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turk
11-06-2007, 21:50
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Introduction:
Extreme winter weather has been the holy grail of hammock hanging pioneers.

For the absolute lowest temperatures in the worst winds, the ground dwellers had us heavily outgunned. To tame the hostile winter nights, heavy canvas tents and steel barrel wood burning stoves coined the term 'hot-tent' and eventually paved the way to todays more innovative and certainly lighter advancements such as the Kifaru tipis, Black Diamond Megamid or Titanium Goat Vertex - all top choices for conversion to hot-tents for ground dwellers. Us die-hard hammock users were left swinging in a very chill breeze.

That is .... until now .... *drum roll* .....

Introducing a new and innovative Jacks R Better prototype hammock shelter.

http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_ext_1.JPG
Product: JRB - Fire Resistant Winter Hammock Tent
Manufacturer: Jacks R Better, LLC
Model: This review is for a prototype version.
Weight: 4 lbs+

Over the next several months, it is my sincere pleasure to be able to showcase this very unique shelter and provide a full field test review. I will update this article as I go through the review process and push at the boundaries of extreme winter temps. I will share all my successes and especially my failures. I hope you might find some part of it exciting, informative or failing either of those, at least amusing. So .. lets get down to business.

Features & Design:

This hammock tent is based on an 11ft folded hexagon. The pole-less shelter is designed to provide a fully enclosed living space around a hammock. The design of this tent is such that it is able to accommodate several unique pitching options covering a very impressive spectrum of possibilities. The fire retardant material is a great choice for conversion into a 'hot-tent', by adding a wood burning box stove.

The most unique feature of this shelter is its versatility in physical dimensions. The tent is designed in such a way, that the user has a range of control over the length, width, and to a lesser degree, the height of the structure.
The tent can be pitched in 'long and narrow' mode. Thus basically making a long tube-like room that fully encapsulates one hammocker. You may remember this pic JustJeff snapped at last years Mt rogers group hang, that displays this well
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/2/20070127MtRogers-23.JPG

The tent can also be pitched in a 'wide mode' to accommodate 2 hammocks side-by-side, or to provide additional living space and gear storage.
http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_int_5.JPG
Shown above, about to set up my second hammock on the other half of
the doorway. There is just enough room for two hammocks, that you don't
have to bump hips all night.
In 'wide mode' the tent offers luxurious accommodation and living space for one hammocker, one box-stove and a large supply of firewood and gear. Or one hammocker, one ground dweller, box-stove , firewood and gear for two at 'mountaineering standards' of space.
http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_int_1.JPG

Other well implemented design features include:
http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_ext_3.JPG
- cat-cut roof provides a taunt perfect noise-free pitch and easily
deflects rain. (*Current testing results of snow loads and effects of heavy,
and wet snow will be reported on with next update)
http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_ext_4.JPG
- 2 full length, omni-tape opposing doors, that can be pitched full open
to add 3ft additional side coverage to one end. Or 6ft of additional coverage
with both doors open.
http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_ext_6.JPG
- large noseeum mesh end vents provide a large surface area to square footage ratio for easy ventilation and combat against condensation.
http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_ext_5.JPG
- storm flaps with guy-outs to protect mesh vents from driving rain
http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_ext_7.JPG
- second row of stake-out loops for pitching on steep terrain, or to
accommodate the swell at the base of a tree, in a tightly spaced pitch.


Life Inside:
Give me a plaid smoking jacket and some fuzzy slippers, ...THIS IS THE GOOD LIFE. I feel like the Hugh Hefner of hammock hangers. This is the cadillac, of hammock shelters. In all the photos of this review I am using a large model all titanium collapsible woodstove made by Titanium Goat.
http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_int_3.JPG

http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_int_4.JPG

http://www.ehko.info/JRBHT_int_7.JPG

Gear-Test and Review Goals:

1. To provide proof-of-concept gear test and review data of this product
in extreme cold, and real-world winter conditions.

2. To learn and develop the techniques and skills applicable to a fully enclosed hammock shelter, extreme cold weather camping, and the use of a woodstove in the hammock shelter. To provide feedback and summary conclusions to all of the above.

3. To determine the overall effectiveness of the entire heated-hammock system and provide a summary comparison to a ground based heated tent system.


Current Testing Update
http://ehko.info/HQ_jrb_christmas.jpg
Testing Current to - Jan 7th 2008

Total nights spent in the JRB Hammock tent: 13
- nights spent as part of backyard testing: 10
- nights spent in actual field conditions: 3
Coldest ambient conditions tested: 11 deg F. (accounting for wind-chill)
Highest wind conditions tested: 21 mph
Highest snow-fall while testing: 2.5 "

What's Good:
- the versatile pitch. Being able to "tweak" the dimensions.

- omni-tape doors, are hands down soooo much better than velcro doors.

- The 4 end vents have provided ample ventilation. Absolutely no
condensation issues to report.

- ultimate privacy. Being completely enclosed is great for personal privacy. Nobody can catch a free glimpse of your birthday suit (unless you want them to) while dressing and undressing. Also those 2AM calls of nature, don't REALLY have to be taken outside. Did I mention its a BIG shelter :D Plenty
of room for a cat hole.

- cooking on the stove while still in my bed !

What's Not so Good:
- the weight. Lets face it. The tent is hefty. In fact for marketing I am going to suggest that is is marketed as a base-camp shelter. However, if used in conjunction with a pulk or sled in winter conditions, the weight penalty is quicky lessened, if not negated completely. Still, I can see the demand for a silnylon version of this tent being much higher and appealing to a greater number of people overall.

- Roof Jack/ Not Standard. - I am somewhat worried about the demand for this tent in a fire-resistant fabric. The only people that are going to want this tent, in this fabric, are those interested in making into a 'heated hammock tent.' That being said, without a roof jack coming as a standard feature from JRB, the market is further narrowed to people willing to modify the structure with DIY skills, or paying to have the tent modified for the stove jack. Personally, I think if this version of this tent makes it to production.. it NEEDS to come with a standard, or at least optional pre-installed roof jack for stove.



Testing hurdles and obstacles thus far:

1. - The most difficult aspect of testing to date has been trying to gauge the effectiveness of the ti-goat woodstove as a reliable and dependable source of heat. I feel that in early testing, I set the bar too high in trying to determine the least amount of insulation I could use with my sleep system, by depending on the heat output of the stove in a sustained all-night fire. I will continue this line of testing, but it will be at a much later date. I have to feel completely confident in my results of more basic levels of testing, before moving on to testing ideas and concepts like "can I remove insulation and some gear - because I have a stove? "

That being said, I have shifted my mode of testing at this time to focus on how the tent performs in unheated sleeping conditions. I will be reporting on heated conditions during waking hours to perform such tasks as cooking, drying equipment, and enjoying leisure time in a warm enviroment.

Until I can provide confident test results for unheated performance on the shelter, I will treat the stove as a luxury feature, and NOT a key component of an overall system. Once I feel confident in my results, I will shift the focus of testing to a hybrid system of minimal insulation system, and using a sustained all-night fire in the stove.

2. - Snow melt has been the most surprising and frustrating component of testing a heated shelter. When setting up on fresh snow, everything is great. However after just a few hours, large quantities of snow inside the shelter will have melted to water. I have spent 4 nights in the shelter while snow is falling outside. Because of the extremely high heat output of the stove, I have not been anywhere close to the point at which snow is capable of sticking to the roof or walls of the shelter, without turning to water within a few seconds - to minutes.

Some questions have been raised as to snow loading on the roof of the shelter. The exhaust exiting the chimney of the stove is around 300 deg F. When setup under over-hanging tree limbs, especially those that are capable of holding large snow loads (spruce, pine etc) ... the exhaust heat from the stove will warm the overhead branches making the snow, wet and heavy... long story- short... - I have had large quantities of snow come crashing down on the roof. While scaring the pants off me every time it has happened, there have been otherwise no ill effects. It has definitely become something to consider though for site selection prior to setup. On a related note - overhanging branches present a very real fire hazard. I have been extremely cautious about testing and carefully monitor the various spark arrestor screens used in my exhaust pipe. I absolutely WOULD NOT light a fire in the stove without some form of protection against sparks and airborne debris. Without these devices, starting an accidental fire outside of your shelter is not just possible but HIGHLY PROBABLE. This is not such a stringent concern for ground based heated tents, as they can set up away from trees. But in a heated hammock tent ... you always have at least 2 trees in your immediate area. Operating a safe fire will become a dedicated section unto itself in my final review and summary.

A last note on snow melt ... when you go to bed and allow the stove to extinguish itself and cool naturally, the melted water on the ground of the shelter quickly re-freezes. This has been the hardest learned lesson so far.
I have had to literally chisel and pry some of my gear off of the ground in the morning, upon discovering this most basic and obvious oversight. :D

3. - The area i am most lacking for data on is wind. More reports on wind, and the integrity of the structure, tie-outs, stove safety, etc will follow as dictated by mother nature, and my limitations of weekend testing.

4. - I am about ready to pit the structure, and my system against some
real Canadian winter conditions. Reports and reviews will follow the
conclusion of my mid Feb. subarctic trip. (discussed in another thread).


Further updates will follow as more testing is completed.




Notice and Disclaimer
- The product being reviewed and tested is a JRB prototype, and therefore may differ in some way from a future production model. (though I don't know of any planned changes or mods at this time)
- The addition of the roof jack and stove is a PERSONAL modification I have made to the JRB product. As such, I assume full responsibility for any damage or injury as a result of said modifications.








Cheers.

Turk.

headchange4u
11-06-2007, 21:56
That's a sweet looking outfit. That would make a nice semi-permanent hammock shelter.

hangnout
11-06-2007, 22:07
Turk, your the man for that test for sure!

Which stove in the link below do you have?

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/stoves.html

Reread the post and saw it was the large model

slowhike
11-06-2007, 23:06
nice review turk. that is a nice looking set up.
you're right, the trade off of less insulation would go a long ways in covering the extra weight of the fire resistant material.

i have a friend who has converted to hammocking, but does more hunting than back packing. this may be of interest to him.

the main concerns that stick in my mind at this point are...
1)... the need for a person using this kind of set up to learn & pay attention to the "learning curve" involved w/ the wood stove.
2)... the lack of pitch on the roof makes me wonder if a person in heavy snow might have problems w/ build up through the night (or through the day while they were out doing other things for that mater).

Just Jeff
11-07-2007, 06:41
Great input to the community - from you and from JRB.

Slowhike - I think a 70F tent is enough to melt the snow off the top...hopefully Turk will figure that out with his tests. Of course, that depends on keeping the fire stoked through the night.

slowhike
11-07-2007, 08:13
Great input to the community - from you and from JRB.

Slowhike - I think a 70F tent is enough to melt the snow off the top...hopefully Turk will figure that out with his tests. Of course, that depends on keeping the fire stoked through the night.

that's true. but if it's used as a base camp for several days & part of the time is spent else where, that might be a concern.... up there in Canada anyway. not much of a concern in the south east<g>.

kohburn
11-07-2007, 08:22
Turk, your the man for that test for sure!

Which stove in the link below do you have?

http://www.titaniumgoat.com/stoves.html

Reread the post and saw it was the large model

i like their round stove http://www.titaniumgoat.com/cstove.html - its something you could really take backpacking. i'd be tempted to do the old double drum setup though. you get a lot more heat out of the burn with a stacked drum like this.

http://www.vogelzang.com/images/BK50E.jpg

Cannibal
11-07-2007, 09:13
Oh man, that's cool! 50 degree difference in temps is quite impressive. 4 lbs is a lot, but I can see why it would be worth the weight. Kick *** review and I can't wait for more.

lyleb
11-07-2007, 10:07
This looks awesome for certain situations. Any idea of a price point goal? Or have you even considered that yet?

OldnSlow
11-07-2007, 10:58
Before I got the Hennesy, I was looking at Kifarus. This just eliminates the need for that purchase! A great idea, and a great looking tent/hammock

John

turk
01-07-2008, 23:40
I posted some updates today, because it was well over-due.
Rather than an the first simple "hey look, here is something new" ... it is slowly
turning in a review. Well, okay not yet. But its looking more like a "review in progress" now :D

I have a good deal of gathered data now. I just need to put it into some kind of review based format. For those interested. Stay tuned for more pics and updates.

There will be pant loads more pics, comments, charts, and data to follow.

turk
01-23-2008, 19:52
Major tragedy avoided.... narrowly this last weekend.
In preparation for my showshoe into Nunavut trip rapidly approaching, we did a dress-rehearsal weekend trip, using all of the equipment we planned to take.

I set a new personal low for myself in a hammock, fending off -20 deg F, and 20 mph winds, gusting to 25 mph. A poor comparison for what I am going to face, but the best I could do, close to home. Still pretty proud.

To make a long story short. I can say with absolute certainty that:
"JRB Tarp Tensioners WILL fail critically at -20F"

The rubber used in the tensioners stretched out like what can only be described as a "salt water taffy effect" When frozen they do not become brittle and snap, rather they stretch far beyond the usual 8"-10" of maximum tension. I measured one frozen tensioner at over just slightly over 17". All elastic effect is negated and the tensioners will remain in their elongated state until thawed. Miraculously, when I got them home, they returned to usual length and elasticity.

All 4 tensioners on the JRB hammock tent failed in this manner, causing a most serious incident with my Ti-goat stove inside the tent. Wind was gusting in spurts. At a key moment, around 11pm I failed to notice the slack in the walls of my tent. A wind gust took out the chimney pipe which was glowing a fierce orange as it was operating under maximum heat output using optimal firewood. I would estimate the temperature at the base of the chimney pipe well in excess of 1000 deg F.

The stove pipe came dislodged from the stove. (The pipe is secured directly in line, and supported by a single JRB tarp tensioner at the roof line. The stove tipped over and spilled burning embers inside the tent. The stove pipe tipped almost horizontal and was driven through the left hand wall of the tent like a knife through butter. The result was an almost perfect 3.5" hole through the wall of the tent. Far too dangerous to handle the stove pipe. I had to shed my fleece gloves, and find my over mits. This took many precious seconds as the stove pipe melted away the tent fabric. I had an earlier experience with fleece gloves and microfibre towels. Both will burst into flames if they come in contact with the stove during that intensity of burn. Too much lint on those kind of fabrics. Makes great tinder.

http://ehko.info/hq_jrbtent_burn_col.jpg

Thankfully nobody was seriously hurt, as three of us were lounging in the tent, deep in our cups at the time. I put the fire resistant material the tent is made of to the ultimate test. Had it been silnylon, .. I would have been in a most serious situation, and certainly would have had severe fire damage, if the structure could have been saved at all. This isn't so bad. I still have my tent. I can fix this :)

I have decided to cease all operation of the stove, while sleeping alone in the tent. Had the stove pipe come dislodged while I was asleep in my hammock, I might have gone up in flames inside my cocoon of underquilts.

Everything happened in the blink of an eye. We learned the hard way just how bad this kind of accident could be. Winter mittens will either burst into flames or melt instantly against hands when trying to quickly handle the pipe. Luckily titanium sheds its heat so quickly. Leather gloves are going into my equipment list of mandatory equipment for safety concerning the stove now.

I have also decided to build a bomb proof guy-out system just for the stove pipe using amsteel supports, and minimal 1/16" aircraft cable.

turk
01-23-2008, 19:59
My hiking buddy was also using my JRB 8x8 with 2 additional jrb tarp tensioners, that failed in exactly the same way. Late into the night, while asleep, the tensioners stretched way out and as a result the tarp was buffeted around and shredded the fabric just behind the outer edge seam.
http://ehko.info/hq_jrb_8x8_fail.jpg


I am now scrambling to find an adequate tensioning system that uses no rubber, and can be manipulated with gloves on.

I will have to perform a make-shift patch on the JRB tent as there is no time to obtain any of the fire resistant fabric. The 8x8 tarp is probably a write-off. But perhaps I can sew a reinforcement patch around the damaged area with some sil.

slowhike
01-23-2008, 20:11
so i guess you'll be staying away from tarp tensioners of any kind in that kind of temp & wind combo.

maybe a weight hanging on the line would provide a safer tension.
several times in high wind i've laid decent sized logs across the guy lines.
using a weight in a reasonable range allows the line to lift slightly under a heavy gust, providing some forgiveness.
but at the same time adds quite a bit of extra security to the guy line. works great.

a sack of packed snow might work.

i'm guessing you are you going to be patching the hole in the tent? i just looked back & saw the answer to that one.

glad yall weren't hurt.

headchange4u
01-23-2008, 20:24
That's a lesson learned the hard way. I'm glad that no one was hurt and that your gear is repairable and not a total loss.

Your safest bet may be just to forget tensioners altogether and just secure the guy lines to something solid and tie them off. The small amount of slack that fabric stretch cause is nothing compared to a tensioner failing like that and damaging your setup. It's pretty quick and easy to re-tie the lines to take up that slack, even with gloves on. I totally agree that the pipe needs to be secured to be bomb proof.

If you had been on the trail it in those temps, with that kind of failure, it could've been really bad.

BillyBob58
01-23-2008, 23:00
Wow oh WOW! Thank God for the dress rehearsal closer to home!

GrizzlyAdams
01-24-2008, 02:40
Turk, you're living out there on the edge. Sure am glad you survive your disasters to liven up our lives.

Seriously though, glad you're OK, some real potential for harm in your last encounter. I'm impressed that your brain worked fast enough to know not to just go for the stove pipe without better gloves. Even given past experience, I wouldn't trust my nuggen to be so on the up-take so fast. "Ah duh. What's going on :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: " is more my immediate reaction to things that call for quick thinking and fast action.

Grizz

Coffee
01-24-2008, 03:03
That's crazy. I can honestly say that you go out in temps this southern boy doesn't like to go in. I heard a great saying though, the weather is never too bad just your clothes/gear.

Anyways. I had my DIY tensioners fail in a similar way in cold temps. They also returned to shape when warmed. I used excercise tubbing. You should contact JRB if they don't chime in. I think they would be interested in knowing the extreme limits of their gear.

I wonder if rubber tubes from a tire would work. That would seem to me to be a stronger material. Slowhikes idea of a weight as worked for me a couple of times. You could rig up something where you tie a wieght to the guy line to keep it in place in high winds.

Cannibal
01-24-2008, 09:00
Wow! I've not been that cold with the tensioners, but have been about 7 below 0F and didn't notice any issues. Course, I was asleep when it was that temp. I wonder if they did fail, but were warm enough by morning to appear fine.

Sooooo glad you made it through without harm.

steene
01-24-2008, 09:24
I wonder if some kind of light spring would be acceptable as a replacement tensioner. Just throwing that out there as a possibility.

Coffee
01-24-2008, 10:20
I wonder if some kind of light spring would be acceptable as a replacement tensioner. Just throwing that out there as a possibility.

That sounds like a good idea. Maybe a spring inside of some cylinder. The cylinder would help keep the mosture off. Then again at temps that low it may not matter.

headchange4u
02-28-2008, 11:02
Here's an interesting tidbit for those interested in this tarp tent. Tinny from Mini Bull Designs has bee experimenting with a "Hooch Heater" or a stove made to heat his Hasty Hooches shelters made from one of the new Heineken mini kegs. May be a DIY stove to use instead of one of the Titanium Goat stoves.

Here's the link (http://www.minibulldesign.com/myadventure/index.php?blogid=1&archive=2008-02)(scroll down to Feb 23.)

oetzi
02-29-2008, 14:46
Looks nice, but seen from a purely functional point of view: wouldnt any ordinary double-walled tent plus an Exped DAM 7 be simpler?