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View Full Version : Whipping for suspension and ridgeline attatchment



Narwhalin
06-26-2008, 09:31
After looking at Jeff's whipping tutorial (http://tothewoods.net/HomemadeHammock2.html), I came up with an idea that will surely not work! But, I thought I would throw it out there...

My idea is to whip the hammock, and leave enough rope coming out of each side of the hammock to use one end to tie off to ring buckles, and the other to form a loop for a removable ridgeline. Can anyone see any major malfunctions with this idea? Thank you for your help!

GrizzlyAdams
06-26-2008, 09:47
After looking at Jeff's whipping tutorial (http://tothewoods.net/HomemadeHammock2.html), I came up with an idea that will surely not work! But, I thought I would throw it out there...

My idea is to whip the hammock, and leave enough rope coming out of each side of the hammock to use one end to tie off to ring buckles, and the other to form a loop for a removable ridgeline. Can anyone see any major malfunctions with this idea? Thank you for your help!

in the DIY hammock I've been playing with of late, I made a loop of Vectran 12 which I used to hold the folds with a prussik knot, with the "free" loop used to connect to the biner. The prussik seemed to tighten up and hold the folds even after leaving the hammock.

I later did a more traditional whipping...why?...I dunno, perhaps bowing to the wisdom of the ages. But my limited experience suggests your idea can be made to work.

Grizz

angrysparrow
06-26-2008, 10:04
I agree that it could be made to work. However, I fail to see a benefit to that approach other than an aesthetic one; and there is one potential downside.

What happens if one part of your cording fails? Say you somehow cut/broke the length going from the whipping to the rings. You might be in danger of also losing (or at least having to also replace) not just that length, but also the whipping and ridge loop. If they failed and were individual cords, then you only replace the failed piece of cord, not redo that whole end of your hammock.

Maybe I'm just being thick, though. Is there a benefit that I'm not grasping?

Narwhalin
06-26-2008, 10:30
What happens if one part of your cording fails? Say you somehow cut/broke the length going from the whipping to the rings. You might be in danger of also losing (or at least having to also replace) not just that length, but also the whipping and ridge loop. If they failed and were individual cords, then you only replace the failed piece of cord, not redo that whole end of your hammock.

Technically, if something fails, I am likely to rip a large hole in the hammock bed when I hit the ground! But you make a good point here. Putting all the eggs in one basket means if something fails, you have to redo everything.

However, I don't think it would be that hard to put humpty back together. If you are tying an alpine loop (http://www.animatedknots.com/alpinebutterfly/index.php) you can just put your hand on the whipping, and use that as a guide as to where your loop will be. The location of the whipping would have to be the same, along with the number of wraps.


Maybe I'm just being thick, though. Is there a benefit that I'm not grasping?

I thought it looks good, reminds me of the through the whipping ridgeline that I liked from my diy HH. I also like the idea of everything being together instead of independent. Reason? I don't know! :D Just something I thought of...

angrysparrow
06-26-2008, 10:34
I also like the idea of everything being together instead of independent.

Fair enough. :)

Narwhalin
06-26-2008, 21:19
Well, thanks for the input, fellas! :) I guess the way to settle this is the old "trust fall." I will whip up my test hammock, and give it a go sometime soon! :cool:

Narwhalin
06-26-2008, 21:26
I just thought of something...

Could I get a larger diameter rope to use for this, and splice it at both ends? Would the ring/buckle still function okay?

Narwhalin
06-27-2008, 09:12
The reason I want to do this now is I think it would look nice to have the two spliced loops coming from the whipping. I really need your input, guys! Any thoughs you have will be appriciated!

I thought yet another question:

I would like to make the ridgeline removable. However, if the ridgeline is removed, the tree end will be pulling the loops inside the whipping towards the tree. Is it possible that the whipping could be pulled apart under that force from one side?

Also, from above, if I spliced the end of the rope for the support, will the ring/buckle system still work okay?

Thanks! :)

GrizzlyAdams
06-27-2008, 09:35
The reason I want to do this now is I think it would look nice to have the two spliced loops coming from the whipping. I really need your input, guys! Any thoughs you have will be appriciated!

I thought yet another question:

I would like to make the ridgeline removable. However, if the ridgeline is removed, the tree end will be pulling the loops inside the whipping towards the tree. Is it possible that the whipping could be pulled apart under that force from one side?

Also, from above, if I spliced the end of the rope for the support, will the ring/buckle system still work okay?

Thanks! :)

From the point of view of attaching the loop to the ring or cinch buckle, if the loop is spliced then to get a prussik on the hardware you'll need to attach the hardware before whipping, and to change it out you'll have to undo the whipping. But sure, so long as the spliced loop is big enough you should have no problem.

As for the question about the ridgeline, I can't say. Prussiks are usually used in way that both ends coming out of the knot are under tension. But I bet it would be easy to test with some cord before commiting to the design.

just my $0.05

Grizz

Narwhalin
06-27-2008, 09:55
From the point of view of attaching the loop to the ring or cinch buckle, if the loop is spliced then to get a prussik on the hardware you'll need to attach the hardware before whipping, and to change it out you'll have to undo the whipping. But sure, so long as the spliced loop is big enough you should have no problem.

I am trying to visualize this in my head...

So, you are saying I could put a prussik on the hardware near the end of the rope, then take the end of the rope and use it to splice into itself? This would effectively create the "both ends" you describe below, right?

I was actually asking about just running the rope around the hardware once, and then splice. Basically a spliced loop around the rings. Is there a problem with the rope not cinching up to the rings? What about for the trucker's hitch or SLS that use one ring instead of two? (Forgive my ignorance, please!)


As for the question about the ridgeline, I can't say. Prussiks are usually used in way that both ends coming out of the knot are under tension. But I bet it would be easy to test with some cord before commiting to the design.

Another (similar) question is would the ridgeline keep the same effect from happening? The force on the ridgeline is about 1/2 that of the supports that would be on the other side of the whipping, so theoretically, it could cause the loop to pull out on the support side. However, my alternate theory is that the ridgeline is going to keep those loops from pulling out by staying where it is, with equal force being distributed on both sides of the hammock... (I don't mind a permanent ridgeline!)

GrizzlyAdams
06-27-2008, 10:15
I am trying to visualize this in my head...

So, you are saying I could put a prussik on the hardware near the end of the rope, then take the end of the rope and use it to splice into itself? This would effectively create the "both ends" you describe below, right?

I was actually asking about just running the rope around the hardware once, and then splice. Basically a spliced loop around the rings. Is there a problem with the rope not cinching up to the rings? What about for the trucker's hitch or SLS that use one ring instead of two? (Forgive my ignorance, please!)



Another (similar) question is would the ridgeline keep the same effect from happening? The force on the ridgeline is about 1/2 that of the supports that would be on the other side of the whipping, so theoretically, it could cause the loop to pull out on the support side. However, my alternate theory is that the ridgeline is going to keep those loops from pulling out by staying where it is, with equal force being distributed on both sides of the hammock... (I don't mind a permanent ridgeline!)

pictures here would be helpful. So we use a thousand words instead.

I can take a piece of cord and tie a bowline loop on it, say 3 or 4 inches in height. A poor man's splice. I can attach the rings or the cinch buckle to that loop (here's where the pictures would help)...thread the top of the bowline through the rings or cinch slot, bring the top all the way around and pass between the two cords of the loop on the near side, bring the top back around through the rings or cinch buckle slot again. Now pass the standing end of the cord through the loop top poking up on the far side of the rings or out of the cinch buckle. Tighten.

So that takes care of the hardware end. What you are asking is if you had a cord with loops in both ends, tied a larks head or prussik on the folds in the middle of that cord, with both loops sticking out. One of those has hardware on it. The other one you want to put a ridgeline---or not---on.

So the question is whether, when only one of the loops is loaded, the prussik on the folds will hold. I don't know. But it is easy enough to simulate the situation by taking a length of cord, putting a prussik in the middle on, say, an overhead beam of some kind, and hang a big weight on just one of the free ends coming out of the prussik.

If that doesn't convey the thought then we'll have to break out cameras...!

Grizz

Graybeard
06-30-2008, 18:13
Just getting into this, and trying to keep everything as simple as possible, I don't run a rope through the gather at all. I gather the hammock end, pass it through a ring, fold it back on itself, and whip the two together. The suspension goes straight to the tree side of the ring and the ridge line for the bugnet goes to the ring from the hammock side. In actual practice, the ridge line for the bugnet ties to the ring on the foot end with a bowline and on the head end it goes through the ring and than back to a tautline hitch on itself so I can adjust it while lying down. So far it has worked for several afternoon naps and I'll find out tonight if it keeps my posterior out of the wet grass.

P.S. 7/1 Wet grass kept it's distance. Pileated Woodpecker woke me up after only nine hours of uninterrupted sleep. b.

Narwhalin
07-01-2008, 09:46
pictures here would be helpful. So we use a thousand words instead.

I can take a piece of cord and tie a bowline loop on it, say 3 or 4 inches in height. A poor man's splice. I can attach the rings or the cinch buckle to that loop (here's where the pictures would help)...thread the top of the bowline through the rings or cinch slot, bring the top all the way around and pass between the two cords of the loop on the near side, bring the top back around through the rings or cinch buckle slot again. Now pass the standing end of the cord through the loop top poking up on the far side of the rings or out of the cinch buckle. Tighten.

I appriciate that, Grizz. I don't think we will need to get out the camera now, but my head sure hurts, LOL! :D

However, what I am really getting at with the loop on the hardware end is whether or not the hardware needs to be cinched tight. Right now I have a larkshead on my rings, so the larkshead is cinched up on the rings. If I were to splice the rope to form a loop around the rings, the rings would be loose in the loop instead of cinched tight. My question is, do the rings neccissarily need to be cinched via a larkshead or the method above or can they be "loose" in a loop?

The point of this is to have a rope that has no knots in it. Ever since I talked to the old guy at the sailboat shop where I bought my suspension line about splicing rope, I have wanted to use this technique. It would just look real clean, and I can imagine it would be easy to just whip the hammock on both ends, and trim the extra line on the ends coming out of the whipping to a uniform length, (perhaps about a foot on each end) then splice the loops.


So the question is whether, when only one of the loops is loaded, the prussik on the folds will hold. I don't know. But it is easy enough to simulate the situation by taking a length of cord, putting a prussik in the middle on, say, an overhead beam of some kind, and hang a big weight on just one of the free ends coming out of the prussik.

I am not going to need a removable ridgeline, so I guess this is all a moot point, but I was making one for a friend, and I thought it would be a nice feature.

GrizzlyAdams
07-01-2008, 12:54
I appriciate that, Grizz. I don't think we will need to get out the camera now, but my head sure hurts, LOL! :D

However, what I am really getting at with the loop on the hardware end is whether or not the hardware needs to be cinched tight. Right now I have a larkshead on my rings, so the larkshead is cinched up on the rings. If I were to splice the rope to form a loop around the rings, the rings would be loose in the loop instead of cinched tight. My question is, do the rings neccissarily need to be cinched via a larkshead or the method above or can they be "loose" in a loop?

The point of this is to have a rope that has no knots in it. Ever since I talked to the old guy at the sailboat shop where I bought my suspension line about splicing rope, I have wanted to use this technique. It would just look real clean, and I can imagine it would be easy to just whip the hammock on both ends, and trim the extra line on the ends coming out of the whipping to a uniform length, (perhaps about a foot on each end) then splice the loops.


I think I see what you're saying. No, a simple loop around a pair of rings isn't going to do it. Those rings have to be pinched together. You can still get the clean knot free look you want though by splicing a big loop, and put a prussik on the rings as I described before. The splice could be inches away from the rings, but the pull on the standing end gets transfered to the loop which gets transfered to the rings and they get pinched.

You don't need to pinch a cinch (sorry, couldn't help it), you could loop the end of the cord through the buckle enough times so that the slot is filled, then bring that end back to the cord and splice it. That would be real permanent, unlike the prussik.

Grizz

Narwhalin
07-01-2008, 13:40
Thanks! You da man, Grizz...and I love the Tilley BTW! :) Is it the TH4?