View Full Version : Ridge Line
Toothless
05-19-2008, 21:12
Any suggestions for 'ridge line' material that offers minimal stretch? Also, best source for the line.
Thanks ahead of time!
headchange4u
05-20-2008, 08:46
I use Amsteel 12 7/64 or Amsteel Blue from here (http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e827.asp). The link provided has all kinds or rope that can be used for a ridge line.
FanaticFringer
05-20-2008, 15:43
I use Amsteel 12 7/64 or Amsteel Blue from here (http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e827.asp). The link provided has all kinds or rope that can be used for a ridge line.
That's what I use. Great stuff.
Toothless
05-20-2008, 21:27
Thanks for the referral. I've ordered...
Is the Amsteel kind of 'crunchy' or is it soft? I might have some already...
headchange4u
05-21-2008, 16:38
It's soft.
What about 550 paracord, or is it too elastic?
angrysparrow
05-28-2008, 21:15
What about 550 paracord, or is it too elastic?
Yes, too stretchy...and JustJeff has reported having it break on him in that application.
Yes, too stretchy...and JustJeff has reported having it break on him in that application.
Interesting. Thanks. I'm still in the experimenting stage so tips like these are invaluable.
Will the Air-core Plus from BPL work for a ridgeline?
slowhike
06-01-2008, 21:42
Will the Air-core Plus from BPL work for a ridgeline?
Yes, but someone here has found a much cheaper source for the same cord if it's what i'm thinking about.
Maybe they will post a link.
That is probably from Jump Shack...I have purchased some from both places. Jump shack sells it by the foot so if you can't use 50' it may be a better source. I bought a 50' spool from BPL so I have plenty for this use.
l1ranger
06-11-2008, 18:04
I was looking at the Amsteel site, and had a question.
are the prices listed per foot?
Yes, too stretchy...and JustJeff has reported having it break on him in that application.
It might not have been real 550 Paracord. There's plenty of knockoffs out there. I've been using 550 for years now and never had it break in all I've asked of it. That said, I've ridgelined it to hold up my bugnetting but I'll be picking something else up that doesn't stretch. Thanks for the Amsteel info.
koaloha05
06-25-2008, 17:32
Received the weekly APS e-newsletter. 7/64" x 50 ft at $9.30. Other sizes & lengths also on sale.
l1ranger
06-25-2008, 21:07
gah, and i just paid full price! not that thats a bad deal
Hello
Splat..
I agree completely...
If it was real 7 strand 550,, I have a hard time seeing it break under that kind of load.. I use 550 all the time and it is very strong...
ttyle
Eric
O/ST
Greg Dunlap
09-20-2008, 07:02
REI sells the 3mm Bluewater cord in 50 foot lengths for $8.55.
You can see it here: http://www.rei.com/product/729594
Bluewater rates this at 400lbf SEE HERE (http://www.bluewaterropes.com/home/productsinfo.asp?Channel=Recreation&Group=&GroupKey=&Category=Accessory%20Cord&CategoryKey=&ProdKey=52)
Just Jeff
09-20-2008, 08:01
I cut my 550 cord right off a parachute, so it was the real stuff. And it was still in good condition, not degraded or anything. But it broke at the knot while being used as hammock suspension, not as a ridgeline...significant difference in load there. Still, I found 550 cord too elastic to use as a ridgeline.
I used BPL AirCore for ridgeline as well. The AirCore 2 was strong enough but it's so thin that it was cutting into the supports over time. The AirCore Plus worked well, but it's pretty expensive overkill for a ridgeline...worked for me b/c I had a spool and just used a length I had already cut for suspension. AirCore Plus is great cord for supports if you don't mind them being white.
I have had trouble with AirCore + holding knots because it is so slick. Does the Amsteel hold a knot better?? Any suggestions for getting the AirCore + to hold a knot? I am about 285# so I do put some stress on this stuff.
Ramblinrev
09-24-2008, 05:27
I have had the Amsteel Blue slip its knots a number of times. I have taken to leaving quite long tails or melting the daylights out of the stuff. In fact, I am considering whipping critical knots to keep them from slipping. I like the amsteel for its weight and strength, but it can be a bear to keep a knot in.
GrizzlyAdams
09-24-2008, 05:37
I have had the Amsteel Blue slip its knots a number of times. I have taken to leaving quite long tails or melting the daylights out of the stuff. In fact, I am considering whipping critical knots to keep them from slipping. I like the amsteel for its weight and strength, but it can be a bear to keep a knot in.
I've had similar experience with other single braid dyneema cord. But my trusty bowline has always held OK....that said, for safety I tie a stopper knot (e.g. figure-8) at the working end, just in case.
Grizz
Ramblinrev
09-24-2008, 06:15
It was an end bowline that went out on me the other day. Needless to say I felt very let down.
GrizzlyAdams
09-24-2008, 06:50
It was an end bowline that went out on me the other day. Needless to say I felt very let down.
Tell me it isn't true! My trusted friend the bowline!
Grizz
Ramblinrev
09-24-2008, 06:57
Tell me it isn't true! My trusted friend the bowline!
Grizz
'Tis true. I was quite surprised. It was one of the bowlines tied to the suspension ring of my wife's Bridge. Catastrophic corner failure resulted in the simultaneous displacement of spreader bar and occupant (fortunately me, not my wife). :(
Spectra lines have low friction. All knots use the lines coeficient of friction to hold. High friction natural lines can use simple knots because their coeficient of friction is high. Low CF lines need more complex knots that put more of the line to work. Some knots have inherently high friction.
The Bowline is one example of an inherently high-friction knot that folks have mentioned. As Ramblinrev points out, it is not foolproof. I would like to know precisely it failed, Rev.
The Trucker's Hitch is another effective, high-friction knot suitable for Spectra when the loop is made with a Figure-8 and the bitter end (the short end of the line) is finished off with 2 Half Hitches. The Trucker's Hitch has the advantage of being easily untied and adjusted for length. It's disadvantage is, it weakens the line more than the bowline. However, with Spectra's excess strength, the choice of knot is not particularly important for the 'ridge line' or 'static line'.
Ramblinrev
09-24-2008, 12:34
I would like to know precisely it failed, Rev.
Obviously I did not eye witness the failure as I was not watching the knot, but as near as I can tell the line slipped and untied. It was not broken. The rope seemed to be the same length. I have had this happen several times and it appears the line just simply snakes through the loops backwards. The bend where the line wrapped the ring was evident. The cord beyond that bend seemed to have been pressed flat as though being pulled through a stress point. Of course once the bunny is yanked out of the hole the knot fails completely and catastrophically (i.e. suddenly without warning).
TiredFeet
09-24-2008, 15:46
Obviously I did not eye witness the failure as I was not watching the knot, but as near as I can tell the line slipped and untied. It was not broken. The rope seemed to be the same length. I have had this happen several times and it appears the line just simply snakes through the loops backwards. The bend where the line wrapped the ring was evident. The cord beyond that bend seemed to have been pressed flat as though being pulled through a stress point. Of course once the bunny is yanked out of the hole the knot fails completely and catastrophically (i.e. suddenly without warning).
Rev - how do you have the bunny going around the tree. Ashley, as in The Ashley Book of Knots, states that having the free end come out inside the loop is more secure than having the free end come out outside the loop.
Do you always tie in the same way or is it kind of random?
I used to have the bunny go around the tree randomly, until I read Ahsley's comment. Now I always have the free end come out inside the loop.
Ramblinrev
09-24-2008, 16:33
ok... in all the gruesome detail I can muster. I've been tying these suckers for well onto forty years which is not to say anything but it is almost rote by now.
loop the rope... the rope loops so the standing end (ie the tree) is underneath the intersection.
Bunny jumps out of the hole to the right side of the tree and darts around the tree from my visual right to my visual left. (The tree's left to the tree's right i guess).
Farmer Mac Gregor scares the daylights out of the bunny and he darts back down the hole following the same footprints he left... but in reverse.
Farmer Mac Gregor, ticked off at the little rascal grabs the tree and pulls one way. Bunny digs in with all four paws in the direction of travel using the origianl footprints as traction and pulls the other. It is a stand off and the both get tired at the same time and the knot is done.
Now... I'm not sure how that relates to your question. But that's the way I tie it. Complete with stupid little mouthing things as I do so.
GrizzlyAdams
09-24-2008, 16:46
...
Farmer Mac Gregor scares the daylights out of the bunny and he darts back down the hole following the same footprints he left... but in reverse.
...
I originally thought this meant you are doing it as Ashley would suggest, but just discovered that the way you lay the loop to begin with matters.
Grizz
Ramblinrev
09-24-2008, 17:53
O... so I am confused. Am I doing it the way Ashley suggests? If not... what _does_ he suggest?
Edit: I just checked with www.animatedknots.com and I tie it the way they show in the animation. They do mention the alternative at the bottom of the page but that is not how I do it.
GrizzlyAdams
09-24-2008, 18:11
animatedknots shows the approved way. The other variant goes by "Cowboy bowline" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_bowline), a.k.a. Dutch bowline.
I hadn't know until this year by reading up on knots thanks to HF that there was a difference.
As a matter of habit I tie a stopper knot on the working end of most any knot I tie. Incidents like yours re-enforce the habit!
Grizz
Ramblinrev
09-24-2008, 18:19
In reading the Wikipedia listing for Bowline accessed from your above link to the dutch bowline it states that the bowline may be loosened and untie when repeatedly loaded/unloaded and jostled or shaken around. Sounds like it may not be the best knot for attaching a line to suspension rings. Perhaps a clovehitch with saftey half hitches would be a better choice.
Edit: Scratch that. Animnated knots says the clove hitch can slip easily although I have never seen that happen in the years I have used it. Although most of my use has been for the recommended application on the page... that of hanging theatrical scenery.
warbonnetguy
09-24-2008, 19:45
I have had trouble with AirCore + holding knots because it is so slick. Does the Amsteel hold a knot better?? Any suggestions for getting the AirCore + to hold a knot? I am about 285# so I do put some stress on this stuff.
what knots are you tying?
i use the amsteel blue and have no problem with double sheetbend to webbing, or a slipped buntline hitch to a ring. also, my larks head loop is made from an overhand knot and that seems to hold well too.
warbonnetguy
09-24-2008, 20:16
you guy's should try finishing the bowline with the yosimite backup, it's pretty much the accepted way to finish the double bowline when tying climbing rope to harness.
so, when the rabbit goes around the tree he makes what i will call the top loop. to do the yosimite backup, tie the bowline, and then pass the free end back through the "top loop" and dress.
also, i always make note to dress the top loop so it is bent at a 90 degree angle (it kinda does this when it gets loaded anyway). then when i want to untie it, i just push it back/up /forward and pull a little working end through. from here, just work the slack backwards to loosen the hole. i've never had a loaded bowkine i couldn't untie in a few seconds this way.
warbonnetguy
09-24-2008, 20:21
man, if you guy's have been having bowlines slip, i'll need to really watch the overhand larks head loop as i haven't been using the amsteel very long. the vectrus 12 seemed to hold it just fine.
rev, how many nights of being weighted did that bowline have before it slipped?
Ramblinrev
09-24-2008, 21:34
rev, how many nights of being weighted did that bowline have before it slipped?
I am trying to remember. I have three hammocks that are using the amsteel and bowline knots. I have had it happen several times but I don't rightly remember which hammocks it happened with. This particular one was loaded a fair number of times for testing and then my wife slept in it at least three nights and I was testing it and had been several times so I really can't answer the question definitively. I had rather assumed if I made it through the testing, they would holdbut it seems not.
the rope loops so the standing end (ie the tree) is underneath the intersection.
I originally thought this meant you are doing it as Ashley would suggest, but just discovered that the way you lay the loop to begin with matters.
Grizz
Yes! The lay of the loop matters. Most people have bunnies. I, being difficult, have snakes. You have no idea how long it took me to learn the bowline lo, these many years ago (darn snakes).
If the standing end is on top of the loop, then the snake goes down the hole, over the root and back up the hole.
Teaching basic knots to innumerable scouts (boy and girl) finally cemented the procedure for me.