View Full Version : Great Podcast Interview with Clark Outdoors Founder
riverbruce
11-02-2007, 14:07
There's a great new podcast entry from Practical Backpacking site, (http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/blog/). It's all about the design and use of the Clark Outdoor hammocks. You can listen to it here: http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/audio/pbpodcast/PBP-30_Clark-Jungle-Hammock.mp3.
Enjoy!
Bruce
mataharihiker
11-02-2007, 14:16
I picked it up yesterday and listened to it today...found it really interesting...especially how the company began...now, it's the week-end and I finally will have time to play with my new Clark NA...whoopee!
well...it was interesting but a little long and strained. And, he said Clark offers "tree straps" - I bought two Clark North American hammocks in October, about 2 weeks apart - over the phone, and no one mentioned any tree straps. And there doesn't appear to be any mention of tree staps at the clark site.
I learned about using straps instead of ropes from this forum.
cavediver2
11-02-2007, 15:32
Thanks allot for the link im listin to it now:)
hangnout
11-02-2007, 18:24
Interesting podcast, I have to disagree with one thing in the podcast when he stated that the average person would not need a pad until about 20 degrees. I know that all the experienced hangers would test and know what works but sending a new hanger out thinking ziploc bags are going to keep them warm and not need a pad till in the 20's could make for some miserable cold weather hangs.
Clark makes a great product and I used mine for several years with no problems but the pockets need to have real insulation of some kind to keep you warm
Interesting podcast, I have to disagree with one thing in the podcast when he stated that the average person would not need a pad until about 20 degrees. I know that all the experienced hangers would test and know what works but sending a new hanger out thinking ziploc bags is going to keep them warm and not need a pad till in the 20's could make for some miserable cold weather hangs.
Clark makes a great product and I used mine for several years with no problems but the pockets have to have real insulation of some kind to keep you warm
I tried the infalted ziplock bags just once - in 40 degree temps, and they didn't seem to work. The podcast also stated Clark offers tree straps to prevent damage to trees but that is not true. After listening to the podcast I'm considering returning my second Clark. Misleading statements like that reflect on the entire product.
cavediver2
11-02-2007, 20:07
they will have there straps on there web site within two weeks
and pictures of them in use
they will have there straps on there web site within two weeks
and pictures of them in use
My pont is two fold: (1) Clark talked about the tree huggers as if they were already available, simply put that was a lie. (2) in any event, tree straps should not be an "option" - I personally saw the damage the Clark ropes caused to the bark on the evergreen trees in the Adirondacks. Clark needs to incorporate tree saving straps on every one of its hammocks. geezz...for $300 dollors a hammock can't they exercise some responsible conduct?
cavediver2
11-03-2007, 00:56
good point
I can only say that I will be watching there website to see what they bring out kinda hard to see it in my mind but pictures will do wonders.
I do agree with you nogods that they should be part of the system and maybe they will be with the new one's they put out. But I don't think other's are doing it yet and maybe they should. I cant say that if that was one of the reasons I would have bought it with or without them I am one to think that at least around here in the place's I hang I see more damage from the big deer here and the ATV's that are going to fast for a turn that hit them or tying off to them to pull another one out or tree stand are every where so I will do my part although im not a tree hugger and never will be I will continue to use straps and maybe the next conversation I have with spencer I will bring it up to him that they should be part of the system.
have a good hang this weekend if you are going out im going to do some cold weather testing at night this weekend and I think tuesday it is suppose to be down to 22 degress so I will get some good testing the next couple of day's
Just Jeff
11-03-2007, 01:57
But I don't think other's are doing it yet and maybe they should.
Every camping hammock I can think of uses some sort of strap on the trees. Hennessy has been using tree huggers for as long as I've been hammocking. Same with Ed Speer's straps. Same with the new JRB hammock and the Claytor jungle hammock and the ENO hammocks. I'm sure there are a couple out there I'm not thinking of right now, but all the major ones do.
And to my mind, "Well, those ATV guys are worse than us" is no excuse for irresonsible behavior.
JMHO.
Every camping hammock I can think of uses some sort of strap on the trees. Hennessy has been using tree huggers for as long as I've been hammocking. Same with Ed Speer's straps. Same with the new JRB hammock and the Claytor jungle hammock and the ENO hammocks. I'm sure there are a couple out there I'm not thinking of right now, but all the major ones do.
Except for clark - but with the knowledge I gained from this forum it cost me only $15 to solve the problem (and if I shoped around probably could have done it for less than $10) - 4 ring buckles and some webbing.
It took only one trip into the woods with the Clark ropes to realize using them on trees with scale-like bark would cause damage. Surely they must have known this a long time ago.
Here's what Clark should have said "We have a rope that we think is technically superior to anything our competitors use but even our ropes can cause damage to trees so we encourage out customers to use a tree strap or webbing, and we are in the process of developing a tree strap system that will be a standard on all our models in the near future."
mataharihiker
11-03-2007, 11:50
My pont is two fold: (1) Clark talked about the tree huggers as if they were already available, simply put that was a lie. (2) in any event, tree straps should not be an "option" - I personally saw the damage the Clark ropes caused to the bark on the evergreen trees in the Adirondacks. Clark needs to incorporate tree saving straps on every one of its hammocks. geezz...for $300 dollors a hammock can't they exercise some responsible conduct?
Well, tree huggers ARE already available...I bought mine years ago from ENO for my Moskito hammock and later bought a set from Hennessy...I didn't catch where Spencer said they were available at Clark...I thought he just said they were available, which they are...I don't always use them...mostly only when I tie off on softwoods....
Well, tree huggers ARE already available...I bought mine years ago from ENO for my Moskito hammock and later bought a set from Hennessy...I didn't catch where Spencer said they were available at Clark...I thought he just said they were available, which they are...I don't always use them...mostly only when I tie off on softwoods....
Spencer Clark, at 11 mins into the interview, in response to a question about tree damage, states: “that’s why many companies, INCLUDING OURS, offer tree straps.” That was a lie.
After listening to the podcast a second time and re-hearing the bull about Clark having tree straps and the use of infalted ziplock bags, I've decided it is a company that can't be trusted. They apparently will say anything to sell hammocks.
I am definietly returning my second hammock and I'm going to encourage my son to let me return his too. But there is some good, my disgust with Clark has induced me to try my hand at making my own hammocks, which I'll detail in another post.
mataharihiker
11-04-2007, 17:11
I felt Clark's integrity is important to them so I sent them a link to this thread. Let's see how they respond, IF they respond.
I felt Clark's integrity is important to them so I sent them a link to this thread. Let's see how they respond, IF they respond.
good idea - I left a comment about the podcast on Practical Backing not long after you posted your comments. Mine never got published, apparently because they were critical about the tree strap claim. It looks like practical backpacking is protecting its "advertisers" from anything other than praise - which itself raises questions about the validity of information found there.
mataharihiker
11-05-2007, 11:59
The man works on Sunday! I don't...I was hangin' out!
RE: Tree Straps...
From: Clark Jungle Hammock (
[email protected])
Sent: Sun 11/04/07 8:54 PM
To: mataharihiker@
Hi Linda,
Thanks for your email. I read the discussion you sent me about the tree straps with interest. Like I mentioned in the interview, Clark offers tree straps like many companies do. Our tree straps have been available for many years for the price of $5 to those who call and request them. The reason we have not incorporated the tree straps into our hammocks is because there are so many ways our customers suspend their hammocks. Everyone has their own method. We're going to continue striving to make perfect hammocks, and we'll let hammock campers decide which suspension system is best for them. Over time, there may begin to be some consensus about what kind of straps are most useful, and its likely we'll start making them standard to our hammocks at that time.
We try to be very responsive. People should spend less time complaining on forums and more time talking to the people who can actually change things. Your email gave us pause, and it made me think that we may have to re-set our priorities to keep up with the environmental needs of our customers. If nothing else, we need to do a better job explaining on our site how to limit damage to trees.
Thanks very much for giving me a chance to respond,
Spencer Clark
Cannibal
11-05-2007, 12:28
Hey, that's great!
I've often wondered why manufacturers don't sell their products with straps right out of the box. Then, I go back and read older threads here and realize that we haven't been doing it that long. When Hammock Engineer sold me my HH at this past Trail Days he said: "or you could set it up with the ring buckle suspension that everyone is talking about these days". That was less than one year ago.
Tree Huggers are a start and I don't think it will be that long before we start to see strap systems come with most new hammocks. It is after all, in the best interest of the manufacturers to be environmentally sensitive. If all these restrictions we've been talking about recently start to spread the use and therefore, the sale, of hammocks will decrease.
At least we got another one visiting HF and reading about what we're doing to their products. I think that's a positive.
The man works on Sunday! I don't...I was hangin' out!
RE: Tree Straps...
From: Clark Jungle Hammock (
[email protected])
Sent: Sun 11/04/07 8:54 PM
To: mataharihiker@
Hi Linda,
Thanks for your email. I read the discussion you sent me about the tree straps with interest. Like I mentioned in the interview, Clark offers tree straps like many companies do. Our tree straps have been available for many years for the price of $5 to those who call and request them. The reason we have not incorporated the tree straps into our hammocks is because there are so many ways our customers suspend their hammocks. Everyone has their own method. We're going to continue striving to make perfect hammocks, and we'll let hammock campers decide which suspension system is best for them. Over time, there may begin to be some consensus about what kind of straps are most useful, and its likely we'll start making them standard to our hammocks at that time.
We try to be very responsive. People should spend less time complaining on forums and more time talking to the people who can actually change things. Your email gave us pause, and it made me think that we may have to re-set our priorities to keep up with the environmental needs of our customers. If nothing else, we need to do a better job explaining on our site how to limit damage to trees.
Thanks very much for giving me a chance to respond,
Spencer Clark
That sounds disingenuous to me. I had several telephone conversations with Clark customer service before ordering a hammock by phone. I had several more telephone conversations before ordering a second hammock by phone. I spoke to the same person on each of those occasions, and I made it clear that I had never used a hammock before and I had asked specifically about how the hammock was attached to trees.
During one of those conversations the Clark customer service rep went into great detail about their special “slippery” rope and how it was superior for untying the bowline knot they suggested I use. They also told me, and it is true, that they have instructions for the bowline sewn into the tarp. At no time during any of those conversations did the Clark representative mention using or purchasing tree straps – but they did mention purchasing the XL tarp for $20 so apparently they have no problem promoting their accessory products during the sales calls. Moreover, there is no mention of any tree straps on their web site. His claim that Clark sells tree straps but doesn’t tell anyone about them is silly.
He could have done the right thing, admitted the error, and stated that Clark would correct the situation – instead he acted like the irresponsible automobile manufacturers who said “the Corvair is no more dangerous than any other car…the Pinto doesn’t explode on impact….consumers don’t need seat belts…etc, etc.”
Moreover, I see that he didn't respond to the "infalted zip lock bag" baloney.
And Spencer Clark’s pot shot – “People should spend less time complaining on forums and more time talking to the people who can actually change things.” is childish. He is an outright liar. His products can’t be trusted. I am definitely returning both of my Clark hammocks now and I would never recommend purchasing anything from their company.
mataharihiker
11-05-2007, 13:55
I disagree with your interpretation of Clark's email response, nogods...I do not, and have not read or heard anything that would make me think of him as an "outright liar" plus I believe Clark produces a superior product. I also agree with Spencer's comment, "People should spend less time complaining on forums and more time talking to the people who can actually change things."...however, if I haven't learned anything is 60 years, I've learned each of us hears and reads things differently through the filter of our brains...so it goes...
I feel Clark hammocks are definitely right up there insofar as quality goes and their product can certainly be trusted...I had mine in temps that dropped below freezing last week-end and think the Clark one of the best designed, well-constructed hammocks I've owned...
We do not have to agree with each other to appreciate the superiority of hammock camping...luckily there are plenty of products out there....
cavediver2
11-05-2007, 14:11
nogods I had to steal a line from your post "He could have done the right thing, admitted the error, and stated that Clark would correct the situation – instead he acted like the irresponsible automobile manufacturers who said “the Corvair is no more dangerous than any other car…the Pinto doesn’t explode on impact….consumers don’t need seat belts…etc, etc.”
That is so funny in all the years of driving the one car I loved the most was the corvair and I did own a pinto one time in colleage I have a lot of fond memory's in but those care the alfa remero pinto bean is what we called it.
logged alot of miles in both.
Thanks for bringing them both back in mermory for me I am still laughing at the thing's I did in those car's at a young age.
dont want to rob the post just telling thanks now i need to go find pictures of those trips out west and those car's
thanks again
cavediver2
That is so funny in all the years of driving the one car I loved the most was the corvair and I did own a pinto one time in colleage I have a lot of fond memory's in but those care the alfa remero pinto bean is what we called it.
logged alot of miles in both.
lol cavedriver2 - maybe Ralph Nader will write a book about hammocks called "unsafe at any sleep"
I also agree with Spencer's comment, "People should spend less time complaining on forums and more time talking to the people who can actually change things.".
It is the people who spend time discussing issues - be they in online forum discussions, town hall meetings, street protests, or letters to government officials - that can change things. If the people who use hammocks and the people who make hammocks don't take the lead in responsible practices then other people might move to ban hammocks from being attached to trees. As noted in another post, that is the situation in Florida State Parks. Does Clark tell its customers that they can't use its super duper special slippery rope in Florida State Parks?
on the lighter side - i just came across an auction description for a travel hammock that states that it comes with a "special hammock hanging kit" that consist of 2 pieces of rope.
Cannibal
11-05-2007, 14:55
Corvairs are cool. I used to help a friend push his off the road everytime it overheated; which was about every 1/2 mile.
mataharihiker
11-05-2007, 17:09
on the lighter side - i just came across an auction description for a travel hammock that states that it comes with a "special hammock hanging kit" that consist of 2 pieces of rope.
ooh, I want one like that...hahahahahahahaha....:p
Hey - we can be effective - the discussion about tree straps on this forum resulted in Clark adding them as an accessory to its website.
http://www.junglehammock.com/accessories.php
We owe ourselves a pat on the back.
NCPatrick
11-05-2007, 20:20
So are they nylon or polypro?
So are they nylon or polypro?
I don't know...but if I had to guess...I'd guess...cotton...:D
Just Jeff
11-06-2007, 07:01
I've been on the other end of this debate before - where Clark is right now. A simple misunderstanding and oversight on my part cause a bit of a stir and caused people to question my integrity. And rightly so, given their interpretation of what happened. Even though I intended no such thing, I can certainly see how it appeared that way at the time, and any explanations I gave appeared to be...well, just what Clark's appear to be now - excuses. (This whole mess ended with me adding the gear hammock pack cover disclosure at the bottom of my JRB 3 Season Set review on BGT.)
The strength of forums like these is freedom to criticize where appropriate and praise where deserved. In this case, it appears that some criticism of business practices is appropriate...but if we want to keep the quality of our forums up we have to recognize the fine line between criticism where it's deserved and simple manufacturer bashing. Looks like the guy made a mistake in marketing and needs to train his customer service reps better.
But, having been in his position before, I'd ask you all to make your points and let the issue die. No need to turn this into the repeated bashing on the same points that has happened to other manufacturers here. Criticism is useful to the community when it's timely and appropriate. Repeated criticism on the same issue is not. He's replied to a request from one of his customers, probably knowing it would be posted here, and he's added the straps to his website. And we've pointed out to him that the community will give free advertising when it's deserved, and will hold him accountable for responsible business practices when it's appropriate. Let's call that progress and move on.
We haven't crossed that line yet, and this post certainly isn't aimed at any particular individuals. I'm just trying to prevent the arguments that have happened in the past, and to keep the forums a positive place to exchange useful information. And a big thanks to everyone for their participation here...the people are what make it such a valuable resource and an enjoyable place to spend time when we can't be out in the woods.
Just Jeff,
Nice post. I think it covers the high points.
I'd also add, that as a small business owner, its important to really monitor the "appearance" of integrity as well as the fact of it. The best route for anyone is to make sure that everything they do is only going to improve the integrity that backs it up.
Being proactive is by far the best way to approach this. And events like this can be learning experiences as long as it doesn't degenerate into a conflict where the sides become entrenched and defensive.
riverbruce
11-06-2007, 10:04
I too wish to express my appreciation for your comments Jeff. I was the one who originally posted the link to the podcast. Thanks for both your wisdom and candor. I enjoyed listening to the podcast and thought others might as well. In fact, there are several other great podcasts on the Practical Backpacking site. Let's make sure that we continue to hang hammocks and not people. :)