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Cuffs
11-15-2007, 17:43
I found a supplier of 1/4" CCF sold by the linear yard, about 5' wide.

1. Is 1/4" thick enough to provide good insulation or should I use some spray adhesive and double its thickness?

2. I have a HH Desert Rat. Can anyone provide me a template with which to cut this monster? I am hoping to cut it in the off-set diamond (asym) that is the HH, then cut the slit up the center and have just one pad that I can enter/exit through.

3. Any other ideas about this stuff?

Otter1
11-15-2007, 19:06
I found a supplier of 1/4" CCF sold by the linear yard, about 5' wide.

1. Is 1/4" thick enough to provide good insulation or should I use some spray adhesive and double its thickness?

2. I have a HH Desert Rat. Can anyone provide me a template with which to cut this monster? I am hoping to cut it in the off-set diamond (asym) that is the HH, then cut the slit up the center and have just one pad that I can enter/exit through.

3. Any other ideas about this stuff?

Thickness should be fine for moderate temps. One suggestion on the slit: Instead of a slit, just leave off the foam to the right of the slit - you don't need it anyway. This will save bulk & a little weight.

nogods
11-15-2007, 20:11
I found a supplier of 1/4" CCF sold by the linear yard, about 5' wide.




who is the supplier?

FanaticFringer
11-15-2007, 20:42
I found a supplier of 1/4" CCF sold by the linear yard, about 5' wide.

1. Is 1/4" thick enough to provide good insulation or should I use some spray adhesive and double its thickness?

2. I have a HH Desert Rat. Can anyone provide me a template with which to cut this monster? I am hoping to cut it in the off-set diamond (asym) that is the HH, then cut the slit up the center and have just one pad that I can enter/exit through.

3. Any other ideas about this stuff?

Depending on how cold/warm natured you are, a 1/4" pad might take you down to 55 degrees or so.
I think a cheaper and better option is to just get or make a SPE and you can add up to 3" thickness in pad(s)
I would think that cutting a slit in the center of the pad might make the pad prone to eventually tearing.

Take-a-knee
11-15-2007, 21:03
A 1/4in pad with my Exped Wallcreeper bag will keep me toasty at 45F, down to 40 without adding clothes. YMMV. If you lie on the diagonal in your hennessy why do you need foam on the side of the slit you aren't lying on? It won't stay lined up with the slit anyway.

Cuffs
11-16-2007, 07:46
(In my mind) I was hoping to just cut the pad to the shape of the bottom of the HH. I have to be warm to sleep, so the more coverage the better, no?

I was out this past weekend with: HH, fly-hung very close to the HH, ridgerest, older model KAQ, 15* Monbell down bag and several layers of fleece clothing including a hat.

This was "car camping." Im trying to think ahead to having to carry all this stuff... I want to be warm, but carry as light as possible...

Cuffs
11-16-2007, 08:24
who is the supplier?

Well… normally I would not want to give away all my secrets, but I think it might be ok just this one time!

At first, I thought if I had stumbled into a good thing, I could make a buck or two and re-sell this stuff. But its size does not allow me to do that! Because of its width (5’) it barely fit in the back seat of my car! There is no way I would be able to ship this stuff.

However, this supplier does ship! (usually via FedEx ground)
Here’s their info:

(they are an automotive fabric supplier & other upholstery fabrics)
MASCO Fabrics Inc.
202 12th Street South
Birmingham, AL 35233
800-326-2726
www.mascofabrics.com

The material is:

VT Padding ¼”

The pad is approx. 5 feet wide and is sold by the linear yard @ $5.95/yd (basically you get a 3’ x 5’ piece for $6) I do not know what the shipping costs are, as I picked mine up at the store…

(VT=vinyl top) this is the padding that goes under the vinyl tops on the roof of cars…
The color changes by the roll. They had white on display, but the stock was dark grey. They say at other times it could be blue or green… you don’t get to pick, you get what they have at the time…

On a side note… I did sort through all the foam stuff they had and they did not have anything else that would suffice for what we (hangers) are looking for. Most others were open-cell or if it was ccf, it was almost 2” thick and very rigid.

Cannibal
11-16-2007, 08:31
(In my mind) I was hoping to just cut the pad to the shape of the bottom of the HH. I have to be warm to sleep, so the more coverage the better, no?

That's a lot of pad to try to pack, or attach to your pack. It would be kind of luxurious for car camping though.

Cuffs
11-16-2007, 08:46
OK, so help me figure out how to make it work!

hangnout
11-16-2007, 08:58
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1905&page=5&highlight=pad+pocket

Look at post #47 on the thread linked above for some good ideas on how to use the foam to make a pad

Cannibal
11-16-2007, 09:02
Couldn't you just lay your rat out upside down on the floor and make a template that way? I think you can buy that brown shipping paper in 60" width; I'd get some of that and cut a pattern.

I don't know what to tell you about packing it. I'm still trying to figure the best way to pack my wallyworld blue pad; stupid thing!

Rapt
11-16-2007, 09:10
The best way to pack a pad is to leave it at home and bring an underquilt. :)

Seriously there's a reason why its either used as part of the pack suspension in ultralight packs or you see them rolled up and tied on the outside. They really are bulky and awkward.

That's why I'm leaning towards underquilts. They are more packable.

Cuffs
11-16-2007, 10:13
OH.... Still new to this insulation thing...

I can use either the UQ OR the pad, but I dont need both?

I was looking at the pad idea after seeing some of the photos of what others were trying to make by adding the "wings" on pads to wrap around and cover more area than the standard width pad...

For now, the pad is cheap. I really would like to get a down UQ, but its $$$!

Fiddleback
11-16-2007, 10:41
I use a 60 X 40 X 1/4" Oware pad in my Hennessy. There's some nice benefits from that extra width; additional insulation and wind block as it cups around the shoulders. I also find that the Oware I use doesn't slip in the hammock...part of that may be the foam's characteristics but I think much of the non-slippage can be attributed to the size of the pad...there's no place for it to go.;) In any case, I never wrestle with the pad to keep it in place. With my sleep system, the pad can get me to the mid-20s before I feel cold coming through, YMMV.

But its bulk and packing issues are a real bummer. For the longest time I had no other solution than a big roll of foam hanging off the outside of my pack. But some years ago, Santa brought me a LuxuryLite pack. The pad is easily folded and inserted into an extra-large cylinder and, once it unfolds/expands to fill the space of the cylinder, there's lots of room for the hammock and other stuff.

Oware's pad is a Plastizote cross linked closed cell foam. They no longer offer a 1/4" thickness but their 3/16" offering saves an ounce and no doubt helps a little with the packing issue.

FB

Cannibal
11-16-2007, 11:08
Yes, UQs are way better comfort wise IMO. But, as much as I dislike the pads, they do have their uses and they are light for the warmth provided. I'm planning to use a combination of the two on my thru; a torso UQ and folded pad for the legs. I can always unfold the pad for those really cold nights and use it in concert with the UQ to stay nice and toasty.

But, yeah the bulk is a huge trade-off. I roll mine into a tube and put inside my Catalyst. There is still room for the rest of my load (barely) and it does add another layer in the fight against wet. It requires me to really pay attention when loading my pack; I can't just toss stuff in there anymore, I actually have to 'pack'.

Rapt
11-16-2007, 11:23
You won't NEED both... Its your call if you want both. Like Cannibal.

I'm still working on a "system" but I don't like the pad in the hammock feel. So I'm leaning away from that. With proper work I think I can get away without anything like that.

Cannibal
11-16-2007, 11:28
I agree with Rapt, with the right UQ or pod type thing you should be just fine without a pad. I wouldn't carry one on a normal hike, but grams is grams on a thru.

cameronjreed
11-16-2007, 11:43
I just ordered 1.5 yds of this stuff....
Shipping actually cost more than the material did.
Should be fun to use for different insulation experiments.

Thanks for the info.:)

FanaticFringer
11-16-2007, 16:23
When I use an underquilt (JRB Nest) at temps around 40 or lower, I would never think of not bringing a pad for added insulation if needed. Better safe than sorry.

Rapt
11-16-2007, 17:33
Or you could bring a warmer under quilt.... I personally see pads as POOR insulation for weight/bulk options as compared to a good down quilt.

FanaticFringer
11-16-2007, 17:39
Or you could bring a warmer under quilt.... I personally see pads as POOR insulation for weight/bulk options as compared to a good down quilt.

Pads are a great insulation for weight. Much better than underquilts per weight.
Bringing a warmer underquilt=buying another underquilt such as a JRB Rocky Mtn. Sniveler. Not in my budget right now. I would still have my pad as I would probably need it under 20 degrees.

warbonnetguy
11-16-2007, 20:01
Or you could bring a warmer under quilt.... I personally see pads as POOR insulation for weight/bulk options as compared to a good down quilt.

no way, a ccf pad will take you to much lower temps for the same weight than a down uq will.


i got a ccf pad thats almost 3/8" (5/16" actually) and it weighs 8.5 oz. it goes down somewhere into the 30's. it's not even mummy cut.

Cuffs
11-16-2007, 20:05
I dont wan to argue the differences between a UQ vs pad... I just happen to have a pad at this time and want to make it work for the time being until I can afford a fancy down UQ....

kohburn
11-17-2007, 11:11
no way, a ccf pad will take you to much lower temps for the same weight than a down uq will.


i got a ccf pad thats almost 3/8" (5/16" actually) and it weighs 8.5 oz. it goes down somewhere into the 30's. it's not even mummy cut.

yeah they are light, but very bulky. so it ends up coming down to personal prefferance and funding.

Rapt
11-20-2007, 11:21
Hmmm...

I'll have to go back and check R values again...

kohburn
11-20-2007, 13:20
of course R value is only conduction - ccf pads also block convection and vapor. if the down underquilt was air tight it would be more effective. however it may then have some condensation problems on the warm side like some people have with the pads.

warbonnetguy
11-24-2007, 00:19
uq's also have a shell, baffels, and a suspension, and some degree of ineffiency. all these jack up the weight beyond the r-values of down vs. ccf, which i am interested in hearing by the way.

Aren't r-values given on a per inch rating? you would have to figure the weight of ccf per inch.

also, you will need a wider uq than you would a ccf pad.

warbonnetguy
11-24-2007, 00:23
of course R value is only conduction - ccf pads also block convection and vapor. if the down underquilt was air tight it would be more effective. however it may then have some condensation problems on the warm side like some people have with the pads.


i have found my sil uq is just inefficient enough that vapor can escape enough to avoid any condensation. it fits pretty snug, but it doesn't have a seal around the edges or anything, and since it's not actually touching your skin, it breathes just enough, i've never had any condensation.

GrizzlyAdams
11-24-2007, 01:16
Yes, UQs are way better comfort wise IMO. But, as much as I dislike the pads, they do have their uses and they are light for the warmth provided. I'm planning to use a combination of the two on my thru; a torso UQ and folded pad for the legs. I can always unfold the pad for those really cold nights and use it in concert with the UQ to stay nice and toasty.

But, yeah the bulk is a huge trade-off. I roll mine into a tube and put inside my Catalyst. There is still room for the rest of my load (barely) and it does add another layer in the fight against wet. It requires me to really pay attention when loading my pack; I can't just toss stuff in there anymore, I actually have to 'pack'.

missed this the first time. I too bemoan the bulk of underquilts. Something I routinely have done with a pad is roll it up and attach on the outside of the pack. So I was musing that perhaps I could do something like that with an underquilt if I had a waterproof tube, e.g. made of sil and seam sealed (or the low-tech version : in a plastic bag, stuffed into a tube. ) A long cylinder is the right shape for exterior attachment to a pack.

Grizz

Cannibal
11-24-2007, 01:56
That there is a mighty fine idea Grizz. Sounds like a good project for next week; I'll let you know if it works.

warbonnetguy
11-24-2007, 19:23
my sil one was like that, i had 2 elastic loops at the end. i just fold in half and then roll it up and just flip the elastic loops over the ends of the roll. it's sil, so is waterproof.

the one i'm making now is breathable, but has an attachable sil shell. you just make sure the sil shell is on there before you roll it up. this requires taking the sil shell along every time, or rolling it up without it on.

Cuffs
12-01-2007, 22:33
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1905&page=5&highlight=pad+pocket

Look at post #47 on the thread linked above for some good ideas on how to use the foam to make a pad

I JUST got over there... very neat idea!! Off to the cutting board!

Just Jeff
12-01-2007, 22:55
Bemoan the bulk of an underquilt?! Compared to WHAT?! :eek:

Cuffs
12-02-2007, 09:56
Its not the bulk of the a UQ, right now, its just the cost!!

Spock
12-02-2007, 15:02
Having used both down underquilts and sewn-on polyester insulation, I have reverted completely to foam for hammocking at temps down to 20F. The foam I use to freezing is a 3/8X24X72 Ozark Trails from Walmart. It weighs 11 ounces even in that large size. Below 28F, I have used the 0.5 inch Ozark Trails egg-carton - also 24X72. It weighs 15 ounces. In both cases, I also carry two small rectangles of foam to tuck under body parts that get off the foam.

All in all, the foam works better for me. It is part of my pack system; it insulates better than underquilts or attached quilting (as far as I can tell); It has a lower fiddle factor than an underquilt; it is lighter than the alternatives. This is not theoretical, but tested in 6 months of trail time.

That said, foams differ in R value. No telling what the value of your foam may be.

Cuffs
12-02-2007, 15:05
For those who use padding, what would be YOUR ideal width at the shoulders?

warbonnetguy
12-02-2007, 16:13
29" ccf, 39" uq