View Full Version : advice on whether i'm a hanger at heart?
when i got my first hammock last month, a hennessy hyperlite with zip entry, i was so delighted with how comfortable it is that i decided i would use it on my pct thru this year. i am an extremely cold sleeper and i've been using a marmot pinnacle 20+ down bag, with a liner and a neo air mattress... i even got a warbonnet superfly with doors, to attempt to give myself greater protection from the cold... even in spite of all the extra weight!!
alas, the superfly will not work, as i have messed with it for many hours, trying to get it off my hammock and not 10 feet in the air at the same time... i've emailed him to see if he will take it back, since it's only been set up in the yard (and under the dark skies of the PNW). there went that idea...
the only thing i can think of is getting a 0 degree bag and trying again with the stock hennessy tarp... i don't want to have to also carry an under quilt, as i want to use my neo air for going to ground scenarios (in 5-6 months on the pct, i hear there are at least a few nights! plus i'm hiking with a ground sleeper anyways) also i have strong doubts that an under quilt would even be enough...
is it possible that i am not a hanger at heart? physically, it's like a dream. but that is part of the problem... i feel very vulnerable in the air like that and so i was half dreaming on test nights about all sorts of hammocking relating nightmares!! :(
does anyone have any thoughts? or shall i just go back to the ground where i might belong?:mellow: :confused:
i wanted to thank you all for being on here- i've learned so much and had a lot of fun watching videos, reading about ideas, etc!
~shybird
SteelerNation
03-13-2011, 19:57
I wouldn't give up, if I were you. Sometimes it just takes a while. I've been messing around with my rig since October, and while I made it through the night, never really had that toasty warm feeling that I was looking for.
Friday night, I went out with my last attempt. It got down to around 30, which is pretty decent for around here. I slept with my JRB Mt Washington 3 UQ, my new JRB Hudson River TQ and my new JRB hood. Man, I have never been so warm! I went to bed in thermal pants and top, as well as a 100 weight fleece top. In the middle of the night, I had to take off the fleece as I was roasting! Needless to say, very happy with that setup.
I also have the Superfly with doors (separate doors - older model). I haven't really had any difficulty at all getting it exactly where I want it. A lot of the time there is a gap along the ground, but that hasn't been a problem for my sleeping. In fact, Friday I slept in porch mode so that I could see the woods when I woke up.
I would say that you can't underestimate the importance of the TQ/UQ combination and the hood really made a huge difference. My nose is normally frozen at night, and even though the hood doesn't cover my nose, there was enough heat there that it too stayed warm all night.
If you're having specific problems with the tarp, though, you might want to explain a little more, maybe with pictures, so that some of the smart folks on here can help you out.
Hope you get it figured out and stay off the nasty ground :)
SN
Sidewinder
03-13-2011, 20:13
+1 Don't Give Up!
I have had really hard time making the transition to hammocks. You can read my story here:
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19622
I know you said you want to stick with your pad, but the underquilt will make your experiance much, much better. I even think that the "nest-like" quality you get with down UQ's here from some of our makers here will help you feel less vunerable in a hammock. Beside, being less vulnerable in a tent or on the ground is only a perception. If you stick with it, you will figure out how to get warm and you will feel more secure as you get more night's in the hammock.
Best of luck with your thru hike.
~S
Dblcorona
03-13-2011, 20:35
I think you might want to consider trying a different pad. It would be a cheap way to adjust things. Get a closed cell pad, something like the Gossamer Gear pad. On the other hand, under quilts do work. Very efficient at holding your body heat in.
I say don't give up. I think you'll enjoy your trip more and hike with more energy with a good nights sleep. I'm not a thru hiker but I remember on trips, waking up a little sore from sleeping on the ground and it taking me a little time to get loosened up. Also after a long days hike, laying in a hammock would be awesome. JMO. Good luck.
Red Wing
03-13-2011, 20:48
Well, I would suggest first, get comfortable with the ability of your gear. However you have to test it to feel good about it. The only thing that can happen to you inthe air vs. on the ground in the woods is fall. Once you get rid of that anxiety I think you'll already see a huge improvement in comfort, you wont be tense.
Second, either try another pad, a hammock that can accomodate a pad so you dont' have to adjust or a sleeping bag that accomodates a pad if you'd like to go that way.
You can also invest in a quilt. Nice thing about those is they hold their value here as well so if you decide it'snot for you, you could probably get all your money back or most. I've recently switched to quilts and the difference for me was huge, I can't tell you how much more comortable I was not having to mentally keep track of how I'm moving or where stuff is. When I shuffle in the night I don't want to have to wake up and move something and go back to sleep. I can honestly tell you a properly hooked up UQ was the warmest most comfortable night I've ever spent outside and it was about 30-40 degrees
You may also want to look at an Exped Down Mat if you want to go to ground as well, there are a couple very comprehensive reviews on here that raved for it. Price is comprable to an underquilt.. maye a lil cheaper.
Hang in there, no pun intended.
I'll agree with the above ... get an UQ!
I tried 5 different pads, even a Neoair and gave them all up for the toasty comfort of down. Never look back.
Since I canoe or moto camp weight isn't so much of an issue so I'll bring my Neoair in case I have to go to ground.
Even if you carried both, the pad just for emergencies, they both pack small and don't weigh much. You could carry a 3/4 summer quilt and if it got really cold you could still combine them both.
Win/win.
leroybrown
03-13-2011, 21:56
Hey Shybird,
Hammocks and Tinkering are nearly synonymous. You have to love the "fiddle factor" of Hammocks in order to appreciate them. There are times when I've set up camp and am laying comfortably (and smugly!) watching my fellow ground dwellers cuss and swear at their set ups; however, I've been the butt of jokes and the object of relentless harassment due to a marlin spike hitch... slip and bleed.
Don't give up.
What exactly is the problem? Are you cold, or is it tarp difficulties? Like every other HF member, I highly recommend that you check out our local celebrity - Shug's youtube channel. If you are attempting a PCT, you've already paid the price for your gear. I'd suggest you bite the bullet and purchase an UQTQ if cold is the problem.
You have friends and supporters here! Let us know if we can help.
i guess even if i get a warmer sleeping bag, that won't help in a hammock, right, since i'm squashing the warmth between myself and the hammock? that is why they came up with underquilts?
steelernation... do you set up the superfly separate from your hammock? i have already converted to whoopie slings (made them and did it all myself thanks to these fine folks) and didn't put the stock HH tarp hook things onto my new suspension... i wonder if they would help?
basically the problem is my hammock touches (or nearly touches) the sides of the superfly, and that's before the wind starts to blow. if i widen the A-frame, then there is a huge gap between the doors. and if i tie out the sides (making my system HUGE which i very much dislike), i'm still so close to the tarp that i have to creep along it to get into the hammock. does that make sense? and is that normal? if i raise the whole tarp, i feels like i'm sleeping IN the wind with a foot or more gap between the ground and the tarp...
sidewinder, thank you for the link, i read it all... and i'm glad you found your sweet spot... btw, i grew up in marin county. C:
db... i have already ordered a gossamer pad, just to see the difference. C:
bubba, you're right about better sleep=better hike... it's the weight-of the huge tarp and warmth that i need for sleeping in the air- that will also impact my hike (due to increased pack weight) that i'm concerned about... thank you!
slo... so are you saying i should try falling out of the hammock? like back in the day when i first learned how to rock climb? practice falling? C: not a bad idea at all... the exped down mat seems awesome, but way too heavy for a 2650 mile hike... S:
danalex... i have strong doubts a 3/4 summer UQ would be sufficient for me... early spring in the desert and spring/summer in the sierras and then late summer/fall in washington is just cold!
does anyone know, since my only reference point is my HH hyperlite... are other hammocks just plain warmer?
leroybrown... thank you! you guys and gals really are awesome. C:
both cold and tarp issues. plus the added stress of the ticking clock, making tinkering difficult (we are leaving in about a month!) which is totally my fault (though i had to finish up my last quarter at WWU, i've been multitasking for years...)
the OQUQ setup still needs good weather protection, correct? being down?
it just seems like i'm going to have to carry a ton of stuff to feel prepared for the pct if i go with the hammock... with as little experience as i have, it may not be the best option at this point...
As a California hiker, I'm gonna say, stick with the pad. Get something together to give the neoair wings to use in the hammock, or go with a 3/4 length UQ plus the neoair under your legs, and go for it.
PCT is not something you want to be without options for. Folks who don't hike much over 10,000 feet don't get it. If you are in the treeless reaches and your knee starts to pitch a fit, you want to stop, but it's nine more miles to treeline? sucks. Don't get me wrong, UQ are the greatest thing for comfort, but if you are not going to be one of those hikers who knows they can for sure get that extra 10 miles to trees, it might be better to play it safe. Not to mention all that desert hiking at the start of the PCT - can't hang from joshua trees!
Take 8-10 foot tree huggers. That will give you more hanging opportunities.
The tarp issue - you might be one of those who prefers hanging closer to the ground? I personally prefer a tarp to be way above the hammock! gives me room to stand up in. But for what you're doing, I would think about how the tarp might be pitched in a ground configuration as well. I have no experience with the superfly or how big it is.
I use a JRB top quilt all the time, on the ground, in the hammock - wonderful quilt. I gave up sleeping bags before I started to hammock and haven't regretted it.
BTW, I'm a cold sleeper, frequently go out in high elevation Sierra - it's 30-20F year round at some elevations - and the NeoAir and JRB 3 season quilt have been brilliant for me. You need to have the layering system so you can add clothes in the event of weather causing sudden temp drops. But I've only had to sleep in more than one layer of clothes once.
SteelerNation
03-13-2011, 23:23
i guess even if i get a warmer sleeping bag, that won't help in a hammock, right, since i'm squashing the warmth between myself and the hammock? that is why they came up with underquilts?
steelernation... do you set up the superfly separate from your hammock? i have already converted to whoopie slings (made them and did it all myself thanks to these fine folks) and didn't put the stock HH tarp hook things onto my new suspension... i wonder if they would help?
basically the problem is my hammock touches (or nearly touches) the sides of the superfly, and that's before the wind starts to blow. if i widen the A-frame, then there is a huge gap between the doors. and if i tie out the sides (making my system HUGE which i very much dislike), i'm still so close to the tarp that i have to creep along it to get into the hammock. does that make sense? and is that normal? if i raise the whole tarp, i feels like i'm sleeping IN the wind with a foot or more gap between the ground and the tarp...
Well, I'm not a seasoned hammock vet like some of those out here, but I have done my fair share of tinkering to try to figure out what would work for me. That said, what you observed about the sleeping bag getting squashed is most definitely true. I sleep with a down TQ and down UQ which together weigh about the same as a traditional down sleeping bag. Really, all you are doing with the combination is creating a sleeping bag with a hammock in the middle. Once I got the UQ cinched up tight (I tightened the end suspensions and added really thin shock cord from the sides to my ridgeline which pullled everything up tight), I no longer experienced any cold spots underneath me (very nice :D). I tried a synthetic TQ that I made myself, but it didn't really drape very nicely over me, so I bit the bullet and bought the down TQ. The TQ is rated to 25-30 degrees, so I was near the bottom of it's stated range and was plenty warm. I also added the 2 or so ounce down hood and it really made a difference as well. I actually modified my TQ a little bit to make it really pull in nicely for me. The Hudson River TQ that I bought is designed so that you can also use it as an UQ by adding suspension. That said, it has two tie-out tabs on the top and two additional tie-out tabs down each side. I took a piece of 3/32" shock cord and connected the two top tabs and the first set of side tabs. By putting those over my head and putting my feet in the footbox, the whole thing really surrounded my body but I couldn't even feel the shock cord. Let me know if you need to see pictures of what I'm talking about.
With regard to the Superfly w/doors, when it's colder, I pitch it lower to the ground, which makes me have to bend over a little bit underneath it, but keeps it closer to the hammock. You probably know this, but you need to run your tarp line underneath the hammock suspension to get it low enough for this (Got that from Shug's videos). Not sure exactly what you mean by the side tieouts, but I stake the bottom of the tarp pretty close to the ground then put shock cord on the middle pullouts (in the middle of the tarp sides) and connect that over a hiking pole and then to the ground. That really "fattens" the tarp without widening the footprint. It also does a great job of keeping it from bumping into the hammock, even when I'm using my blackbird with the tieouts deployed.
The overall height of the tarp is going to be a compromise between standing comfort and wind passing underneath. I think that you'll find that with a good TQ/UQ combination, the wind underneath issue won't be a big one (you'll be hanging above that opening anyway) and you'll be able to hang it a little higher so that you can stand underneath. Good to know that you have both options, though.
A little wordy I know, but hope that it helps some. I spent a number of nights just hanging in my back yard on on my back porch trying to get things tuned in. Once I got into the woods, I felt like I had 95% dialed in and felt pretty comfortable.
If you have other questions, feel free to ask and PM if you would like.
Look forward to reading (and hopefully watching) the fun that you'll have on your hike!
SN
leroybrown
03-13-2011, 23:24
Shybird,
You know, the bag will work fine as a top quilt. If you actually bought a top quilt, it would be lighter.
I don't think there is a good way to get around the fact that a underquilt works
I have an IX underquilt, (3 layers) that I made myself. Mac here on the forums makes them as well. It weighs about 19 ounces and you don't have to stress about getting it wet.
See, if either the first or last part of your journey was going to be cold, I would tell you to take a simple, DIY hammock without a bug net (cold - no bugs) and then swap it out for your mosquito-proof hammock when you reached warmer temperatures. With a simple DIY hammock you can put your sleeping bag AROUND the hammock and arrive at some very comfortable temperatures. This advice is rendered useless because you'll be in the desert, where it is in fact cold, but you also want critter protection.
Um.. as far as protecting the down, there are climashields that are simple and made out of sil. basically a second hammock hanging under the down, if that is what you choose, to protect it from moisture.
I'm with whoever said to get a summer UQ and augment it with your pad. I've not tried it myself, but I know my IX gets me to 35 easy. It's 3/4 length and I just put a 12' square piece of reflectix under my feet.
SteelerNation
03-13-2011, 23:27
As a California hiker, I'm gonna say, stick with the pad. Get something together to give the neoair wings to use in the hammock, or go with a 3/4 length UQ plus the neoair under your legs, and go for it.
PCT is not something you want to be without options for. Folks who don't hike much over 10,000 feet don't get it. If you are in the treeless reaches and your knee starts to pitch a fit, you want to stop, but it's nine more miles to treeline? sucks. Don't get me wrong, UQ are the greatest thing for comfort, but if you are not going to be one of those hikers who knows they can for sure get that extra 10 miles to trees, it might be better to play it safe. Not to mention all that desert hiking at the start of the PCT - can't hang from joshua trees!
Take 8-10 foot tree huggers. That will give you more hanging opportunities.
I hike primarily in the East so do have limited experience in areas without trees. I think that the recommendations on the top/bottom combinations are still valid, but you definitely need to consider your options when the terrain forces you to go to ground.
SN
gargoyle
03-14-2011, 04:39
Meet up with a local hanger and test a quilt (a underquilt). I think you'll be suprised at the heat. Possibly gather a few of the locals together in a "hang and show me" groupfest?
Should you quit hanging....:confused:
... your asking the wrong crowd. :lol:
lori... your suggestions and advice are very helpful... thank you... i'm still very much on the fence but for sure, the pad must come... i guess i'd make some longer huggers, i have only the stock HH huggers...
sn... yes, i was hanging the tarp as you describe and trying to keep it low (bc i was getting so cold) but even tying out the middle points of the superfly (all four of them), i'm still having the hammock touch the sides... and when i'm getting in, i'm basically creeping along the side of the tarp... i haven't experienced condensation yet, but isn't it best to be able to avoid touching the insides of your tarp?
i'm going to keep trying i guess. warbonnet was really quick in answering my questions about the superfly before i bought it, but he hasn't replied about my inquiry to return it. i'm guessing that no answer is my answer... and i understand. i'm going to get a warmer bag and stick with my neoair. also got the gossamer for shoulder wings... i'm still resisting the UQ leroy C: if i can warm up on top with a warmer bag, the neoair and smartwool instead of synthetic will possibly be enough. at least until i'm not hiking so many miles, and weight is such an issue...
i may take pics and PM you steelernation about superfly setup help...
again, thank you all for the support and well-wishes! have a great day!
Hey Shybird.....
I did a 10 part video series for the new guys ....may give you some answers or thoughts.
Shug's Hammock How-To (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15516)
Hope it may help some,
Shug
guySmiley
03-15-2011, 21:11
Go with the lightest setup that you can put together. If it's a tent, go with it.
Especially early on, when you're still getting you're trail legs, limiting that weight is going to be much more beneficial than the theoretical better nights sleep you'd get in a hammock.
vesteroid
03-16-2011, 14:18
I live in the sierras and hike at those altitudes all summer long and ski all winter long.
While I havent even gotten my hammock yet, I can tell you I have purchased a uq and already have a top quilt. I have also gotten a torso lenght foam pad as my uq is only 3/4 length and I want the ability to go to ground.
With a 3/4 uq and the foam pad along with my hiking poles, I believe I can hang most of the time, sleep on the ground when it dictates, and be at least tolerably warm all the time.
Obviously nights on the torso pad on the ground will not be as comfy in warmth or sleeping comfort, but you wont feeze and you should be able to sleep. And all in all there is not a significant weight penalty (the light torso pad about equals what it weighs to go to a full uq.
Mindwalk
03-16-2011, 14:38
Hey Shybird,
Just saw this post and thought I'd offer anything I could. I'm fairly new to all this too, but have been out a few times. I've never really been much of a camper before because I always hated sleeping on the ground. As soon as a buddy of mine introduced me to hammocks, I became fairly engrossed with the idea.
I have a WBBB and a new 3-Season Incubator UQ that I'd be more than willing to show off for you.
I'm in Bellingham too, so feel free to shoot me a PM and we can compare notes and try out gear if you're interested. Let me know,
~Mindwalk
SHUG! omg- a celebrity is actually talking to my thread!! i've already watched all your videos, they are what got me so excited about hammocking for sure, and i've learned a ton from them. i certainly appreciate all the other videos out there on various aspects of hammocking, buts yours absolutely rock. i need to watch them all a second time through to glean more tidbits. thank you!
guysmiley, you hammocked the whole way, correct? besides going as light as possible, do you have any pct-specific tips? anything you can think of would be a great help...
vestervoid, thank you for the tips and for sharing what you've got... i just got my goss pad, nice and light, to supplement my neoair...
mindwalk, so you're up here in the Ham... sweet! i'm finishing up at Western and then digging into the remaining details and planning till lift off. i'll def let you know if i'm still struggling with the warmth, then i may want to check out your UQ...
i went to the park today and set everything up again... the superfly is looking better... when i bought it, it wasn't clear that it seems required to tie out all four side ties every single time. this isn't ideal, but as i'm getting the hang of it, it's getting easier... i doubt i would've purchased it had i known this.
i also bought a warmer bag that will also be warmer on the ground... with all the encouragement, i'm not giving up yet... but i will also have my home base prepared to send me my tent... hopefully won't be necessary.
thank you all again for the help.:D
I'm a bit coffee'd up at the moment and may have missed it but - what are you using for bottom insulation? If you haven't tried any yet, that is why you're cold :)
I use pads and have no problem with them (2x layer hammock). Get a nice wide foam pad and give it another go!
Don't give up yet... if you could have made it work and didn't try that would be a real shame since hanging is sooo comfortable and niceee.... mmmmm Hammockk......
EDIT: Hey! There it is! Maybe I have ADD?
"and a neo air mattress"
Get a foam pad ;) They can't be under-filled and compress under your butt like some air pads can.
It will cost you ~$15 to try it.
Once you know if you know pads keep you warm but want more warmth, buy a underquilt (ca-ching $ $)
EDIT:EDIT: Wow... Post # 666... scarrry!! (Sorry... more coffee)
Generally for keeping the tarp off the hammock you can increase the gap between the hammock and the tarp (vertically, which in turn increases it at the sides), make sure they pullouts are going out at a steep angle and that they don't come together too soon if your using a "V" type line to connect both. If its too short of a V they sag if the middle and do virtually nothing.
xexorz, you gave me a great laugh this morning :) i have a gossamer pad now that i'm going to try with the neoair.
tbctx, yes! with all of the fumbling around, i finally figured that out with the tie outs, and that is why things are going better... i'm learning! and even if it's stressful, we're leaving in about 3 weeks, it's still fun!
when i get home, and hammocking goes great on the trail, i'll have to figure out how to get my dog into a hammock! (ha, yeah, right!)
guySmiley
03-19-2011, 13:12
Actually, I used a Tarptent until I reached Cascade Locks. Now that I've been through the whole thing, if I was to do it again, I would use a hammock the entire time.
That's not to say that I'd be hanging the whole time though. There were probably about a handful of nights where the ground was a better option for one reason or another.
One of the reasons that I like the hammock/tarp way of doing things is it just provides more options.
Go at your own pace. Do not let anyone else set your pace. Doing so will get you injured, and can end your hike. It happens all the time. It almost happened to me.
Try and spend as little time in towns as possible, and keep your miles low early on. There's no point in getting into the Sierras early. It'll just make things harder on you.
Don't let people put the fear in you. You're in for a heavy snow year. From what I've read this year is going to be a lot like last year in terms of snow. Last year people were dropping like flies on rumors that it was SOOOOOOO dangerous that you were sure to die if you set one foot in snow. For me, there were 2 obstacles that actually lived up to the hype. Bear Creek, which deserves serious respect, and crossing the log over the Suiattle River. I hear that the bridge is supposed to be up for sure over the Suiattle so you won't have to worry about that.
What's your start date, and are you keeping a journal online? I'd love to follow it if you are.
OH yeah, rodent prevention is important. I had more problems with rodents than I did with bears. That was solved once I was hanging because I just left my food in my pack hanging off my straps at night. Before that, I had several nights where I had to pick turds out of my couscous before I cooked it. Nasty...
SHUG! omg- a celebrity is actually talking to my thread!! i've already watched all your videos, they are what got me so excited about hammocking for sure, and i've learned a ton from them. i certainly appreciate all the other videos out there on various aspects of hammocking, buts yours absolutely rock. i need to watch them all a second time through to glean more tidbits. thank you!
guysmiley, you hammocked the whole way, correct? besides going as light as possible, do you have any pct-specific tips? anything you can think of would be a great help...
vestervoid, thank you for the tips and for sharing what you've got... i just got my goss pad, nice and light, to supplement my neoair...
mindwalk, so you're up here in the Ham... sweet! i'm finishing up at Western and then digging into the remaining details and planning till lift off. i'll def let you know if i'm still struggling with the warmth, then i may want to check out your UQ...
i went to the park today and set everything up again... the superfly is looking better... when i bought it, it wasn't clear that it seems required to tie out all four side ties every single time. this isn't ideal, but as i'm getting the hang of it, it's getting easier... i doubt i would've purchased it had i known this.
i also bought a warmer bag that will also be warmer on the ground... with all the encouragement, i'm not giving up yet... but i will also have my home base prepared to send me my tent... hopefully won't be necessary.
thank you all again for the help.:D
hi guysmiley!
when you went to ground, were the bugs bad? i'm hearing about ants, too... that's very helpful information though because i was tempted to tent the desert as well... i'm almost determined again at this point, to hammock the whole thing... a few more test nights...
thank you for the rest of that advice, too. i'll need to remind myself of all that. i am hiking with my good friend and so compromise is already in the cards, and we definitely differ in some of our styles and expectations, but we're doing a good job at keeping communication open. C:
our start date is april 15th. i just set up an online journal last night. the direct link is
www.postholer.com/shybird
i'd be honored to have you follow me! and chime in any time with anything! i won't be updating it from the trail, but in towns, and i hope to keep up with it.... i may end up just sending my paper journals from the trail to a friend to type up and post for me... did you keep an online journal?
guySmiley
03-24-2011, 20:42
The only times I had any issues with bugs while I was sleeping was when I was cowboy camping. I was fully enclosed and protected from bugs then entire time I was in the desert. I had read too much about giant ants and scorpions to feel comfortable out in the open in SoCal. My first cowboy camping wasn't until the night before going over Pinchot Pass in the Sierras. It was below freezing that night so I didn't have to worry about bugs at all. Frozen sneakers on the other hand...
I did keep a journal: postholer.com/swope
Have fun! I'll definitely be keeping my eye on your journal.