JRB Nest, or Speer SnugFit. Sell me on one.

[whitefoot_hp]

I have narrowed down my UQ selection to these two quilts. I particularly would like to hear about the Snug Fit. Is its design that much superior to the Nest? It seems with all of the curves taken into account along with linear baffles, its seems like a much better design. Is it worth the extra weight is my main question. thanks for any responses.

[Take-a-knee]

The Nest is designed to fit a Hennessy hammock,and it does and excellent job, better than anything else IMO. I believe the Snug Fit fits a Speer? Someone else may know.

[Coffee]

What hammock are you using?

I remember talking with this with someone at somepoint and was told a good point. The Snug fit by design works really well for cold conditions. The nest will work over a bigger range of temps. I use an UQ similar to the nest. I am able to vent it really easily with either adjusting the attachment to the ridgeline or by loosening one or both of the drawcords.

I was able to vent using those methods and use my 3.5" loft quilt all year last year as my only UQ.

[Youngblood]

I want to clear up some confusion.

There are presently two models of SnugFit Underquilts http://www.speerhammocks.com/Products/SnugFit.htm , one specifically for a Speer Hammock and a Universal Model for most non-spreader bar style hammocks, including Hennessy Hammocks. The Speer Model takes advantage of the hook and loop tape sewn along the edge of a Speer Hammock to work like an insulated hammock with a Speer Hammock while the Universal Model uses tabs along the side to aid in the fit when necessary. Both models use the identical full width suspension system that attaches to the ends of the hammocks.

And yes you can easily vent either model by lengthening the shockcord attachments that attaches at the ends of the hammock such that the SnugFit is no longer held snug against the bottom of the hammock. There is nothing terribly complicated about venting, it is getting a good fit that is difficult.

[angrysparrow]

...the Universal Model uses tabs along the side to aid in the fit when necessary...

...you can easily vent either model by lengthening the shockcord attachments that attaches at the ends of the hammock such that the SnugFit is no longer held snug against the bottom of the hammock. There is nothing terribly complicated about venting, it is getting a good fit that is difficult.

I would add to that this: It is also possible to achieve some side-venting with the Universal model SnugFit by guying out the side tabs with a piece of shock cord. In addition to the normal venting method this gives a lot of options.

I've owned the Universal model SnugFit for several months now, and I've been extremely pleased with it. Yes, it is slightly heavier than other options, but it just cannot be beat for hassle-free setup. It's really a top-notch product.

[headchange4u]

I would add to that this: It is also possible to achieve some side-venting with the Universal model SnugFit by guying out the side tabs with a piece of shock cord. In addition to the normal venting method this gives a lot of options.

I've owned the Universal model SnugFit for several months now, and I've been extremely pleased with it. Yes, it is slightly heavier than other options, but it just cannot be beat for hassle-free setup. It's really a top-notch product.

I have to agree with angrysparrow's comments. The SnugFit is the best under quilt out there right now, IMHO. IF you are looking for JUST an under quilt the Snug Fit is your best choice.

If you are looking for a more versatile piece of gear the JRB quilt may suit you better because it can be used as a top quilt or camp clothing.

[whitefoot_hp]

If you are looking for a more versatile piece of gear the JRB quilt may suit you better because it can be used as a top quilt or camp clothing.
that is essentially where i am at. one more question, though. is the Speer snugfit that much better of an UQ as to outweigh the versatility of the Nest?
for starters, what temp rating can the nest achieve if it is the sole under insulation?

[Mule]

I also agree. I have both, but I take my snugfit with me for a bottom quilt. When I got mine, I asked for the universal model but the order got shipped as a Speer Model. Rather than send it back, I put loops on it like the NSniveler or Nest and it works great. In fact, I sewed velcro on the edges of my Claytor to accomedate the Snugfits velcro but though it was nice and worked well, even though the Claytor was 1 foot narrower than the SF. But now I have even stopped using the Claytor with the Velcro and went to using an unaltered one, it still works well. It seems this thing will fit anyway you want to put it on. Mule

[Bulldog]

Fo rme, it would come down to the types of conditions and temp ranges I'm using the quilt in, and the big one for me, weight. The JRB Nest or N/S is a goo deal lighter at 20 oz instead of 32, 30 or 29 oz, depending on which run.
My nest has worked well into the high 20s with some techiqunes helping to add those extra degrees. So for me, I dont like the Idea of carrying those extra oz's, but then again I am an ounce counter. Perhaps if speer did a 1/2 length sungfit (Hint Hint, Wink Wink) I would probly go over to it (Wink Wink).

[angrysparrow]

is the Speer snugfit that much better of an UQ as to outweigh the versatility of the Nest?

Probably not, if you want to use the Nest as a garment. The great thing about the SnugFit is that it is made with radially cut baffles and spandex-like suspension. That allows it to snug perfectly up to the shape of a hammock bottom with no suspension tinkering. It's no-brainer warmth. But, if you don't mind learning to get a good fit with the Nest and want the versatility of garment-use, it may be a better choice for you.


Perhaps if speer did a 1/2 length sungfit (Hint Hint, Wink Wink) I would probly go over to it (Wink Wink).

Are you listening to this, Youngblood? ;)

[winger]

So far I've had my Nest with HH into the mid 30's and stayed warm, but I plan on doing a colder nights hang as soon as the weather cooperates, which may be as soon as this weekend. I went the "4 season package" (Nest, Old Rag Mtn and No Sniveler) and so far I'm glad I did, all 3 quilts will see extensive use. One comment though is that even though the Nest is intended to be used with the HH, having the same corresponding slit, I actually find it more convenient to keep the Nest intact, not use the slit, and just push it aside when entering and exiting. The reason being that it does take extra time lining the velcros up between the Nest and the HH every time the Nest is reattached. I know there are others who just leave it attached all the time.

[Youngblood]

I'm listening, I'm an ounce counter too.

When you compare one system without extra insulation with another system with extra insulation, what are you comparing? I added a 5x10 piece of 1 mil plastic as a vapor barrier in the shape of a hammock with raised sides between my hammock and my SnugFit last night and sleep fine at 20F. The vapor barrier probably weighs 4 or 5 ounces but it didn't affect my sleeping comfort because once it was installed the SnugFit held in in place and I didn't have to mess with it. That is with silk long johns, a 20 degree sleeping bag, and a WinterTarp pitched tight. Without that vapor barrier and using those light weight long johns, 30F is the rating I would give the SnugFit... but I'm not adding pads, warm clothing, or other bottom side insulation with that 30F number either. There are all kinds of things you can do to skew data. You can wear extra clothes, use auxiliary pads etc.

And as far as dual use goes, even a jacket can have dual use as extra insulation when you sleep, just like a rain suit can act like a vapor barrier. You can make dual use out of all kinds of things, but somethings you may want to think about what happens if you have an "opps" with and how you are going to make it through a cold night with if something happens to it. Some items are designed for rough use, thorns, embers, etc and some are not.

There are no lead weights in the SnugFit. The additional weight is in a larger coverage area so you can sleep more comfortably by laying in a wider variety of positions, a zero migration down fill so you don't have to worry about down being where you need it, and a suspension system that keeps the SnugFit adjusted to you so you so you can stay warm.

All these things are a matter of personal preference, just as hammock size and width are. But I will tell you that there is nothing like a SnugFit for getting a comfortable nights sleep. Trying to fit a flat quilt on a complex shape like a hammock is touchy because they are not designed to fit the shape they are trying to match. And a corner suspension system simply can't be as responsive as a full width suspension system when you reposition yourself during the night. Temperatures generally drop during the night so you may not know if you need to readjust until you wake up cold. If that happens, then you have to get up and get even colder when you try to figure out what you need to readjust. Why some folks may find that a challenge and a skill to be mastered, other folks might prefer to just sleep and not have to mess with that.

[Youngblood]

I threw the vapor barrier on a hammock and took a few photos before I lost light. I used a 5x10 feet piece of 1 mil plastic drop cloth. It was very easy to cut because the package was 10x20 feet. It was folded about 1 foot wide along the 20 feet length so I did the following operations to easily get 5x10 feet pieces. 1- Held it just like that with the two 20 feet ends together and found the half way point. 2- Cutting at the half way point left me with two 10x10 feet pieces. 3- Performed the same operation to get 5x10 feet pieces.

I cut two 3 feet pieces of 1/2 wide elastic to make a single point suspension system. I folded the ends making the sides progressively shorter and then pulled 4 inch or so ears before using a slippery double sheet bend using the 1/2 inch elastic. I tweaked the ears a couple of times to get what I thought would work after laying in the hammock with just the vapor barrier in place-- that is very easy with the slippery double sheet bend as it unties and re-ties in just seconds (when you know how).

[BillyBob58]

And as far as dual use goes, even a jacket can have dual use as extra insulation when you sleep, just like a rain suit can act like a vapor barrier. You can make dual use out of all kinds of things, but somethings you may

EXACTLY! That has been my way of reasoning. For example, you have the very famous dual use of a NoSniverler type product. Top quilt or bottom quilt, plus it's your super warm camp jacket. But, another approach that I use is the lofty yet lightweight jackets and/or vests that I have on a cold weather trip are also part of my sleep system. Which lowers the weight I take in sleeping bag or quilt. And, with the PeaPod or SS, some of that, if needed, goes underneath to significantly boost warmth.

[slowhike]

because it takes some "know how" & some attention to detail to get most underquilts fitted jut right, i don't really want to have to remove an underquilt to use as a sherpa if it's that cold, then have to re-fit it to the hammock before going to bed.

i'd rather have a top quilt that could be worn if needed.

i may not wear the no sniveller around camp on a regular basis, but i think it's a really good idea to have readily available when my jacket isn't enough.

to me the more ideal set up might be a snugfit underquilt & a no sniveller type top quilt.
i've slept in a snugfit & it was GREAT!!!

[FanaticFringer]

because it takes some "know how" & some attention to detail to get most underquilts fitted jut right, i don't really want to have to remove an underquilt to use as a sherpa if it's that cold, then have to re-fit it to the hammock before going to bed.

i'd rather have a top quilt that could be worn if needed.

i may not wear the no sniveller around camp on a regular basis, but i think it's a really good idea to have readily available when my jacket isn't enough.

to me the more ideal set up might be a snugfit underquilt & a no sniveller type top quilt.
i've slept in a snugfit & it was GREAT!!!

That would be one nice combo.

[greggg3]

See, I knew this was going to happen (really my wife says she knew it was going to happen).

As Youngblood says, I'm one of the ones who couldn't deal with the "tinkering" etc. required to get/keep a good fit with a rectangular under quilt, in my case a JRB Old Rag Mtn. After multiple attempts with different rigging, shock cord arrangements, I never was confident enough take the underquilt to the trail. So the ORM is now my top quilt, and I'm back to ccf pads for insulation. Now here are all these testimonials about the snugfit, even brainless idiot can get a great fit with it...how can I legitimately write off underquilts if I haven't tried the snugfit.

So I've been trying to explain to the wife why I now need to buy another underquilt. "I thought you had one of those already"
I wasn't sure whether to try:
(a)"yes, but honey I'm giving the ORM quilt to you for Valentines"
(b)"yes but honey, the first one required skill and patience to use, this one even a brainless idiot can get a snug fit with"

I went with (b) and got partial agreement, but not green lighted on buying the snugfit yet.

I knew this was going to happen. Boy did you guys sure opened up a can of worms, making me lust for a snug fit. She's also started wondering why I now have 5 different sil nylon tarps. ( I think it must have been a retorical question, cause she didn't seem extremely interested when I launched into the technical explanation of the suitablility of each tarp for certain outdoor situations) How many backpacks do I actually have now, she's wondering (why would anyone count something like that? you just have as many as you need right?).

Not to go off the thread topic, but does anyone see anything wrong with picking up a gallon of milk and a dozen roses from Krogers (you know, since it saves a stop at the florists)?

[headchange4u]

Not to go off the thread topic, but does anyone see anything wrong with picking up a gallon of milk and a dozen roses from Krogers (you know, since it saves a stop at the florists)?

Flowers are flowers, right?:p

[angrysparrow]

Flowers are flowers, right?:p

He should pick up an assortment of flours instead of flowers. ;) THAT would be more amusing.

[Preacha Man]

He should pick up an assortment of flours instead of flowers. ;) THAT would be more amusing.

If he is trying to get the green light for a snugfit, it better lots of flowers, dinner, WHATEVER IT TAKES :eek: !!!!!! For me to get an ok, I would have to change all the diapers for a month :eek: , I don't need one that bad yet :D .

[BillyBob58]

Yeah, that idiot proof Snugfit would be nice. I'm sure I would have got one of those instead if I had a crystal ball and had known they were going on sale the week after I paid full price for a PeaPod! Not that I haven't loved the pod and managed to stay toasty warm, every time I've used it, even down to 10* ( with added space blanket on bottom and warm clothes plus summer quilt on top). It is great, but it requires the same foolin with that an UQ does.

And I have never really found the ideal adjustment. I either have a small amount of air gap beneath me or a small amount of loft compression, probably for the reasons Youngblood has pointed out. But, I suspect the air gaps are not as critical as with a regular UQ, because when you close the thing up you don't have a constantly replenished dose of cold air rushing down there to fill the gap. I don't know, just guessing. All I know is I am always warm unless I have CLEARLY overtightened and compressed the loft. And that really doesn't happen anymore since I have learned about where things need to be. And if it is too loose causing and air gap, I seem to get away with that and still be warm, as long as it's just a "small gap".

But from a more practical approach, I seem to most often just go ahead and hang it with obviously too much sag, and then I routinely toss a spare jacket or vest or whatever I'm not wearing ( and or a space blanket/vapor barrier) in there. Then, I end up with no gap at all and 3 or 4 or 5" of loft under my back and butt. Now, let me tell you, that is warm! But, that is at least potentially a problem, since it won't allow me to wear every single item to bed on top, if needed. But, so far it has not even been close to needing everything on top. It's amazing how little I need on top once the bottom warmth is solidly taken care of.

None the less, though the pod is great, I find myself lusting for the snug fit of the Snugfit. (Or better yet, maybe the next Youngblood/Speer design/collaboration: the Snugfit PeaPod!) And I'm pretty sure that had it been available at recent "on sale" prices, I would have scarfed one up, and had an adjustment free snug-fit plus saved about $100 compared to the PeaPod. Then I would have just used one of my existing sleeping bags on top, or bought a NoSniveler.

[slowhike]

.None the less, though the pod is great, I find myself lusting for the snug fit of the Snugfit. (Or better yet, maybe the next Youngblood/Speer design/collaboration: the Snugfit PeaPod!) ..

i'm thinking a snugfit on a hammock w/ an uninsulated top that zips closed up the center, enclosing you & your top quilt<g>.

[Coffee]

How about a pod with a built in top section. Completly enclosing you in a giant warm goodness of down.

[BillyBob58]

How about a pod with a built in top section. Completly enclosing you in a giant warm goodness of down.

Can you elaborate? Are you proposing something different than the current PeaPod, which has a built in top section and completely surrounds you?

[BillyBob58]

i'm thinking a snugfit on a hammock w/ an uninsulated top that zips closed up the center, enclosing you & your top quilt<g>.

Yep, best of both!

[Coffee]

Kind of. Basically a way to be completly surrounded by down. I have been playing around with this idea, but haven't taken it any farther.

Kind of like a pea pod with instead of the opening at the top, hence no insulation on top, move the velcro to the side. Maybe put some extra insulation on top so it fulls up some of the space above you. This might be warmer, or at least might make it so you do not need a top quilt.

[BillyBob58]

Kind of. Basically a way to be completly surrounded by down. I have been playing around with this idea, but haven't taken it any farther.

Kind of like a pea pod with instead of the opening at the top, hence no insulation on top, move the velcro to the side. Maybe put some extra insulation on top so it fulls up some of the space above you. This might be warmer, or at least might make it so you do not need a top quilt.

Though you can probably improve on it, when the pod opening at the head/foot end is cinched down in normal use, and the top Velcro closed, you are pretty much completely surrounded by down. Though much of it may not be in direct contact with your body. It really is very similar to being in a mummy bag, except a quite large one with some excess room to heat. But none the less, amazingly warm when closed up. I suspect what you are telling me about is some means of getting the down to contact you on top, and the sides and overhead, without the extra space that must be warmed up, or filled with a top quilt and a hood or something to fill the space on above your head? It can be used by me to at least 40* without a top quilt, just good long Johns, but what you are describing would allow the full 20* rating on top without top quilt. I can already achieve this by laying mid-line with a good bit of sag. Then the down lays right on top of me. WARM! But of course, this limits your position options.

So maybe you ( or Youngblood or someone) can engineer one that is a Snugfit on bottom, and which solves the excess room to heat on top, while still retaining the WONDERFUL ability to be sealed in- head to toe, with or without a breathing hole of various sizes-, semi-mummy bag style. It seems to me that simply a larger pod could accomplish this. Particularly if attached to the sides by Velcro the way a Snugfit is. But, the PeaPod is awfully big already, and naturally that would also add weight. And expense!

[Coffee]

Yeah the cost and weight equation is always the fun part.

After seeing the snug fit and all the work and design that is behind that, I have no desire to go anywhere near it. I don't think I could come close to making it for the cost or as well or better. It would be interesting to see if you could add a top section to it.

This may also go along with our comments on another thread about putting a draft tube on somewhere.

I have a ton of things to try out and make. Time and money wise it will be a couple months before I can get started on any of them. Until then it is fun to plan.

[slowhike]

i'm thinking about getting one of the snugfits (speer type w/ velcro) & make a simple, non-insulated top from 1.1 ripstop that velcros to the outside of the snugfit.
that would enclose you & your topquilt in a draft free environment.

[angrysparrow]

i'm thinking about getting one of the snugfits (speer type w/ velcro) & make a simple, non-insulated top from 1.1 ripstop that velcros to the outside of the snugfit.
that would enclose you & your topquilt in a draft free environment.

This winter I've been using my SnugFit inside a light hammock sock. That has proven to be very warm indeed.

[Youngblood]

I threw the vapor barrier on a hammock and took a few photos before I lost light. I used a 5x10 feet piece of 1 mil plastic drop cloth. It was very easy to cut because the package was 10x20 feet. It was folded about 1 foot wide along the 20 feet length so I did the following operations to easily get 5x10 feet pieces. 1- Held it just like that with the two 20 feet ends together and found the half way point. 2- Cutting at the half way point left me with two 10x10 feet pieces. 3- Performed the same operation to get 5x10 feet pieces.

I cut two 3 feet pieces of 1/2 wide elastic to make a single point suspension system. I folded the ends making the sides progressively shorter and then pulled 4 inch or so ears before using a slippery double sheet bend using the 1/2 inch elastic. I tweaked the ears a couple of times to get what I thought would work after laying in the hammock with just the vapor barrier in place-- that is very easy with the slippery double sheet bend as it unties and re-ties in just seconds (when you know how).

I added a second, loosely held plastic vapor barrier on the outside of the SnugFit and was comfortable to the 15F low we had a couple of nights ago. I was under a WinterTarp. With just the first vapor barrier between the hammock and underquilt I was comfy last year to 20F.

These vapor barriers are simple to make and inexpensive. They should boost the low end temperature of any breathable underquilt for those cases where you just need a little more. I would not use the one on the outside without the one on the inside because it could trap moisture inside the underquilt. Just for reference, I was comfy at 30F with SnugFit as a breathable underquilt, 20F with a plastic vapor barrier between the hammock and the SnugFit, and 15F with another plastic 'weather shield'. Vapor barriers do reduce the upper temperature that you will be comfortable so know when to use them and when not.

I also taped a draw string hem into a mylar emergency blanket and make a quasi foot pocket out of it. I put that inside my 25F sleeping bag and was able to boost its lower temperature also... how much I don't know because it didn't get cold enough for me to be anything but toasty warm on top. Again, you are dealing with a vapor barrier to boost the performance of breathable insulation so you need to understand what is going on. That mylar sheet is nice an light, pretty tough, and noisy!

[BillyBob58]

If the budget allows it, I think you are better off with one of the "snug" designs. I have not had the pleasure of trying the Speer Snugfit, which I have no doubt is one of the top designs, and maybe the very top for all I know.

But I have used both the Warbonnet torso Climashield and the JRB Mt.Washington UQ. Both of these are meant to be snugged nice and tight against your back. This greatly simplifies set up and ease of being warm. You have little or no worries about over tightening and compressing loft. And sense you routinely "snug" to your back, you have little worry about hanging too loose with a resulting cold gap. And if you use a JRB MWUQ with a JRB BMBH ( Bridge hammock), it is almost an automatic custom fit with only miniscule adjustments required after attaching.

So, if you can afford it, go with a "snug" design. If you need the versatility of a "wearable" UQ, consider using that as a top quilt.

OTOH, I have yet to find anything easier to get warm in than my PeaPod, which is a non-snug design. There is some setup hassle factor in making sure the pod is almost snug to your back, but not too tight thus compressing loft. But, once adjusted on the specific hammock, I just leave it attached and that is all it takes. This probably applies to something like a Nest also- get it adjusted and then leave it on the hammock, store both together. But I think that if I ere on the side of too much gap, the "closed system" of the PeaPod helps me get away with it. There is little or no cold air sinking down into the gap. Without this closed system, I think I prefer the "snug" designs.

[Youngblood]

To get a snug fit you need a suspension system that will hold the hammock snug against the bottom of the hammock, not just along the sides of the quilt but for the whole quilt. For the quilt to work well that way you need the proper shaping with the quilt so that it doesn't overly compress when it is held snug against the bottom of the hammock. Those are two distinct characteristics-- snug fitting and proper differential shaping. Do all of those have suspension systems that make them snug fitting over the whole quilt?

[BillyBob58]

To get a snug fit you need a suspension system that will hold the hammock snug against the bottom of the hammock, not just along the sides of the quilt but for the whole quilt. For the quilt to work well that way you need the proper shaping with the quilt so that it doesn't overly compress when it is held snug against the bottom of the hammock. Those are two distinct characteristics-- snug fitting and proper differential shaping. Do all of those have suspension systems that make them snug fitting over the whole quilt?

I don't know for sure. I can say that when I use the MWUQ on the JRB BMBH, as far as I can tell it is snug along the entire hammock wherever my body is in contact. It is warm head to toe, and so far on the sides also. I do use a "cheater" on the foot end- a pair of grip clips and some shock cord, on the theory that my heavy chest area might cause more sag on the head end relative to my feet, pulling the quilt too low under my legs resulting in a gap at my legs and feet, though not on the end where it is still "sealed", more or less.. But I'm not really certain this is even needed with the BMBH, and may well not be.

But the jury is still out about how perfect the fit is on end gathered hammocks like the BB. It has been more than adequate warmth so far, but adjustment ( on the foot end only, always snug under the torso) seems much more critical than on the BMBH, and I think my grip clips are definitely a help on the foot end with my BB. That is no big deal at all, but I suppose is not needed with the Speer Snugfit. If I get better at the MWUQ/gathered end adjustment, I might not need the grip clips. But it is awful easy to just use them and be done with it.

As for the WBCSUQ, it is only torso length so naturally won't fit snug over the entire hammock. But on end gathered hammocks ( at least on the Claytor NN and BB), it fits perfectly snug over it's intended fit area. At least if you are positioned correctly relative to the quilt, and have the shock cords pulled plenty tight. If it is 6" too high or too low, there will be gaps. But placed on a hammock of significantly different shape, like the BMBH, it will seal perfectly on the ends and sides, all the way around, yet have a gap right in the middle, hanging down from the spine.

So do they both fit perfectly snug along the entire intended contact area on the hammock? Well, sometimes, but it may vary with which quilt is used with which hammock and user experience/learning curve.

Do these fit as well as the Speer Snugfit does with most gathered end hammocks? Doing as good a job of staying snug everywhere needed? Unfortunately, I don't know as I have never had the pleasure of testing the Snugfit. If a certain sale had started about a week earlier last year, just before I paid full price for my PeaPod, I would no doubt have had a Snugfit by now, and I probably wouldn't have looked at anything else, from what I hear. ( But that's OK, my PeaPod has worked great on my Claytor even though it DOES NOT fit snug). I suspect the suspension of the Snugfit- and the shape- will allow it to fit snugly over more area, with less critical adjustments, than the other quilts. I'm only guessing about that, but I can say that- for me- the "snug" fit of the MWUQ on the BMBH is about perfect.

But, will the Snugfit work with and fit snugly full length the BMBH? There have been some comments about that, but I can't remember the answer.

[Shug]

My wish is there was a 0º SnugFit ... that would send shivers down my spine!! Actually it would send warmth down my spine but what a wish.......
Shug/Snug/Shrug/

[intheswim]

I'm trying to decide between the Speer SF and the JRB Nest aswell....:confused:
Here's a list of the specs for both...

Nest 78” x 48” // 21oz total // 11oz 800+ Down // 2.5" loft Current Sale price $254.95
SnugFit 79" x 45-50" // 29-32 oz // 12oz 900 Down // 2.5" - 2.0' loft
Current Sale price $271.00

From my reading i'm personally i'm leaning towards buying the Snug due to the fool proof design (less likely to have to adjust it due to cold spots). Also because i'm going to be using a Hennessy hammock so with the closed bug net I imagine I would have to get out to adjust the JRB nest if i got a cold spot. 900 down on the Snugfit is a bonus too. For a top quilt i think i'll get a No Sniveller with sleeves and hood.

If we assume the snug to weight in at 30 oz then thats a 9 ounce difference, but you get 1 extra ounce standard so really i'd say its a 8oz difference. From reviews people seem to say the SF is a little warmer so that plus the better fitting design helps overlook the extra weight. When i first learned about the JRB next the slit feature made it seem like a no brainer for people using Hennessy hammocks, but after doing a lot of reading folks seems to say that its not that much of a convenience feature, and that many people using Hennessy don't even use it.

I like the subdued colors more which would lead me to the snug again, but i found out that JRB is also now using a new subdued olive drab color so that point is no longer valid.

I'm also planning on asking ed if i can get a snugfit with both version's features (hook & loop + tabs) incase i want to get a speer hammock in the future.

[Mustardman]

IT seems to me a better comparison would be Snugfit vs. JRB Mt Washington. Similar prices, and both are cut in clever ways so you can yank them tight without too much fiddling.

[Take-a-knee]

IT seems to me a better comparison would be Snugfit vs. JRB Mt Washington. Similar prices, and both are cut in clever ways so you can yank them tight without too much fiddling.

Not much of a comparison warmthwise, I have a Nest, my next UQ will be a Mt. Washington.

[Mustardman]

Not much of a comparison warmthwise, I have a Nest, my next UQ will be a Mt. Washington.

That's been confusing me for a while - the weights of the mt. washington and snugfit are really similar, they seem to pack to similar sizes, yet the mt washington has way more loft and is rated warmer. I guess the difference is the way the quilt conforms to the hammock, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why the snugfit isn't way lighter than the mt washington.

[Take-a-knee]

That's been confusing me for a while - the weights of the mt. washington and snugfit are really similar, they seem to pack to similar sizes, yet the mt washington has way more loft and is rated warmer. I guess the difference is the way the quilt conforms to the hammock, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why the snugfit isn't way lighter than the mt washington.

The Snugfit isn't as warm because it is about half again larger than the Mt Washington.

[Mustardman]

The Snugfit isn't as warm because it is about half again larger than the Mt Washington.

OK, now I'm even MORE confused... the speer website says that the snugfit is 56" wide by 99" long (insulated area 45-50" x 79"), while the JRB website says the mt wash. is 77"x42". Now, if we're talking about serious contributors to the weight, shouldn't we be comparing the actual insulated areas? That's certainly not a 50% difference in area (3234 vs 3950 sq in.)

I guess I'm just surprised as how much of a difference that makes, but I guess if you combine that with the extra fabric needed to make the snugfit, with all the pleats and whatnot, it starts to make more sense.


I guess the real question then becomes, what benefits do you get from the extra coverage and complexity of the snugfit compared to the mt washington?

Sorry to keep asking so many questions, but these thoughts have been on my mind for a while now.

[Cannibal]

I guess the real question then becomes, what benefits do you get from the extra coverage and complexity of the snugfit compared to the mt washington?
I have a theory about that. While doing some cold weather testing recently, I decided to leave myself somewhat exposed to the wind. The SnugFit seemed to do a better job of keeping more heat contained during gusts. I'm not saying it didn't let a breeze thru, just that it seemed reduced compared to the other quilt I had. I can't swear that conditions were identical as I slept in one on one night and the other the next, but it honestly did seem that the SnugFit holds onto the warm a wee bit better in a breeze. Only thing I can figure is the difference in the baffling.:confused:

Testing will continue.:D

[Youngblood]

Some of the weight of the SnugFit compared to other underquilts is with its full width suspension system, some is with the additional coverage surface, and some is with the zero migration down fill.

The suspension system allows it to adjust to you and where you want to lay in a way that other suspension systems can't do because it is responsive along the full width of the underquilt. The additional coverage area combined with a suspension system that does not draw the ends of the quilt together, allows you to sleep more of where you choose to, especially on the diagonals. The zero migration down fill is a precise calculation to reduce down shifting when you don't want it to and the troubling cold spots that can cause-- it is comparable to a calculated over-fill and works particularly well for underquilts that are not laying flat but are suspended with slope that can allow down to shift easily.

[intheswim]

I was pretty set on getting the snugfit but i forgot about the Mt Washington... I think MustardMan is right in that the Mt Washington might be a better comparsion to the SnugFit. Shoot now i'm undecided again and the SnugFit sale ends in 3 days! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! :scared:

Its interesting to note that the Mt. Washington is 1 inch shorter lengthwise and 6 inches shorter width wise than the Nest. I wonder why...

Here's the specs for all 3 ...
Nest 78” x 48” // 21oz total // 11oz 800+ Down // 2.5" loft // Current Sale price $254.95
Mt Washington 77”x42" // 28oz total // 15oz 800 + Down // 4" loft Current // Sale price $299
SnugFit 79" x 45-50" // 29-32 oz // 12oz 900 Down // 2.5" - 2.0' loft // Current Sale price $271.00

[Mustardman]

suspension system that does not draw the ends of the quilt together, allows you to sleep more of where you choose to, especially on the diagonals.

This seems to me to be one of the key differences, going back and looking at both quilts again. I'm not sure whether it would make a big difference with me personally, but visually, now that it's been pointed out, it makes sense. Thanks for your insight.

[intheswim]

Speer SnugFit colors have changed.

New Colors are Dark Navy Blue // Kelty Green // Sliver/Gray
You can pick and choose between the above colors but you might have to wait for custom combinations. I believe the new stock color is Navy Blue on the outside and Kelty Green on the inside. Ed told me the new Dark Navy Blue color is darker then the old Forest Green. Good for Stealth 8)

[angrysparrow]

Speer SnugFit colors have changed.

New Colors are Dark Navy Blue // Kelty Green // Sliver/Gray
You can pick and choose between the above colors but you might have to wait for custom combinations. I believe the new stock color is Navy Blue on the outside and Kelty Green on the inside. Ed told me the new Dark Navy Blue color is darker then the old Forest Green. Good for Stealth 8)

I found out about that when I bought my SnugFit a few months ago. Ed accidentally sent me one of the Kelly green ones and I wound up exchanging it for the old green/gray combo. The dark blue might be fine, but that astonishingly bright green color is just awful.

[Peter_pan]

There is almost always at least two way around the barn...Let there be no confusion both the Speer "Snug fit" and the JRB Mt Washington are both differentially designed snug fitting under quilts....They have similiarities and they have differences.... Both are quickly hung and with little to no adjustment are properly fitted snug fitting under quilts.

The Mt Washington takes its zero degree capability from its design strong points.....Its dual differential design at 42 inches of interior width is designed to hug the user and contour the optimum user position in all known camping hammocks ... Its 60 plus inches of exterior width prvides constant loft outward from the body hugging inside... It uses a winter weight quantity of 15 oz of 800 pf down which results in a loft of 3.5-4 inches.

The light weight (28 oz) of the MT Washington is a result of design choices to insulate the user in the normal to optimum positions and not an entire bottom area...typically the sides above the areas actually occupied and the ends of a gathered end hammock that are not used unless providing for gear storage do not require insulation. Also it uses a light weight shock cord system that incorporates three suspension points on each end of gathered end hammocks and two points for bridge hammocks to ensure a gap free hang under the hammock.

Pan

[Youngblood]

Maybe I am missing something. I guess I can visualize an optimum user position for some hammocks where the user is encouraged or forced to lay in a specific location or orientation by width limitations, side pull outs, etc. But most conventional gathered end hammocks with 5 foot and wider beds allow for quite a range of positions and is one of the things that make them popular with many people-- the range of sleeping positions and the freedom to move from one position to another as desired. You can lay down the center, on a diagonal with your feet to the right, on a diagonal with your feet to the left, in a fetal position, etc. With those I think most all these underquilts limit the amount one can lay on a diagonal to some degree and some may limit the ability to lay in a fetal position. How much a particular underquilt limits this is dependent on the size and shape of the underquilt as well as how responsive the suspension system is. An underquilt simply cannot insulate areas that is doesn't cover and underquilts that cover more hammock area will be less restrictive in sleeping positions.

[Smee]

Maybe I am missing something. I guess I can visualize an optimum user position for some hammocks where the user is encouraged or forced to lay in a specific location or orientation by width limitations, side pull outs, etc. But most conventional gathered end hammocks with 5 foot and wider beds allow for quite a range of positions and is one of the things that make them popular with many people-- the range of sleeping positions and the freedom to move from one position to another as desired. You can lay down the center, on a diagonal with your feet to the right, on a diagonal with your feet to the left, in a fetal position, etc. With those I think most all these underquilts limit the amount one can lay on a diagonal to some degree and some may limit the ability to lay in a fetal position. How much a particular underquilt limits this is dependent on the size and shape of the underquilt as well as how responsive the suspension system is. An underquilt simply cannot insulate areas that is doesn't cover and underquilts that cover more hammock area will be less restrictive in sleeping positions.

AND THE MT WASHINGTON COVERS ALL THOSE POSITIONS!

REGARDS,

[Twilliger]

i am a bottom line guy and like real estate is about location, insulation is about loft, loft and more loft.

I went with the MWUQ and have loved it - I don't use a pad because i love the feel of the quilt wrapping around my underside and warming me up.
Radial design also made sense to me, seems it should minimize effect of compression.

I have no experience with other designs, but this was my choice.

I would also suggest a tarp with good coverage - I am using the speer winter tarp and love it, closes up really well.

I live in ottawa, canada and it is generally -10 to -15C overnight (i suck at C to F conversions but i think that is in single digits F).

[Peter_pan]

Although Backpacking Gear Test (BGT) does not do head up comparision testing they are by their claim the most comprhensive interactive gear reviews and tests in the planet...They are currently testing and reporting on the Mt Washington UQ.... You can find their independant test reports here http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Quilts%20and%20Blankets/Jacks%20R%20Better%20Mt%20Washington%20Underquilt/

Pan

[Mustardman]

So... how about making a 3-season mt washington? I like the "yank it tight and forget about it" adjustability, but don't need something rated to 0 degrees. Pretty please?

[DougTheElder]

We're lucky to have a choice between two extremely fine products: the SnugFit and the Mt. Washington. I have both and think they are exceptional products made by excellent folks. My advice is to just take a chance, live on the edge, take a shot in the dark- just get one. The only bad decision is to not buy one or the other, or both. If there is any concern about either not being long enough, wide enough, or usable in enough sleeping positions, I'll say, at the risk of beating a dead horse, that one of JRB's wide quilts (like the Katahdin), will fill in any spaces where a little extra fluff may be needed.

[Thrasher]

I'm waiting on 2 Mt. Washington quilts to come in the mail. One for me and one for the wife! :D

[intheswim]

So... how about making a 3-season mt washington? I like the "yank it tight and forget about it" adjustability, but don't need something rated to 0 degrees. Pretty please?

I 2nd that idea. 8)

[DougTheElder]

I'm waiting on 2 Mt. Washington quilts to come in the mail. One for me and one for the wife! :D

Dang!!! You know how to treat a woman right!!!

[Thrasher]

Dang!!! You know how to treat a woman right!!!

They just came in the mail! Time to try it out, my wife says she wants to take a nap in the hammock anyways.

[Cannibal]

So... how about making a 3-season mt washington? I like the "yank it tight and forget about it" adjustability, but don't need something rated to 0 degrees. Pretty please?
From the Jacks' website (http://www.jacksrbetter.com/What%27s%20New.htm):
"There will be a three season model of the Mt Washington family of quilts. We expect it to début at Trail Days in Damascus Virginia, mid May."

[Peter_pan]

From the Jacks' website (http://www.jacksrbetter.com/What%27s%20New.htm):
"There will be a three season model of the Mt Washington family of quilts. We expect it to début at Trail Days in Damascus Virginia, mid May."


WOW.... Didn't think anyone was reading the Way Point and Azmuth articles....Hope to see those of you interested in the MT Washinton-3 at TD....;)

Pan

[angrysparrow]

I thought this was also worth noting -


Finally, JRB has obtained a large volume, assured source for a new outer shell color of quilt material. Same great 1.1 oz DWR rip stop nylon … just a new subdued color … a near return to the original olive color.

[Cannibal]

WOW.... Didn't think anyone was reading the Way Point and Azmuth articles....Hope to see those of you interested in the MT Washinton-3 at TD....;)

Pan
Oh yeah, I read it. The trick is remembering it.:o:D

[Peter_pan]

Oh yeah, I read it. The trick is remembering it.:o:D

Remember what?

Pan

[Mustardman]

WOW.... Didn't think anyone was reading the Way Point and Azmuth articles....Hope to see those of you interested in the MT Washinton-3 at TD....;)

Pan

I doubt I'll be able to make it to Trail Days... any chance I can get a sneak peak at the prototype????? I'll buy it without knowing anything about it advance, for a chance to be the first on the block with some differential cut 3-season goodness :boggle:

[Peter_pan]

I doubt I'll be able to make it to Trail Days... any chance I can get a sneak peak at the prototype????? I'll buy it without knowing anything about it advance, for a chance to be the first on the block with some differential cut 3-season goodness :boggle:

Mustardman,

The Mt Washington -3 probably will not be available much before Trail Days.....Best to keep an eye on the JRB site in early May....;)

Pan