View Full Version : should i pop for sleep system?
SNIPERFX
10-14-2010, 17:06
have a hh and i was wondering if i should pop for the full sleep system. i doubt that i will be doing winter camps. but the last thing i want is to get popsicled in the woods...what are your thoughts on this? and do you have other systems that might be more economical without the added weight and bulk.. i am sorry for all the newbie questions, as i am sure you have heard them all before... part of the reason is, i have two friends that are going with me.. they are grounders, and i would like to convert them over to our side. this is why i am asking.. so that i can give them propper intel....and also because since this will be my first hang, i am feeling a little girlie about it.lollolol...someone get me a dress...:D
I don't have any direct experience with the Hennessy cold weather system (the sheet that slides into the double layer, right?). If expense is your main worry, there are less expensive alternatives. Even a closed-cell foam (CCF) pad from WalMart will do you as good and will work well and is fairly light. I think the sleep system is not much different than reflectix or that aluminized bubble wrap you can find at Home Depot.
Newbies ask newbie questions. Then they aren't newbies anymore, and start answering newbie questions. Don't worry about it and certainly don't apologize for it.
I have the Hennessy Supershelter and have enjoyed the warmth it provides. Compared to an underquilt, it is slightly slower to setup, slightly bulkier in a backpack, and nearly impossible to get back in to the stuff sack. There are also three pieces, and I've damaged two OCF pads and the stuff sack itself trying to get it in the stuff sack.
For the same price, you can get a synthetic underquilt from Arrowhead For $50-60 more Warbonnet or Hammockgear are down options. This is the route I took. You'll need some insulation even in warm weather, and like Dejoha said, a CCF pad works well and is likely the cheapest by far at $8-16, and possibly the lightest as well.
guySmiley
10-14-2010, 21:59
IMO, a Thermarest Neoair, partially inflated (I suggest the small one. It's easier to wrangle inside the hammock.) will be less expensive and more effective.
Yeah skip the SS...and get an UQ
for the same price as the SS i would get a UQ from Paul....
and look at it this way...if you get a WBBB you can use the UQ with that...the SS is limited to the HH
also the SS is hit or miss...some ppl love it...some ppl had no luck with it ;)
SNIPERFX
10-15-2010, 09:50
Yeah skip the SS...and get an UQ
for the same price as the SS i would get a UQ from Paul....
and look at it this way...if you get a WBBB you can use the UQ with that...the SS is limited to the HH
also the SS is hit or miss...some ppl love it...some ppl had no luck with it ;)
who is paul? and how do i contact him...?
Buffalo Skipper
10-15-2010, 10:04
Paul is PGibson. His website is Arrowhead Equipment (http://arrowheadequipment.webs.com/)
He is active on the forum. PM him or contact him through his website.
The supershelter is really terrible. The ingredients are good but the recipe isn't. The open cell foam is extremely finicky, fragile, not warm, and almost non-re-packable. The undercover is pretty nice, but it's value derives from the fact that the fabric it's made out of is already waterproof in the first place. You could wrap up in your poncho for the same functional effect and for much cheaper. An underquilt doesn't even physically have these kinds of options for criticism. A good underquilt will be simple and warm, and a good supershelter will just be a bunch of ineffective and very expensive trash you have to lug around. With a supershelter I think you'll be forced to try to excuse the reasons why you slept cold in order to proudly justify its cost, and with a good underquilt you just don't have to bother with the symptoms of buyer's remorse.
BillyBob58
10-16-2010, 08:22
The supershelter is really terrible. The ingredients are good but the recipe isn't. The open cell foam is extremely finicky, fragile, not warm, and almost non-re-packable. The undercover is pretty nice, but it's value derives from the fact that the fabric it's made out of is already waterproof in the first place. You could wrap up in your poncho for the same functional effect and for much cheaper. An underquilt doesn't even physically have these kinds of options for criticism. A good underquilt will be simple and warm, and a good supershelter will just be a bunch of ineffective and very expensive trash you have to lug around. With a supershelter I think you'll be forced to try to excuse the reasons why you slept cold in order to proudly justify its cost, and with a good underquilt you just don't have to bother with the symptoms of buyer's remorse.
Are you basing that on personal experience? You may well be, as a number of folks have not been happy with their SSs. But quite a few others have been more than satisfied with it, especially when they consider cost and resistance to wind and rain built into the system.
You might want to search for kwpapke's post's on SS use. He use an augmented SS at very frigid temps, including one night camping wit Shug at minus 27F.
Just the other day I threw my SS back onto my 1st hammock, a UL Explorer. It is the original pad I got several years ago. Fragile indeed, and it has a couple of small holes in it that I have not bothered to patch. And a couple of others that I have patched with seam sealer. It is ugly, but function has not been affected (effected?) enough for me to bother getting a new pad.
After the 1st time ( except just to prove I could do it ) , I never bothered trying to stuff that pad back in it's sack. Why bother? Once I put the UC and pad and space blanket on the hammock, it stays there until hot weather. I just stuff the entire system ( sometimes even with my TQ ) into a large stuff sack. It couldn't be easier. Then when time to make camp, I tie one end to one tree, walk the stuff sack to the other tree and tie on, and the HHSS is ready for me to hop in and go to bed. Although sometimes, if wanting to use Snakeskins with just my hammock and UC, I take the pad out, put it in a compression stuff sack with ease, and compress it after it is in the sack. No big deal really. But trying every morning to get the pad back in the sack it shipped in would be quite a hassle. Probably leading to pad damage. But why bother? Just put it in a larger sack, and then compress that as needed.
when you say "The open cell foam is ... not warm", I ask what is warmer at 5.5 oz FULL length for ULBP/Expedition? Even once you add the 2 oz space blanket, you are at 7.5 oz full length. What is warmer considering many have been OK in the 40s and even 30s and a few at much colder temps? Even once you add a ULBP UC for another 7.5 oz, you are at 15 oz for a full length UQ/rain/weather shield. Other than maybe the still being experimented with IX offerings, what is warmer at 15 oz full length? And if a bit warmer, what offers the wind/rain protection at the same price and weight?
I love my MW4, and PeaPod, and torso length Climashield "Yeti". I most likely to choose any one of them over the SS, depending on conditions. They each have some major selling points. But I would not hesitate to use my most basic non-augmented SS in the 30s or 40s, and I know I will be warm enough. By adding a jacket or torso/kidney pads or using many other tricks I can go much colder. I have found that the pad, when soaked, will be bone dry very quickly if you can get a little sun to it.
And when it comes to protection from wind and rain while using the smallest HH tarp, I think it can not be beat.
It seems to me the biggest drawback to the HHSS is the hit or miss aspect, depending on who is using it. I don't know the reason, but some are cold and have condensation problems, while others- like RamblinRev and others, have even more success with it than I do. I don't know why there is such an individual difference, but it exists.
FreeTheWeasel
10-17-2010, 00:08
Listen to BillyBob! He has counseled me many times over the years on my SuperShelter technique which still needs improvement.
I used it most recently on a trip where temperatures went no lower than the low 50's and I was super comfortable. I've had a bit more trouble getting into the 30's but I've done it. As BillyBob mentions, others have added components and brought the augmented system down to unimaginable temperatures. It can be done.
That said, I'm trying to move exclusively to quilts. I get a fair degree of condensation in my SuperShelter which really isn't a problem, but I find the quilts to be more comfortable.
FreeTheWeasel
BillyBob58
10-17-2010, 08:17
Listen to BillyBob! He has counseled me many times over the years on my SuperShelter technique which still needs improvement.
I used it most recently on a trip where temperatures went no lower than the low 50's and I was super comfortable. I've had a bit more trouble getting into the 30's but I've done it. As BillyBob mentions, others have added components and brought the augmented system down to unimaginable temperatures. It can be done.
That said, I'm trying to move exclusively to quilts. I get a fair degree of condensation in my SuperShelter which really isn't a problem, but I find the quilts to be more comfortable.
FreeTheWeasel
Hey there, FTW! I actually remember those SS discussions with you way back in the day. I think I was actually a SS noob myself not long before that and still learning what the SS tricks might be. Though really "tricks/augmentation" isn't needed until I start trying to go well below freezing.
Glad to hear you have been able to make it work for you and that you still sometimes use it. I'm like you, I have not used it much the last couple of years, because being a gear freak I have all of these other neat toys that work so well. Plus, the other big drawback someone else has mentioned: the SS is HH specific. Even certain HH model specific. And I have all of these non-HH hammocks, so........
Still, sometimes I still like to use my HH and find it pretty comfy. And sometimes I still think that if it is not going to be all that cold, say low 40s and above, but is going to be really windy and wet, I might still prefer to use the old SS. Plus, IX has become a new variable, either to augment or replace the HH pad. This needs some testing!
But, truthfully, especially if it is going to be way below freezing, I tend to just use my JRB MW4- and most especially with the BMBH. How efficient and easy that combo is! And of course, with my no net gathered end hammocks, the always works Pea Pod! Really hard to beat that one if you are serious about staying warm. And multi layers of Climashield in a torso length WB? Man oh man, good product, especially if it is going to be super wet.
But, still, the old SS has been fairly good for me, especially considering what you get for the money: pretty good insulation, easily augmented, and built in wind/rain/blowing snow protection.
3 nights this past week I slept in my WBBB with 3 season Yeti. My son slept in his HHULBP last night with the SS. I set it up for him. All the reasons came back to me why I really love my underquilt.
I do agree with Billy Bob the SS has worked and held me nice and warm down into the teens with layered clothing. But for simplicity, speed, space savings,less of agrivating state I would look at the underquilts. I believe Jacks are Better carries one that is made just for the HH. I am thinking that could be nice Christmas present for the Lone Hanger in my house. I would like to get the side zipper mod and change over to webbing for him also.
My 2 cents worth,
BEAS
FreeTheWeasel
10-17-2010, 14:33
Hey there, FTW! I actually remember those SS discussions with you way back in the day. I think I was actually a SS noob myself not long before that and still learning what the SS tricks might be. Though really "tricks/augmentation" isn't needed until I start trying to go well below freezing.
Something that you pointed out to me and I have yet to try (stubborn, I guess) is that the space blanket is critical for low temperature performance. One of these days I'll give it a shot, but like you, I'm reaching more and more for the quilts, especially as I've started to crank them out again.
Still, only two weeks ago, that super shelter kept me cozy and comfortable. It is an attractive package for the price so long as you appreciate its limitations and advantages. Oh, I should also mention that I have had very good customer service from Hennessy. I ripped my first supershelter pad and they sent me a new one for free. I even offered to pay for it, and they still sent it to me for free.
FreeTheWeasel
Flatland
10-17-2010, 14:54
Based on my limited understanding, I thought the SS prevented water from splashing up/wind-driven rain from getting the hammocker wet when using a minimal tarp like the HH stock one. Am I wrong about this? Though I am now using a UQ, it does seem that in a really bad storm with a small tarp (like my MLD UL hammock tarp) it could still get wet and have its performance adversely effected. Am I misunderstanding what the SS is?
BillyBob58
10-17-2010, 15:17
Something that you pointed out to me and I have yet to try (stubborn, I guess) is that the space blanket is critical for low temperature performance. One of these days I'll give it a shot, but like you, I'm reaching more and more for the quilts, especially as I've started to crank them out again.
Still, only two weeks ago, that super shelter kept me cozy and comfortable. It is an attractive package for the price so long as you appreciate its limitations and advantages. Oh, I should also mention that I have had very good customer service from Hennessy. I ripped my first supershelter pad and they sent me a new one for free. I even offered to pay for it, and they still sent it to me for free.
FreeTheWeasel
That is good cust. service alright.
But seems to me any SS success you have had is a miracle! ;) No space blanket? :scared: How have you kept from swimming in condensation? Well, I have used it once or twice without the SB early on, and I have also used just the UC (no pad) and no SB. But I must have just got lucky the couple of times with a pad/UC but no UC. On a 50 degree night in the super humid WA's Olympics ( like where you live), I left off the SB. Didn't think I needed it. I was toasty warm. But when I got up and out, I realized the foot of my pad and sleeping bag were soaked. I thought I was done for if it got cold. But the pad dried super quick, and so did the Polarguard bag. I used the SB rest of the trip and was bone dry, as usual for me.
Plus, I bet that SB ( favorite EMS Heat Sheet) would add 15*F to your warmth, 10 minimum.
BillyBob58
10-17-2010, 15:31
Based on my limited understanding, I thought the SS prevented water from splashing up/wind-driven rain from getting the hammocker wet when using a minimal tarp like the HH stock one. Am I wrong about this?
Nope, you are not wrong at all, IMO. It is a huge help, also at reducing wind chill dry or wet. You can have a very warm down or synthetic UQ, but wind will suck the warmth right out of them if you don't have your tarp set up correctly to block wind.
Though I am now using a UQ, it does seem that in a really bad storm with a small tarp (like my MLD UL hammock tarp) it could still get wet and have its performance adversely effected. Am I misunderstanding what the SS is?I think you understand it. You can for sure get your UQ wet from sideways wind driven rain or splashup with a tiny tarp, or even a big tarp set up poorly. And of course, where you set up ( exposed vs sheltered ) can make a big dif with any tarp.
A SS UC, or some other "weather shield" or sock (JRB, 2Qs for ex) can, IMO, greatly improve your odds of staying warm and dry in very windy conditions, most especially if using a smaller tarp.
And in the case of the SS, even with the stock tarp (but at least if attached to the prussicks anyway), you are pretty much completely covered with sil-nylon. The UC comes up high enough at the sides that it is almost in contact with the tarp, unless you have a really wide open wide tarp pitch.
I recently used my HH stock tarp tied to the trees. It was a nice tight pitch, hard to achieve when attached to the prussicks on the HH. But even though I tied the tarp lower than the hammock straps, I was reminded of how poor the coverage is with that tarp unless you attache to the hammock prussicks. Any side ways wind driven rain would have soaked me. I need to be close to the tarp ridge line for adequate coverage. I did not have the SS UC so I was also reminded of the poor coverage when it got real windy about 0400! That def cooled things off a bit!
Although I agree wholeheartedly with BB about the SS, i have left it for a JRB BMBH with Mt Washington 3 under quilt and Hudson River top quilt. I find it easier, quicker and more comfortable. IMHO.
BillyBob58
10-17-2010, 23:02
Although I agree wholeheartedly with BB about the SS, i have left it for a JRB BMBH with Mt Washington 3 under quilt and Hudson River top quilt. I find it easier, quicker and more comfortable. IMHO.
Hey, I can't fault you on that one, now can I? ;) Considering one of my all time favs is a BMBH with a MW4. That is a great combo, almost like one is custom made for the other! :rolleyes:
Are you basing that on personal experience?
Hey BillyBob, sorry I think I should have backed up my statement with some evidence. My wife and I both owned the "under" part of the super shelter system, that is the foam pad and the undercover. We also both had some space blankets that we used with the system, and as far as I could tell (and that my wife would echo), was that it didn't help and that it may have only accelerated the accumulation of breath condensation in the foam. We tried the system on a trip to the Smokies where it was kind of cold and then a trip to Sipsey where it was freezer cold, and on each trip we liked the system less and less.
For my wife, the fact that we had bought an insulation system that didn't do much other than look complicated and somewhat puffy was infuriating to her, and she let me know during the cold night and the next morning, when it was suddenly time to go home early. For me I wanted to make it work because I had just bought two of these things and thought that I was missing a crucial step or series of steps. Nope. I was homebound.
We weren't using these things in 40-50 temps, so this might negatively flavor my opinion of the supershelter. We were in the 30s-high30s when we used this system.
The first picture on the supershelter page on Hennessy's site is of a hammock dangling in a snowdrift. This is unrealistic and is a misleading advertising picture.
That said, I'm no longer trying to make the supershelter work for me.
BillyBob58
10-18-2010, 08:05
Hey BillyBob, sorry I think I should have backed up my statement with some evidence. My wife and I both owned the "under" part of the super shelter system, that is the foam pad and the undercover. We also both had some space blankets that we used with the system, and as far as I could tell (and that my wife would echo), was that it didn't help and that it may have only accelerated the accumulation of breath condensation in the foam. We tried the system on a trip to the Smokies where it was kind of cold and then a trip to Sipsey where it was freezer cold, and on each trip we liked the system less and less.
For my wife, the fact that we had bought an insulation system that didn't do much other than look complicated and somewhat puffy was infuriating to her, and she let me know during the cold night and the next morning, when it was suddenly time to go home early. For me I wanted to make it work because I had just bought two of these things and thought that I was missing a crucial step or series of steps. Nope. I was homebound.
We weren't using these things in 40-50 temps, so this might negatively flavor my opinion of the supershelter. We were in the 30s-high30s when we used this system.
The first picture on the supershelter page on Hennessy's site is of a hammock dangling in a snowdrift. This is unrealistic and is a misleading advertising picture.
That said, I'm no longer trying to make the supershelter work for me.
I figured you were basing it on personal experience, but just wanted to be sure. You definitely now belong to the group that has no use for the SS based on a bad experience.
The mystery remains: condensation IN the pad despite the space blanket(maybe even worse due to SB!). I have never had a drop of condensation under the SB, and at worst a drop or 3 on top of the SB, but mostly NONE. And I have slept from the teens ( while adding down vests and such below the pad) through the 40s-50s.
But you are not the only one who has had such an experience, so that's the way it is. But the "why" one user and not the other remains a mystery. You would think this would happen to every body.
BTW, SS users and SS hopefuls, something I have only recently realized: just like with most other UQs (Yeti, IX UQs etc) it is important to have the SS pad positioned correctly length wise and not too far towards the head. If to near the head, there will be some gaps develop. With the top edge down closer to the shoulders, it forms a nice tight fit around my shoulders.
Silverlion
10-18-2010, 14:01
Maybe it's because I have never had an UQ, but I have had no issues with my SS and really like it. I did try to get inside my 0* bag rather than using it as a TQ and had a little condensation. I used it as a TQ the next few times and never had an issue. I really like the SS. As far as getting the pad back into the stuff sack, it's all in how you roll it. You gotta roll tight and slow. Slow lets it compress more. Once I roll it up, I hold it w/ one hand and slide the sack on with the other. It's easier than stuffing my 0* sleeping bag. When I can get a good quilt at a good price, I'll buy one. Until then, I have my SS. Oh, and the SS overcover is only for DRY cold environments. Unless you really like condensation. LOL.