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aceatc
01-06-2008, 01:12
The last time I went winter camping I fell on my butt twice from the ring buckles loosening up. I'm curious as to what knots work the best to stop the webbing from sliding. Usually I just tie like three half hitches and that seems to work... most of the time.

red devil
01-06-2008, 03:11
I think a simple slip knot works best. Bring the webbing around itself, make a blight and bring it back through the opening. I've been using it with no slipping and it sounds like it's what the rest of us are tying. I think three half hitches are overkill and there is something else wrong if you are still having failures.

slowhike
01-06-2008, 08:17
here's what i use. no problems.
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/2/5/PC280107.JPG

kayak karl
01-06-2008, 18:16
here's what i use. no problems.
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/2/5/PC280107.JPG

good idea. i get a slow slip in cold weather. a knot will help.

Cannibal
01-07-2008, 08:28
Slipknot here; I like the band too! Doesn't add more than a few seconds to set-up and easy to remember. If your butt hits the ground...you forgot. :D

dallas
01-09-2008, 18:13
Slowhike,
That's the knot that my son and I both use and it has never allowed the straps to slip. Very easy to tie and untie and works every time.
John

slowhike
01-09-2008, 19:21
Slowhike,
That's the knot that my son and I both use and it has never allowed the straps to slip. Very easy to tie and untie and works every time.
John

yeah, as long as i remember to do it, there's never a problem.

Rat
01-09-2008, 22:17
If you hafta tie a knot anyway why not just use a loop of webbing or cord and save the weight of the cinch rings? A knot is a knot wether it is sround a cinch ring or cord loop right?

slowhike
01-09-2008, 23:13
If you hafta tie a knot anyway why not just use a loop of webbing or cord and save the weight of the cinch rings? A knot is a knot wether it is sround a cinch ring or cord loop right?

i don't know. i was just thinking that because the ring buckles do most of the holding, there's less bunching of the webbing & the load is spread out over a little larger area.
therefore easier on the webbing.

also, if that same simple knot were tied, say onto a webbing or cord loop, would it hold w/o slipping?
and i would think if it did, it would be locked down much tighter, putting more stress on the knot area, as opposed to the knot just serving as a stopper knot after most of the holding work is done by the buckles.

but i'm open to hearing other ideas.

Rat
01-10-2008, 02:13
Here is why I ask:
I was thinking about trying the cinch buckle attachment, just because so many people use it and like it. Right now I use, mostly, the four wrap knot; or any of several other knots, sometimes the figure eight lash, sometimes a simple slip knot like you have shown here. It depends on the situation as to what I use.

So I was going to try the cinch buckle to see how well it works, but if you need to tie a knot in it as well I will just stay with what I have.

The weakness in a knot comes from the turns it makes causing unequal loading of the fibers. Since a smaller amount of fibers carry the load the breaking strength is reduced. By using buckles you still have turns, just like a knot, so I think it would be the same as using a knot; at least that is what I am looking at anyway. So the advantage to using the buckles is ease of set up and, I thought, no knots to tie (not that I mind tieing knots mind you).

So if it takes you one minute to set up and me three minutes to set up, I am cool with that, because my system is less complicated (fewer parts = fewer failure points) and lighter.

Alas, it is too late, I have already ordered the rings. So I guess I will hafta play with it anyway when they arrive.

The only advantage I can see with the cinch buckles is a quicker set up. Is that right?

I just hate over-complicating things:rolleyes:

Rat
01-10-2008, 02:47
Since I don't have my rings yet I am just guessing here.

I think you have a valid point on the "bunching" of the webbing. More of the fibers bear the load if it is nice and flat, instead of bunched up like a knot. Okay, that makes sense to me now I think.

But it slips and you still gotta use a knot, even though the knot doesn't hold the lions share of the load. I guess if it slipped enough it would, then your back to relying on the knot, mostly anyway.

I have never seen a knot breaking strength comparison chart for webbing, just rope. And IIRC the slip knot wasn't one of the knots tested, but I will need to find the link to know for sure, I think it was eight knots.

However, using 1000 lb breaking strength webbing, with, a bowline in it (70% breaking strength I think) we still have around 700 lb SWL, of course this is for rope not webbing, but like I said, I lack the data.

So all things considered, to me, a knot is simpler and lighter, but not as quick. Even tho the braking strength "may" be lower than the buckle system, it is still within my weight limits; I haven't had a failure yet and I have been using knots all along.

Geez, how hard can it be to suspend a friggin' hammock?:eek: I should've had those rings shipped priority instead of standard...

Rat
01-10-2008, 02:55
Knot breaking strength comparison chart (http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/50/knotrope.html)

Like I said, no webbing, but good info.

slowhike
01-10-2008, 06:59
just for clarification, the ring buckles & the cinch buckle are two different things.

the cinch buckle http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/4/DSC_3466.JPG
doesn't seem to need a back up knot to prevent slipping. my only concern w/ the cinch buckle was that it put all the force involved in one sharp bend, over a very small surface.
as long as the webbing is strong enough, that probably isn't much of a concern though.

i felt that the ring buckles carried the load over a some what larger, more round surface. but there is also (sometimes) not enough resistance to prevent slipping, giving need for the slip knot, which is really serving more as a "stop knot".

i think both of the buckles just make it easier & quicker (less hassle) to readjust the hammock, as in centering between two trees, adjusting sag & height, etc.

also, a big plus for me is having the buckles just a few inches from each end of the hammock, therefore if it's raining i can make adjustments to the hammock from under the tarp, whether it's in the initial set up, or later on i see a need to make an adjustment (after i've taken my wet rain gear off<g>).

to me it's not that i want to impress someone (or have a race<g>) w/ my set up time (although it's nice when ground dwellers see how easy it was to get things just right<g>), but i just enjoy the convenience of the quick set up & adjustments. that way i can move on to something else, like getting water, starting supper, or just relaxing in my hammock<g>.

i'm sure open to simpler methods that involve less complication of extra parts, but w/ this system if for some reason a buckle fails, i still have the webbing & i can go back to the four warp method.

Patrick
01-11-2008, 11:13
I've been playing with both rings and cinch buckles the last week or so, although I've only been able to do backyard testing so far.

I haven't had rings slip yet. What I do is put a bight of webbing through on the last step. Gives the rings a bit more to bite on and makes take-down and adjustment even easier. It also means you don't have to feed the whole length of webbing through if your trees are close and small. What I don't like about the rings is that you have to be aware of how you're tightening to be sure the webbing stays in line.

I just got my cinch buckles last night and put them on my hammock. They're cool. You can still feed a bight through on the last step for easier take-down, but it doesn't seem at all necessary for security.

The difference in a pair of cinch buckles and four rings (two on each end) is 10g on my digital kitchen scale.

I'm still not totally convinced of full webbing instead of huggers/line because of the weight and bulk, but I do like the security and durability.

Bug-Bait
01-11-2008, 11:22
I pull the webbing to where I want them through the ring buckles and just tie a slip knot...almost without thinking...every time. It is so simple and easy to do. I've never slipped...ever.

Cannibal
01-11-2008, 11:27
The only time I forget the slip knot is when I'm lecturing someone about how important they are to tie. You can ask HF member furtigan about that one! :o :D

Rat
01-13-2008, 14:25
Okay, I got my rings. The3y came in on Fri. but I have been out fishing all weekend. So I am going to try them out.

aceatc
01-14-2008, 23:15
Okay, so I will try a slip knot next time I hang the hammock.

Other than that I notice my HH Exped. always loosens very... very easy with the ring buckle system. Example: I will hang the hammock 5 feet up! after tightening with the ring buckles and then once I sit down I sink to a foot from the ground. I know I will always sink down a certain ways, but the last time this happened I readjusted the ring buckles like 7 times and tried a whole bunch of knots and I still ended up a foot from the ground.

If the slip will stop this then problem solved, but I swear I made a knot where it was impossible to slip. Another hammock camper just says my HH naturally sags down a lot, I don't know about that. My webbing is also polypro and I was given it from a friend since I didn't have any webbing at all. I think it is only rated to 800 pounds... 800 or 1500, but I think it's 800.

It works for now so yeah. Slipknot please work, please oh please.

FanaticFringer
01-14-2008, 23:33
Okay, so I will try a slip knot next time I hang the hammock.

Other than that I notice my HH Exped. always loosens very... very easy with the ring buckle system. Example: I will hang the hammock 5 feet up! after tightening with the ring buckles and then once I sit down I sink to a foot from the ground. I know I will always sink down a certain ways, but the last time this happened I readjusted the ring buckles like 7 times and tried a whole bunch of knots and I still ended up a foot from the ground.

If the slip will stop this then problem solved, but I swear I made a knot where it was impossible to slip. Another hammock camper just says my HH naturally sags down a lot, I don't know about that. My webbing is also polypro and I was given it from a friend since I didn't have any webbing at all. I think it is only rated to 800 pounds... 800 or 1500, but I think it's 800.

It works for now so yeah. Slipknot please work, please oh please.

How far apart are the trees your hanging from? I always had a fair amount of
sagging when I used a Hennessy. I prefer the cinch buckles but it was probably not the rings causing it if you had a good knot on them.

Rat
01-14-2008, 23:53
So far I like the ring buckles. It is faster to hang. I double (use a bight) the webbing where it goes through the rings and have no problem with it slipping yet. I may hafta ditch the four wrap knot, the next hike will tell.

slowhike
01-15-2008, 06:32
So far I like the ring buckles. It is faster to hang. I double (use a bight) the webbing where it goes through the rings and have no problem with it slipping yet. I may hafta ditch the four wrap knot, the next hike will tell.

let us know what you think.
i know it's a little extra stuff but it's a pretty nice convenience to me.
especially if it's raining, to be able to adjust the hammock from under the tarp is great.