Techniques For Make Your Own Shock Cord Tarp Tensioners

[headchange4u]

Note: The following instructions for making shock cord tarp tensioners were originally posted on the Yahoo Hammock Camping Group by Youngblood. I am posting them in a thread for the benefit of the members of the forum, with Youngblood's permission.

Self Tensioning Guylines Made by Attaching Shock Cord to Tarp Guylines

Using small diameter shock cord tied in parallel with guyline for a tarp is easy to do and helps keep silnylon tarps taut when they stretch. I prefer to attach either 3/32 inch or 1/8 inch diameter shock cord that stretches slightly more than 100%. You need a reasonable balance of tension and stretch and these directions are for shock cord that stretches slightly more than 100%. You can tell how much shock cord stretches by grabbing 5 inches worth and seeing if it stretches to a little over 10 inches (100% stretch) or if it stretches to 15 inches (200%) or more.

I start out tying my guyline to the tarp pullout using a non-cinching knot like an overhand knot or a bowline. A non-cinching knot will give you a loop to locate a stake very close to the tarp when you want to pitch the tarp with that tie-out very close to the ground. At this point I mark where 12 inches from the tie-out is located on the guyline as shown in Figure 1.

Figure 1. Marking 12 Inches on the Guyline.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/tt1.jpg

Next I insert a 12 inch piece of shock cord into the tie-out such that it is doubled over and 6 inches long with two tails as shown in Figure 2. There is no knot used to tie the ends of the shock cord together at this point, that will be taken care of in a following step when the shock cord is attached to the guyline with a clove hitch knot.

Figure 2. Insert the Shock cord Through the Tie-out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/tt2.jpg

Now, we from a clove hitch knot at the 12 inch mark on the guyline, preferably using the two loop method, where you form two identical loops then place the second one underneath the first one as shown in Figure 3.

Figure 3. Form a Clove Hitch Knot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/tt3.jpg

The two ends of the shock cord are inserted in the loops of the clove hitch as shown in Figure 4

Figure 4. Inserting the Two Ends of the Shock Cord into the Loops of the Clove Hitch Knot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/tt4.jpg

Finish the clove hitch knot by cinching it on the two tails of the shock cord leaving approximately 1/2 inch tails as shown in Figure 5.

Figure 5. Finished Clove Hitch Knot Attaching Shock Cord to Guyline.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/tt5.jpg

At this point, I attach my stake with a clove hitch to the guyline where I want the stake located for the particular pitch I am using with my tarp. When this self tensioning guyline is initially pulled taut, it looks like Figure 6. In the morning that same line may look more like Figure 5 if it has taken up a lot of tarp stretch.

Figure 6. FullyTaut Self Tensioned Guyline.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/tt6.jpg

This technique gives you visual indication of how much stretch the self tensioning guylines are taking out of the tarp and gives you two easy to use stake-out locations when you are pitching your tarp close to the ground, as shown in Figures 7 and 8. Of those two techniques, Figure 8 locates the tarp closer to the ground but does not use the shock cords to take up any stretch in the tarp.

Figure 7. Using the Shock cord as a Stake Location.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/tt7.jpg
Figure 8. Using the Non-cinching Loop on the Guyline for a Stake Location.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/tt8.jpg

It should be noted that self tensioning guylines used with stakes is a loaded sling shot with a sharp projectile. Be careful and hold on to the stake when the self tensioning guyline is tensioned. I use stakes that have smooth round shafts and attach the stake to the guyline using a clove hitch because it is easy to tie with the two overlapping loop technique and the clove hitch knot will simply fall out when I slide it down and off the shaft of the smooth round stake. They also stay attached to the guyline until I slide them off; I personally feel it is safer that way. Be careful and set your stake firmly in the ground so that it doesn’t have a tendency to pull free and launch itself with the self tensioned guylines. The 3/32 inch and 1/8 inch shock cord isn’t particularly strong and you don’t have a long throw with the doubled over 12 inch piece so it shouldn’t be an accident waiting for a place to happen if you take reasonable precautions. I have done this without accident and without losing a stake for many years but I have heard of stakes being launched and lost as well as tarps torn and people getting minor injures from stakes attached to shock cord striking an arm or hand.

One should be particularly careful when removing tensioned stakes from the ground as they want to shoot towards the tarp like a sling shot and if you are bent down where your face is in range of the sling shot you are putting yourself in a bad position. That is probably your most vulnerable time, removing a tensioned stake from the ground. I try to keep one hand on the stake, one hand on the free end of the guyline, and stand on the safe side of the stake when I remove them… you are on the safe side when the stake is between you and the tarp. Always remember that the sling shot is pointed towards the tarp and it can’t get you if you keep the stake between you and the tarp. I keep that in mind and practice that religiously whether I am inserting a tensioned stake into the ground or removing it from the ground… you need to respect them as they can jump out and get you. If you are not comfortable dealing with tensioned guylines attached to a stake, you should not use them…you don’t have to have tensioned stakes to use tarps, they simply have some advantages in that they help keep a tarp taut without readjustments and less likely to droop, flap or get damaged in high winds.

(Both the 1/16 inch diameter guyline and 3/32 inch diameter shockcord used in these instructions can be purchased from Speer Hammocks at www.speerhammock.com . )

December 7, 2007

[headchange4u]

Note: The following instructions for making shock cord tarp tensioners were originally posted on the Yahoo Hammock Camping Group by Youngblood. I am posting them in a thread for the benefit of the members of the forum, with Youngblood's permission.

Two Loop Method of Tying a Clove Hitch Knot

The two loop method of tying a clove hitch knot is my preferred method of attaching shock cord to guyline to make a self tensioning guyline. It is also how I attach my round stakes to the guyline of my tarps.

Figure 1 shows the two loops as they are first formed. Note that it is important that both loops are the same and that they are formed in a counter clock wise direction where the last part of the loop is on top of the beginning part of the loop

Figure 1. Form Two Loops
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/ch1.jpg


The second step is simply to position the loop on the right underneath the loop on the left to form a common ‘double loop’ as shown in Figure 2.

Figure 2. Overlap the Two Loops
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/ch2.jpg

The third step is to insert whatever object you want to form the clove hitch onto; in Figure 3 the two free ends of a loop on shock cord are shown.

Figure 3. Insert Object Into the Two Overlapped Loops
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/ch3.jpg

Figure 4 shows the cinched clove hitch knot finished off by pulling the two ends tight.

Figure 4. Finished Clove Hitch Knot
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/TARP%20TENSIONER/ch4.jpg

[headchange4u]

This is how I make my shock cord tensioners. It's a little different method than Youngblood's but it achieves the same results.

Start out with approx. 12" of shock cord and approx. 5 1/2 feet of guy line:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioners008.jpg

Tie a bow line knot (http://www.animatedknots.com/bowlineboating/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com) in the end of the cord. This is what should attach the guy lines to your tarp. About 12" form the bow line also add a loop in the guy line:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioners016.jpg

Next take the shock cord through the loop in the guy line and tie a double fisherman's knot (http://www.animatedknots.com/doublefishermansscouting/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com) to form a loop:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioners021.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioners023.jpg

To finish, stretch the shock cord loop toward the bow line end of the guy line. Once to have found the maximum stretch of the shock cord loop, tie it off to the guy line at this point. This will create a limiter that will keep the shock cord from breaking:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioner006.jpg

A set of 4 of these shock cord tensioners (about 5' long each) weighs about .9 oz.

[BillyBob58]

Great info!

[Peter_pan]

HC4U, et al,

Personally, for a year round solution I prefer lines that are about 9-10 feet long....With this length I can frequently reach a sapling, bush log or rock to make a convient tie out without resorting to a peg.... Also reaching saplings etc is nice in warmer weather when I want higher tarp edges for better ventilation....

Pan

[Cannibal]

I'm using the last version of these tensioners out here on the AT and they are doing great! Have had lots of folks ask about them and a few have bought shockcord at the outfitters to make their own. Great job HC4U!

[headchange4u]

I can't take all the credit. :p


I do like Youngblood's technique better than the one I had been using.

[Hooch]

I finally did it. Yay! I tied in shock cord tarp tensioners on my SWT using Youngblood's method just a little bit ago. Way easy, so if I can do it anyone can. I tied a tight overhand knot on the ends of the shock cord as a little added extra insurance policy against the guyline sliiping off the shock cord. I'll get pics at the Gorge this weekend and post when I get back. Many thanks to Youngblood for sharing his method and HC for making a separate thread so I could see how to do it since my computer couldn't open the document. Thanx again, guys! :D

[Splat]

That's a sweet idea! I'm going to implement that whenever my tarp...and hammock...and everything else gets here! :D

[Annie]

I bought shockcord yesterday and I"m going to add these.
Thanks!

[stoikurt]

Did it to mine last week and tested it out in the yard. Going out next weekend for a true field test. Next project is a clone SWT. I hope Youngblood's not listening.

[alex30808]

Where's every one getting this dia. shock cord? Is there anywhere local (chain stores ie: Lowes or Home Depot) or must it be ordered from the internet?

[headchange4u]

Where's every one getting this dia. shock cord? Is there anywhere local (chain stores ie: Lowes or Home Depot) or must it be ordered from the internet?

I use the 1/8" size. I order mine from Quest Outfitters or Ebay, whichever is cheaper. I have seen it for sale in some Ace Hardware stores and my local outfitters, if they sell climbing gear and rope.

[NCPatrick]

I bought my shock cord at Hancock Fabrics. Looks exactly like the stuff in these pictures.

[Splat]

Ace Hardware sells Coghlan's 3/16" x 18' shock cord. I can't find any specs on it but Ace's # for it is 8131708 and it's $2.99.

[alex30808]

Thanks...I was at our Ace this evening getting my silicon for sealing the seams of my JRB CCT and in their "cheep stuff" bin there was a 15" X 15" bungie cargo net...I got it for $2.99...I'll take the knots out of it and I should have enough bungie for a lot of projects. If it dont work...I'll have the folks at Ace order some for me.

[clwilla]

A question or 2 about the STL lines shown here.

I'm new to hammock camping (in fact so new, that I haven't even received my hammock yet, though it is on the way), and so even basic stuff has me stumped.

The first is a general guyline question:
Does one keep the guyline attached to the tarp while in transport (I.e., can one keep the lines attached and throw it in the bag), or does one need to tie the lines to the tarp each time it's deployed?

The second is a STL guyline question:
I'm assuming, although perhaps incorrectly, that when once ties these lines and stakes them in, that the shock cord too is fully taut, and not just .

Much appreciated.

[Lone Wolf]

I take mine off and put them in a small bag that goes in with the tarp. I just got a HH Hex fly from Heesha and it has pocktets on the corners to stow the lines.

[headchange4u]

A question or 2 about the STL lines shown here.

I'm new to hammock camping (in fact so new, that I haven't even received my hammock yet, though it is on the way), and so even basic stuff has me stumped.

The first is a general guyline question:
Does one keep the guyline attached to the tarp while in transport (I.e., can one keep the lines attached and throw it in the bag), or does one need to tie the lines to the tarp each time it's deployed?

The second is a STL guyline question:
I'm assuming, although perhaps incorrectly, that when once ties these lines and stakes them in, that the shock cord too is fully taut, and not just .

Much appreciated.

1. Most people keep the line attached to the tarp all the timeS.

2. When staking out the lines, the shock cord should be at full tension, or pretty close. That's because as the fabric of the tarp stretches after being setup the tensioners will keep everything nice and taut.

[clwilla]

1. Most people keep the line attached to the tarp all the timeS.

2. When staking out the lines, the shock cord should be at full tension, or pretty close. That's because as the fabric of the tarp stretches after being setup the tensioners will keep everything nice and taut.

Thanks. I though that the line, including the shock cord, should be fully taut, or as close as possible, but wanted to make sure.

Where are you at? Your profile says Kentucky, but the Bluegrass State isn't exactly small.

I too am in Kentucky; Wilmore to be exact. It's about 20 minutes southwest of Lexington (in Jessamine County).

[headchange4u]

BTW,

I bought this shock cord from Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/MIL-Shock-cord-black-od-tan-coyote-100ft-1-8th-inch_W0QQitemZ230267012764QQihZ013QQcategoryZ36071 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and it's really nice and available in different colors.

[GvilleDave]

I just installed the shock cord tensioners on my SWT using HC4U's method. It was a breeze. I got the shock cord at Hancock fabrics ($0.74 / yd). I have to admit that looking at the directions above the clove hitch looks like it would let the shock cord slip through, especially when there isn't tension on the knot, but I was wrong. The clove hitch seems to hold really well so far.

This is a real newbie type question: I assume that you don't install tensioners on the ridge lines of the tarp. Is that correct?

Thanks for the tip and I appreciate the good instrucions and knot tying how-to!

[Cannibal]

Not necessary on the ridge. Nice aren't they? :D

[stoikurt]

When I made my DIY SWT recently I put tensioners on the 4 corners. However, I only used a single piece of bungee cord rather that doubling it up. I tied one end to the D-Ring with an Anchor Hitch (http://www.animatedknots.com/anchor/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com) (or Anchor Bend) and a Double Fisherman's Bend (http://www.animatedknots.com/doublefishermans/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com) to connect the other end to the tie out line about 10-12" out.

It has worked quite well so far.

[Manbert]

Great, simple mod! Thanks for the instructions. I can't wait to get this on the trail.

[swampfox]

Where's every one getting this dia. shock cord? Is there anywhere local (chain stores ie: Lowes or Home Depot) or must it be ordered from the internet?

Like a couple of others, I found it at Hancock Fabrics @ $.79 yd. It is in white or black.
They believe it is "Elastic Waistband Cord".
Little do they know...

[TinaLouise]

this has given me a great project learning class for my scouts!!!! Gotta go find Ace hardware for the shockcord.....
The pictures here are fantastic, I can put them up at our meeting straight from my computer and believe me, a picture is worth a thousand words when dealing with teenaged boys!!!

[pizza]

I made these too and they worked out great!

[titanium_hiker]

has anyone had any issues with too much tension?

TH

[pineapplenewton]

would this (http://www.amazon.com/14110-Shock-cord-Repair-Kit/dp/B000M51A2U) be the type of shock cord you can use?

[headchange4u]

would this (http://www.amazon.com/14110-Shock-cord-Repair-Kit/dp/B000M51A2U) be the type of shock cord you can use?

I didn't see a size listed for the shock cord you linked to. I would say it would work just fine. I still think Ebay is one of the best sources for the 1/8" shock cord.

[bob2guns]

1/8" x 500 FT. Shock Cord - BLK
Buy new: $20.00


1/16" x 1000FT. Shock cord - BLK
Buy new: $17.00

http://www.amazon.com/s.html/ref=bl_sr_sporting-goods?ie=UTF8&node=3375301&brand=APCC

this looks pretty cheap---don't kno where its made---thinking if i should take a chance on it......

[Ramblinrev]

1/8" x 500 FT. Shock Cord - BLK
Buy new: $20.00

$12.00 shipping changed the figures some....

[bob2guns]

http://www.supplycaptain.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=183&ParentCat=59


this is the stuff i'm getting.......made in usa...rated.....7 cents a ft....and i like the colors!!!!

[LostCause]

That's where I got mine the last time I ordered. Good supplier of 550 paracord as well.

[Shortbus]

would i need to use shock cord if i am using figure 9s i apologize if it is a stupid question but im still trying to soak up all the info :eek: brain overload

[animalcontrol]

would i need to use shock cord if i am using figure 9s i apologize if it is a stupid question but im still trying to soak up all the info :eek: brain overload

yes, the tensioners only take up the stretch in the sil nylon of the tarp. The figure 9 just replaces a knot...it doesn't help with stretch (well, it would be easier to re tighten I guess)

[nsgrossman]

Awesome tut!

Sounds like a super easy way to tension your tarp on the trail, will definitely need to try this as soon as I can find some shock cord!

[KerMegan]

Any place with climbing gear will be likely to have some..

[beep]

Awesome tut!

Sounds like a super easy way to tension your tarp on the trail, will definitely need to try this as soon as I can find some shock cord!

Ace Hardware has shock cord as a standard item sold off the roll, as does any outdoor shop that caters to climbers. REI carries it ($0.15 per foot for 1/8" shock cord).

[Roadtorque]

Is the clove hitch really the best knot to use? Is there not a problem with the shock cord slipping?

[headchange4u]

I have made many, many of these tensioners and the clove hitch has never slipped.

[Albert Skye]

Is the clove hitch really the best knot to use? Is there not a problem with the shock cord slipping?

The clove might not slip, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best knot. You might try the one the suggested in this post. Each has it's own advantages.

[pizza]

I replied quite some time ago about these tensioners. They do work well however I have found that tying the shock cord loop into the tie-out line is really an unnecessary complexity and actually is more tangle prone. If you are using good quality 1/8 inch dia. shock cord all you need to do is a tie a small loop of shock cord to each of your four tarp tie-outs. Then tie your tie-out lines directly to the shock cord loops. When pitching the tarp nice and tight it usually stretches the shock cord 70% to 90% of the way. I've been doing it this way all year now on the same shock cord loops and they are holding up just fine. Your tarp tie out lines are going to break or your tarp is going to tear before the shock cord is going to break in gale force winds.

[sir_n0thing]

I finally got around to trying this out... Put tensioners on my new Speer winter tarp. Did a few using both the methods listed at the beginning of the thread, we'll see which works out best over time.

[lazy river road]

OOhhh nice that this thread poped up, This thread was just being talked about in another thread I started in trying to decide what rope to buy. Sir Nothing glad to hear that these directions worked out for ya, im going to be ordering the materials in the next coming weeks to make self tensioning guide lines. I want to do one set with bunge cord and another pair with the surgical tubeing. Sir Nothing what line did you use to make your tensioners?

[theerb]

Shock cord is like .10 a foot at REI - I was planning on just using it alone for my tie-outs. Anyon ehave trouble with that in the past? I figure paracoed for the ridgeline and shockcord for the tie outs?

[Trout]

This last hang really showed me how helpful having something adding some tension to the tarp edge is. Going to make some tensioners myself soon. Great thread.

[WarmSoda]

Alternative Method (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14822) for those who use Zing-it/Lash-it

[chiefams]

Just made my own tensioners using HC4U's method... They are sweet and I have blisters! YES!!!

[Albert Skye]

In my ongoing engagement with simplicity and versatility I aim to make things modular and useful (in more ways than one).

A section of elastic tubing can be terminated with short cord loops and prusiked to the line; the opposite end (or fold) of the elastic tubing, attached to the tarp.

Such tensioners are easily removed and remain ready to serve other purposes (spear fishing sling, sling shot/bow, &c.).

[schwieb]

I replied quite some time ago about these tensioners. They do work well however I have found that tying the shock cord loop into the tie-out line is really an unnecessary complexity and actually is more tangle prone. If you are using good quality 1/8 inch dia. shock cord all you need to do is a tie a small loop of shock cord to each of your four tarp tie-outs. Then tie your tie-out lines directly to the shock cord loops. When pitching the tarp nice and tight it usually stretches the shock cord 70% to 90% of the way. I've been doing it this way all year now on the same shock cord loops and they are holding up just fine. Your tarp tie out lines are going to break or your tarp is going to tear before the shock cord is going to break in gale force winds.

I have been considering doing this too. Seems like the simplest solution.

[tekape]

I have been considering doing this too. Seems like the simplest solution.

This is the way I did it as well...seems simple and easy.

I took 12" of shock cord, looped it through the tie outs, then used "mini" whoopie slings for the remainder of the line down to the stake. Easily adjustable and no extra hardware.

[AccidentProne]

This is a very clever and useful idea. My only question is how do they do in cold weather? Do they freeze and not take up the slack?

[hushnel]

You could use a "Constrictor" knot if you don't have faith in the "Clove Hitch". Tied this way you don't need and end it can be tied on the bite. It is considered a permanent knot but I've always been able to untie them.

http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/45195/2749703160033885154S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/45088/2020031800033885154S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/24528/2777229490033885154S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/42353/2358960980033885154S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/45789/2277705790033885154S600x600Q85.jpg

[SteelerNation]

Shock cord is like .10 a foot at REI - I was planning on just using it alone for my tie-outs. Anyon ehave trouble with that in the past? I figure paracoed for the ridgeline and shockcord for the tie outs?

I was thinking about this as well, but haven't seen any responses to this question. Would this work, or is it too much stretch? Or is it a weight issue?

[Just Jeff]

The wind is more likely to break a shock cord than a guy line. I'd use a guy line and just use the shock cord to take up the slack. That way if it breaks, your tarp isn't flapping around.

[SteelerNation]

Makes sense. Thanks for the info.

[Norseman]

Great info tried some techniques and made some great tarp tensioners for about a dollar total thanks guys :D

[JWinNC]

I was thinking about this as well, but haven't seen any responses to this question. Would this work, or is it too much stretch? Or is it a weight issue?

I use shock cord alone. I have not had any problem, but I'm rethinking it after reading this.

jw

[mountain_man_mike]

A good resource for shock cord is the set of tent poles in the tent we ditched when we converted to comfortable sleep. Even one at a garage sale or flea market will have more than enough shock cord to complete all your hanging projects.

Happy Trails to all...

[grok]

I haven't seen this technique. I hope you all like it. The form can be changed but this one is about 12 in of shock cord attatched to a whoopie on both sides. The interesting part is the way they are connected like a stop loop on a whoopie. I removed some of the rubber from the ends and did the figure eight bury at both ends. much cleaner, smaller, and lighter than using a piece of slingshot cord. Just takes a lil' time. I've made two that have shock cord in the middle lash it on each end with a static loop. perfect for tie outs for my hammock so I can still get some swing.

'If I have seen further, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants'
-Sir Isaac Newton-

[Hangandy]

I don't know if this is covered elsewhere, but it is easy as stink to make your own Jacks R Better STLs (Self-Tensioning Line).

1. I use 6 ft of Zing-It for my line which is available cheap from Dutchware.

2. Tie a small loop (i" di.) in one one end (I actually add some shrinktube over the loose ends to clean it up.

3. Tie a double knot about 1-2 inches below the knot.

4. Slide roughly 4-5 inches of surgical tube over the line and then milk 1-1.5" of it over the knot.

5. Use a small zapstrap to pinch and hold the tube just above the knot.

6. Milk the tube back over the knot.

7. Stretch the remaining 4-5" of tube down the line, tie a knot 1.5" above the end of where the tube stretches.

8. You can release the pull in the tube while you tie another double knot at your mark.

9. Restretch and then milk the tube over the lower knot. Repeat steps 4,5, and 6.

Your line should be done. For an added bonus take a 4 inch piece of line from you Zing-it and tie it into a loop. Use the loop and prussik it to your STL. This can then be used to adjust the line to meet your stake.

Note, this is simply how I copied JRB's design. I believe his uses a constrictor knot for under the tarp adjustment, but that would be way too much work for me.

[Boomer]

Hangandy,

What is the longevity of surgical tubing? I recall having it when I was younger and it got goey in parts and cracked. Do you know if there are different types of tubing?

[Hangandy]

Hangandy,

What is the longevity of surgical tubing? I recall having it when I was younger and it got goey in parts and cracked. Do you know if there are different types of tubing?

Actually I'm not sure. I think it has been discussed here and that it wasn't a problem. I wonder if the latex is superior to the old rubber? What I do remember some questioning is effectiveness below freezing, but I don't think that was a big deal either. In a pinch, even if it failed, the zing-it will hold and you would just have to retie your guyline.

I've only used mine for a few months so I'll let you know if I have any problems.

[hrairoorah]

Good info. Thanks.

[Boomer]

Yea, I recall reading someones posting about making them DIY and having them not work in freezing conditions. They found the JRB ones still worked though. Wonder what the difference was.

[Shug]

Yea, I recall reading someones posting about making them DIY and having them not work in freezing conditions. They found the JRB ones still worked though. Wonder what the difference was.

I think it was silicone vs latex. I made some from sling shot tube. Great...but when around 30º they would stretch out and stay long.
now I do the guyline shock-cord method as in this thread.
Shug

[bchboy1206]

To finish, stretch the shock cord loop toward the bow line end of the guy line. Once to have found the maximum stretch of the shock cord loop, tie it off to the guy line at this point. This will create a limiter that will keep the shock cord from breaking:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioner006.jpg

A set of 4 of these shock cord tensioners (about 5' long each) weighs about .9 oz.

Sorry to resurrect this post but a Question....

When you double the shock cord wouldn't that create so much tension that it may cause your stakes to pull out or put too much stress on the tarp itself???

Thanks
Jim

[DemostiX]

Hangandy,

What is the longevity of surgical tubing? I recall having it when I was younger and it got goey in parts and cracked. Do you know if there are different types of tubing?

We should stop calling for surgical tubing, most of which is produced and discarded in vast quantities today to hook up respirators and IV lines. That stuff is clear, might be just 1/8" ID. It has no stretch properties.

Exercise bands or stretch bands or resistance bands are what we want. Except in some inexpensive form before the sports mfgs put a brand name on it and hire hard bodies to hawk it in infomercials. The stuff I have is green, a decade old, and mostly as pliable as when new. No hazing or cracks except at the tight knots. Long-lasting enough for me to be able to launch water balloons decades after I should have stopped.

[Ears]

revisiting this more for a question to you guys who know about all that is knowledgable about elastomeres and such. on a HH when the tarp is attached to the A sym, so ive read it sags, would a thick tensioner line hookup work to keep the tarp taut? i mean changing the origional hookup system with some good ole american made shock cord. maybe china made doesnt really matter. but this is just me reading and thinking.
would it work? thanks guys.

[smokeeater908]

I like this idea better than sling shot bands.

[defsquad]

crazy question.. anyone know if any of our resident hammock forum related sellers (JRB, Warbonnet, et al) are selling these sorts of things?

i saw that joann fabrics sells 1/8" shock cord, but its 165$!!!!! i'm not sure i'm ready to invest that much into materials for diy stuff just yet.

thanks for any pointers :D

[TrailH4x]

I go the continuous ridge line way myself. Get's rid of the in the hammock sag and lets the tarp be a stand alone unit for deployment during showers or lunch on the trail. Arrowhead equipment should be able to help you with shock cord by the foot too. I'm currently out...

[TiredFeet]

Jacks R' Better sells line tensioners here (http://www.jacksrbetter.com/STLs.htm) using elastic tubbing instead of shock cord. There are pros and cons either way.

[defsquad]

Jacks R' Better sells line tensioners here (http://www.jacksrbetter.com/STLs.htm) using elastic tubbing instead of shock cord. There are pros and cons either way.

TiredFeet; I had read a few places that SilNylon tarps are the main types of tarp material that would benefit from the tarp tensioners, is this not the case? When you say pros/cons are you referring to the silicone tube method vs. shock cord method?

This is all pretty new to me, as my last tarp was the stock asym HH tarp that went with my HH Explorer Deluxe Asym.

Thanks! (and sorry for the thread hijacking! further responses from me will be in a new thread .. unless my questions and their resulting answers still fit with the headchange4u's original post)

EDIT: Nevermind, I went ahead and just ordered some of those premade tensioners from JRB; thanks for the link!

[icedfire477]

This shock cord worked out well: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042YN6TM

[WarmSoda]

I had read a few places that SilNylon tarps are the main types of tarp material that would benefit from the tarp tensioners, is this not the case? !

For the benefit of others:
nylon stretches.

Nylon tree straps stretch, which is why most people use polypropylene for straps and there are whole threads dedicated to stories of people ending up with their butt in the dirt over night using nylon straps.

Silnylon is still nylon and it stretches, up to 1%-3% when wet. Tarp tensioners help to keep the tarp taught when the tarp stretches. They are not needed on other types of materials, like spinn tarps or cuben tarps, as these materials do not stretch.

[jeepthangjim]

Thank for this instruction. I have a set made out of surgical tubing and they work great but they are way too bulky for me. I will be doing this very soon.

[jeepthangjim]

Alright. I got my materials from BWDD yesterday for this project and another. I was surprised with how easy these were to make and how much better they are than my old ones. :boggle: The weigh so much less and take up almost no space compared to my old ones. After my first hammock and tarp modifications I had to carry a separate bag for all my hammock and tarp suspension components because they wouldn't fit in the original stuff sack. My goal this year has been to upgrade to better suspensions while getting everything to fit back into the original stuff sack. With the completion of this project the only thing I need to do is get some better, smaller stakes for the tarp. Other than that everything is back in it's sack. Thank you so much! :D

[Helen0101]

Thank you so much for your detailed information! :D

[NickoftheWoods]

This may be premature but I have been making Opie style no knot self tensioning guy lines for my tarps but have modified it even more. Using slimmer tubing and no stopper knots or any knots of any kind I have come up with my own take on the self tension lines. I also make a short self tensioning unit that can easily be attached to anyones existing lines. The tensioning units right now are 2 sizes. 10 inch long unit stretches to 15 inches and only weighs 2 grams. The longer unit stretches from 15 out to 24 inches and weighs 4 grams. I can make full length guy lines with the tensioners as well. I will have photos and lines for sale soon on my new site when I officially announce it on the HF before Thanksgiving.

[jasonb986]

This may be premature but I have been making Opie style no knot self tensioning guy lines for my tarps but have modified it even more. Using slimmer tubing and no stopper knots or any knots of any kind I have come up with my own take on the self tension lines. I also make a short self tensioning unit that can easily be attached to anyones existing lines. The tensioning units right now are 2 sizes. 10 inch long unit stretches to 15 inches and only weighs 2 grams. The longer unit stretches from 15 out to 24 inches and weighs 4 grams. I can make full length guy lines with the tensioners as well. I will have photos and lines for sale soon on my new site when I officially announce it on the HF before Thanksgiving.

Any photos?

[bindibadgi]

OK it's after Thanksgiving. Did I miss a link somewhere CryOTheWild?

[BlakeRoberts2107]

I m definitely going to give these tensioners a try

[Home Run]

HC4U, Youngblood, Pan....just want to say thanks. I am now the proud owner of some self tensioning guylines. My first DIY project, albeit a small one. I'm kinda liking this stuff.

Home Run

[Mudman]

Is this method any lighter than using stright shockcord?

[Charlie Brew]

I was able to get 3/16 shock cord locally at the ace hardware. Would I be better with a loop (overhand knot) at each end of the shock cord as opposed to a continuous loop? I am just wondering since this is twice as thick as the 3/32 and almost twice as thick as the 1/8.

[mophead]

Thanks for the instructions. I have been having good luck with hair band things:

https://womensrunningmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/ponytail-holder.jpg

A dozen for around $3.00 comes out to about 60 something cents per foot which is surely more or at best comparable to other places after shipping is included. But they're already looped if you prefer that route and are handy for this project.

[RamenShamen]

Great ideas! Here is my alternative method.http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=17184&catid=member&orderby=title&direction=ASC&imageuser=19030&cutoffdate=-1

[RamenShamen]

Great ideas! Here is my alternative method.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=1853&pictureid=14010

[Charlie Brew]

Great ideas! Here is my alternative method.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=1853&pictureid=14010

Cool man, I'd like to know more about your alternative. I see what you did on the left. What kind of knots did you put in your tarp lines. Is that a separate section of shock cord on the right towards the gRound?

[Murl]

It looks like he addded a section of shock cord to the Nite Ize figure-9 tent line kit:
http://www.rei.com/zoom/mm/7151eaba-1a61-49d1-971d-6a1cf21fcfc7.jpg/150

I think they're around $10 for the set.

[Ronadon]

I was thinking yesterday have any of you ever tried using a elastic hair tie? They are essentially the same thing as a looped piece of shock chord. I would guess they are not super durable but would be a light, cheap and easy solution on the run. I think I may try it out and see how it works for a bit.

[hommes90]

I skimmed the thread and didn't see my technique, so thought I would post it. I bought a 4 pack of the smallest bungie cords my hardware store had. $3 for a pack of four, I think. I took off the metal hooks, retaining the small metal bands on the bungies that created a small loop at each end. I put a fixed loop in 8' of 1.75 zing-it and passed the other end through one of the loops. I pulled tight a knot around the top of the bungie, right under the bungie loop where my fixed loop was coming out. Then I just held the bungie cord and turned it to coil the zing-it around the bungie. When I got to the end I tied another knot and passed the other end through the bungie loop. The fixed loop is used to fix the tensioner to the tarp and the other end goes around the stake. I think this will have a lower "tangle factor" than some of the ideas I saw posted upstream.

[Rampant]

I love the idea for these. I'm gonna get out and make some as soon as I get some more shock cord.

[wulfy117]

o-rings from the plumbing section of the hardware store?

[TheCoyote]

Hey guys, need your opinion. I just ordered the WB Superfly tarp. I plan on making STL for the four corners and using 12 feet of shock cord for the pull outs. Should i make STLs for the doors as well?

[Bart the fart]

Thanks HF...just made a set and look like they will work great!....I used 1/8 shockcord and braided mason line
Cheers
Bart

[trippaw]

Thanks for this info! Helps a lot!

[NCrocks]

Thanks for these detailed directions ! Just got my OES MacCat and used your post to make tensioners for the corners. Your post made it easy to do.

[RR_Texan]

Great directions. Just finished these for my Superfly.

dave

[DemostiX]

I wrapped a 2lb bar-bell tight with some 1/8" shock cord, using up all the stretch in the wrap.

Then I measured off 8" from the knot, pinched, and lifted the bar-bell by the cord at the pinch. The 8" about doubled in length and was within a few inches of maximum extension as the bell lifted from the floor.

That implies that all the tension on the tie-out with a nearly stretched out 8" length of 1/8" shock cord tensioner isjust 2 lbs / 1 kg.

First, that hardly seems like cranking it down.

Second, should much more pressure be applied to the tie-outs, from heavier shock cord and stronger elastomers?

Third, is 400 lb breaking strength tie-out line excessive, in preparation for a load all night of just 0.5% of that?

[trippaw]

Great thread, just what I needed! Thanks all!

[medicineman03]

Awesome thread! Thanks for the clear directions H4C. I made mine a little longer, and decided to wrap the lash-it around the shock cord. here's a pic...
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=2084&pictureid=15060

[iRokk]

What would be the disadvantage of just using shock-cord as a guy-line?

[titanium_hiker]

What would be the disadvantage of just using shock-cord as a guy-line?
Long quote from first post in this thread:


It should be noted that self tensioning guylines used with stakes is a loaded sling shot with a sharp projectile. Be careful and hold on to the stake when the self tensioning guyline is tensioned. I use stakes that have smooth round shafts and attach the stake to the guyline using a clove hitch because it is easy to tie with the two overlapping loop technique and the clove hitch knot will simply fall out when I slide it down and off the shaft of the smooth round stake. They also stay attached to the guyline until I slide them off; I personally feel it is safer that way. Be careful and set your stake firmly in the ground so that it doesn’t have a tendency to pull free and launch itself with the self tensioned guylines. The 3/32 inch and 1/8 inch shock cord isn’t particularly strong and you don’t have a long throw with the doubled over 12 inch piece so it shouldn’t be an accident waiting for a place to happen if you take reasonable precautions. I have done this without accident and without losing a stake for many years but I have heard of stakes being launched and lost as well as tarps torn and people getting minor injures from stakes attached to shock cord striking an arm or hand.

One should be particularly careful when removing tensioned stakes from the ground as they want to shoot towards the tarp like a sling shot and if you are bent down where your face is in range of the sling shot you are putting yourself in a bad position. That is probably your most vulnerable time, removing a tensioned stake from the ground. I try to keep one hand on the stake, one hand on the free end of the guyline, and stand on the safe side of the stake when I remove them… you are on the safe side when the stake is between you and the tarp. Always remember that the sling shot is pointed towards the tarp and it can’t get you if you keep the stake between you and the tarp. I keep that in mind and practice that religiously whether I am inserting a tensioned stake into the ground or removing it from the ground… you need to respect them as they can jump out and get you. If you are not comfortable dealing with tensioned guylines attached to a stake, you should not use them…you don’t have to have tensioned stakes to use tarps, they simply have some advantages in that they help keep a tarp taut without readjustments and less likely to droop, flap or get damaged in high winds.


I believe it's something to do with the richochet effect- this is lessened when you have a regular 'string' attached as well, and not as much shock cord tightened down. Shug uses shock cord for his pull outs (not tie outs) and that works well and is flexible.

TH

[iRokk]

Gotcha, I was just wondering because I had thought Shug was using them for his tie-outs in the video as well. I suppose it does make sense to only use the shock-cord for the pull-outs.

[doogie]

Gotcha, I was just wondering because I had thought Shug was using them for his tie-outs in the video as well. I suppose it does make sense to only use the shock-cord for the pull-outs.

I believe that Shug uses the shock cords for the pullouts and doors, but not for the guy lines.
At least that's what I noticed between laughs.

[dreamstalker]

Bicycle inner tubes from thin large bike tubes cut 1/2" wide are a very nice multipurpose item.
Cut pieces for shock cords.
Use long for lashings.
In a pinch they make great firestarter tinder that works when wet.
In a pinch they are good for a slingshot.
They make good grip wraps..
We cut rubber bands for altoid tins..etc..

Cut 12"-14" tubes for walking stick side storage.

[Grinder]

I use tarp bungees.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_107734-37340-JB3V430_0__?storeId=10151&Ntt=tarp+bungee&UserSearch=tarp+bungee&productId=1001939&N=0&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&cm_mmc=search_google-_-Lowe's%20Dynamic%20Search%20Ads-_-Lowes%20Site-_-_cat:lowes.com

[Billybobky]

So many great idea's where do I start.

[Omgak]

tyvm made it very easy to make

[Michelle the Camper]

This is how I make my shock cord tensioners. It's a little different method than Youngblood's but it achieves the same results.

Start out with approx. 12" of shock cord and approx. 5 1/2 feet of guy line:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioners008.jpg

Tie a bow line knot (http://www.animatedknots.com/bowlineboating/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com) in the end of the cord. This is what should attach the guy lines to your tarp. About 12" form the bow line also add a loop in the guy line:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioners016.jpg

Next take the shock cord through the loop in the guy line and tie a double fisherman's knot (http://www.animatedknots.com/doublefishermansscouting/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com) to form a loop:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioners021.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioners023.jpg

To finish, stretch the shock cord loop toward the bow line end of the guy line. Once to have found the maximum stretch of the shock cord loop, tie it off to the guy line at this point. This will create a limiter that will keep the shock cord from breaking:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/ShockCordTensioner006.jpg

A set of 4 of these shock cord tensioners (about 5' long each) weighs about .9 oz.

This is a great demo/explanation, an't wait to try it on my own set up

[s1125r]

Really nice writeup, thanks.

[Darwin S and A]

this looks easy enough for me to do! About to have the most tensiony tarp tensioners tensioning tension.

[Matmat]

The question is though: Is it really necessary? I have a Big Mamajamba and follow Brandon's advice.

Tie the ridgeline down rather tight. Then really pull on the guy lines (I use figure 9 for all tarp connections, so it is quite easy to pull pretty strongly yet with enough feel) to have a very tight setup.

This ended up nice and strong after nights of rain, at least as tight as with bungee cords. Probably more. I feel the construction of this tarp is tough enough and offers that little give to protect it from gusts of wind.

I do use bungee cords for the tie-outs though, but I am not sure it is really better.

[pizza]

I took the shock cord tensioners off the corner tie-outs on my Superfly. The result...much better. The tarp pitched tighter and stayed that way even in the morning after rain.

I may take them off my MacCat tarp as well. I do use prussics on the corner tie-outs up at the tarp end of the line. I hate tying knots.

I use short shock cord tensioners (6 inch or so) on my side pull outs though. Using all shock cord is too flimsy so I just use a short piece at the tarp and regular line for the rest.

[blackd]

I am making a set of these and keeping them in my bag, great idea.

[OldRagFreeze]

So far using heavier shock cord has been brought up twice, the second time with some pretty good analysis, and no one has tried it?

[Rabid Deer]

Five years after this was originally posted and I finally made a set. I added prusik knots to my guy lines as well. I saw this on when I stumbled upon a Hammock Forums group hang last month. A couple people were using prusiks and I thought that was a great idea.
Looks like Pizza didn't like his shock cord tensioners with his Superfly and I have the same tarp, but we'll see how it goes.

[otter]

been wondering how to do this thinks for the info

[otter]

Added mine to my tarp thanks for the info.

[Mr. Tettnanger]

What knot is used in the middle of the guyline to form the loop that the shock cord goes through?

[fallkniven]

What knot is used in the middle of the guyline to form the loop that the shock cord goes through?


You talking about the clove hitch? (http://www.animatedknots.com/clovehalfhitches/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)

[Mr. Tettnanger]

You talking about the clove hitch? (http://www.animatedknots.com/clovehalfhitches/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)

I don't think so. It is the knot in post#3 by Headchange4U. It is used to form a loop in the line.

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc376/MrTettnanger/985946DB-9C7A-4887-BE85-2678B7FCA5BF-42563-00005C10EF734035.jpg

[fallkniven]

That's just a simple over hand knot on a bight.

Unless your talking about the top loop in the photo, that's a bowline (http://www.animatedknots.com/bowline/index.php?Categ=climbing&LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com).

[Hototo]

I just made a set of these for my tarp. Going to try them out this afternoon.

[clean]

Question: Will my 70D polyester HH Hex stretch much? What about when wet? The answers are no and no, right?

I'm asking because as much as I like DIY fiddling, I don't think I have much of a need for shock corded guylines. I have exactly one night in my setup, I'm a noob.

[NibiruMagick]

could a hair tie work just as well?

[Brute1100]

could a hair tie work just as well?

Although I currently shave my head... I had long hair for a very long time... And I wouldn't trust them the ones without the metal ends usually bust open at the seam, and the ones with the metal end I would hate to sho e those sharp corners in the stuff sack with ny tarp...

But not saying it won't work, give it a shot and let us know...

[savagesicslayer]

This place is great. I can't wait to get home and add these to my hammock setups. Thanks all.

[spaceantelope]

Has anyone here tried attaching the shock cord right to the tarp and then attaching the guyline to the shock cord?
This seems like it would be much easier and simpler.

[Brute1100]

Has anyone here tried attaching the shock cord right to the tarp and then attaching the guyline to the shock cord?
This seems like it would be much easier and simpler.

Yes a lot of people do... But the issue I have with it is when the shock cord breaks you lose your line... I have had shock cord break too many times due to heat to trust me solely...

[Scout620]

After reading this I tried this weekend. Worked great! Thanks!

[gcy24]

Excellent, thank you!

[wildewudu]

could a hair tie work just as well?

Hair ties are too weak---and I do have long hair, have for over three decades now; the elasticity of all hair ties are too low to handle the kind of stress imposed by tarps to be effective at all. Fabric stores, hardware stores, marine supply stores and other places sell shockcord that would work fine, but hair ties won't last very long and won't provide enough tension to merit the effort.



Has anyone here tried attaching the shock cord right to the tarp and then attaching the guyline to the shock cord?
This seems like it would be much easier and simpler.

As mentioned already, if your shockcord breaks you lose your tarp guy. In cold weather some shockcord loses a lot of elasticity and either won't work as effectively (providing less tautness) or will become brittle and break. Like any rubber, it will start to age soon after it's made and will eventually break, it's just a matter of time. Using the shockcord in the middle of a length of cordage is a 'fail safe' design to prevent damage/loss of your tarp.

I followed this post and experimented with the shockcord tensioners soon after it was posted to hammockforums...so awesome it's still getting attention and feedback after all these years! Still a great, simple, and effective design! :)

[dixoncreations]

I used 24" of shock cord ONLY as my tarp tensioners on my superfly. They are tied directly to the loops on the tarp and then wrapped around the stakes to form self tightening loops as Brandon shows in his SuperFly instructional.

Is there an advantage to using the method explained in this thread rather than using all shock cord?

[dixoncreations]

As mentioned already, if your shockcord breaks you lose your tarp guy. In cold weather some shockcord loses a lot of elasticity and either won't work as effectively (providing less tautness) or will become brittle and break. Like any rubber, it will start to age soon after it's made and will eventually break, it's just a matter of time. Using the shockcord in the middle of a length of cordage is a 'fail safe' design to prevent damage/loss of your tarp.




Is there an advantage to using the method explained in this thread rather than using all shock cord?

Edit, clearly there is.

[Pimms]

I love the instructions provided with pictures here. I am definitively going to try make some of these for my tarp my partner's superfly tarp. I am trying to explain how they will work and look like and she isn't understanding. I know I saw a video on how they work and how to tie the knots etc. but for the life of me I can't find it again on youtube. Anyone know of this video and can provide the link it would be much appreciated. Thanks!! This community has been great for a new hammock hanger like me!

[Sterwee]

Nifty! Can't wait to try to implement this!

[savagesicslayer]

Ona recent kayaking trip the wind became a serious issue. These tie outs work fantastic.
The winds were really making my tarp dance but it was never under any serious stress.
Here's me holding the line for the sake of photography.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/7948_10151645029162107_1165391576_n.jpg

Once I let it go see it dance.....
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/971389_10151645029352107_2085988297_n.jpg

[DAdamEich]

I've been wanting to make some kind of tension guy lines for a while now and this seems like a very easy way to do it. Before now, I was planning on making them using surgical tubing, like this example - http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=19526

[rockclimber]

I know this is an old topic, but I was wondering something. Many people recommend against using 550 paracord for guylines because they stretch. If you are making an auto-tensioning guyline wouldn't they be able to absorb the minimal stretch (I say minimal because you are using it to guy a tarp, not to hold body weight) of the paracord along with the stretch of the tarp? I only ask because you can get 100' of 550 paracord for $9 with free shipping, enough for all your guy lines PLUS some. Z-line, zing-it, etc are about 3 times that. Any good reason not to use paracord if the lines are auto-tensioning?

[doogie]

I know this is an old topic, but I was wondering something. Many people recommend against using 550 paracord for guylines because they stretch. If you are making an auto-tensioning guyline wouldn't they be able to absorb the minimal stretch (I say minimal because you are using it to guy a tarp, not to hold body weight) of the paracord along with the stretch of the tarp? I only ask because you can get 100' of 550 paracord for $9 with free shipping, enough for all your guy lines PLUS some. Z-line, zing-it, etc are about 3 times that. Any good reason not to use paracord if the lines are auto-tensioning?

For backpackers there is a considerable weight and volume savings using zing-it vs paracord.

[sjarvis]

I know this is an old topic, but I was wondering something. Many people recommend against using 550 paracord for guylines because they stretch. If you are making an auto-tensioning guyline wouldn't they be able to absorb the minimal stretch (I say minimal because you are using it to guy a tarp, not to hold body weight) of the paracord along with the stretch of the tarp? I only ask because you can get 100' of 550 paracord for $9 with free shipping, enough for all your guy lines PLUS some. Z-line, zing-it, etc are about 3 times that. Any good reason not to use paracord if the lines are auto-tensioning?

I used BRAIDED (NOT NOT NOT twisted) Mason's Line, which is WAY cheaper than Zingit, etc. AND paracord. You can get it at Home Depot or Lowe's or whatever for about $7 for 500 feet. It doesn't stretch, weighs VERY little, and it takes a knot well. Plus, it's almost always neon colored, so it's easy to find your rig. I carry a bunch with me all the time (I carry some paracord, too).

Thanks to dejoha (Derek Hansen) for the braided mason's line suggestion.

I used the self-tensioning guyline method described in the original post (if I remember correctly), and it works just great on both my Warbonnet Edge and my son's Warbonnet Superfly.

I also use the braided mason's line for my tarp ridgeline (one on each end, two half hitches to the ring on the tarp, around the tree, back to the ring, then tie a Tautline Hitch to tighten. Works brilliantly.

[poca]

Just finished making some tarp tensioners from all the great ideas on this thread and thought I'd share. Thanks everyone they turned out great!
(This is my first time posting a photo...hope I did it right)

[rockclimber]

Thanks for the replies regarding using paracord. I guess my real question is am I correct in saying that because the lines are auto-tensioning that the stretch from the paracord would no longer be an issue?

[rockclimber]

Just finished making some tarp tensioners from all the great ideas on this thread and thought I'd share. Thanks everyone they turned out great!
(This is my first time posting a photo...hope I did it right)

Poca those look great! Nice job!

[natefoo]

Love the simple tutorial, very helpful.

Thanks!

[belro]

This is much better than what I did. I just tied some on with constrictor knots. It held for awhile but eventually came loose

[fiveonomo]

Poca, I am knot challenged, what knot (the loop) are you using in the guy line that the shock cord is running through?
It looks like a bowline on the end, the shock cord looks like a double fisherman knot but how did you get the loops (2 of them) in the guy line? Am I making sense? I really like the way yours looks clean and I am going to attempt to make them. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[rockclimber]

Those are alpine butterfly knots. They are very easy to tie. Grab the rope with two fingers where you want the loop and twist clockwise twice. The wrap the bight under the twists you just made and through the middle of the twists. When you open up the twist to pass the bight through you will see an "x" where the lines cross, that's how you'll know you did it right... it's easier to see with pictures, but I'm at work now... I'm sure there's a good tutorial online. I've seen other ways to tie it, but this is the simplest.

[goobie]

Thanks for the replies regarding using paracord. I guess my real question is am I correct in saying that because the lines are auto-tensioning that the stretch from the paracord would no longer be an issue?

I would think you'd be trying to make up for the tarp stretch AND paracord stretch. Fighting it from "both ends".

Many people have paracord on hand and want to use what they have, myself included, but there are many better materials available running a wide range of price points. Zing It/Lash It really are worth the price. 50' from Dutch runs you about $13.

[fiveonomo]

Rockclimber, thanks for the info brother, I really appreciate it. Gonna do a search now.

[rockclimber]

I would think you'd be trying to make up for the tarp stretch AND paracord stretch. Fighting it from "both ends".

Many people have paracord on hand and want to use what they have, myself included, but there are many better materials available running a wide range of price points. Zing It/Lash It really are worth the price. 50' from Dutch runs you about $13.


I get where you're coming from, but I needed about 85' of cord and would have had to spend $26, instead I got 100' of paracord for $9 (with free shipping). I actually tested this overnight last weekend and it worked perfectly. The stretch of the paracord in this application is negligible. In fact, after a full night you couldn't tell the difference in the shock cord length (I used a non-stretch tarp to eliminate that variable). And as a bonus, if I need to replace any of my guy lines I can do it cheaply without worrying about negative side effects since I now know it works.

So, in my opinion, it is complete overkill to spend money on relatively expensive non-stretch cord when you can really use anything and get the same results, especially since it's a low strength application.

[fiveonomo]

Found it on YouTube, thanks Rockclimber it's pretty easy.

[rockclimber]

No problem, five! By the way, the knots on the end actually look like perfection loops (also very easy to tie), which is what I used on mine as well. The nice thing about them is they tighten up so well that you can snip the tail off completely and it won't come undone. Looks a little nicer that way.

[fiveonomo]

Cool, I thought they were just bowlins ......you say perfection loops. Gonna check them out now. Thanks.

[fiveonomo]

Got it Rockclimber, thanks again buddy!

[cbbr]

And I'm off to find shock cord... Great thread.

[poca]

Yep, Rockclimber is right. Perfection loops on the ends (I just like the way they look) and butterflies for the loops that hold the shock cord.

[fiveonomo]

Very nice poca, that's how I am gonna make mine. Is there a method or a certain way you make them? That's confusing. What I'm asking I guess is there a certain length of shock cord and how much slack is in the actual guy line where the shock cord is? Does that make sense?

[rockclimber]

What I did for mine was started with a 100' spool and tied a perfection loop. Then tied my alpine butterflies about 10" apart. Threaded a 12" piece of shock cord through the alpine butterfly loops and tied it with double fishermans and then measured 5' from the second alpine butterfly to the end, then cut/burn. Used the first as a template for the rest.

Alternatively, you could start with ~7' precut and do the same process, but I wasn't sure how much cord the knots would take and wanted to end up with roughly 6' guylines.

[rockclimber]

Also, make sure to pull the double fishermans really tight to take out all the stretch of the shock cord at the knots.

[poca]

Yes, I used 12" of shock cord for each one, which ends up being just over a 4" long loop once its tied. Then I left 8" between the base of the two butterfly knots (I made the loops pretty small). All put together the guy line takes over just before the max stretch of the shock cord.

[William36]

maybe i am a simpleton, but why not just put a shock cord loop in the line anywhere???

What is the difference??

[rockclimber]

I don't see any reason why you couldn't. This way looks nice though

[BLZ2DWL]

These worked great! Thanks!

[schaapj]

Solved all my saggy tarp problems! Thanks for the great thread!

-schaapj

[hawghangar]

maybe i am a simpleton, but why not just put a shock cord loop in the line anywhere???

What is the difference??

Echoing this thought...why not just place a 6" diameter loop of shock cord to each tarp corner loop? Then you can either tie your guyline direct to the shock cord or direct to the tarp loop - depending on the desired application. This seems too simple - any reason it won't work?

[seanholio]

maybe i am a simpleton, but why not just put a shock cord loop in the line anywhere???

What is the difference??

Shock cord fails sooner and more often than typical guyline cordage (zing it, tripteeze, etc), and is most likely to fail on the upwind side when the wind is blowing. If your loop breaks, your tarp will be flapping around. Mr. Murphy dictates that this will happen at three am, during a rain storm, when you are deeply asleep, and the affected loop will be the one that allows the rain to get at your equipment.

If you set it up in parallel, as shown in this thread, when the shock cord breaks, the guyline is still attached to both tarp and stake. It may flap a little, but you can mend that more quickly than having to retie one end of your setup. A little more work at home foils Mr. Murphy on the trail.

[bkautzman89]

Not sure if it's been asked, but can this method be used with the figure 9 tensioners? I use those currently, and I like them, but I also like the idea of my tarp staying tight. I guess I could just go out and find out on my own

[seanholio]

Not sure if it's been asked, but can this method be used with the figure 9 tensioners? I use those currently, and I like them, but I also like the idea of my tarp staying tight. I guess I could just go out and find out on my own

There's nothing about this that would prevent you from using a Figure9.

[bkautzman89]

That's what i was thinking, but I was afraid that the combination wouldn't work. Like maybe the figure 9 would tension the line to much. I'm just curious what people think. I'll give it a try this weekend. See how it goes.

[hammock_monk]

Wow, I'm bumping this thread because it's going to save me a bunch of work on the tensioners for my new tarp! I tied the last ones with cinch knots and I was thinking about cool-looking surgical tubing, but after hearing about it freezing in cold temps I'd rather stick with shock cord. And the youngblood method is so simple and elegant! I'm very happy to have found this thread and hope others will now enjoy it too.

[Hangandy]

I don't know if this is covered elsewhere, but it is easy as stink to make your own Jacks R Better STLs (Self-Tensioning Line).

1. I use 6 ft of Zing-It for my line which is available cheap from Dutchware.

2. Tie a small loop (i" di.) in one one end (I actually add some shrinktube over the loose ends to clean it up.

3. Tie a double knot about 1-2 inches below the knot.

4. Slide roughly 4-5 inches of surgical tube over the line and then milk 1-1.5" of it over the knot.

5. Use a small zapstrap to pinch and hold the tube just above the knot.

6. Milk the tube back over the knot.

7. Stretch the remaining 4-5" of tube down the line, tie a knot 1.5" above the end of where the tube stretches.

8. You can release the pull in the tube while you tie another double knot at your mark.

9. Restretch and then milk the tube over the lower knot. Repeat steps 4,5, and 6.

Your line should be done. For an added bonus take a 4 inch piece of line from you Zing-it and tie it into a loop. Use the loop and prussik it to your STL. This can then be used to adjust the line to meet your stake.

Note, this is simply how I copied JRB's design. I believe his uses a constrictor knot for under the tarp adjustment, but that would be way too much work for me.

Okay, I have a few updates to this.

1. Don't just use any surgical tubing. Look (on EBay) for green Theraband. It's just the right thickness for perfect tension.
2. Place your first of the two knots for the tube holding very close to your top loop. This will help when you are staking your tarp low.
3. I highly recommend adding Line-locs (Dutch sells them) for adjusting the lines. With Zingit get the small ones. I like the Glow in the dark ones.

[ntxkayakr]

Wow, I'm bumping this thread because it's going to save me a bunch of work on the tensioners for my new tarp! I tied the last ones with cinch knots and I was thinking about cool-looking surgical tubing, but after hearing about it freezing in cold temps I'd rather stick with shock cord. And the youngblood method is so simple and elegant! I'm very happy to have found this thread and hope others will now enjoy it too.

All shock cord and similar materials should be replace every few years especially if you store them in a non-climate controlled place. However, some retailers sell "Extreme Weather Shock Cord" 1/8" for 25cents/ft at tentpoletechnologies.com for example. I have never tried this brand but would like to hear from those who have.

Also mentioned was the heavy duty Thera-Band Resistive Latex Exercise Band (Green) about $14 for 6 yards from Amazon prime including shipping if you pay that annual fee. Also, i have never tried this on a tarp but these bands break on me a lot! A tiny abrasion is all it takes to get them started. Physical Therapist told me to stop making excuses and buy a roll or 2.

Hope this helps, report back please, we all like options not just facts. Facts are boring.

[kwiktech]

Shock cord fails sooner and more often than typical guyline cordage (zing it, tripteeze, etc), and is most likely to fail on the upwind side when the wind is blowing. If your loop breaks, your tarp will be flapping around. Mr. Murphy dictates that this will happen at three am, during a rain storm, when you are deeply asleep, and the affected loop will be the one that allows the rain to get at your equipment.

If you set it up in parallel, as shown in this thread, when the shock cord breaks, the guyline is still attached to both tarp and stake. It may flap a little, but you can mend that more quickly than having to retie one end of your setup. A little more work at home foils Mr. Murphy on the trail.

Sweet i'm going to give it a go...

[bkautzman89]

I went to rei to get some shock cord, and I noticed that some had more tension(harder to pull on) than others. I know to look for stuff with at least 100% stretch. But would I/we want want the stuff with lots of tension or very little? I'm concerned that the stuff with high tension would possibly tear the tarp, or be prone to launching my steaks.

[clean]

Isn't any shock cord going to have less tension than zing-it?

[gmcttr]

...or be prone to launching my steaks.

Never attach your steaks to the tarp guylines. Keep them in the cooler until ready to cook.:jj:

[bkautzman89]

Sorry, wrong steak. I meant stake. Stupid phone.

[12trysomething]

I have only used the 100% stuff. I try and make 4" loops of shock cord with 8" between the loops in my zing-it guy lines. This way the loop is maxed out when the zing-it takes over. When I tighten my guy lines the shock cord stretches to a 6-7 inch loop and has a couple of inches of "keep taunt" in it.

I hope this makes sense and helps.

[bkautzman89]

Yeah it does. Maybe I'll just get both and see what happens. I'm thinking the less taught stuff might be better, considering I'm switching to 1.1 mm guy lines.

[BBST]

Very cool.

Made a set of the surgical tubing tensioners that just disintegrated when I pulled them out of storage.

Can't believe I have not seen these before.

[goobie]

Well that just sucks!!

[Koolranch]

I just got 500' from amazon to do some DIY for my motorcycle. Thanks for all the tips.

[DaleT]

Just made a set of the youngblood style for my marmot ajax 3 after a very droopy fly this weekend, gonna make some for my 10x10 camo tarp tomorrow if the weather holds off.We got 3 days of October rain coming on Wednesday, might be a good test for them.

[GreatBigDave]

Here's my take on self-tensioning guy lines. Shock cord cored Zing-It. These should be as strong as the Brummel eye and have no knots or loops to get snagged.
96713
Tools and parts: 12" 14ga copper wire fid for opening the rope, large needle for picking strands out for the taper and passing the line through itself, 6" 24ga wire fid for burying line. 4" piece of 1/8" shock cord, 6' piece of Zing-It.
96714
Milk the cover of the shock cord by holding one end and stretching out the shock cord sliding your fingers from where you're holding it to the free end. 3 or 4 times should yeild 3/8"-1/2" of cover past the loose end. The Zing-It gets a Brummel eye splice on one end (4", big enough to pass the hank of line through) and a back splice on the other end. There are plenty of good descriptions of these splices here and on other sites.
96716
Open 12" of the line past the eye’s bury and pull the wire fid through the line. Thread the cover of the shock cord through the wire fid up to the elastic core and fold it back over the shock cord.
96717
Milk the Zing-It onto the shock cord by pushing it off the fid onto the shock cord. Be careful not to pull directly on the shock cord or it will stretch and slide right off the fid. Once the loosened end of the shock cord is inside the Zing-It, continue burying it by pushing the Zing-It to the shock cord then pinching the Zing-It and stretching the shock cord inside. Let go and start again when you get to the point where the shock cord enters the Zing-It. Continue milking the shock cord into the Zing-It this way until it's completely inside. Milk the remainder of the 12" section of Zing-It onto the shock cord core, remove the wire fid, and trim the shock cord's cover if necessary. Smooth the Zing-It over the ends of the shock cord core.
96718
12" of Zing-It will cover 4" of shock cord and stretch to 8".
96719
Thanks for looking.

[clean]

Whoa.

That's cool.

[12trysomething]

Wow wow great job. If I am understanding correctly, the shock cord won't move due to being in the zing it, correct?

[mountain_man_mike]

I simply tied a 12" piece of shock cord (scavenged from an old tent pole) to the tarp tie out and the zing it to the shock cord with the quick clamp for the no tie loop tensioner. It does a great job of handling the wind, sag, etc. I recommend checking to make sure the shock cord still has enough stretch to merit including it in the project though.

[GreatBigDave]

... the shock cord won't move due to being in the zing it, correct? It seems pretty well trapped in the Zing-It. I've stretched and released a couple dozen times. The ends of the shock cord bury tighten up and stay tight but the middle stays stretchy.

[GreatBigDave]

Correction!
... 4" piece of 1/8" shock cord ...The shock cord used is 3/32", not 1/8". My bad. Sorry.

[jkc107]

GreatBigDave - Great idea. I'm planning on doing this for my lines now. Are you using 1.75mm or 2.2mm Zing-It line to fit the 1/8 shock cord around? I'm wondering if 3/32 shock cord will fit inside a 1.75 Zing-It line.

[GreatBigDave]

It's the 1.75mm Zing-It. I was wrong in my original post (see my correction above); I used 3/32" shock cord. A longer wire fid than the 6" shown in the pictures would make burying the shock cord eaisier.

[RedStix]

Nice job, GreatBigDave. I love the innovation!

[jkc107]

Awesome. Thanks for the info! Can't wait to try this over the weekend :D

[GreatBigDave]

You may want to consider taping your fore finger and thumb, milking the shock cord into the Zing-It takes some pressure and persistence. Let us know how they come out.

[jkc107]

Ahh I see. Good point. I should be receiving all my supplies tomorrow. Looks like I'll be having a busy weekend :D

[jkc107]

GreatBigDave - Alright. I've been at this for two hours now. My fingers are completely raw and I haven't even finished a single line yet. Are there any other tips you can share? As of right now I am completely convinced that 3/32nd shock cord is IMPOSSIBLE to fit through 1.75mm Zing-It. Help me pleaseeeeeeee

[jkc107]

I should mention that I actually was able to get about 2" of the shock cord in but then my Zing-It just didn't budge after that. Ow, it hurts typing with my raw fingers :(

[GreatBigDave]

Wow, I'm sorry I didn't see this 'til now.
I bunched up the Zing-It on the wire fid and push that onto the shock cord. Once the hollowed shock cord tail is buried then I milked the Zing-It over the shock cord by stretching the shock cord inside the Zing-It. I'll try to make a video.

[ShellHammock]

Tying a clove hitch with the guyline and using the tip end of shock cord as the 'toggle' works great too. Only works when the shock cord diameter is bigger than that of the guyline, however.

edit: pays to read the thread before posting. the very first post shows the clove hitch method. the spliced version looks very nice and clean.

[CBX133]

Maybe I missed something, but what would be the main difference to the original ways in the OP to make these lines, and the way Shug does then in his video?

In Shugs video, he simply puts the piece of shock cord strait inline with the tarp lines. In the examples in the OP they are essentially doubled up in some manner essentially using two shock cord lengths.

Hope this makes sense, I am just curious if doing it the single shock cord length like Shug does will work just as well.

Thanks

-Sam G

[JohnD]

Havent read all 21 pages so forgive me if I repeat what someone else has done.

I simply use two seperate loops one is bunjee cord and the other is a safety line should the bungy overstretch or let go. Then larks head as per usuall individually.

[Burg54]

I replied quite some time ago about these tensioners. They do work well however I have found that tying the shock cord loop into the tie-out line is really an unnecessary complexity and actually is more tangle prone. If you are using good quality 1/8 inch dia. shock cord all you need to do is a tie a small loop of shock cord to each of your four tarp tie-outs. Then tie your tie-out lines directly to the shock cord loops. When pitching the tarp nice and tight it usually stretches the shock cord 70% to 90% of the way. I've been doing it this way all year now on the same shock cord loops and they are holding up just fine. Your tarp tie out lines are going to break or your tarp is going to tear before the shock cord is going to break in gale force winds.

This is exactly what I do as well. Shock cord loops larks headed on all 4 corners and ZingIt! guy lines larks headed to the shock cord loop. Good to go.

[Intimidator]

This is exactly what I do as well. Shock cord loops larks headed on all 4 corners and ZingIt! guy lines larks headed to the shock cord loop. Good to go.
Thanks for this !!

[Nicolai]

Perhaps someone here can explain to me, what the advantage of doing it like in the thread instead of just like this https://youtu.be/kZEeWGJk1f8?t=303 ?

[Theguywitheyebrows]

this is glorious headchange! love the self-contained, anti-loss aspect of this!! one small adjustment i recommend is the Alpine Butterfly Loop as the knot for the loop at about 12" because it bears the load more evenly on the cordage, lessening the strain it takes. doesn't really matter much for a tarp i guess, but im all about using the best knots, techniques, methods, and so forth. think i'll make mine short so that i can add appropriate cordage for the locale's tie-off availability.

http://www.animatedknots.com/alpinebutterfly/index.php?Categ=climbing&LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

[pyrrha1]

Would a straight piece of shock cord attached to zing it using nail knots work or would they slip?

[pyrrha1]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/18/e04d4833240220256d1c57b0bb088cd8.jpg

[tightwad]

this is glorious headchange! love the self-contained, anti-loss aspect of this!! one small adjustment i recommend is the Alpine Butterfly Loop as the knot for the loop at about 12" because it bears the load more evenly on the cordage, lessening the strain it takes. doesn't really matter much for a tarp i guess, but im all about using the best knots, techniques, methods, and so forth. think i'll make mine short so that i can add appropriate cordage for the locale's tie-off availability.

http://www.animatedknots.com/alpinebutterfly/index.php?Categ=climbing&LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com



Thanks for the link! I am enjoying learning the right knots and it helped in understanding this discussion as well. Former terrible Boy Scout now trying to Coach Varsity Scouts...hunger for knowledge!

[Theguywitheyebrows]

thats the spot for knots. grade A1 instructions. also, www.theultimatehang.com has a GREAT website (and even better, a handy book) detailing "hammocking 101", with easy to follow instructions and diagrams and such. there are knots there as well that i can't remember seeing on knots by grog. the ultimate hang book is like $15, and i'd recommend it as a super easy intro. it hooked me and made me start hammocking fo'real.

[huntaholic123]

Lots of great information! Thanks

[MikekiM]

Has anyone else been able to make this approach work? I am about to do the theraband style tensioners, but I really like this method as well.. Nice and clean, no clutter, not knots.



Here's my take on self-tensioning guy lines. Shock cord cored Zing-It. These should be as strong as the Brummel eye and have no knots or loops to get snagged.
96713
Tools and parts: 12" 14ga copper wire fid for opening the rope, large needle for picking strands out for the taper and passing the line through itself, 6" 24ga wire fid for burying line. 4" piece of 1/8" shock cord, 6' piece of Zing-It.
96714
Milk the cover of the shock cord by holding one end and stretching out the shock cord sliding your fingers from where you're holding it to the free end. 3 or 4 times should yeild 3/8"-1/2" of cover past the loose end. The Zing-It gets a Brummel eye splice on one end (4", big enough to pass the hank of line through) and a back splice on the other end. There are plenty of good descriptions of these splices here and on other sites.
96716
Open 12" of the line past the eye’s bury and pull the wire fid through the line. Thread the cover of the shock cord through the wire fid up to the elastic core and fold it back over the shock cord.
96717
Milk the Zing-It onto the shock cord by pushing it off the fid onto the shock cord. Be careful not to pull directly on the shock cord or it will stretch and slide right off the fid. Once the loosened end of the shock cord is inside the Zing-It, continue burying it by pushing the Zing-It to the shock cord then pinching the Zing-It and stretching the shock cord inside. Let go and start again when you get to the point where the shock cord enters the Zing-It. Continue milking the shock cord into the Zing-It this way until it's completely inside. Milk the remainder of the 12" section of Zing-It onto the shock cord core, remove the wire fid, and trim the shock cord's cover if necessary. Smooth the Zing-It over the ends of the shock cord core.
96718
12" of Zing-It will cover 4" of shock cord and stretch to 8".
96719
Thanks for looking.

[Shug]

Has anyone else been able to make this approach work? I am about to do the theraband style tensioners, but I really like this method as well.. Nice and clean, no clutter, not knots.
I use them all the time.......went from surgical tube to these.
Shug



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GQPY5BuyPI

[GreatBigDave]

Has anyone else been able to make this approach work? I am about to do the theraband style tensioners, but I really like this method as well.. Nice and clean, no clutter, not knots.I may be unique. One other HF member tried and didn't get very far. I learned that I really don't know how to make an instructional video.
The trick for me is to push the zing-it onto the shock cord then milk it over the shock cord by pinching the bunched up zing-it where the shock cord sheath folds through the wire fid then pulling the bunched up zing-it over the SC with the other hand stretching the SC within then releasing the first hand allowing the zing-it to slide over the shock cord.
I seldom use these lines as I mostly camp with scouts and use reflectorized line to ward off the scout feet. The reflectorized line I have has a stranded core. I tie a LineLok 3 to each tie-out point with shock cord and run a length of reflectorized line through the adjustment channel of the LL3. I tie a 4" loop in the stake end of the line and larks-head that to the stakes. If you use tensioners, be sure to tie your stakes as they will launch when they come out under tension.

[MikekiM]

I use them all the time.......went from surgical tube to these.
Shug



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GQPY5BuyPI

Thanks Shug... My bad.. I was referring to the technique where the shock cord is milked inside the Zingit.

Been meaning to ask this.. When you setup in porch mode, you have the foot end higher than the head. I can see keeping things close and tight at the head end but I would think that having rain run off to the foot end would be better. Seems like a catch-22. Do you do that intentionally, and if so, why?