Question for pad users

[BillyBob58]

During some of my seemingly endless experimentation, I have been trying out my Speer SPE and some pads. I have had this as a backup for over a year, but have never really used it. Last year on my Olympic mountain trip, at the last minute I nearly ditched my SuperShelter in favor of just the SPE and pads. On the theory that I was going to carry at least a minimal pad anyway in case I had to go to ground. So in a last-minute fit of ounce saving, I thought "well why don't I just take pads only?". Saving the weight of the SuperShelter. But at the last minute, after trying to compare things in the hot Mississippi August Sun, I decided there was still too much comfort in favor of the SuperShelter versus just pads. So I took both.

But lately I've been playing with the SPE some more, mainly because I've been using my top loading Speer hammock while testing the Peapod. So it just seemed an easy matter to drop the SPE and pad into the Speer and sit down on top of it, and then lie down. Then I decided to go ahead and try it without the Peapod, using various thickness of pads. It works pretty good. And it is easier to manage than with my bottom loading Hennessy hammock, although it seems more user friendly than I remembered from last summer even in the Hennessy. And so far anyway, I just don't seem to have any sweat issues. And after further experimentation, it really seems pretty comfortable -- just not that much of a change from the hammock by itself. As long as you don't count a bit of inconvenience from trying to get positioned on the pad in the first place, especially when using the Hennessy. But all of that seems to be improving with practice anyway. As for the comfort level, I'm wondering what I thought was the big difference last year when I decided I wouldn't be happy with the pads by themselves. Maybe it had something to do with how darn hot it was. I don't know, it just seems as though the difference is not as great as I thought it was at that time.

I did a little testing recently, for short periods of time. With a Ridgerest only, I would say that it was just barely okay at 32°. So if I had been out overnight for a full eight hours, it might have proved a little inadequate at that temperature. But that would match Speers "some observed temperatures with close cell pads", where I believe he has a 5/8" pad listed at 37°. But I've also read from other people that a 5/8" pad like a Ridgerest might not be quite as warm as a 5/8" pad that does not have the ridges in it. Anyway, it looks like it will be fine for me in the mid 30s, and maybe okay at 32°. Probably not okay below that temperature, at least not for a long night. But of course that's not a problem, because I think I remember last winter I did 18° with the same Ridgerest plus a Thermarest UltraLite 1-inch thick three-quarter length all inside the SPE. And I remember being very warm under those conditions, but I need to look up my test on that combo.

But here's my question. Though we are all aware of the many ways in which a pad decreases comfort in a hammock for a lot of people, is it possible that the pad actually increases comfort in some ways? I just wondered what the frequent pad users thought regarding this question. For one thing, the pad seems to give me somewhat of a flatter sleeping surface. And the pad inside the SPE with the wings pushing outward on the Hennessy sides gives me a sensation of more openness inside the hammock, solving any net related problems. And it seems to me that whether in the Hennessy or in the Speer, I am actually able to lie on my side a little better than without the pads. I'm assuming this is because of the aforementioned "flatter sleeping surface" -- or so it seems. I wouldn't say it was a big difference, but the difference seems to be there.

Has anybody else noticed anything like this, or am I just hallucinating again?

[BillyBob58]

PS:

Re: being warm at 32° with just the Ridgerest, and side comfort. I did notice that when I turned on my side, I quickly noticed a small cold spot on my hip at the lowest point. I suppose this would be because I had the same amount of body weight at the low point, but now with the thinner profile- that is, less body width resting on the pad compared to being on my back, I now had more pounds per square inch pressing on the pad? Therefore managing to compress it a bit more, allowing the cold to be felt through the pad?

Whatever the cause, the cold spot went away as soon as I went back on my back. It was not so bad that I would not have been able to put up with it for a while, mainly because it was in such a small spot. But it might have become more of an issue with a slightly thinner pad. Also, someone who always sleeps on their side might have more of a problem as the night wears on. So it might be that dedicated side sleepers need a bit more pad.

[Youngblood]

Bill,

I found that the type of pad and the thickness of closed cell pads have an effect on comfort. I thought the Ridgerest was the most comfortable closed cell foam pad to have against my back when I have thick pads or a stack of pads and when I stacked ccf pads that was the one I put on top. Inflated pads might be more comfortable than just the hammock since they add cushioning. But, you do have to get on them and stay on them. If you squirm or move around you have deal with staying on them.

These ccf pads are vapor barriers unless you perforate them so you have to deal with insensible and sensible perspiration more carefully than you have to with breathable insulation. I've always felt that you prefer more breathability in your insulation in still air where you are close to overheating with the amount of insulation you have and that you prefer less breathability in your insulation in moving air where you are close to getting chilled with the amount of insulation you have. Hopefully we are usually somewhere between those two extremes and then it approaches six of one versus half a dozen of the other.

[Bug-Bait]

Will an Exped Dam work with the SPE or is it too thick?

[fin]

I think everyone experiments with pads and cold, and everyone has different results with comfort. In warm weather, I will use a light closed cell pad or a piece of "memory foam" inside my Clark NA to "push out the sides" near my head and for extra comfort. I do like the feeling of a little more space. But in cold weather, what I have been doing is stringing a second hammock below my Clark, and putting my pad in the lower hammock to create an air pocket below my body. I'm using an 1/8" closed cell pad with reflective material laminated onto it, which has been working great! I have also thrown a wool blanket in the lower hammock to increase the vapor barrier thickness. But if I put a pad in the hammock with me in cold temperature, I get a lot of condensation on either my bag or the pad, and I haven't found a good solution to that yet. If I leave the pad in the lower level hammock, the condensation occurs on the lower hammock or pad, which leaves me high and dry in my upper level. I still get a lot of condensation on the inside of the weather shield above me, but I'm working on a solution for that as well.

[pisgahfan]

I use my Mountain Hardwear Superlite Pad all year. I enjoy the comfort of having a pad in the Clark NA with me. I've never really noticed any condensation issues from sleeping this way. The pad helps spread the hammock out which is nice for a big guy like myself. The extra insulation of having a pad in the hammock with me has allowed me to sleep comfortably in single digit temps w/ a 0 deg bag and a good set of base layers. One added bonus is the Mountain Hardwear pad converts to a camp chair w/ 2 small aluminum poles. It's like the swiss army knife of sleeping pads.

[neo]

During some of my seemingly endless experimentation, I have been trying out my Speer SPE and some pads. I have had this as a backup for over a year, but have never really used it. Last year on my Olympic mountain trip, at the last minute I nearly ditched my SuperShelter in favor of just the SPE and pads. On the theory that I was going to carry at least a minimal pad anyway in case I had to go to ground. So in a last-minute fit of ounce saving, I thought "well why don't I just take pads only?". Saving the weight of the SuperShelter. But at the last minute, after trying to compare things in the hot Mississippi August Sun, I decided there was still too much comfort in favor of the SuperShelter versus just pads. So I took both.

But lately I've been playing with the SPE some more, mainly because I've been using my top loading Speer hammock while testing the Peapod. So it just seemed an easy matter to drop the SPE and pad into the Speer and sit down on top of it, and then lie down. Then I decided to go ahead and try it without the Peapod, using various thickness of pads. It works pretty good. And it is easier to manage than with my bottom loading Hennessy hammock, although it seems more user friendly than I remembered from last summer even in the Hennessy. And so far anyway, I just don't seem to have any sweat issues. And after further experimentation, it really seems pretty comfortable -- just not that much of a change from the hammock by itself. As long as you don't count a bit of inconvenience from trying to get positioned on the pad in the first place, especially when using the Hennessy. But all of that seems to be improving with practice anyway. As for the comfort level, I'm wondering what I thought was the big difference last year when I decided I wouldn't be happy with the pads by themselves. Maybe it had something to do with how darn hot it was. I don't know, it just seems as though the difference is not as great as I thought it was at that time.

I did a little testing recently, for short periods of time. With a Ridgerest only, I would say that it was just barely okay at 32°. So if I had been out overnight for a full eight hours, it might have proved a little inadequate at that temperature. But that would match Speers "some observed temperatures with close cell pads", where I believe he has a 5/8" pad listed at 37°. But I've also read from other people that a 5/8" pad like a Ridgerest might not be quite as warm as a 5/8" pad that does not have the ridges in it. Anyway, it looks like it will be fine for me in the mid 30s, and maybe okay at 32°. Probably not okay below that temperature, at least not for a long night. But of course that's not a problem, because I think I remember last winter I did 18° with the same Ridgerest plus a Thermarest UltraLite 1-inch thick three-quarter length all inside the SPE. And I remember being very warm under those conditions, but I need to look up my test on that combo.

But here's my question. Though we are all aware of the many ways in which a pad decreases comfort in a hammock for a lot of people, is it possible that the pad actually increases comfort in some ways? I just wondered what the frequent pad users thought regarding this question. For one thing, the pad seems to give me somewhat of a flatter sleeping surface. And the pad inside the SPE with the wings pushing outward on the Hennessy sides gives me a sensation of more openness inside the hammock, solving any net related problems. And it seems to me that whether in the Hennessy or in the Speer, I am actually able to lie on my side a little better than without the pads. I'm assuming this is because of the aforementioned "flatter sleeping surface" -- or so it seems. I wouldn't say it was a big difference, but the difference seems to be there.

Has anybody else noticed anything like this, or am I just hallucinating again?

i had a SPE never used it,i gave it to peanuts,for me i been down to 8.6 degrees with a 3/8 pad,i have a modified layered pad for going lower.it doubles as a frame for my frameless pack.i cant even tell i am sleeping on a pad in my claytor jungle hammock.:cool: neo


http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=2515&c=6


http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=2519&c=6


http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=2518&c=6

[fin]

But if I put a pad in the hammock with me in cold temperature, I get a lot of condensation on either my bag or the pad,

I think this is because of the pad I use with the laminated reflective material - it's like a space blanket laminated to a 1/4 piece of rubbery closed cell foam. It's a piece 48 x 68 that I purchased from American Science and Surplus for $5, and trimmed to fit. I should try the Mountain Hardware SuperLite - I like the idea that it converts to a chair. But you can't beat the price that I paid for this pad, and for the results I have had with it. :)

[Take-a-knee]

All I can add is I've had good luck with my two 1/4in Oware pads, they are trimmed to SGT Rock's demensions and they work great for me. I think high twenties have been my lower limit with them. I look forward to trying an SPE with a thermarest, I had no luck staying on a thermarest by itself.

With a Hennessy (again, my only experience) getting your pad positioned to lie diagonally before you sit down on it is half the battle.

[BillyBob58]

Thanks for the info, guys. But, what I'm really trying to get opinions on: Do any of you think that the pad might actually increase comfort in some few ways, compared to no pad? When I say comfort, I don't mean temp, but just how the hammock feels?

Now, again, we all know that many folks think the pads decrease, or even ruin, the inherent comfort of the hammock, going buy their personal experiences. But, having noticed recently that, with the pad in both my Speer and my HH hammocks, I seem to have a flatter overall sleeping platform. And, it may even help just a bit with fetal position comfort, due to the extra flat floor. It sure doesn't hurt. And like Pisgahfan said, it also helps to spread the hammock out, opening things up.

This has surprised me, since the general consensus seems to be that, yes, pads will sure keep you warm, but at the cost of other ( non-warmth related) types of comfort. And that may well be the case, overall. But, I'm starting to think that in at least a couple of areas, the pads may actually increase comfort a bit.

[neo]

All I can add is I've had good luck with my two 1/4in Oware pads, they are trimmed to SGT Rock's demensions and they work great for me. I think high twenties have been my lower limit with them. I look forward to trying an SPE with a thermarest, I had no luck staying on a thermarest by itself.

With a Hennessy (again, my only experience) getting your pad positioned to lie diagonally before you sit down on it is half the battle.

:D in a claytor hammmock there are no pad issue's that are associtaed with other hammocks:cool: neo

[BillyBob58]

:D in a claytor hammmock there are no pad issue's that are associtaed with other hammocks:cool: neo

Neo, do you have that no net Claytor yet? How's that working out? Is it just like your other Claytor except without the net? Same exact comfort?

[DougTheElder]

I think we're finding out just how slow a slow boat from China really is!!!!

[FanaticFringer]

My JRB bridge with the pad pocket is about equally comfortable with or without a pad. Might be even more comfy with the pad. Being straight and flat.

[Walking Bear]

I have tried inserting a self inflating thermorest into my DIY double layer bridge hammock. It helped make it softer and a little wider at the shoulders because it lifted me up some. Problem is that I was wanting to get rid of the weight of the thermorest and keep it out of the pack. I need to figure out lighter bottom insulation.

[pisgahfan]

The clark is comfortable w/out the pad (temp not being the issue). But the pad I use makes the hammock more comfortable. I too have read the threads where people have complained about pads bunching up and being uncomfortable, but I don't have those problems even when I was using a HH. So I guess my answer is yes, for me, a pad is more comfortable than just the hammock alone.

[Shug]

Hey BillyBob.....
So far, I have never slept in my diy hammock without a pad. I have used thermarest inflatable alone with most air out and was warm and comfortable. Used a GG thin pad alone, very warm bit a bit sticky in the hammock. Super warm pad though. Not much of a problem with moisture. I love my diy SPE with wings at shoulders and thighs and empty pockets between that I stuff with spare clothes and such.
To answer your query, in my experience I feel more comfortable with a pad and spe. When the MN weather here turns warmer I think I will try without a pad and see what I may be missing. This winter I slept out in -12º with a cc pad and Big Agnes insulated mat in an SPE and a thick down DIY UQ. I was not cold at all underneath! Wonder if it was over kill using all that? Would only one pad and UQ work and if so, which pad?.... UQ only???
Further testing will be done because it just fun anyway you cut it. Grown ups need something to excite them to face the day or night in most of our cases.
Shug

[greggg3]

As far as just comfort, not warmth, then I have to say NO, the pad/pads/SPE absolutely does nothing to make it more comfortable. Bare hammock is the most comfortable for me, whether its an HH or ENO. And homemade attempts, tell me that longer and wider are more comfortable still.

But-the pads seem to be the best warmth/weight ratio and ccf is bulletproof and you can always go to ground if you have one. So I"m waiting on my no net on the slo-boat which neo says should make it feel like there's not even a pad there.

[Youngblood]

Will an Exped Dam work with the SPE or is it too thick?

The 7 cm thick ones fit. The 9 cm thick ones might be too thick, I've never tried those. At 3.5 inches, they are a tad larger than the 3 inch thickness the SPE's were designed for.

[slowhike]

Thanks for the info, guys. But, what I'm really trying to get opinions on: Do any of you think that the pad might actually increase comfort in some few ways, compared to no pad? When I say comfort, I don't mean temp, but just how the hammock feels?

Now, again, we all know that many folks think the pads decrease, or even ruin, the inherent comfort of the hammock, going buy their personal experiences. But, having noticed recently that, with the pad in both my Speer and my HH hammocks, I seem to have a flatter overall sleeping platform. And, it may even help just a bit with fetal position comfort, due to the extra flat floor. It sure doesn't hurt. And like Pisgahfan said, it also helps to spread the hammock out, opening things up.

This has surprised me, since the general consensus seems to be that, yes, pads will sure keep you warm, but at the cost of other ( non-warmth related) types of comfort. And that may well be the case, overall. But, I'm starting to think that in at least a couple of areas, the pads may actually increase comfort a bit.

when you say "pads" are you mainly referring to ccf pads or air mats also?
as you probably already know, i use one of several insulated air mats (BA, exped, warmlight). i've spent almost all my nights on one (in hammock of course) for almost 3 years now.

i tried the ccf a time or two but quickly turned back to a insulated air mat.
and yes, it does provide a more open feel.
when my arms or legs extend beyond the edges of the mat, they touch or press against the hammock walls, but i am still laying on a flat, soft, platform.

[neo]

Neo, do you have that no net Claytor yet? How's that working out? Is it just like your other Claytor except without the net? Same exact comfort?

i will get mine tommorrow:cool: neo

[BillyBob58]

Thanks for the responses. And I am surprised to find that there are actually a few others that feel the pad actually contributes to comfort, at least in some ways. Which is not to say that, overall, things might be more comfy without the pads, even if some areas are improved, like flatter surface and a more open hammock.

Now I am wanting to try one of the DAMs. Slowhike, probably nobody has as much long term experience with DAM in a hammock as you do. Have you had any trouble with the failres of the air mattress? Maybe due to unique stresses caused by the hammock?

[froldt]

I'm also glad to hear that some people find that pads contribute to comfort. As a currently financially-handicapped individual, I am going to have to utilize what I currently have, such as my RidgeRest for insulation on the bottom of my hammock.

[slowhike]

Now I am wanting to try one of the DAMs. Slowhike, probably nobody has as much long term experience with DAM in a hammock as you do. Have you had any trouble with the failres of the air mattress? Maybe due to unique stresses caused by the hammock?

the one i've used most at home is the BA.
i had problems (as did a lot of others) w/ the BA insulated air core developing leaks... usually a slow leak but sometimes a fast enough leak that you would be flat before morn.
BA said they had run into problems w/ curtain fabrics & switched. they also replaced 2 BA mats for me.
the last has done much better but recently it has developed another slow leak, but it's slow enough that not to be a problem through a night.
i need to put it in the bath tub w/ water to see where the leak is. hopefully it wont be on a seam & i can patch it w/ no problem.

the warmlight i haven't spent much time on.

my favorite for cool/cold weather is the exped DAM 7 (full length).
i did run into a problem w/ a valve one cold night but it seams to be an isolated case.
here's the story...
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=612

i've also used it at home some & seen no other issues w/ leaks.

[Fiddleback]

BillyBob58 --

This is a great thread you've started. I've often wondered about the frequent posts that call pads uncomfortable relative to underquilts and other hammock accouterments. But my experience is limited...I've only hung in a Hennessy and only used the older model, 3/8" Oware pad. From the start, I was ecstatic about the change in comfort that resulted from getting off the ground and was surprised when I saw negative comparisons with other methods/systems.

Hammock comfort during cool nights is a hugely individual thing greatly affected by the specific location, climate, weather systems, etc. But in combination with the rest of the sleep system, the Oware keeps me comfortable into the mid-20s which accommodates my shortened three-season backpacking in my home area. Given that and the smile-inducing comfort, I've not had any motivation to change.

And one other thing gives me no motivation to change...the older, heavier Oware pad weighs 7oz.:) In other words, the pad is pretty comfortable on by back as well as under it.:D

FB

[Miguel]

I for one have found the Thermarest self inflatable air mattress with just a little air in it to be the most comfortable. It's way too stiff if inflated too much. In fact in warmer weather I've simply left the air valve open. At times without the mattress, I've actually felt what can only be described as an uneven tightness in the fabric of the hammock which I have found to be slightly uncomfortable and annoying. I suspect it was the degree or lack of, sag I had created. In any event, I've never had that feeling when the Thermarest was inserted.

I'll be able to tell you better in a few days as we just completed making my first underquilt and will be using it a few times this coming week. I'm switching over to the quilt because of condensation issues and buckling of the side wings. I liked the Thermarest but it leaves your shoulders too exposed. Plus it's heavy to carry. I've also experienced far less condensation with the Thermarest than with regular closed cell pads. I can only attribute that to the nylon coating on the Thermarest.

I have used my new synthetic underquilt one night in sub freezing temps and was quite impressed with it. I've also been using a twenty plus year old 20deg bag that has been lived it's entire life IN the stuff bag. I'm in the market for a new one. I'll check back to this thread next week and give you my thoughts as I've been using every pad configuration known to man since my beginning but I'm very hopeful about my underquilt.

Miguel

[BillyBob58]

Great feedback, every one!

Fiddleback, apparently you do not suffer from sweaty back syndrome. And you must be a bit like Neo. If your comfy to mid 20s with only a 3/8" pad. Read above about how my impression is that 32* was my absolute limit with a 5/8". HOWEVER, again, that was a Ridgerest with the open ridges, which according to Younblood's writings, probably won't be as warm in a hammock as a regular CCF pad of equal thickness.
( http://www.hammockcamping.com/Free%20Reports/DWombleFoamPads.htm ) Then again, you are also from MONTANA! As opposed to wimpy me who resides in Mississippi!

I'm glad to hear there are a fair number of others who find that, even if pads suck in many ways, they actually improve- at least slightly- things in other areas. It seemed apparent to me that, despite the PIA of getting on one ( especially with the HH though it gets much better with practice- ) and the possible decrease in comfort in some areas - according to many folks - that I had a flatter surface beneath me with both the Speer and HH . However, I'm still not certain of this with the HH, because at the same time I took the SS off. When I later tried this without the SS, but no pad, I also found that I seemed to be able to get flatter as well as do better on my side. Like so many have said before, the SS does interfere with the normal characteristics/geometry of the HH. But it ( the pad ) surely opens things up. And there was no SS to interfere with my Speer, and it also seemed a bit flatter with the pad.

I love my PeaPod, and think pretty highly of my SS. But like I've said here before, those that can be happy with a pad are the lucky ones. If you don't have sweat problems, if you don't have trouble staying on one, IF you don't think it ruins the hammock's comfort, and IF the bulk is not too much hassle- then how can you NOT choose the pad? ( I realize there are quite a few who do not fit the above categories) If you are in the above group, how can you not choose dirt cheap, bombproof ( especially CCF ), windproof, waterproof, probably lightest, and all set for ground use (With or without a ground cloth in the case of CCF)?

That's a long list of positives to argue with IF the potential negatives don't apply to you, or minimally apply. But I also think of my friend from Asheville, NC, who sold me on the PeaPod. He saw my back up SPE on the hike last Sept. He thought it looked great and bought one as soon as he got home. He couldn't stand it and ended up taking it back and getting a 50* PeaPod, which he quickly fell in love with. Apparently, even in a hammock, he thrashes wildly in his sleep. Also, I think he was in a sleeping bag, which made it harder to stabilize the pad with his hands when he would turn over. So he would continually wake up to find he was off of the pad and cold. The irony is, he is still using the pad! To sleep at below 30* in the 50* PeaPod, he said he just put the pad UNDER the hammock, supported by the PeaPod. If he does manage to slip partially off of the pad, it's super easy to just reach under the hammock and slip it back into position. He is real happy using a pad that way, and stays plenty warm.

[rasputen]

I use ccf pads and find them quiet comfy in many of the same ways described above! In my HH they allow me to lay flatter and help to spread out the hammock for less shoulder squeeze. I like them even more in my Speer as it has more shoulder squeeze then my HH's. I will say that I only use them in the fall and winter. It's way too hot in the summer...

I use my poncho liner only in the summer(inside hammock). I attach shock cord to the ends of the poncho liner and tie the ends off to the whipping area. This allows the poncho liner to move with me and if I feel a little cool I simply pull the sides over me.

The ccf pads are light weight and I like them better then my self inflating pad.
I use a full pad and a half pad in the winter. I use a BA +20 bag and with the poncho liner and 2 ccf pads(1 full length and a half length) I slept warm this winter down to 12 and 13 degrees! It is a little of a PIA to "occasionally" make sure the pad is under me but since they are in the BA sleeve it's not enough of an issue to warrent throwing the system out. Works for me....

[Bug-Bait]

The 7 cm thick ones fit. The 9 cm thick ones might be too thick, I've never tried those. At 3.5 inches, they are a tad larger than the 3 inch thickness the SPE's were designed for.

Thanks for the info, Dave!!
MQ

[rigidpsycho]

I've made it down to 30* with a 3/4 thermarest, a windshield reflector, and a 20* synthetic bag without a tarp. I like the pads, but then again I have never tried an underquilt either.

[hall312]

Rigidpsycho,

That is the same exact setup I use and went to 30* last night. My bag is cut open to a quilt.

[rigidpsycho]

Hall312, welcome to the forums. I still use my bag as a bag. I now have a 20"x72"x1" inflatable I got from Target. Hopefully gone try it out for the first time this weekend.

[Rat]

I am a pad user again. I have been back and forth a couple of times now, and I am back to sleeping on pads. I just think that for the weight, price and adaptability they can't be beat.

SO, do I think they offer any comfort to the hammocker other than these? No.

Don't get me wrong, they are extremely comfortable and about a 100 times better than the ground. But there is nother sweeter than sleeping in my hammock on a perfect 75* day with nothing but my cargo shorts between me and my hammock.

The benefits mentioned above are things that don't bother me anyway; like holding the fabric away from my face, spreading the hammock body out, etcetera. These do not bother me and I am not more comfortable one way or the other.

So I guess, while I am a pad user, I don't think they contribute to the comfort of my hammocking other than when needed as light, cheap, multi-use insulation.

[BillyBob58]

I am a pad user again. I have been back and forth a couple of times now, and I am back to sleeping on pads. I just think that for the weight, price and adaptability they can't be beat.

SO, do I think they offer any comfort to the hammocker other than these? No.

Don't get me wrong, they are extremely comfortable and about a 100 times better than the ground. But there is nother sweeter than sleeping in my hammock on a perfect 75* day with nothing but my cargo shorts between me and my hammock.

The benefits mentioned above are things that don't bother me anyway; like holding the fabric away from my face, spreading the hammock body out, etcetera. These do not bother me and I am not more comfortable one way or the other.

So I guess, while I am a pad user, I don't think they contribute to the comfort of my hammocking other than when needed as light, cheap, multi-use insulation.

Thanks for the opinion, HogN8er. So far, still using your round turn and a couple of half hitches when I use my Speer( that is your recommendation, aint it?). Works great every time, plus quick and simple.

[Grinder]

I am a pad boy too. I use a two layer hammock.

My system is patterned an Sgt Rocks guidance, picked and chosen from his site, "Hiking Headquarters" .

I use a Gearskin clone (homemade) for my pack. It requires a pad , which acts as the frame.
Rock also recommended carrying a sit pad on the outside of the pack for mid day meals and breaks.

In his site, he devoted quite a bit of discussion to cold weather systems. In one place he developed a dual, criss crossed, pad arrangement.

I now insert my full pad between the two layers, on the diagonal. I then insert the sit pad crossways ,about covering the space from shoulder to hip with two layers of pad, when you consider the angle.

I also used a homemade SPE type on the inside of the hammock (before going double layer, I think). I didn't like the SPE. The ears would not stay put. I had to spend too much time getting them into position.

Living in Florida, I don't see much real cold. I have been comfortable down to upper thirties.

[Rat]

Thanks for the opinion, HogN8er. So far, still using your round turn and a couple of half hitches when I use my Speer( that is your recommendation, aint it?). Works great every time, plus quick and simple.


Your welcome, and yes I am still using the four-wrap knot. However, I have built, and used twice now, a ring-buckle system that I am liking very nicely. It is easier to use when big trees are around, the added weight tho...well, the jury is still out.

[Take-a-knee]

I am a pad boy too. I use a two layer hammock.

My system is patterned an Sgt Rocks guidance, picked and chosen from his site, "Hiking Headquarters" .

I use a Gearskin clone (homemade) for my pack. It requires a pad , which acts as the frame.
Rock also recommended carrying a sit pad on the outside of the pack for mid day meals and breaks.

In his site, he devoted quite a bit of discussion to cold weather systems. In one place he developed a dual, criss crossed, pad arrangement.

I now insert my full pad between the two layers, on the diagonal. I then insert the sit pad crossways ,about covering the space from shoulder to hip with two layers of pad, when you consider the angle.

I also used a homemade SPE type on the inside of the hammock (before going double layer, I think). I didn't like the SPE. The ears would not stay put. I had to spend too much time getting them into position.

Living in Florida, I don't see much real cold. I have been comfortable down to upper thirties.

This thread convinced me to buy an SPE, my first impressions are very positive. I found it very comfortable.

[rigidpsycho]

I'm gonna probably make an SPE here soon to use with my self inflating pad I got for Xmas.

[photomankc]

In my own (very limited) experiance, I found my Clark to be more comfortable with my 26" wide DAM than without. It opens the hammock out more, lets me lay flatter and keeps the sides from pressing in when I'm on my side. I like it enough that I'll eat the weight penalty till it becomes too hot for overnight lows.

[slowhike]

In my own (very limited) experiance, I found my Clark to be more comfortable with my 26" wide DAM than without. It opens the hammock out more, lets me lay flatter and keeps the sides from pressing in when I'm on my side. I like it enough that I'll eat the weight penalty till it becomes too hot for overnight lows.

i'm right w/ you on that.

[mataharihiker]

I am not only more comfortable using a sleeping pad in a hammock, I find it almost impossible to sleep comfortably without one.

1) I'm a side sleeper who is somewhat claustrophobic...I hate feeling netting on my face or hammock material wrapped around my head...I tried, really tried, over many years to NOT use a pad but I just don't sleep well without one...

2) I am a cold sleeper...the only way I am warm enough on the bottom without a sleeping pad is when it's too warm for me to sleep in a hammock...like when we have 80-90F degree nights...

3) I have a childhood paranoia of things attacking me from below...pad solves that...

4) I now use an Exped downmat 7 long in colder weather and the short in warmer weather...more comfortable when it's warmer than my old Thermarest was...

We all have different comfort levels...if you can get away without a pad, more power to ya...I wish I could...who wants to lug around that extra weight!

[BillyBob58]

Wow, MH, that is the most "pro-pad" comment I have yet seen! Like you say, every one is different. Though I have found one or two ways in which pads actually seemed to increase my comfort levels, I still lean towards the "overall more comfy without" end of the spectrum.

But opposite of you, I have thought of the pad users as being the lucky ones, if they can be comfortable. You mention the extra weight, but what about the weight of UQs, and then some folks seem to struggle at 30* even then. And you don't have to worry about water vs. down, nor do you have to worry about going to ground ( :eek: ), you are all set. Now some may not ever hike any place where having to go to ground is even a remote possibility. But for those who do, if they don't carry a pad in addition to their UQ, they are in a royal mess if they should be forced to ground. But not you, you are good to go either way!

The places I go, even though I have seldom been forced to ground, I can't imagine being brave enough to go without a pad. Actually, so far on my trips 15-20 miles (or more) into wilderness areas out west, I have been on the ground 2 nights out of 12. And one of those was first night ever in a hammock when I was freezing, that's not likely to happen again, though possible. So that would still be one out of 12. But that one night would have been horrendous with out a pad. I mean, really, can you imagine spending a night on uneven or rocky ground above timberline, or below where the roots are, with out a pad?

So it is well worth the extra bulk/weight for me. But I sleep great in my SS or PeaPod without a pad, so for me it is only extra weight/bulk as back up for ground use. But for you, it is not "extra", it is just "instead of" the weight and expense of a down UQ or it's equivalent.

And though I do great, even in extreme cold, in my PeaPod or SS, the ease of pad use in the Claytor No Net has me rethinking a pad only approach for when I am doing long trips at high altitude. Because, since I am going to carry a pad anyway as backup, a pad only approach is definitely the lighter approach, and also more bomb proof, with no worries about moisture. We will see what I actually decide next September! :rolleyes: Last year I was about to make the same pad/spe only decision, but at the last minute went back to my SS with pad as backup. But, that is because I decided a pad/spe in my HH was just not as comfortable as my SS. But, the comfort level dif is not nearly as great when I am using a pad with the Claytor.

[nickelanddime]

But opposite of you, I have thought of the pad users as being the lucky ones, if they can be comfortable. You mention the extra weight, but what about the weight of UQs, and then some folks seem to struggle at 30* even then. And you don't have to worry about water vs. down, nor do you have to worry about going to ground ( ), you are all set. Now some may not ever hike any place where having to go to ground is even a remote possibility. But for those who do, if they don't carry a pad in addition to their UQ, they are in a royal mess if they should be forced to ground. But not you, you are good to go either way!


That pretty much sums up what I think... I suppose you could gather duff into a heap to sleep on, but who really wants to do that if they don't have to?

[slowhike]

i'm pretty much in line w/ what maraharihiker said... i just don't sleep as well w/o a air mat.
i've experimented (again recently) w/o a mat because it would be nice to not have to inflate & un-inflate it each night on the trail, but it's like a little slice of Heaven getting back on the air mat.
the tightly stretched hammock is just a little to firm for once broken ribs, etc<G>.

ccf just doesn't do it for me & a thermarest isn't much better. the thicker, insulated air mats are the ticket.

[mataharihiker]

Wow, BillyBob58....I never thought about the necessity of carrying a pad in case you had to camp in a place without trees...I now feel better about lugging around my pad:D

[GREEN THERAPY]

I started out using a Wal Mart pad in a SPE in my hammock and found it to be less comfortable than without it. Since then I have modified my sleeping bag so the hammock strings through it and now use the pad on cold nites underneath between the sleeping bag and the underside of the hammock. The first few times I tried it I was conceerned if condensation would be an issue but so far it has not. The pad has slits cut in it to allow for folding as part of the frame for my G4 pack so on hikes I always have it with me. Have not had to go to ground yet but would have it if needed. Not sure if the slits have anything to do with no condensation or not but may contribute to none.

[BillyBob58]

I started out using a Wal Mart pad in a SPE in my hammock and found it to be less comfortable than without it. Since then I have modified my sleeping bag so the hammock strings through it and now use the pad on cold nites underneath between the sleeping bag and the underside of the hammock. The first few times I tried it I was conceerned if condensation would be an issue but so far it has not. The pad has slits cut in it to allow for folding as part of the frame for my G4 pack so on hikes I always have it with me. Have not had to go to ground yet but would have it if needed. Not sure if the slits have anything to do with no condensation or not but may contribute to none.

Oh Yeah, a "PeaPod" style approach with pad under the hammock! That's what my friend from NC does with his 55* Speer PeaPod. It immediately became his favorite way to stay warm.

[GREEN THERAPY]

Mine too as there is not any need to go beyond purchasing a sleeping bag, a 9 dollar Wall Mart pad and a simple modification. I have been putting off doing it to my other down filled bag which is lighter than the Army Surplus one, but think the time to modify is here. Will add some short zippers to close up the slits I cut so it can be used as a go to ground bag again. Just in case

[Bugzee Malone]

Just thought I might as well throw in my 2 cents worth as well.
I prefer using my Thermarest prolite4 large (great mat) in both my HH and toploader.
I find the mat flattens the hammock out and gives me a better sleeping position.
I usually let it self inflate and adjust the pressure by letting some air out when laying on it. This causes the mat to curl around my shoulders and provide insulation in this area.
I have even tried putting the mat inside with me in my Montbell superstretch bag. This seemed to work well too but have found that I prefer to use the bag as a quilt when hammocking. I don't seem to move much when sleeping or end up chasing the mat around in the hammock.
...just my 2 cents worth...

[lori]

My very first night in my hammock I used the Walmart CCF and my Ray Way (Alpine version) and did not freeze in near-freezing temps. I can't say I slept well as the pad felt cold (not really cold, just not warm) and I forgot my nice fuzzy toque to keep my head warm, but I was otherwise comfy. I expect the climashield underquilt I'm making ( my concession to the budget - I wanted down ) will improve matters appreciably. Of course, by then it will be May, and not so likely to dip so far down the thermometer, but maybe I'll try leaving the pad out and see what happens.

[Undershaft]

But here's my question. Though we are all aware of the many ways in which a pad decreases comfort in a hammock for a lot of people, is it possible that the pad actually increases comfort in some ways? I just wondered what the frequent pad users thought regarding this question. For one thing, the pad seems to give me somewhat of a flatter sleeping surface. And the pad inside the SPE with the wings pushing outward on the Hennessy sides gives me a sensation of more openness inside the hammock, solving any net related problems. And it seems to me that whether in the Hennessy or in the Speer, I am actually able to lie on my side a little better than without the pads. I'm assuming this is because of the aforementioned "flatter sleeping surface" -- or so it seems. I wouldn't say it was a big difference, but the difference seems to be there.

Has anybody else noticed anything like this, or am I just hallucinating again?

I find the pad does increase comfort in the hammock for the same reasons you gave. It provides a flatter surface. Without the pad the I sink into the bottom of the hammock and the material folds around me, especially near my face. I find that uncomfortable. I, too, can sleep better on my side with the pad under me. I've ridden out several really nasty rainstorms in my Hennessy and the feeling of "more openess inside the hammock" that you describe makes a huge difference. I can lay on the pad without the netting getting too close to me, with everything I could possibly need hanging from the ridgeline above me.

I don't think a pad is such a PITA in a hammock. I have a Hennessy and my ridgerest works just fine in it. It does take a couple of minutes to get the pad, sleeping bag, and me aligned properly once I'm in the hammock, but I have plenty of time on the trail. And once everything is set to my satisfaction, I'm more comfortable than I have ever been outdoors. The only time I don't use my pad in the hammock is when it is really hot and humid (like eighty-five degrees at midnight). My ridgerest pad is fairly indestructable, weighs very little, and definately adds comfort to my hammock sleeping system.

[BillyBob58]

Well, there you have it. There are definitely widely varying opinions on the comforts ( or discomforts ) of pad use. I guess it is just something each individual has to find out for themselves.

[mrmike65]

"I'm using an 1/8" closed cell pad with reflective material laminated onto it,..."

Can you tell me, do you have the reflective material toward you or away from you? Thanks!