Testimonial: Shamu w/ end channels

[MacEntyre]

Received this kind note today with permission to post it. Herb sent me his Shamu IX UQ for the end channel mod, and since I had a brand new one, I replaced it instead.




I used the brand new Shamu you sent to me (I thought it looked slightly different) at the Colorado hang.

The Shamu performed admirably once I got the "hang" of suspending it. I found that pulling it really tight and closing up the ends with the end channel cords really made a difference in warmth. I noticed easily a 10*F difference warmer from the previous times I used it. With new one, I tried it in the backyard at high 30sF and was comfortable. With the insert (for 3 IX layers), I was comfortable in the low-30's and probably could have gone lower. All of this without a topquilt or tarp!

In Colorado, I hung the Shamu under the Blackbird first, with an extra IX insert, and then hung my Phoenix Winter UQ under it. I was very warm (finally understand the meaning of "toasty") down to 15*F -- the lowest temps we got that weekend. I know this combination can get me down to the single digits, and I may try the combo Weds. night in the backyard when we are scheduled to go below 0*F.

I can't thank you enough for sticking with the various mods and coming up with one that really, for me anyway, makes the Shamu an ideal 3-season UQ-- and all for only 10-12 ozs! Thanks again!



Note: Remember that IX UQs really ought to go directly under the hammock, as Herb did at the Colorado Hang, when used in conjunction with a down UQ. That way, you will avoid getting condensation in the down. You can use IX outside everything, but be sure to include a vapor barrier right under the hammock. For instance, when I use an IX Hammock Sock, I make sure my Baby Orca is right under the hammock, and if I use a down UQ, it goes between the sock and the Orca.

[Joey]

That's a great testimony! Really peaks my interest more towards the IX UQs.

[Red Wing]

I've never seen a pic of one packed up MacEntyre, could you post one? I've been getting really interested in your UQ's since learning about vapor barriers. Am going to get a Winter Crows Nest but would love to augment the warm for extreme cold with one of your UQ's, but I don't know how bulky it is. Pic?

[canoebie]

I have a full length UQ of IX that is a DIY. Draws up nice and tight around my Claytor making a good seal. Two layers of IX between two layers of 1.1 oz. ripstop that is breathable. Was just given a gift of a 3 season Phoenix and put the Phoenix over the IX and it was a great combination. I used my 2 layer IX TQ as a sock over top. I had a campmor down bag rated to 0 as a TQ. I was toasty warm. I did not need an additional pad for my feet. I went down to 10 with this. With a sheet of warm window between the layers of my Claytor, I took it down to -6.

I think IX is great as a first layer because of its ability to block moisture and retain heat. I also think it works great as a sock or for additional weather protection.

I agree with MacEntyre that it works better inside down. That Phoenix with the IX just radiated warmth back to me. I was truly toasty.

I also had good base layers on and foam boot inserts on my feet. I love being comfortable outside when it is cold.

[Red Wing]

I love being comfortable outside when it is cold.

That's what I'm screamin'. Half thepoint of venturing outdoors in conquering the elements and the only way you know you conquered them is if you're comfortable :)

[MacEntyre]

I've never seen a pic of one packed up ... I don't know how bulky it is. Pic?
This thread (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15701) has a comparison of IX and down, pack in stuff sacks.

The Molly Mac Gear IX UQs pack to about a liter, maybe a little more.

[sandpiper]

Anyone have a close-up photo of the end channel mod?

[MacEntyre]

Anyone have a close-up photo of the end channel mod?
In this post (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showpost.php?p=369573&postcount=15), I uploaded two pictures of the very Shamu that I sent to Herb!

[sandpiper]

Thanks MacEntyre, I picked up a FL MMG IX UQ recently and I am planning to add a liner to outside and thought I would incorporate the end channels at the same time. I just wasn't sure if they were unique in any way. I also remember reading about draft tubes as well...but it looks like they are standard channels for shock cord. Thanks again.

[MacEntyre]

...planning to add a liner to outside and thought I would incorporate the end channels at the same time.
Good idea! :thumbup:

When you cut the nylon for the outside cover, make sure it is about 1" wider than the IX UQ, after you dart and hem it. That way, it will be differentially cut, and will add an air gap outside the IX.

[Red Wing]

This thread (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15701) has a comparison of IX and down, pack in stuff sacks.

The Molly Mac Gear IX UQs pack to about a liter, maybe a little more.

Gracias senor:cool:

[sandpiper]

Good idea! :thumbup:

When you cut the nylon for the outside cover, make sure it is about 1" wider than the IX UQ, after you dart and hem it. That way, it will be differentially cut, and will add an air gap outside the IX.

Will do. :)

[MacEntyre]

Herb had another comment that was interesting:

Honestly, until something better comes along, I think your IX design offers the best cost/weight/warmth ratio out there--including down.
I am not willing to use nothing but IX in really cold weather, although I have done... to 8*F with good results. IX complements down very well, though, without a weight, bulk or cost penalty.

[BillyBob58]

Received this kind note today with permission to post it. Herb sent me his Shamu IX UQ for the end channel mod, and since I had a brand new one, I replaced it instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Edbeteze
............................
I used the brand new Shamu you sent to me (I thought it looked slightly different) at the Colorado hang.

The Shamu performed admirably once I got the "hang" of suspending it. I found that pulling it really tight and closing up the ends with the end channel cords really made a difference in warmth. I noticed easily a 10*F difference warmer from the previous times I used it. With new one, I tried it in the backyard at high 30sF and was comfortable. With the insert (for 3 IX layers), I was comfortable in the low-30's and probably could have gone lower. All of this without a topquilt or tarp!..................................







Note: Remember that IX UQs really ought to go directly under the hammock, as Herb did at the Colorado Hang, when used in conjunction with a down UQ. That way, you will avoid getting condensation in the down. You can use IX outside everything, but be sure to include a vapor barrier right under the hammock. For instance, when I use an IX Hammock Sock, I make sure my Baby Orca is right under the hammock, and if I use a down UQ, it goes between the sock and the Orca.


I have a full length UQ of IX that is a DIY. Draws up nice and tight around my Claytor making a good seal. Two layers of IX between two layers of 1.1 oz. ripstop that is breathable. Was just given a gift of a 3 season Phoenix and put the Phoenix over the IX and it was a great combination. I used my 2 layer IX TQ as a sock over top. I had a campmor down bag rated to 0 as a TQ. I was toasty warm. I did not need an additional pad for my feet. I went down to 10 with this. With a sheet of warm window between the layers of my Claytor, I took it down to -6.

I think IX is great as a first layer because of its ability to block moisture and retain heat. I also think it works great as a sock or for additional weather protection.

I agree with MacEntyre that it works better inside down. That Phoenix with the IX just radiated warmth back to me. I was truly toasty.

I also had good base layers on and foam boot inserts on my feet. I love being comfortable outside when it is cold.

Great thread. I have been planning on getting one of the newest designs of IX, or maybe even some DIY. In the meantime I have one of MMG's very 1st designs, except it has added "Insul tubes". Edbeteze, when you say 3 layers, do you mean 3 full length layers? Or is that 2 full length plus Insultubes/torsoheater?

Re: IX between hammock and down: I also recently had a thread where I used 2 layer plus Insultube (~8 oz) IX between hammock and PeaPod with no TQ in the 30s, which I jokingly called "Too Dang Hot". IOW, it really worked well. But though I had the IX pulled tight, I had a small gap between the PeaPod bottom layer and the IX. You guys using a dif cut Phoenix, are you pulling that UQ tight against the IX or trying to leave it kind of loose?

[MacEntyre]

I don't know if Herb is following this thread, so with all due respect, I will continue to speak on his behalf.


...I have one of MMG's very 1st designs, except it has added "Insul tubes". Edbeteze, when yoy say 3 layers, do you mean 3 full length layers? Or is that 2 full length plus Insultubes/torsoheater?
All Molly Mac Gear IX UQs have the InsulTubes 2'x3' sewn-in Torso Heater. When Herb said 3 layers, he was referring to the full length layers. He had 3 layers, plus his Torso Heater layer.


...I had a small gap between the PeaPod bottom layer and the IX.
Gaps matter very little when the IX is inside the PeaPod. They go away when you optimize the fit of the PeaPod.


You guys using a dif cut Phoenix, are you pulling that UQ tight against the IX or trying to leave it kind of loose?
Herb said that he rigged it tight.

[BillyBob58]

I don't know if Herb is following this thread, so with all due respect, I will continue to speak on his behalf.


All Molly Mac Gear IX UQs have the InsulTubes 2'x3' sewn-in Torso Heater. When Herb said 3 layers, he was referring to the full length layers. He had 3 layers, plus his Torso Heater layer.


Gaps matter very little when the IX is inside the PeaPod. They go away when you optimize the fit of the PeaPod.


Herb said that he rigged it tight.

Thank you MacEntyre! Yes, I am used to optimizing the fit of the pod to minimize the gap, that is my usual approach. But I left a small gap on purpose so the pod would not be in contact with the IX. I did that based on all the previous discussion about how IX needs a small gap to optimize it's warmth.

But it appears, based on Herb rigging it tight, and canoebie presumably doing the same thing, that a fabric touching- even in tight contact with-
the outer layer of IX is not a problem.

I guess if I had optimized my pod for ~ zero bottom gap on that night, I would have started sweating. :scared: As I was already so warm I was having to do some venting. Of course, I still don't know for absolute sure that night's results were all do to the addition of the 2 layers/+torso IX. But I sure don't know what else would account for me being so much warmer ( ON TOP! ) than with the same basic set up at similar temps previously. (actually, with probably a bit less insulation on top than previously)

If it was due to the IX under the hammock, then it appears retaining enough warmth below- especially in a "closed" or otherwise draft proof set up, adds a whole bunch to top warmth. Or at least it does in a PeaPod. Apparently.

[KefWalker]

You have channeled me perfectly Mac...:D To expand a bit on both UQs--I found that rigging them tight, with no one in the hammock so they are truly snug against the hammock, seems to be, for me anyway, the best way to maximize their use. The Colorado hang was the first time I had a chance to really fuss and fidget with hammock suspension, tarp rigging and UQ insulation, besides playing around in the backyard, and I learned a lot.

Re: the UQs, I knew that the Shamu acts as a semi-permeable vapor barrier based on info from MacEntyre so I wanted that right up against the hammock bottom. When I placed an order for the Phoenix, Thorwren also suggested that I place the Shamu against the hammock first and then hang the Phoenix.

Previously, I had mistakenly hung the Shamu a bit loose because I thought I needed an air gap. Really, what I needed to do was to shorten the end shockcords significantly to push the Shamu up against the hammock as much as reasonably possible. I just put a knot halfway down the cord that's attached to the end loops and then looped the shockcord around the hammock's end knobs which really brought the Shamu up tight.

Because the Shamu was up tightly against the hammock, the ends gapped open and--here's where the new end channels came into play--I just closed up the ends with the end channel cords and had a closed UQ all the way around. I put the Phoenix Winter UQ on the outside of the Shamu and shortened the end loops the same way (making a knot halfway down the loop) and looped them over the hammock's end knobs as well to pull that UQ up tightly against the Shamu.

In the end, I had two UQs in Colorado: the full length Shamu (with an extra full-length inside IX layer), and the 3/4 Phoenix Winter UQ, for bottom insulation and I was truly toasty for the first time hanging in 15*F.

The Shamu is made up of 2 full-length layers of Insultex (IX) with another 2' x 3' piece of IX sandwiched in between in the torso area, and an outer layer of nylon on the bottom side, so 2 and 1/2 layers? The well-designed Shamu and Phoenix UQs are differentially cut so I could really pull them up tight without fear of damaging them in any way.

I know this may be controversial, and it is only my humble opinion, but given my experience with IX now, in the equation of weight vs. warmth vs. cost, IX has an advantage over down. However, the area where IX gives way to down is compressibility--an important factor, especially in winter camping, where pack space is an issue. For a given warmth rating, I've found down compresses about to about half of the volume of the equivalent IX.

[MacEntyre]

I've found down compresses about to about half of the volume of the equivalent IX.
You treat your IX to well! It can be compressed more than you think! :lol:

You mentioned the diff cut... that's what allows you to rig it tight, and not lose the IX gap which is built in.

[KefWalker]

Yes--it's the differential cut that I was ignoring at first by not tightening it up, thus defeating the design. I'll have to get a compression sack and see just far I can compress the Shamu and insert.

[MacEntyre]

Yes--it's the differential cut that I was ignoring at first by not tightening it up, thus defeating the design.
That bears repeating with emphasis. I think a lot of people thought the 'IX gap' was up to the user. I caught some flack for repeatedly saying, "Tighten it up!"
The end channels now allow you to tighten in both length and width.

[KefWalker]

As the designer of the Shamu, I would think that you have a pretty good idea of how it works best...:lol:. I'll be the first to admit that my initial perception of "tighten it up" was way off. Now, I tighten it up as much as possible (without ripping it of course...:)), and do not worry about any gap between it and the hammock--the diff cut takes care of that.

[MacEntyre]

Now, I tighten it up as much as possible (without ripping it of course...:))
That may or may not be necessary for other folks. One must test it and find out!

I suspect that part of the problem is that the suspension is too long. I made it the same length as the HH SS OCF pad suspension. I usually put a knot in the head end of a Baby Orca, to take about 8" of length out of it.

[SteelerNation]

I've never seen a pic of one packed up MacEntyre, could you post one? I've been getting really interested in your UQ's since learning about vapor barriers. Am going to get a Winter Crows Nest but would love to augment the warm for extreme cold with one of your UQ's, but I don't know how bulky it is. Pic?

Need to get my hammock back out to get a better picture, but I made a "python" skin for mine (instead of separate snake skins, one big tube that contains the whole hammock). I just leave the Shamu attached to my hammock and pack the whole thing up.

Below is a picture of my hammock (WBBB) with the Shamu attached, with suspension straps all wrapped up in my python skin inside the outside pocket of my Mariposa Plus. Really pleased with the size.

SN

[jefftrex]

after speaking to MacEntyre i added the end channels to my Shamhu. I have not tried it yet.

not the best sewing job but it does the trick. 19102

I removed the shock cords that came with the UQ and used a set of JRB suspension that i had bought to hang my Hudson river if i need to.

at first i hung the shamu uder the my hennessy with nothing but the shamhu it felt warmth right away. is that the right way to hang a IX UQ right against the hammock. the JRB suspension held the shamu uder the hammock tighter and was going to add some gross grain loops to the side for the hennessy side tieouts.

[MacEntyre]

...is that the right way to hang a IX UQ right against the hammock?
Yes! You may also want to try it between the hammock and another UQ, when it's real cold out.