How to survive 32° with a 50° UQ

[Buffalo Skipper]

This weekend I will be out in my hammock. I have been following the extended forecast with the expectation of temps around 45°. This morning the forecast changed drastically, and temps will be right around 32°. I have a diy UQ made out of a cheap sleeping bag, and I expect I will be good to around 50°. For the extra 5°, I was not concerned, making up that should easily be done with a space blanket, but to extend that nearly 20° is something else entirely.

I am looking for any ideas of how to make my life comfortable down here. I have already ordered a 3 Season Incubator from Stormcrow, but as I did that on Friday, I have no expectation for it to be here by Friday. I have been looking for thin foam packing material to make a layer, but have had no luck.
I do have a 25° down bag I am using as a TQ, so I am find on the top. I just need something more for the bottom. And this is car camping, so weight is not so much of an issue for me.

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

[nox2825]

use a sleeping pad plus your UQ, should get you there.

[KerMegan]

even something like a pool float/mattress (partially inflated) would add loft while it is inside the UQ..just a thought! (though I freely admit the thermarest does a great job of distributing the air, while the pool float may compress too much at the pressure points...since there is no foam inside)KM

[RePete]

Simple blue wallypad will get you down to freezing by itself so if you have an UQ to boot you will be fine.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Respectfully, I am trying to commit myself to doing this without a foam pad, as it takes away from the comfort of the hammock. To provide some other ideas, I typically sleep in a minimal amount of clothing (wicking shorts and t-shirt) even in low temps. As such, I am not familiar with clothing options to tide me over in lower temps.

I also made some Reflectix coozies for my Nalgene, so I can try that as well. I do have one 7' long piece of Refectix, but it is only 18" wide, so even if I were to cut it up and insert darts, it would not be enough to line the inside of the UQ (but I could buy more).

Too bad I didn't order the Incubator a month ago. This would have been a great time to test it out!

[CrankyOldGuy]

I'd try a space blanket and poly-pro long underwear keeping a down or fleece jacket in reserve. Also, for me, a fleece cap is a must.

[Shug]

I would supplement with a pad ....... at least you will be warm.
I never found pads that bad .... of course straight UQ is the best.
Don't risk being cold .... no fun.
Shug

[animalcontrol]

Respectfully, I am trying to commit myself to doing this without a foam pad, as it takes away from the comfort of the hammock. To provide some other ideas, I typically sleep in a minimal amount of clothing (wicking shorts and t-shirt) even in low temps. As such, I am not familiar with clothing options to tide me over in lower temps.

I also made some Reflectix coozies for my Nalgene, so I can try that as well. I do have one 7' long piece of Refectix, but it is only 18" wide, so even if I were to cut it up and insert darts, it would not be enough to line the inside of the UQ (but I could buy more).

Too bad I didn't order the Incubator a month ago. This would have been a great time to test it out!

throwing out the pad idea...you could try to lay ontop of anything that wont compress. Fleece would be the first thing that comes to my mind...any synthetic material should provide a measure of insulation even after compression...

[bigbamaguy]

While we were at the Mid TN Hang this weekend we experienced temps in the upper 20's on friday night. My GF and I supplimented our DIY UQ rated at around 35 degrees with a small section of Wally World Blue CCF pad that allowed us to escape the Cold Butt Syndrome. I do not like the pads either but a section of pad that goes from one hipbone to the other across your backside is a wonderful way to get to below freezing. It was not uncomfortable in anyway and I will be trying a section of Reflectix soon to see it will conform more to my shape and still keep me as warm........

[sandpiper]

If weight isn't a issue I would take along a down jacket or vest (assuming you have a spare) and place it between your UQ and hammock and adjust your UQ as not to compress it.

[millergear]

A Garlington Insulator bag. Basically a large trash bag filled with a crinkled space blanket (or dry leaves) and tied to trap air. Insert between the hammock and the UQ.

Details at:http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/HammockInsulator/Insulator.htm

[KerMegan]

wearing a fleece jacket/vest and a pair of pants (even the lighter 'sweatshirt' fleece or gym pants) will add a layer of 'cozy' to your system. hey, it works to keep the pots warm... :)

[Buffalo Skipper]

millergear, thanks for the ideas on the Garlington Insulator . I may look into stitching up something like that real quick.

I also wanted to ask about the possibility of using a wool army type blanket (like an army blanket). Would this, (in the hammock) in conjuction with a reflective/vapor barrier do the trick?

There is an Army/Navy store around the corner from work and it is lunch time. I may go up there and price what they have. As I still need to pick up a space blanket, I may see if they have those as well.

Keep up the ideas. I still want to hear what you all suggest....

[neo]

i have been down to 9 degrees with a 5.00 army pad cut to 2/3rds length
this past weekend my yougest son went to 28 degrees with nothing under him,i am planning on getting him a kick *** quilt since he dont like pads,i have been in the 20's with a poncho liner under quilt filled with leaves.but what works for one person dont work for all.keep experimenting till you find out what works for you:cool:neo

[BillyBob58]

throwing out the pad idea...you could try to lay ontop of anything that wont compress. Fleece would be the first thing that comes to my mind...any synthetic material should provide a measure of insulation even after compression...

That is what I was thinking also- anything that won't compress or won't compress completely or as much as down, such as fleece. Sleeping inside a synthetic sleeping bag will get you at least a few more degrees warmth for your back, in my experience. But you might get more out of that space blanket than you are expecting. I feel like it adds more like 10 to 20* when I add one to my HH SuperShelter. YMMV. Also, you can try mightily to avoid the pad. However, it is nice to have one for emergency purposes when all else fails.


A Garlington Insulator bag. Basically a large trash bag filled with a crinkled space blanket (or dry leaves) and tied to trap air. Insert between the hammock and the UQ.

Details at:http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/HammockInsulator/Insulator.htm

I have used GIs with much success when adding them to the HHSS. Anybody's guess how it will work with your UQ, but it is cheap and easy to try out. Good luck!

[Buffalo Skipper]

keep experimenting till you find out what works for you:cool:neo

Failed experiments make me shivver...:scared:. I want to figure how to do it right the first time. ;)


That is what I was thinking also- anything that won't compress or won't compress completely or as much as down, such as fleece.... But you might get more out of that space blanket than you are expecting. I feel like it adds more like 10 to 20* when I add one to my HH SuperShelter. YMMV. Also, you can try mightily to avoid the pad. However, it is nice to have one for emergency purposes when all else fails.

I would not have expected that much out of a space blanket (finally picked mine up at the A/N store, but their selection of wool blankets was double what I would have been willing to pay.:scared:). Wool will not compress and is a good insulator. I assume that this would make a good layer inside the hammock. Still looking for feedback on this, yea or nay.

Here is what I am currently thinking (layered in this order):

-TQ (25° down bag)
ME (inside an REI fleece mummy liner)
-Wool blanket
-Hammock
-space Blanket
-UQ (converted cheap synthetic sleeping bag, darted)

I plan to have a hot water bottle available if needed, and I will probably wear wicking long underwear but this may not be necessary.

Thoughts?

[RePete]

Looks to me like you have a pretty good plan. Good luck.

[shrek]

Wool will not compress and is a good insulator. I assume that this would make a good layer inside the hammock. Still looking for feedback on this, yea or nay.

Here is what I am currently thinking (layered in this order):

-TQ (25° down bag)
ME (inside an REI fleece mummy liner)
-Wool blanket
-Hammock
-space Blanket
-UQ (converted cheap synthetic sleeping bag, darted)

I plan to have a hot water bottle available if needed, and I will probably wear wicking long underwear but this may not be necessary.

Thoughts?


I have used a wool blanket down to single digit temps. It is very warm, but quite heavy. If you are car camping, no problem, but if you are backpacking, you need to consider the weight. I actually carried 2 of them on a short backpacking trip. I was not happy with that much extra weight, but it did help keep me warm.

[DuctTape]

Instead of using the quilt to hold the trash bags for the GI. Use a poncho under the uq. As a weatheeshield and put the bags in those. Heck even just the poncho weather shield should give you an additional 10 degrees.

[MacEntyre]

A Molly Mac Gear IX UQ will extend your existing UQ sufficiently.

[NCPatrick]

A Molly Mac Gear IX UQ will extend your existing UQ sufficiently.
I think the OP was wanting something before the weekend, a 3 Season Incubator from Stormcrow is on the way, but will not arrive before then.

[MacEntyre]

Good! He's all set!

This past weekend, Thing1 and I were down in the Gorge when we discovered that we brought only one top blanket! I made do with two down coats and a space blanket. That could have been bad!

[WonderMonkey]

Try and place an old sleeping bag or a quilt between yourself and your present UQ. If you can get it to snug up a wee bit that will add some R value.

[LaVista]

the other weekend I was down in the Smokeys.

My sleep system was a big agnes pitchpine 40* Bag, and temps got down to around 25* the first night when we were up at altitude near Clingmans Dome. By morning I had put on my hat & baselayers and socks, but still had my fleece & windbreaker in reserve so I probably would have been good almost all the way to zero degrees. Heres what worked for me:

40* big agnes sleeping Bag
+15* Sea To summit Reactor Sleeping bag liner
Thermarest Z-lite pad cut to "mummy" shape to fit big agnes sleeping pad sleeve.

I take my hiking pants baselayers and spread them out around the head-end of my bag for a couple layers of insulation to keep my arms/shoulders warm where they rest against the hammock, and my windbreaker and midlayer around the foot end for the same purpose.

I have the basic clearview big-agnes blowup pad but I only use it when i'm sleeping on the ground, in conjunction with the cut up thermarest Z-pad for warmth (Z-pad next to my body), since it doesn't really add any significant insulation (less then R1 value) so its more for comfort from rocks then anything else.

Z-pad in a sleeping bag, with pad-sleeve is a GOOD solution for people who are on the fence about sleeping pads. No worries about slipping off of the pad, just make sure you buy the correct orientation of zippers, so you can zip everything up after you jump in.

[jloden]

-TQ (25° down bag)

Just a quick note in addition to some of the other good tips you've gotten. I'd recommend actually getting in the sleeping bag, instead of using it quilt style (not sure if that's what you meant?). I know there's a lot said about how down underneath your body is useless, but I haven't found that to be quite true.

I had one night where it was just warm enough that I didn't need a TQ (I slept in pants and a fleece jacket), maybe in the high 50-60s. I just laid on top of my JRB quilt in the hammock. It kept my bottom side warm until somewhere in the wee hours of the morning when I finally decided I needed something on top of me and had to swap it for a pad so I could use the quilt. Obviously, it's not going to do a ton for you, but it does do *something* to cut heat loss, even if just as a wind break. Similarly, I find it keeps me warmer when I tuck the quilt in well around my sides, holds more heat in and adds more layers under my shoulders and hips.

Anyway, don't expect a ton from it but it's worth adding to the other stuff you've mentioned.

[BrianWillan]

A Garlington Insulator bag. Basically a large trash bag filled with a crinkled space blanket (or dry leaves) and tied to trap air. Insert between the hammock and the UQ.

Details at:http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/HammockInsulator/Insulator.htm

This is a great idea and is one that is often overlooked for a viable insulation source. Another idea along the lines of AnimalControl is to use a wool blanket folded in half and to sleep on it inside the hammock.

What do you have for top insulation? You could get a sleeping bag liner to aid there. Just make sure you have appropriate clothing to sleep in and wear a hat/balaclava to keep the head warm.

Good luck and be sure to post a trip report when you get back.

Cheers

Brian

[Buffalo Skipper]

Thanks for all the ideas. I think I should be sufficiently warm this weekend. I am hoping to find a wool blanket to borrow and a foam pad as an absolue last resort, as well as plenty of warm clothes. And then, one can't forget the water bottle.

I will of course keep the tarp pitched close to trap some warmth as well. Nice thing about the heavy p/u coating on the Noah's tarp is that it can more easily trap warmth.

[jbo_c]

My son and I used HotHands handwarmers this weekend to extend our comfort level. I was surprised at how well it worked out. One under a shirt and one in the footbox made life much better. I can't really tell you how many degrees it added, but I can comfortably(haha) say that for the meager weight penalty, it was good insurance. A nice plus is that they lasted long enough to keep in a pocket while getting ready for the trail in the morning too.

Jbo

[Doctari]

I have gotten to 17 with a "30 degree" sleeping bag. & Honestly, when it was New 20 years before, 30 was being VERY generous. How I got through 2 nights at those temps: 1) I used the sleeping bag as a quilt, this allowed it to be folded (Wrinkled) for more loft. 2) I had ample insulation under me; full length CCF pad, reflective truckers windscreen, fleece "Under quilt". & a set of chemical toe warmers each night. Plus, hung over my ridgeline a small "Space blanket" that may or may not have helped. All in all I was warm both nights, even though I had set up wrong the first night: I set up along the E W direction of the wind, so had wind blowing on me all night. Hey, I was new at winter camping & hammock camping :D Didn't know better. The 2nd night I set up across the wind & was warmer. I even had an extra layer of insulation in the form of a 1/4 inch layer of ice on my tarp the 2nd night.

Night 1 notice how the other tarp is oriented.
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=433&c=18

I can't find the pic from the 2nd night, looks like my camp tarp has a plastic tarp over it.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Orientation and location are so often overlooked. Camping with scouts sometimes limits the available choices of good hanging sites. This weekend I will be on the edge of a thickly wooded site. The underbrush is yaupon holly which is severely overgown. I feel I may be lucky to find a single hanging option where I know (in advance) the area we will be in.

I imagine we will have a north wind, but will probably be able to only set up N-S, so I may have to pitch in a tent configuration to break the wind. I would prefer to be perpendicular to the wind, so we will see where I will have to be.

[NCPatrick]

Orientation and location are so often overlooked. Camping with scouts sometimes limits the available choices of good hanging sites. This weekend I will be on the edge of a thickly wooded site. The underbrush is yaupon holly which is severely overgown. I feel I may be lucky to find a single hanging option where I know (in advance) the area we will be in.


Don't be afraid to hike on into the woods a bit deeper to look for a spot. You may find the perfect one just a little farther in from the edges. It definitely pays to look around thoroughly before you settle for a not-so-great spot -- keep your "outside the box" thinking cap on, and the creative juices flowing... you're bound to find someplace that suits you. :) Good luck!

[Doctari]

Orientation and location are so often overlooked. Camping with scouts sometimes limits the available choices of good hanging sites. This weekend I will be on the edge of a thickly wooded site. The underbrush is yaupon holly which is severely overgown. I feel I may be lucky to find a single hanging option where I know (in advance) the area we will be in.

I imagine we will have a north wind, but will probably be able to only set up N-S, so I may have to pitch in a tent configuration to break the wind. I would prefer to be perpendicular to the wind, so we will see where I will have to be.


At the Mt Rogers hangs, with similar thermometers, we often record as much as a 10 degree difference separated by as little as 50'. So just like in real-estate adopt the mantra: Location, Location, Location.
I forgot to add in my previous post, if you can add doors to your tarp, that can add 5 or more degrees to your comfort. Get or make a Hammock sock for another 10 - 20 degrees with minimal added weight / space. Be sure to have enough ventilation in all you do; or you will get wet from condensation & therefore you will get colder.

[Wags]

without reading any of this thread other than the title, the easy answer is a cheap blue walmart ccf pad...

[JohnSawyer]

Also, hang low enough to get your tarp edge on the ground to break the wind...

I've used a 2x2 square of reflectix under my butt in my UQ to extend it a bit, regularly use one under my legs to keep my legs warm...

x2 on the hand warmers, WW has a pair of them for less than $3...

[Buffalo Skipper]

Also, hang low enough to get your tarp edge on the ground to break the wind...

I've used a 2x2 square of reflectix under my butt in my UQ to extend it a bit, regularly use one under my legs to keep my legs warm...

x2 on the hand warmers, WW has a pair of them for less than $3...

I have a Noah 12. It is on the heavy side but I can pitch it like a tent, right down to the ground. It works well for me, which is good as it will be windy tonight (less tomorrow). I have some one piece of reflectix left from my boat insulation project. It is 18"x 7'. I could bring it along if I really need something more, but I think I have got it covered.

To review what I will have:

—50° underquilt* with a space blanket sandwiched between it and the hammock.
—medium weight wool blanket (in the hammock)
—REI fleece mummy liner
—Kelty Lightyear down mummy bag 25° as TQ

I will have polyprop long underwear and a cap, as well as a water bottle set up before I go to bed (to warm the bedding; I can keep it if I feel the need). Current forecast has us right around 34° tonight and tomorrow; windy tonight and less tomorrow night.

With this, I hope to sleep snug as a bug tonight and tomorrow.
Still, can't wait to get the 3S Incubator in a few weeks....

[L.D. Cakes]

My son and I used HotHands handwarmers this weekend to extend our comfort level. I was surprised at how well it worked out. One under a shirt and one in the footbox made life much better. I can't really tell you how many degrees it added, but I can comfortably(haha) say that for the meager weight penalty, it was good insurance. A nice plus is that they lasted long enough to keep in a pocket while getting ready for the trail in the morning too.

Jbo
I'm a very cold sleeper. I used Hot Hands in my hammock this past weekend too at the Linville Gorge Hang. The first night it went down to 30* Under me I had only a thermarest in a SPE with reflectix in the wings and an extra 2x2 piece of reflectix under my butt. On top of me I used a 20* down bag unzipped. The hot hands went in my down booties and a larger one in my shirt. I also wore a fleece beanie and fleece gloves. I was very comfortable!

[Buffalo Skipper]

Well, I survived it! Temps got to about 34° both nights. I used exactly the setup I described, and had no problem at all staying warm. But I did do other things differently as well.

For starters, I flipped over my Skeeter Beeter Pro, with the bugnet down and used the hammock that way, as described by the manufacturer when the bugnet is not needed. This caused the hammock to lay a little different. But because I had the wool blanket under my, it was awkward to get into a comfortable position. All in all it took me about 10 minutes to get comfortable when I got in the hammock (and when I got back in in the middle of the night). But I was able to get the blanket positioned and it did its job just quite well.

Very significant was the use of the space blanket, which went inbetween my diy quilt and the hammock. At one point the second night, I felt cold on my right shoulder. I checked the UQ and the wool blanket which were fine. In spite of being 2am I had the sense to reach into the UQ to check out the space blanket, which had shifted. I pulled it up and within under a minute, my shoulder was warm.

Most telling of all, however, was the water bottle. OH MY! Having that was like sleeping under an electric blanket! What a difference. I will definately be using that again. Wow. I kept in on the inside of my leg for a while but later in the night, placed it directly on my stomach and laid my wrists across it. I have never camped so warm in those temperature conditions ever. I just love that water bottle! :boggle:

My only complaint was that I slid down (probably with the aid of the wool on the ripstop) and my feet ended up being elevated above my head. Consequently, with the reduced blood flow to my feet, they were quite cool (though not cold). I imagine that once I ditch the blanket with the new 3S Incubator, that may go away.

But overall it was an amazingly warm experiece. Did I mention that the hot water bottle is the bomb? :D

[NCPatrick]

Glad you stayed warm! Thanks for reporting back with all the good info.

[RootCause]

But overall it was an amazingly warm experiece. Did I mention that the hot water bottle is the bomb? :D

Congrats, Buffalo Skipper!

Good timing on this thread! I've got a Scout camping weekend coming up, and still no true underquilt. I had the light bulb go off this morning: "hot water bottle!" Then I caught this thread, making the idea doubly attractive. Now I'm planning to stay in the trees and not go to ground, in temps down to the upper 20's.

[L.D. Cakes]

Curious....What did you use for your hot water bottle?

[RePete]

Im a little late on this one but I just read the thread for the Mt. Rogers Hang (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24043) and the start of the thread by Doctari has tons of useful information and is entertaining. I think anyone who is inexperienced with cold weather hanging should read this thread. Would love to go to Mt. Rogers in Jan but no way that is going to happen.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Congrats, Buffalo Skipper!

Good timing on this thread! I've got a Scout camping weekend coming up, and still no true underquilt. I had the light bulb go off this morning: "hot water bottle!" Then I caught this thread, making the idea doubly attractive. Now I'm planning to stay in the trees and not go to ground, in temps down to the upper 20's.

Use a wool blanket--you should have some heavy ones up there with a space blanket underneath and a water bottle and as long as you have a good top quilt, you should be fine, based on my experience this weekend.



Curious....What did you use for your hot water bottle?

I used a name brand Nalgene 1L bottle. Last week, I made a coozy made of reflectix (sides and bottom) sealed with aluminum (vinyl siding) tape. I had both the reflectix and tape lying around as leftovers from previous projects.

My son also had made a coozy and the second night decided to use it (he had intentionally skipped it the first night). He put it in his bag (he is still a ground dweller) 10 minutes before he went to bed. The next day, I asked how it went. He said he forgot to put the bottle by his leg. I asked where he set it and he replied down by his feet. I asked if his feet stayed warm and he replied "Oh yea!, and so did the rest of me." He is sold on the hot water bottle, too. ;)

[Miguel]

Thanks for all the ideas. I think I should be sufficiently warm this weekend. I am hoping to find a wool blanket to borrow and a foam pad as an absolue last resort, as well as plenty of warm clothes. And then, one can't forget the water bottle.

I will of course keep the tarp pitched close to trap some warmth as well. Nice thing about the heavy p/u coating on the Noah's tarp is that it can more easily trap warmth.

I find a partially inflated Thermarest to be much more comfortable than a Wally World type pad. The key is to have it "partially" inflated.

Miguel

[Take-a-knee]

I find a partially inflated Thermarest to be much more comfortable than a Wally World type pad. The key is to have it "partially" inflated.

Miguel

This isn't necessary if you put it in an SPE, in fact, you can blow it up for more insulation and a flatter lay. Thermarests and SPE's go together like cornbread and butterbeans.