Ownership after Upload

[BlackGoat]

Mods,

Please clarify HF.net's position on ownership of pictures and attachments that are uploaded to the HF gallery/attachment folder. Does the end user/uploader still have rights to those objects? What functionality is available to remove or change them? Does HF assume rights to these objects? Is there legalese that explains the ownership when uploading the objects?


Thanks,

Blackgoat

[kayak karl]

your right. are your photos on your blog or any blog protected. you really got me thinking :confused:

[BlackGoat]

Karl,

You bring up a good point that speaks to the perils of uploading content to the Internet. However, that is a bigger issue that is beyond the scope of HF.net.

Instead I am curious as to the rights that HF.net claims over content( Pictures, Files, posts) that I as a user upload on to it. I assume that HF.net states somewhere that it has the right to remove offensive posts, pictures, etc. However, does it give me the right to do this with my own content?

Example 1:
A person uploads a file with incorrect specs and wants to edit it to remove confusion or fix a safety concern. Do I have the ability to go and delete my file? Unless I am missing something I do not see this ability be available to me in the menu options.

Example 2:
A person accidentally uploads the wrong pictures into the gallery and wants to remove them. I don't currently don't see this as being an available option in the menu. Unless I am missing something.

Example 3:
A vendor/company likes a picture that I have uploaded on HF.net and decides to trace the ownership in order to gain permission to use it. Does the ownership claim exist with HF.net or do I still maintain the ownership?

Example 4:
A person uploads an incorrect design or instruction file or picture. A another user uses the file that has been posted on HF.Net and harms themself based upon the incorrect instructions. Who owns those instructions? the uploader or the website owner?

I am sure there are state laws and possibly Federal laws that define this to some extent. However, the majority of the user content driven websites explicitly define ownership of content. I am trying to understand HF.net's definition.

I am not trying to stir the pot nor am I a looking for a loophole. I am just trying to understand the forum's rules so that I can have better information on what options I should use in the future when posting content. Such as hosting my own pictures and files and just provide links to them in my posts instead of uploading them to the forum.

Thanks,

BG

[bdpalace]

Open the picture in the gallery and click on image tools to the top right. Select edit. There is an option to delete the photo there.

[Ramblinrev]

I inquired about this a while ago in terms of rights ownership of my videos and images. I was assured that HF.com claims no ownership rights to any image content posted on its forums. I can edit any of my posts after I have posted them. I don't know if the window for editing closes or not. I haven't checked. I believe I have also removed images which are no longer pertinent to my project but I can't remember for sure. Perhaps those benefits are granted only to Donating Members. I don't know about that.

[BlackGoat]

Open the picture in the gallery and click on image tools to the top right. Select edit. There is an option to delete the photo there.


Beauty! That works, I missed it, so that answers half of my questions.

[WV]

Example 2:
A person accidentally uploads the wrong pictures into the gallery and wants to remove them. I don't currently don't see this as being an available option in the menu. Unless I am missing something.

I was missing it, too, but just the other day Angry Sparrow told me how to delete my photos:
"On the toolbar at the top is an 'Image Tools' dropdown menu. One of the options there is 'Delete Image'."

Click "Edit" and "Delete" is one of the sub-options. :)

[angrysparrow]

As you have found, anyone can indeed delete their gallery pics themselves, or attachments to posts by request to a moderator. Uploading to HF grants HF the right to use and display those images at will, but it doesn't remove the original owner's right to also use them elsewhere. Any formal requests for use of an image posted on HF will be forwarded to the person that posted the image originally.

The 'Image Tools' dropdown menu, located on the upper right of each gallery page contains the removal option.

Posts and attachments may be edited freely for the first 3 days after they are made. After that, you simply need to ask a moderator to make the changes on your behalf.

HF does claim copyright on posts made here, but not for commercial purposes. The goal is simply to protect the content of those posts from being republished elsewhere without permission.

For a 'formal' answer, I will defer you to Just Jeff. But the above represents the common operating norm.

[BER]

For the most part, I think it is probably a non-issue. The photos posted here are pretty compressed compared to the original. For example, the photo posted here (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showpost.php?p=295252&postcount=21) was compressed from an original of 3264x2448 (2.3MB jpeg) to 640x480 (36KB jpeg). The same goes for the few photos I have uploaded to my gallery.

If someone were wanting to publish the photo, 1) I think it would be blind luck on my part to come across it, but 2) the image quality is really pretty poor compared to print quality, so I doubt they'd really bother anyway. If I did find someone using or even linking my picture in a way I didn't like, I legally could write them a letter and ask them to remove it. If they do not, or if they were making a profit from my photo, my reading of the copyright law is that I could bring suit against them. Whether it is worth my time and expense is another issue. I am not a lawyer though, so consult a real one if you have an issue.

If you are really worried about it, more information can be found here (http://www.copyright.gov/) and here (http://www.htmlgoodies.com/beyond/reference/article.php/3472671/Copyright-Questions-and-Answers.htm).

An interesting quote regarding internet copyright: "Taking images from third-parties. The simple rule is, "Don't steal someone else's images." The moment an original image (or string of text) is fixed on a hard drive for the first time, it is protected by copyright. Any unauthorized copying of a protected image is an infringement of the creator's copyright, unless the use falls within one of the very limited exceptions to the copyright law, such as "fair use." In most cases, it is unlikely that the incorporation of an image into a commercial web-site would be considered a fair use. " --taken from http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/webpage.html. Note this site is is copyrighted, but using this small bit might fall under the fair use provision of the law. If not, I will be happy to remove this notation at the request of the owner.

[Lonely Raven]

As a photographer I am concerned with as I've my photos stolen and used for other things.

A proper Cease and Desist letter typically gets the image removed, though if it's a good one like the one above...someone may have stolen it for advertising purposes without the owner getting any credit or compensation.

People tend to feel that if it's on the internet, it's fair game. This is far from being true.

[Hawk-eye]

One thing about the internet ... and uploading and posting anything ... if you don't want it out there forever or for limited audiences ... best not to upload it at all.

Just something to keep in mind when you post, share or upload.

[Just Jeff]

Angrysparrow summed up our policy well. As a general rule, all vBulletin forums claim copyright to the posts made on their site...I think those terms are actually defaulted into the program software but I don't have time to look for it right now. Even so, HF tries very hard to keep the forum's non-commercial nature, and we don't use any of the posts or images for commercial purposes.

But this does bring up an important legal issue re: content. Intellectual property law says that you have one year from public publication to begin a patent on your item or it becomes public domain. That means that if you post an idea for a new project here, it's protected for only one year before someone else can begin making it for profit. So if you have a good idea that you'd like to protect, be sure to file for your patent within a year of posting it anywhere in the public domain. (I'm not a lawyer so there may be some exceptions to that...contact an attorney if you have questions on it.)

While I understand the purpose of that law, I have a problem with people profiting from other folks' information posted on HF. In fact, many of the members who posted some of the most creative solutions and projects in HF's early days have stopped posting, solely because of other HF members trying to profit from their ideas. I'm all about capitalism...but it should be done honestly with your own ideas, or with the express permission (and possibly compensation) of the people who had them. I don't care if the law only says one year...it's still not right IMO. Great minds cause humanity to progress...not the other folks who profit from their ideas.

Hammock socks, for example. Has anyone selling hammock socks, or any of the knock-off sock mods, compensated the people who first published them on the internet? I don't know if Risk was ever contacted, but he was the first one I know of to post the Travel Pod idea. DebW also had a hammock bivy on www.trailjournals.net around this time. I didn't have a zipper, so I made mine into a sock and posted that. Add in a few details that I put in posts here and on WB, but not on my website, and many of today's designs match or are very similar to those first three designs. It's been several years now, and today...literally today...I got my first email from someone asking if I mind if them using my design for profit.

Since it's been more than a year, is this legal? Yes. Is it moral? No. Is it worth making a stink over? Not in most cases...but that's why HF has become more commercialized and less content-rich over the last couple years. And that free exchange of ideas, without fear of theft for profit, is what I miss most about our community.

So for your posts and ideas here, technically HF has copyright but we'll never try to defend that against the owner. I'm not sure how this legally applies to images, but again...we won't fight the owner on using them elsewhere.

There's only one quibble I can think of with this. HF draws a line on deleting posts just b/c a member gets upset and leaves. That would disrupt the flow of the threads, so we do not delete a user's posts simply on request. If there's a logical reason for it - improper instructions, safety issues, etc - then we'll gladly edit or delete the material.

Off my soapbox. I think the OP got his answer so I'm gonna close this thread now.