverage with 18" bottom sides sewn to lengthen the tarp's overhang coverage.

You can save a LOT of money this way if you are buying expensive spinnaker fabrics (ie: Cuben or Spinntex. Plus, it adds maybe an ounce or two with the finished overall weight. This will save you 3 Meters or so of that "high dollar" fabric assuming your tarp is roughly 10' long.

Isn't the HF wonderful?

GM :shades:
Value gear eingineer

[miisterwright]

I just posted about my tarp that I made using this thread. Check it out (http:///www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19377)

[Rain Man]

I want to THANK y'all for this info about treating and importantly, re-treating, silnylon. Here's my experience from the past couple of days: When I read this thread, I grabbed some of my silnylon stuff sacks, filled them with water, and hung them in the garage. When I went back to check, there was a puddle under each. It made no difference if they were the cheapo Walmart bags or the super expensive brand name outfitter bags. Nor did it seem to matter how long I had had them or how much use they got, so far as I could discern.

Following the instructions to weigh cheap Walmart clear silicone and odorless mineral spirits on a postage scale, I mixed some up 4-to-1 in a glass jar and applied it with a paint brush.

Today, almost all the leaks are gone! On the bags I applied two coats inside and one coat outside, all the leaks are gone. (I'll go back and re-coat the remaining sacks.)

I did learn a couple of things. Apply the solution liberally to thoroughly soak the fabric, but then wipe the excess off just as thoroughly. I used a paper towel. Leaving excess on gives you a thin coating when dry that rubs right off. Not good. I wore gloves to do all this, as I have a box of disposables.

Multiple thin coats are best, inside and out.

I used some milk jugs and plastic bottles, and also bent coat hangers, to give the bag the correct form as it hung to air dry in my garage.

Can't wait to finish the job and see how these hold up on my next hike in a rain storm! They had become noticeably porous recently. This seems to be a cheap, quick, effective fix.

Rain Man

.

[MacEntyre]

Great report, Rain Man!

Thanks!
:thumbup:

[Rain Man]

Great report, Rain Man!

Thanks! Now that I've gotten started, I can't stop myself! Spent the last few days treating my old REI silnylon UL45 backpack. Water used to run off it, but lately it has been more like a sponge.

After a couple of applications of this home brew, water runs right off again. I'm so happy! LOL

Query: Why does the stuff sometimes "goop up" in solution when it sets overnight? Sometimes, it is fine. Other times, it "sets up" a bit and gets something like really slurpy Jello in it. Sorry can't describe it very well. Okay to just strain this part out and re-use the remaining liquid?

BTW, I have found that sections of CCF pad work well to give shape to stuff sacks and backpacks while working this stuff in and wiping it off. Styrofoam peanuts help too! Even rolled-up magazines and newspapers. Then I use wooden clothespins to hang 'em to dry.

Rain Man

.

[canoebie]

Thanks! Now that I've gotten started, I can't stop myself! Spent the last few days treating my old REI silnylon UL45 backpack. Water used to run off it, but lately it has been more like a sponge.

After a couple of applications of this home brew, water runs right off again. I'm so happy! LOL

Query: Why does the stuff sometimes "goop up" in solution when it sets overnight? Sometimes, it is fine. Other times, it "sets up" a bit and gets something like really slurpy Jello in it. Sorry can't describe it very well. Okay to just strain this part out and re-use the remaining liquid?

BTW, I have found that sections of CCF pad work well to give shape to stuff sacks and backpacks while working this stuff in and wiping it off. Styrofoam peanuts help too! Even rolled-up magazines and newspapers. Then I use wooden clothespins to hang 'em to dry.

Rain Man

.

Great idea on the pads and newspaper for shaping. I am going to give this a whirl this weekend.

[Knotty]

...Query: Why does the stuff sometimes "goop up" in solution when it sets overnight? Sometimes, it is fine. Other times, it "sets up" a bit and gets something like really slurpy Jello in it. Sorry can't describe it very well. Okay to just strain this part out and re-use the remaining liquid?...

I think there's link between silicone curing and moisture (speeds curing?) so maybe the humidity was different each time you did it?

[Bomber]

If i was to use a fabric that had been treated to be fireproof(from the manufacture) would i have to wash that treatment out first? or would it still bond regardless??


-Bomber

[No_p55]

I was searching the internet and found this product that sounded very interesting. I e-mailed the web site and here is their reply.

Hello

I have been reading some of the comments on the hammock.....site. Our product is the answer to practically all of them.

I would hope that you share the info with them, maybe visit my site at www.20starsealants.com.

Keep in touch

Tom Childress

[canoebie]

I was searching the internet and found this product that sounded very interesting. I e-mailed the web site and here is their reply.

Hello

I have been reading some of the comments on the hammock.....site. Our product is the answer to practically all of them.

I would hope that you share the info with them, maybe visit my site at www.20starsealants.com.

Keep in touch

Tom Childress

This looks like it has great potential. I have been holding back on sealing my tarps and tents that I have for clients because I get tired of the repellents, mineral spirits, etc. etc. This might just be a better alternative for me, my equipment, and the earth. I am very interested in this.

[MacEntyre]

$40 per gallon for something that is 70% to 94% water, and covers 150 square feet!

I think I read it right...

:eek:

[Albert Skye]

$40 per gallon for something that is 70% to 94% water, and covers 150 square feet!

Reminds me of IX. ;)

[Rain Man]

Okay... new use for our recipe. Can it be used to rejuvenate a Marmot Precip jacket that has lost its waterproofing prematurely? Just wondering, thinking what else I can slap this stuff on.

Rain Man

.

[MacEntyre]

Reminds me of IX. ;)
IX has a different problem. You get 100% un-diulted Insultex at a reasonable price per yard, but the minimum order quantity is huge.

[Lonely Raven]

Okay... new use for our recipe. Can it be used to rejuvenate a Marmot Precip jacket that has lost its waterproofing prematurely? Just wondering, thinking what else I can slap this stuff on.

Rain Man

.

Is that a breathable jacket? Because if you use this stuff, it won't be anymore! :laugh:

[Rain Man]

Is that a breathable jacket? Because if you use this stuff, it won't be anymore! :laugh:

Not to my knowledge.

Rain Man

.

[sr1355]

I'm just finishing assembling a CatCut 136X116 tarp out of WW ripstop. I'm thinking of using the pitch and apply method with white gas as thinner. Planning on using a 4:1 mixer with Black 100% silicone. Ripstop is grey so I'm hoping to transfer alittle of the color and result in a darker tarp... Will do small text piece tonight, say 18X18 and see how it turns out...

On another note I did built a diamond tarp and used the spray silicone tent coating from WW and was pleased with the results. Certainly beads up water well but not sure about long term exposure to rain...

[TZBrown]

Hey Rain Man

There was a post on Whiteblaze about the Percip jacket recently.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=65594

From the looks of it you might contact the mfg and get a new one if they believe it to be a manufacture fault..

Might be worth a try

[Knotty]

I'm just finishing assembling a CatCut 136X116 tarp out of WW ripstop. I'm thinking of using the pitch and apply method with white gas as thinner. Planning on using a 4:1 mixer with Black 100% silicone. Ripstop is grey so I'm hoping to transfer alittle of the color and result in a darker tarp... Will do small text piece tonight, say 18X18 and see how it turns out...

On another note I did built a diamond tarp and used the spray silicone tent coating from WW and was pleased with the results. Certainly beads up water well but not sure about long term exposure to rain...

I like your idea about using black silicone to darken the tarp. The color may not come out even but that could be a plus.

I don't like the idea of using white gas. Far too dangerous, IMHO. Mineral spirits work fine and aren't nearly as volatile.

[sr1355]

I think I'll be using mineral spirts... I'm hope the get an uneven finish and will keep you posted... Just finished outting last guyout on tarp and will be treating tomorrow... Fingers Crossed...