OES MacCat - Cuben

[angrysparrow]

http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/4/cuben-view_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=10170&c=7)

This review has been a long time coming!

Earlier this year; myself, headchange4u, and ncpatrick were discussing a small personal group buy of cuben material to use for tarp making. After quite a bit of back and forth chat about sources, material, and techniques...and after picking the brains of a few folks with cuben working experience, we contacted Brian from OES to get his thoughts. In the conversation that followed, Brian agreed to make some prototypes! While that process took a while (ordering and receiving the material, material and method testing and sample mailing, fitting the build into Brian's schedule, etc) we finally got the tarps in early May. And, for the last 3 months or so have been using and testing them in our spare time. Specs and thoughts are as follows -

Cuben Fabric - Cubic Tech 1K.08 Olive Drab
Dimensions - 130"×104" (MacCat Deluxe)
Methods - Taped ridgeline, fully sewn perimeter, taped and sewn corner reinforcements.
Weight - 4.7oz!!

Corner Sample Brian mailed to each of us -
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/2/0/photo_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=10171&c=7)

And some pics of the finished product -
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/4/1_thumb.jpeg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=10172&c=7) http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/4/2_thumb.jpeg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=10173&c=7) http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/4/3_thumb.jpeg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=10174&c=7) http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/4/4_thumb.jpeg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=10175&c=7) http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/4/5_thumb.jpeg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=10176&c=7) http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/4/6_thumb.jpeg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=10177&c=7) http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/4/7_thumb.jpeg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=10178&c=7)

Note the variant shading of the olive color in the different photos. While olive cuben does have a distinctive shade, it very much picks up the hue of the surrounding light. This translucent property is simply the nature of cuben fabric in this thickness. The visibility isn't without merit, though, since it is interesting to be able to see the night sky through the tarp on a clear night, although it might make sleeping difficult under a full moon.

The tarp itself is made in the usual bomber-tough fashion that we've all come to expect from OES. The stitching is all extremely tight, evenly spaced, and impeccably straight. Brian's choice to sew the tie-outs and perimeter as opposed to taping it is indeed a departure from the normal cuben construction methods, but his detailed tailoring skills allows this method to work nicely. After placing a lot of intentional stress on both the corner panels and along the edging, I find no weakness or apparent stress points. The ridgeline is fully taped, however, so that no seam-holes exist above the area that would cover a hammock.

I personally have had the above pictured tarp in a thunderstorm with excessively high winds, such that force of wind on the tarp pulled my stakes from the ground on one side, and the tarp flapped wildly. But after securing the stakes again, I could find no damage to any part of the tarp.

As opposed to other OES tarps, it is recommended that a full-length ridgeline cord be used with the cuben version. That helps protect the taped seam from undue tensioning stress, as well as allowing even-tension to be placed on the panels of this no-stretch material.

We're glad to have gotten the chance to use these prototypes! This was my first experience with a cuben tarp, and I have come away impressed that it is more durable in-use that I expected it to be. The folks that attended the last Red River Gorge hang got to see two of these in person, so they also can comment on the construction details.

At the end of his part of the project, Brian sent us the following comments that sum up these tarps nicely -


I would like to thank all three of you for your patience in this endeavor, but I would like to say this - these are three of the highest quality tarps I have ever made. Not a single loose stitch (nothing over 1/8" while I was working), and I was very, very careful to ensure the bobbin didn't run out as I was working a long stitch. I'm proud to say that this is some of my highest quality stitching I've done in a while, and I think the material demands it. I do hope the tarps find you safely in the next couple of days, and I welcome any feedback you have, along with any action shots/stories you aquire in the coming weeks.

For those of you that are interested, Brian is still tweaking his prototype details but hopes to make them available on a limited custom order basis by fall. Keep an eye on his site for info.

It's an exciting time for new lightweight tarp materials! I'm pleased to have gotten a chance to see the development first hand.

[Raul Perez]

sick..... grrr my girlfriend is going to kill me with another order. I better propose soon or she's gonna leave me HA!

[HappyCamper]

Wow! 4.7oz!! Color me CUBEN ! Color me broke, but I still want one ! !

[Hetairoi]

Wow! 4.7oz!! Color me CUBEN ! Color me broke, but I still want one ! !

it really is disturbingly light .... you hold it and think 'that can't be right'. much tougher than it appears to be though.

[NCPatrick]

Here are some tarp pics from a trip to Red River Gorge in May. (My house in the left picture, AngrySparrow's right).

My tarp weighed in at 5.1oz with Dynaglide tie-outs and ridgeline.

[Dutch]

I am sick with envy...sick I tell you. I'll trade you 1 set of Dutch Biner and 2 sets fo Dutch Clips for your tarp. Wait I just remembered the blackmail pictures I have of NCP.

[Globetruck]

Where do you live? Where in your house do you store this fine tarp? Does your house have an alarm? When will you be away from the house or at work? You've probably heard of cat burglars, and now I think we have a MacCat burglar...

[Dutch]

That's right I have AS's address.

[Raul Perez]

4.7 & 5.1oz.... assuming the 4.7oz is with guylines and ridgeline... how much does the tarp weigh on it's own with stuff sack?

[angrysparrow]

4.7 & 5.1oz.... assuming the 4.7oz is with guylines and ridgeline... how much does the tarp weigh on it's own with stuff sack?

No, 4.7oz is just the tarp alone.

Brian shipped these with his normal silnylon sack (he only had double-sided cuben tape on hand) which adds .3oz.

I would surmise the non-prototype ones would come with a cuben sack instead.

[NCPatrick]

I'll go home and re-weigh it. I believe my 5.1oz number came from weighing it in the stuff sack with everything included. It has been a while though, so I will verify that memory for ya.

[Just Jeff]

Great review, guys...can't wait for mine!

[ikemouser]

Do you have to run the ridgeline under the tarp, or can it be ran over?

[angrysparrow]

Do you have to run the ridgeline under the tarp, or can it be ran over?

I've only used it under.

An 'over' ridgeline doesn't offer any support along the length of the tarp, and to me seems essentially no different than not using any full ridgeline at all. That's fine on tarp with a sewn seam, but I'm hesitant to do that on a taped-seam of any material. There's just no benefit.

I personally would use an 'under' ridgeline on any tarp with a taped-ridge seam.

[NCPatrick]

Do you have to run the ridgeline under the tarp, or can it be ran over?
Over or under, your preference. To get it really taut though I think under works better.

[drewboy]

It's great to see another cuben tarp option out there, they are really coming out of the woodwork lately. No doubt Brian's workmanship will be top notch as always. I am a little wary of the 1K.08 fabric weight selection though. Time will tell on the reliability and durability of this approach. Ron Bell of MLD stopped using 1K.08 (~0.5oz/yd^2?) a while ago and will only warranty 2K.08 (~0.7oz/yd^2?) on any of his cuben tarp products. He probably has more field experience and customer feedback than just about anyone else when it comes to building cuben tarps. Nothing wrong with pushing the envelope on weight, but people will need to understand the compromises of what they are getting into.

BTW, it does look like a beautifully made tarp.

[G.L.P.]

man...thats a really nice looking tarp
the weight is even better....might have to look into getting one once there for sale

[angrysparrow]

Nothing wrong with pushing the envelope on weight, but people will need to understand the compromises of what they are getting into.

Absolutely, I was wary of it at first too. So far so good, and I'm not 'babying' the tarp.

I will gladly update this thread if I run into any issues at all.

[headchange4u]

I'm also a proud owner of one of the 3 existing OES Cuben tarps. I can't say enough good things about it. Of course the construction is top notch and the thing is so light as to be almost non-existent in my pack.

[WV]

I've only used it under.

An 'over' ridgeline doesn't offer any support along the length of the tarp, and to me seems essentially no different than not using any full ridgeline at all. That's fine on tarp with a sewn seam, but I'm hesitant to do that on a taped-seam of any material. There's just no benefit.

I personally would use an 'under' ridgeline on any tarp with a taped-ridge seam.

It sounds like you're presuming that a taped seam is a potential weak point in the tarp's construction. I believe that it is substantially stronger than the surrounding area, especially with CT1K.08. That said, I use a Dynaglide ridgeline with my cuben tarp, and I run it under the tarp. :confused: The reason (I tell myself) is that I have 5 bungee Nacrabiners on the ridgeline, which I use to furl the tarp. When it's deployed they're useful to hang things from, so I move the ridgeline underneath. Also, my hammock attaches to the same ridgeline, and the connections can be under the tarp, too. Because the portion of the ridgeline between the hammock connections is taut, and the tarp connections are a couple of inches farther apart, the tarp is lightly resting on the ridgeline, not stretched over it. Still, it "seems stronger" having the ridgeline under the tarp, even if logic and experience suggest that it's not necessary.

[SGT Rock]

Looks great. Brian does wonderful work.

[angrysparrow]

It sounds like you're presuming that a taped seam is a potential weak point in the tarp's construction.

No, I do realize that it's stronger (I follow all the cuben discussion here, even if I haven't commented).

From my experience it takes more tension on the ends of the tarp to get it taut than if I use a ridgeline underneath it. And I don't see any benefit to having more tension on that seam, even if it is stronger than the rest of the fabric.

But that's just my take on it. I'm not an expert regarding the fabric or anything of the sort.

[Rug]

How loud is it?

I have zero experience with anything other then coated rip-stop, but I have heard stories that spinn is loud.

I will be buying a new tarp (soon'ish), and would pay anything for a 'bulletproof' setup, I care more about durability then weight. Rumour has it that cuban is very tough so that fits the bill, and has the bonus of being light.

The only thing I want to hear is the wildlife. I only want to pay for something once.
I can live with the colour, but prefer something darker/more stealthy.

[angrysparrow]

How loud is it?

Cuben isn't loud at all. Think saran wrap, only thicker with fibers in it.

My Spinn tarp isn't loud either when it's stretched taut. It's only when you're unpacking it from the stuff bag that it has a crinkling sound, but even that fades as it breaks in. I don't consider it any issue.



I will be buying a new tarp (soon'ish), and would pay anything for a 'bulletproof' setup

If you don't care about weight, then you're better off saving your pennies and going with Silnylon. Both cuben and spinn are great, but they don't offer more durability than Sil. And you have a lot more choices for color, style, and availability.

Cuben is nice indeed. But it really shines most for weight savings.

[Rug]

Thanks!

Now, what else can I spend the money I saved on cuben? =)

AS: My wife doesn't like you very much right now!

[BurningCedar]

Makes the 10.2 ounce Spinn OES Deluxe I just bought this spring seem diabolically heavy.

Now the polite thing would have been to hold off telling me this until I got at least ONE full backpacking season on the Spinn tarp. Oh, BTW, great review. :shades:

[Cranky Bear]

Very sweet tarp's! Love the weight too! Wonder if he will try a different style of tarp like cat cut rectangle with ends that close in like door's since the weight won't be a factor when he decides to make them available? Or something along those line's

[angrysparrow]

Very sweet tarp's! Love the weight too! Wonder if he will try a different style of tarp like cat cut rectangle with ends that close in like door's since the weight won't be a factor when he decides to make them available? Or something along those line's

Perhaps, but I would be leery of it. Tarp doors really need some stretch to them to pitch with any real tautness. If they don't have it, you inevitably wind up with some 'flap' noise, no matter... Brandon realized the same thing, and it's why his WB doors are only available in Sil.

I tested a couple of winter-tarp prototypes for Brian made from Spinn. The spinn doors were always noisy.

[NCPatrick]

Just weighed my tarp.

Tarp + 4 dynaglide tie-outs (approx. 7' each) = 5.4oz

Add in 1 dynaglide ridgeline with 2 dynaglide prussicks - did not weigh or measure
1 niteize figure 9= .1oz (optional, still working that out)
1 small silnylon stuff-sack= .4oz (optional?)

and the weight skyrockets on my scale all the way up to 6.7oz total package weight not including stakes.

[Raul Perez]

Just weighed my tarp.

Tarp + 4 dynaglide tie-outs (approx. 7' each) = 5.4oz

Add in 1 dynaglide ridgeline with 2 dynaglide prussicks - did not weigh or measure
1 niteize figure 9= .1oz (optional, still working that out)
1 small silnylon stuff-sack= .4oz (optional?)

and the weight skyrockets on my scale all the way up to 6.7oz total package weight not including stakes.

Yeah that's the figures I was figuring the total set up would be for me:

4.7oz for the tarp
1.3oz for Opies full length ridgeline
0.3oz for 1.25mm Spectra Line guylines (6 feet each end X 4)
0.5oz cuben sack (guesstimate)

6.8oz total. That cuts 6.5oz off my current Deluxe Spinn set up. I'm in just name that price. That puts me below the 10lbs base weight mark.

[LostCause]

Nice review and nice looking tarps. I've been waiting for something to come out about this since I saw AngrySparrow's tarp listed as an OES cuben! Thanks for the info guys.

[gunner76]

I know what I want for Christmas this year. :D

[MedicineMan]

I PM'ed Brian asking for one of the first production batch.
Can we call it the McCubCat?

[Shug]

Nice, nice, nice.
I feel some ching about to egress my pocket.......
Thanks for the report ..... lucky stiffs.!!!!
Shug

[Triptease]

Crap... let me know the cost... I'm in on the next batch.

[MedicineMan]

Brian, want to set up a pre-order button on your site?

[griffins]

Out of curiosity, why the cat cuts? I thought they were more for fabric that stretched under load.

[Just Jeff]

The cat cuts take out the flappy part that you get when you try to pitch a rectangle tightly. A cat tarp is very easy to pitch so tightly that it doesn't flap in the wind.

[Beast 71]

How fire resistant is cuben?

[Cranky Bear]

So it's been a little while since something has been posted here, how are the tarps holding/fairing/wearing???????

[Bomber]

And is there any news regarding production???

[Oms]

And is there any news regarding production???

I actually emailed Brian to find out. I have been trying to purchase a tarp made from Spinn, but the fabric which he received was not up to spec. Now I'm reading this post and drooling at the weight, but saw the prices over at MLD and almost choked :eek:.

[angrysparrow]

So it's been a little while since something has been posted here, how are the tarps holding/fairing/wearing???????

So far they're holding up great. I don't have a use-count on nights spent with it (maybe 20), but no issues at all even in some rough weather.

I don't have any idea about Brian's plans to offer more of them.

[Cranky Bear]

So far they're holding up great. I don't have a use-count on nights spent with it (maybe 20), but no issues at all even in some rough weather.

I don't have any idea about Brian's plans to offer more of them.

What type of ridgeline are you using? Two (one on each end), CRL (over or under)? I ask as I read that too much tension on the ridge is not a good thing with Cuben! How is the stitching holding up? Sorry about the specific question's, but I'm curious to the different methods of design and construction holding up in time!

[angrysparrow]

With that tarp I use a CRL, under. No issues with perimeter or corner stitching so far. The ridge has no stitches...just the taped seam.

[Cranky Bear]

With that tarp I use a CRL, under. No issues with perimeter or corner stitching so far. The ridge has no stitches...just the taped seam.

Thats awesome to hear, thank you! I have been trying to keep up with the whole Cuben thing and the tape vs stitch thing is what I am still battling, as I understand it that the material is severely affected and weakened by stitching!

[R00K]

I'm so sad I saw this thread. Now I have to buy two tarps... :scared: One for this summer and one (I suppose) next Fall. Unless someone can tell me that this is gonna be the priciest CF tarp on the market, in which case I'll be happy again, because then I wont be able to afford it. :D