View Full Version : Pad at 58 degrees?
thatscguy
05-23-2008, 12:38
Do I need a CCF pad with an expected low of 58 degrees? Tried the pad out yesterday for the first time and at this point I am not a big can, lol so if I can go with out I am going commando.
angrysparrow
05-23-2008, 12:45
I would be very hesitant to not use any under-insulation at that temp. Most people need some insulation on the bottom of a hammock below 65-70º.
thatscguy
05-23-2008, 12:50
Thanks for the info.
Most people need some insulation on the bottom of a hammock below 65-70º.
Except neo. :D
angrysparrow
05-23-2008, 13:35
Except neo. :D
I think even Neo uses insulation at those temps...but that same insulation reportedly takes him to single digits. :rolleyes: ;)
BillyBob58
05-23-2008, 14:06
I'd say most people will use some kind of insulation below 70* and would be very uncomfortable at 58* with nothing underneath. You might want to view the thread on synthetic vs down in a hammock. It has a little test where I was quite toasty at, coincidentally, 58*, without a pad. Instead only the lower half of a Polarguard sleeping bag underneath me. Now, it was a winter bag and it is very unlikely that you would carry a bag of that weight if you were expecting it to be no lower than 58*, so most of the info is more of a theoretical nature.
However, you might have a lighter weight synthetic bag with you, and combined with wearing something like a fleece jacket, who knows- you might get by at 58* without using a pad.
A lot depends on you and how cold natured you are. I have a very hot natured buddy that got by in the Mountains of Wyoming for a week with no pad. He borrowed my back up pad one night, but he could not keep it under him so he gave up on it. He had a 15* Mountain Hardware synthetic bag. The first night was 22*, and he was pretty miserable. The other nights probably averaged lows in the 30s to lower 40s, and he got by OK. I don't think he was actually warm or comfortable, but he got by without too much complaining. He was not cold enough to bother more than one night with the pad. But the next year he had a Big Agnes bag with pad.
So if you use some kind of synthetic bag, as opposed to an top quilt with zero insulation under you, and maybe with a synthetic jacket, you MIGHT/MAYBE be OK without a pad. Probably most folks are going to need the pad.
eugeneius
05-24-2008, 09:13
Do I need a CCF pad with an expected low of 58 degrees? Tried the pad out yesterday for the first time and at this point I am not a big can, lol so if I can go with out I am going commando.
I am far short of experience compared to the majority of the frequent lurkers here, however near 60F seems pretty temperate to me! I would think a good thermal base layer of merino wool or some sort of polypro and a pair of good wool socks, a lightweight fleece jacket and a beenie would be sufficient, along with your appropriately rated sleeping bag, if sleeping in clothing doesn't bother you of course. I just finished a trip up in the Gila Wilderness and slept at an altitude above 10,000 ft and the low dipped around the freezing mark, I used a 3/4 length self-inflatable Thermarest (deflated), a bag rated to 30F and a good combo of clothing and I was toasty, with no tarp, single layer hammock and no underquilt of any sort. I think I'm pretty cold blooded too. Just my thoughts. Maybe just bring the pad in the event the chill creeps underneath you in the middle of the night, this could be a good gauge for future hangs.
Hope you figure out your set up, no pad is definitely more comfortable and natural. Try putting silicone dots along the bottom of your pad using clear silicone caulking, it keeps your pad from sliding along the silnylon.
Narwhalin
05-24-2008, 09:52
I'd say most people will use some kind of insulation below 70* and would be very uncomfortable at 58* with nothing underneath. You might want to view the thread on synthetic vs down in a hammock. It has a little test where I was quite toasty at, coincidentally, 58*, without a pad. Instead only the lower half of a Polarguard sleeping bag underneath me. Now, it was a winter bag and it is very unlikely that you would carry a bag of that weight if you were expecting it to be no lower than 58*, so most of the info is more of a theoretical nature.
Unless you are going to go read that thread, I would like to give a bit of counterpoint, here.
BB58 did get some comfort at 58* from laying on his winter synthetic bag. Tell me, are you planning on using your 0* bag to combat tempatures 60* higher than that?
However, you might have a lighter weight synthetic bag with you, and combined with wearing something like a fleece jacket, who knows- you might get by at 58* without using a pad.
Is a three pound 0* bag a "lighter weight synthetic?" I think this is misleading. Even the 15* bag in the example below is probably at least 2.5 lbs., and is serious overkill if you are going to be in temps that are 45* higher than that!
A lot depends on you and how cold natured you are. I have a very hot natured buddy that got by in the Mountains of Wyoming for a week with no pad. He borrowed my back up pad one night, but he could not keep it under him so he gave up on it. He had a 15* Mountain Hardware synthetic bag. The first night was 22*, and he was pretty miserable. The other nights probably averaged lows in the 30s to lower 40s, and he got by OK. I don't think he was actually warm or comfortable, but he got by without too much complaining. He was not cold enough to bother more than one night with the pad. But the next year he had a Big Agnes bag with pad.
See, this guy said, screw that, I want my pad back! See, this is what happens when you try to use this philosophy in the real world at temps that get closer to what the bag is rated to.
And here is the real sales pitch:
So if you use some kind of synthetic bag, as opposed to an top quilt with zero insulation under you, and maybe with a synthetic jacket, you MIGHT/MAYBE be OK without a pad. Probably most folks are going to need the pad.
Weak.
Use a pad or an underquilt for warmth underneath.
Fiddleback
05-24-2008, 10:43
I vote for the 70° limit based on my napping in the backyard on a rope hammock.:) On the other hand; a simple, 7oz, 3/8" pad can get me well below freezing, given the rest of my sleep system. Other than the issue of bulk, that's a very small price to pay for the insulation benefit.
FB
BillyBob58
05-24-2008, 10:53
Unless you are going to go read that thread, I would like to give a bit of counterpoint, here.
BB58 did get some comfort at 58* from laying on his winter synthetic bag. Tell me, are you planning on using your 0* bag to combat tempatures 60* higher than that?......................Weak.
Right, Narwhalin, just like I said:
Now, it was a winter bag and it is very unlikely that you would carry a bag of that weight if you were expecting it to be no lower than 58*, so most of the info is more of a theoretical nature.............................
However, you might have a lighter weight synthetic bag with you, and combined with wearing something like a fleece jacket, who knows- you might get by at 58* without using a pad...................
Probably most folks are going to need the pad.................
The point is that whatever top insulation he is using, if it is a synthetic bag rather than a top quilt, and if he has a fleece jacket with him, and IF he is a pretty warm sleeper, he MIGHT be OK at no lower than 58*. Considering that he is not a big fan of pads to start with. But let me repeat:
Probably most folks are going to need the pad. :rolleyes:
At 58 a CCF pad's a good idea; doesn't have to be too thick. A torso-length will do, IMHO, if you're sure it won't get a lot colder.
I used to use Wallymart's blue pad but switched to Thermarest's ridge pad. its softer and I felt it did a better job of insulating by trapping air under my sleeping bag.
It really depends upon the person. I'm generally a warm sleeper yet last night it was probably around 55 and I needed my Thermarest pad with my summer quilt. At first I didn't have the pad and my backside was getting cold from the drafts. Popped the pad in and was toasty, sometimes too warm, all night. Oops! I forgot to say that I was wearing shorts and a t-shirt. I'm looking at my Neat Sheats right now thinking of making them into an underside wind blocker.
t. I'm looking at my Neat Sheats right now thinking of making them into an underside wind blocker.
will a neat sheet block the wind?
FWIW, spent last Sun. night at 60* hanging along the Potomac River. Used my HH SS, OCF pad as designed by OEM AND emergency blanket. Used 15* Sierra Designs 800 Down bag as over quilt so my back was laying on the HH silnylon, not on top of my bag (I freeze with any other bag). Wore light weight Patagonia polypropelene long underwear and cotton crew socks, no hat.
My back felt perfect, neither warm or cold, just neutral and comfy.
I did open up the bugnetting (per 2Q's mod) for some fresh air in the middle of the night and noticed 5-10* difference and a decidedly less stuffy feeling inside my hammock. But, I was totally comfortable as described above.
It was awesome! I get it!!!!
will a neat sheet block the wind?
It's water repellent so I assume it'll block wind. I'm going to try it Thursday night.
thatscguy
05-28-2008, 09:26
In my push to not use that blue back killer (under pad), would I be safe ya think with a 20 degree bag used in peapod fashion?
What about an inexpensive ($4) emergency blanket wrapped under the hammock bottom like a diaper? Light weight, cheap, easy. Did this with my kids at 55* and they were notably warmer. I just opened up the emergency blanket, lifted each end up and tied the two corners over the ridgeline with a square knot. Repeated the same on the other end. It provided a vapor barrier and wind blocker. Just our experience for cheap and easy added warmth on those in-between temperatures.
BTW, they did also use a pad under their sleeping bags, held in place with some shock cord tied to the side loops of their sleeping bags.
What about an inexpensive ($4) emergency blanket wrapped under the hammock bottom like a diaper? Light weight, cheap, easy. Did this with my kids at 55* and they were notably warmer.
On my last camping trip with my kids, I tried using one of those $4 space blankets, they were junk. If you want to use those, get the $15 with the lanyard holes and are reuseable.
I guess the quality of those space blankets have gotten really cheap, because it did not reflect any heat. All it did was trap moisture and cause droplets to appear on the blanket.
I did not wrap it under the hammock like what you did, I tried it over to top me me, around me, under my sleeping bag, and it did nothing. The heat reflection was non-existent. The same went for my kids, they tried theirs all different kinds of ways and that cheap space blanket did not help in any way.
The temps dropped lower then expected while we were on our camping trip. Our sleeping bags were rated for the 50s, the over night temp got into the upper 40s. So we pulled out the cheap space blankets. My kids and I spent a cold night in the woods.
I think even Neo uses insulation at those temps...but that same insulation reportedly takes him to single digits. :rolleyes: ;)
i never sleep without a pad.no matter what the temp.i use a full length military issue thermareast in my claytor jungle hammock in the summer.:cool:neo
6 feet over
06-09-2008, 01:56
Do I need a CCF pad with an expected low of 58 degrees? Tried the pad out yesterday for the first time and at this point I am not a big can, lol so if I can go with out I am going commando.
Not sure why you’re not a big ‘can’ :p, but I’ve had good success with a pad. Most here will rave about underquilts. Not having used one yet, I’m not about to disagree, but the price is sure a factor. As I don’t really hike much, I’m about to try and convert a Sportsman’s Guide sleeping bag into an underquilt to give it a try. Weight is much less of an issue if you’re not carrying it several days!
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> Weight is much less of an issue if you’re not carrying it several days!
But I am. And I carry a pad. :)
Hey, have you seen those cot/tents they have for car camping now? You can put a "real" mattress in those things.
6 feet over
06-16-2008, 00:44
Hey, have you seen those cot/tents they have for car camping now? You can put a "real" mattress in those things.
I have seen them, and with a pick up truck with an 8 foot bed and a cap, I often carry much more gear than I need. That said, I’ve sunk too much money, time and effort getting my hang set up right to go and buy one of those! :rolleyes:
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