View Full Version : Knots for ring buckle system?
The last time I went winter camping I fell on my butt twice from the ring buckles loosening up. I'm curious as to what knots work the best to stop the webbing from sliding. Usually I just tie like three half hitches and that seems to work... most of the time.
red devil
01-06-2008, 03:11
I think a simple slip knot works best. Bring the webbing around itself, make a blight and bring it back through the opening. I've been using it with no slipping and it sounds like it's what the rest of us are tying. I think three half hitches are overkill and there is something else wrong if you are still having failures.
slowhike
01-06-2008, 08:17
here's what i use. no problems.
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/2/5/PC280107.JPG
kayak karl
01-06-2008, 18:16
here's what i use. no problems.
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/2/5/PC280107.JPG
good idea. i get a slow slip in cold weather. a knot will help.
Cannibal
01-07-2008, 08:28
Slipknot here; I like the band too! Doesn't add more than a few seconds to set-up and easy to remember. If your butt hits the ground...you forgot. :D
Slowhike,
That's the knot that my son and I both use and it has never allowed the straps to slip. Very easy to tie and untie and works every time.
John
slowhike
01-09-2008, 19:21
Slowhike,
That's the knot that my son and I both use and it has never allowed the straps to slip. Very easy to tie and untie and works every time.
John
yeah, as long as i remember to do it, there's never a problem.
If you hafta tie a knot anyway why not just use a loop of webbing or cord and save the weight of the cinch rings? A knot is a knot wether it is sround a cinch ring or cord loop right?
slowhike
01-09-2008, 23:13
If you hafta tie a knot anyway why not just use a loop of webbing or cord and save the weight of the cinch rings? A knot is a knot wether it is sround a cinch ring or cord loop right?
i don't know. i was just thinking that because the ring buckles do most of the holding, there's less bunching of the webbing & the load is spread out over a little larger area.
therefore easier on the webbing.
also, if that same simple knot were tied, say onto a webbing or cord loop, would it hold w/o slipping?
and i would think if it did, it would be locked down much tighter, putting more stress on the knot area, as opposed to the knot just serving as a stopper knot after most of the holding work is done by the buckles.
but i'm open to hearing other ideas.
Here is why I ask:
I was thinking about trying the cinch buckle attachment, just because so many people use it and like it. Right now I use, mostly, the four wrap knot; or any of several other knots, sometimes the figure eight lash, sometimes a simple slip knot like you have shown here. It depends on the situation as to what I use.
So I was going to try the cinch buckle to see how well it works, but if you need to tie a knot in it as well I will just stay with what I have.
The weakness in a knot comes from the turns it makes causing unequal loading of the fibers. Since a smaller amount of fibers carry the load the breaking strength is reduced. By using buckles you still have turns, just like a knot, so I think it would be the same as using a knot; at least that is what I am looking at anyway. So the advantage to using the buckles is ease of set up and, I thought, no knots to tie (not that I mind tieing knots mind you).
So if it takes you one minute to set up and me three minutes to set up, I am cool with that, because my system is less complicated (fewer parts = fewer failure points) and lighter.
Alas, it is too late, I have already ordered the rings. So I guess I will hafta play with it anyway when they arrive.
The only advantage I can see with the cinch buckles is a quicker set up. Is that right?
I just hate over-complicating things:rolleyes:
Since I don't have my rings yet I am just guessing here.
I think you have a valid point on the "bunching" of the webbing. More of the fibers bear the load if it is nice and flat, instead of bunched up like a knot. Okay, that makes sense to me now I think.
But it slips and you still gotta use a knot, even though the knot doesn't hold the lions share of the load. I guess if it slipped enough it would, then your back to relying on the knot, mostly anyway.
I have never seen a knot breaking strength comparison chart for webbing, just rope. And IIRC the slip knot wasn't one of the knots tested, but I will need to find the link to know for sure, I think it was eight knots.
However, using 1000 lb breaking strength webbing, with, a bowline in it (70% breaking strength I think) we still have around 700 lb SWL, of course this is for rope not webbing, but like I said, I lack the data.
So all things considered, to me, a knot is simpler and lighter, but not as quick. Even tho the braking strength "may" be lower than the buckle system, it is still within my weight limits; I haven't had a failure yet and I have been using knots all along.
Geez, how hard can it be to suspend a friggin' hammock?:eek: I should've had those rings shipped priority instead of standard...
Knot breaking strength comparison chart (http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/50/knotrope.html)
Like I said, no webbing, but good info.
slowhike
01-10-2008, 06:59
just for clarification, the ring buckles & the cinch buckle are two different things.
the cinch buckle http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/4/0/4/DSC_3466.JPG
doesn't seem to need a back up knot to prevent slipping. my only concern w/ the cinch buckle was that it put all the force involved in one sharp bend, over a very small surface.
as long as the webbing is strong enough, that probably isn't much of a concern though.
i felt that the ring buckles carried the load over a some what larger, more round surface. but there is also (sometimes) not enough resistance to prevent slipping, giving need for the slip knot, which is really serving more as a "stop knot".
i think both of the buckles just make it easier & quicker (less hassle) to readjust the hammock, as in centering between two trees, adjusting sag & height, etc.
also, a big plus for me is having the buckles just a few inches from each end of the hammock, therefore if it's raining i can make adjustments to the hammock from under the tarp, whether it's in the initial set up, or later on i see a need to make an adjustment (after i've taken my wet rain gear off<g>).
to me it's not that i want to impress someone (or have a race<g>) w/ my set up time (although it's nice when ground dwellers see how easy it was to get things just right<g>), but i just enjoy the convenience of the quick set up & adjustments. that way i can move on to something else, like getting water, starting supper, or just relaxing in my hammock<g>.
i'm sure open to simpler methods that involve less complication of extra parts, but w/ this system if for some reason a buckle fails, i still have the webbing & i can go back to the four warp method.
I've been playing with both rings and cinch buckles the last week or so, although I've only been able to do backyard testing so far.
I haven't had rings slip yet. What I do is put a bight of webbing through on the last step. Gives the rings a bit more to bite on and makes take-down and adjustment even easier. It also means you don't have to feed the whole length of webbing through if your trees are close and small. What I don't like about the rings is that you have to be aware of how you're tightening to be sure the webbing stays in line.
I just got my cinch buckles last night and put them on my hammock. They're cool. You can still feed a bight through on the last step for easier take-down, but it doesn't seem at all necessary for security.
The difference in a pair of cinch buckles and four rings (two on each end) is 10g on my digital kitchen scale.
I'm still not totally convinced of full webbing instead of huggers/line because of the weight and bulk, but I do like the security and durability.
Bug-Bait
01-11-2008, 11:22
I pull the webbing to where I want them through the ring buckles and just tie a slip knot...almost without thinking...every time. It is so simple and easy to do. I've never slipped...ever.
Cannibal
01-11-2008, 11:27
The only time I forget the slip knot is when I'm lecturing someone about how important they are to tie. You can ask HF member furtigan about that one! :o :D
Okay, I got my rings. The3y came in on Fri. but I have been out fishing all weekend. So I am going to try them out.
Okay, so I will try a slip knot next time I hang the hammock.
Other than that I notice my HH Exped. always loosens very... very easy with the ring buckle system. Example: I will hang the hammock 5 feet up! after tightening with the ring buckles and then once I sit down I sink to a foot from the ground. I know I will always sink down a certain ways, but the last time this happened I readjusted the ring buckles like 7 times and tried a whole bunch of knots and I still ended up a foot from the ground.
If the slip will stop this then problem solved, but I swear I made a knot where it was impossible to slip. Another hammock camper just says my HH naturally sags down a lot, I don't know about that. My webbing is also polypro and I was given it from a friend since I didn't have any webbing at all. I think it is only rated to 800 pounds... 800 or 1500, but I think it's 800.
It works for now so yeah. Slipknot please work, please oh please.
FanaticFringer
01-14-2008, 23:33
Okay, so I will try a slip knot next time I hang the hammock.
Other than that I notice my HH Exped. always loosens very... very easy with the ring buckle system. Example: I will hang the hammock 5 feet up! after tightening with the ring buckles and then once I sit down I sink to a foot from the ground. I know I will always sink down a certain ways, but the last time this happened I readjusted the ring buckles like 7 times and tried a whole bunch of knots and I still ended up a foot from the ground.
If the slip will stop this then problem solved, but I swear I made a knot where it was impossible to slip. Another hammock camper just says my HH naturally sags down a lot, I don't know about that. My webbing is also polypro and I was given it from a friend since I didn't have any webbing at all. I think it is only rated to 800 pounds... 800 or 1500, but I think it's 800.
It works for now so yeah. Slipknot please work, please oh please.
How far apart are the trees your hanging from? I always had a fair amount of
sagging when I used a Hennessy. I prefer the cinch buckles but it was probably not the rings causing it if you had a good knot on them.
So far I like the ring buckles. It is faster to hang. I double (use a bight) the webbing where it goes through the rings and have no problem with it slipping yet. I may hafta ditch the four wrap knot, the next hike will tell.
slowhike
01-15-2008, 06:32
So far I like the ring buckles. It is faster to hang. I double (use a bight) the webbing where it goes through the rings and have no problem with it slipping yet. I may hafta ditch the four wrap knot, the next hike will tell.
let us know what you think.
i know it's a little extra stuff but it's a pretty nice convenience to me.
especially if it's raining, to be able to adjust the hammock from under the tarp is great.