View Full Version : Dutch Buckle vs. Whoopie Hooks
I just bought my 1st hammock (Grand Trunk UL - it's cheap and light) and need a system to hang it. Went to Gander Mountain today and spent $20 on some ENO Slap Straps. They came in a nice sack but are 12 oz. They seemed to bulky/heavy to me so I returned 'em - same day. I was wondering what I'd do next to figure this out and tapped into the power of Google, which led me to this forum.
I'm trying to get educated in effective hammock use and have been checking out Dutch's offerings. I understand how his Dutch Buckle and Whoopie Hook systems both work, but I don't see the advantage one has over the other. They are similarly priced and lightweight, so does anyone have any advice???
Thanks in advance!
Jason
the n00b
Hello and welcome!
The Dutch buckle allows detachable connection between the whoopie slings and the webbing. The Dutch hook allows a detachable connection between the whoopie sling and the continuous loop on the hammock. Both of these can be used in the same suspension system. For example:
Hammock end--->continuous loop--->Dutch hook--->whoopie sling--->Dutch buckle--->webbing
People like having these detachments for different reasons. Some like having their suspension completely separate from their hammock so they have the continuous loop on the hammock end. Personally it gives me the option to switch up suspensions. Not that is it necessary but many here like to fiddle and experiment.
Some only want their webbing separate to avoid getting sap on their hammocks when packed up so they forgo the continuous loop and connect the whoopie slings directly to the hammock.
Others have all in one systems where everything is all attached for simplicity and to avoid leaving any part of their suspension behind while packing up (it happens)
Ultimately, there are many ways to do things. Check out the sticky threads in the suspension forum especially Grizz's 3 part video series.
Hello and welcome!
The Dutch buckle allows detachable connection between the whoopie slings and the webbing. The Dutch hook allows a detachable connection between the whoopie sling and the continuous loop on the hammock. Both of these can be used in the same suspension system. For example:
Hammock end--->continuous loop--->Dutch hook--->whoopie sling--->Dutch buckle--->webbing
People like having these detachments for different reasons. Some like having their suspension completely separate from their hammock so they have the continuous loop on the hammock end. Personally it gives me the option to switch up suspensions. Not that is it necessary but many here like to fiddle and experiment.
Some only want their webbing separate to avoid getting sap on their hammocks when packed up so they forgo the continuous loop and connect the whoopie slings directly to the hammock.
Others have all in one systems where everything is all attached for simplicity and to avoid leaving any part of their suspension behind while packing up (it happens)
Ultimately, there are many ways to do things. Check out the sticky threads in the suspension forum especially Grizz's 3 part video series.
Solid breakdown Bubba!
gunner76
03-24-2012, 18:54
The ENO Slap straps have a habit of streaching so be prepared to end up on the ground if you are using them. Look for polyester straps
SoundWitness
03-24-2012, 18:55
Hello and welcome!
The Dutch buckle allows detachable connection between the whoopie slings and the webbing. The Dutch hook allows a detachable connection between the whoopie sling and the continuous loop on the hammock. Both of these can be used in the same suspension system. For example:
Hammock end--->continuous loop--->Dutch hook--->whoopie sling--->Dutch buckle--->webbing
People like having these detachments for different reasons. Some like having their suspension completely separate from their hammock so they have the continuous loop on the hammock end. Personally it gives me the option to switch up suspensions. Not that is it necessary but many here like to fiddle and experiment.
Some only want their webbing separate to avoid getting sap on their hammocks when packed up so they forgo the continuous loop and connect the whoopie slings directly to the hammock.
Others have all in one systems where everything is all attached for simplicity and to avoid leaving any part of their suspension behind while packing up (it happens)
Ultimately, there are many ways to do things. Check out the sticky threads in the suspension forum especially Grizz's 3 part video series.
Very nice explanation. Well done.
As Bubba said, Grizz's video speak well of the suspension options available out there.
Solid breakdown Bubba!
Very nice explanation. Well done.
As Bubba said, Grizz's video speak well of the suspension options available out there.
Hey thanks!
To the OP, its good you returned the Slap Straps because they stretch. Also forgot to mention that having the detachable suspension allows you to use the same suspension on different hammocks.
I like them both. Hooks are lighter and buckles are more adjustable. So it depends on what is more important to you.
Thanks everyone for the quick responses! I was glad to return the ENO straps since they cost as much as my $20 hammock. Now I'll probably end up spending 2x that amount, unless I try to make some of the stuff on my own -- not usually my thing!
I got the inexpensive hammock as a backup option for when AT shelters are full, but based on the excitement here I might be using it all the time! :)
I'll be sure to check out the mentioned videos, too.
Thanks again!
Jason
dedominick
03-24-2012, 20:55
It also can be nice to have the option to remove the whoopie slings entirely if the span between your trees requires using only your straps and continuous loop on the hammock.
adkphoto
03-26-2012, 13:15
I have them both. I love Dutch Buckles, but I'll tell you, Whoopie Hooks are the bomb! Fast, light, easy, and built-in drip protection to keep you dry in the rain. You can't go wrong with either one, but I recommend the hooks.
Peace,
David
dragon360
03-26-2012, 13:23
One gives you the opportunity to use the same suspension and have the added advantage of taking it all down covered by the tarp. As adkphoto said, I like my buckles and love my hooks!
I have them both. I love Dutch Buckles, but I'll tell you, Whoopie Hooks are the bomb! Fast, light, easy, and built-in drip protection to keep you dry in the rain. You can't go wrong with either one, but I recommend the hooks.
Peace,
David
I think that's what I'm going for. I've just installed my whoopies (10 minutes ago) but aim to have this setup...(by 'dutch hook' i mean 'whoopie hook').
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q516/clumsy_siggy/Suspensionidea.png
brianmat
03-27-2012, 17:38
Are the Dutch hooks even strong enough for that setup?
SilvrSurfr
03-27-2012, 17:52
I think that's what I'm going for. I've just installed my whoopies (10 minutes ago) but aim to have this setup...(by 'dutch hook' i mean 'whoopie hook').
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q516/clumsy_siggy/Suspensionidea.png
Interesting - I never considered putting the whoopie hook on the continuous loop. I guess you can do all sorts of things with them.
Are the Dutch hooks even strong enough for that setup?
I think he meant whoopie hooks. There are so many Dutch this and Dutch that and biners, clips, and hooks that I get confused at times.
SilvrSurfr
03-27-2012, 18:06
I think that's what I'm going for. I've just installed my whoopies (10 minutes ago) but aim to have this setup...(by 'dutch hook' i mean 'whoopie hook').
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q516/clumsy_siggy/Suspensionidea.png
Looking at your pic a little closer (of the suspension, not your pirate avatar), it looks like you have two whoopie hooks, one on the continuous loop and one on the tree straps. Is there any reason you want two whoopie hooks, something to gain from that configuration?
adkphoto
03-28-2012, 07:08
Siggy -
Reverse your whoopie sling so that the adjustable loop is toward the hammock, and larkshead the fixed loop end to your webbing. That way you'll only need one set of whoopie hooks.
Even better if you thread the whoopie hook in the adjustable loop of the whoopie sling. That way, it acts as a stopper to being accidentally pulled into the bury, and, if you want to, you can use one set of whoopie slings and hooks on multiple hammocks. As much as I love Dutch's gear (and I DO love it) this is the most economical way to go.
David
UrsaMajor1887
03-28-2012, 08:54
Siggy -
Reverse your whoopie sling so that the adjustable loop is toward the hammock, and larkshead the fixed loop end to your webbing. That way you'll only need one set of whoopie hooks.
Even better if you thread the whoopie hook in the adjustable loop of the whoopie sling. That way, it acts as a stopper to being accidentally pulled into the bury, and, if you want to, you can use one set of whoopie slings and hooks on multiple hammocks. As much as I love Dutch's gear (and I DO love it) this is the most economical way to go.
David
I just installed this set up on my WBBB and it works great. Easy to adjust. Only three things to worry about keeping track of: the hook, sling, strap part x 2; all one piece that comes off the continuous loop on the hammock, and the hammock. Its light, easy, and quick to set-up, get adjusted, and take down. $39 and about 10 min. to get it put together on your hammock and your hangin'.
Only way I can think to make it easier is to add Dutch Clips to the tree straps.
Here is a way that you don't have to keep track of the strap. This is may all in one version, You have the components but the whoopie have to go through the hugger's loop along with the hook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WThTdaFX_I&context=C4dc28d7ADvjVQa1PpcFMR7M40GBf4QGK0wpQ1tdbz dfyLAS9lo-o=
I really like this method, but keep it on the down low. I don't want to have to change everybodies around for them.:) This way the whoopie hook acts like a Dutch Clip that works with amsteel.
Nice idea! :)
No need to change everyone's suspension. Take a small chain, feed one side through the hole (a small 16 gauge wire or less) making a small loop. Larks head the whoopie hook onto the chain. Then larks head the chain onto the other loop of the whoopie. Basically the only difference is the hook is on the chain. This also lets one use the original whoopie hook that Dutch spliced into the whoopie. Or do it the way in the video and larks head the hook into the fixed end of the whoopie.
BTW- Putting the little Dutch hooks on chains as well as the Whoopie Hooks makes them easier to find when dropped and also has a ton of versatility. I use bright yellow chains!
Hooks on chains. Awesome versatility. Of course, the chain with a Lark's head is not as good as a chain with a whoopie hook nicely spiced into it. I can't wait to order a bunch of those! [you don't really need to sleep do you, Dutch]??:lol:
Great videos...keep em coming! :thumbup1:
Many thanks!!
SoundWitness
03-28-2012, 11:05
Here is a way that you don't have to keep track of the strap. This is may all in one version, You have the components but the whoopie have to go through the hugger's loop along with the hook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WThTdaFX_I&context=C4dc28d7ADvjVQa1PpcFMR7M40GBf4QGK0wpQ1tdbz dfyLAS9lo-o=
I really like this method, but keep it on the down low. I don't want to have to change everybodies around for them.:) This way the whoopie hook acts like a Dutch Clip that works with amsteel.
Very nice. Simple solution when you're attempting to hang in an area of trees that are not the "perfect size" or "perfect location".
You continue to amaze this community with your ingenuity!
.....and of course....you are very easy on the eyes....:laugh:
Nice idea! :)
No need to change everyone's suspension. Take a small chain, feed one side through the hole (a small 16 gauge wire or less) making a small loop. Larks head the whoopie hook onto the chain. Then larks head the chain onto the other loop of the whoopie. Basically the only difference is the hook is on the chain. This also lets one use the original whoopie hook that Dutch spliced into the whoopie. Or do it the way in the video and larks head the hook into the fixed end of the whoopie.
BTW- Putting the little Dutch hooks on chains as well as the Whoopie Hooks makes them easier to find when dropped and also has a ton of versatility. I use bright yellow chains!
Hooks on chains. Awesome versatility. Of course, the chain with a Lark's head is not as good as a chain with a whoopie hook nicely spiced into it. I can't wait to order a bunch of those! [you don't really need to sleep do you, Dutch]??:lol:
Great videos...keep em coming! :thumbup1:
Many thanks!!
Some photos for making the Universal Dutch Clip using Whoopie Hooks. This method keeps the connection near the tree. Again it would be better to have the hooks spliced into the chains rather than girth hitched onto the chain. I also have found that the UDC is not as easy to use as the Dutch Clip and if I am using my 1" straps, I'd probably stick with the Dutch Clip.
http://photos.motoscholar.com/photos/i-8wCMW5h/0/M/i-8wCMW5h-M.jpg
http://photos.motoscholar.com/photos/i-HWrJDR4/0/S/i-HWrJDR4-S.jpg
http://photos.motoscholar.com/photos/i-T4Bh5tc/0/M/i-T4Bh5tc-M.jpg
http://photos.motoscholar.com/photos/i-SJZzC6r/0/M/i-SJZzC6r-M.jpg
http://photos.motoscholar.com/photos/i-5rttx84/0/M/i-5rttx84-M.jpg
Note that it also works with the strap by clipping it to itself:
http://photos.motoscholar.com/photos/i-Tgj5FnJ/0/M/i-Tgj5FnJ-M.jpg
Or just used as a loop:
http://photos.motoscholar.com/photos/i-zW2MGhM/0/M/i-zW2MGhM-M.jpg
Of note: What this also means is a spare whoopie sling with a dutch whoopie hook can also serve as a tree hugger extension that is adjustable. Just larks head the fixed end of the whoopie to the tree hugger, wrap around the tree, and then clip to the whoopie that is attached to the other end.
mrcheviot
04-03-2012, 10:37
Here is a way that you don't have to keep track of the strap. This is may all in one version, You have the components but the whoopie have to go through the hugger's loop along with the hook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WThTdaFX_I&context=C4dc28d7ADvjVQa1PpcFMR7M40GBf4QGK0wpQ1tdbz dfyLAS9lo-o=
I really like this method, but keep it on the down low. I don't want to have to change everybodies around for them.:) This way the whoopie hook acts like a Dutch Clip that works with amsteel.
I've been pondering this since I saw it last week. Seems like a great idea for varying tree sizes, but I was wondering what impact this has on the adjustment of the whoopies?
Of course the whoopies can still be lengthened and shortened.. what I'm referring to is when the whoopie is adjusted in either direction, the excess/slack amsteel needs to travel through the webbing loop, and if used w/ a large diameter tree, against the tree bark as well. Seems that this would add friction and possible undue wear on the amsteel, as well as needing more care to ensure tension was properly redistributed after an adjustment was made.
I could be missing something here. For example I'll admit that the notion of sewing or even placing the adjustable loop of the whoopie into the hugger loop doesn't make much sense to me, but I know people do it. SnoreMachine's pictorial makes perfect sense on the other hand, and is probably what I'll adopt on my new rigging.
On an unrelated note, any ETA on the utility/hanging hooks? Would love to be able to have one included on an upcoming order, just not sure how long I'd have to wait.
I've been pondering this since I saw it last week. Seems like a great idea for varying tree sizes, but I was wondering what impact this has on the adjustment of the whoopies?
Of course the whoopies can still be lengthened and shortened.. what I'm referring to is when the whoopie is adjusted in either direction, the excess/slack amsteel needs to travel through the webbing loop, and if used w/ a large diameter tree, against the tree bark as well. Seems that this would add friction and possible undue wear on the amsteel, as well as needing more care to ensure tension was properly redistributed after an adjustment was made.
I could be missing something here. For example I'll admit that the notion of sewing or even placing the adjustable loop of the whoopie into the hugger loop doesn't make much sense to me, but I know people do it. SnoreMachine's pictorial makes perfect sense on the other hand, and is probably what I'll adopt on my new rigging.
On an unrelated note, any ETA on the utility/hanging hooks? Would love to be able to have one included on an upcoming order, just not sure how long I'd have to wait.
Since tha hammock isn't loaded there really isn't any problem adjusting the whoopie. Is it easier if it isn't rubbing the tree, yes, but it isn't so much resistance it is bothersome.
I am revamping my site and adding the new products is part of that. Hopefully early next week it will be done. Until then if you would like the utility hook just email me and I will add one to your order.
mrcheviot
04-04-2012, 00:15
Yeah, that makes sense I guess. Will have to give it a try someday.
Re: utility hook, that's super news! Sent you an email via your webpage. Thanks so much for offering..
Dutch sent me a couple of Whoopie hooks spliced into chains. They work much better than the larks headed ones. On the larks headed version, the hook wasn't allowed to freely move on the chain. This makes judging how far to pull the strap around the tree a little more challenging. More troubling, the larks-head would sometimes get in the way of the hook's opening. It is important to make sure that the larks head was fully seated on the bottom of the hook. With the spliced version, there is no problem in this respect. Also, the spliced version is easier to use in terms of not using the hook... it is just a loop for passing the Whoopie through.
On another note, I was a bit concerned about the inability of either version not being able to slide over the part of the Whoopie that has a bury. I had no problem this weekend. It would just slide to the bury and stop.
Below is a pic showing the larks-headed version and the spliced version. The first is a hook larks headed and properly seated, the second is a hook larks headed and not properly seated, the third is spliced and against a bury, and the fourth is spliced.
http://photos.motoscholar.com/photos/i-kTx5RqS/0/M/i-kTx5RqS-M.jpg
Close up of the improperly seated larks-headed version:
http://photos.motoscholar.com/photos/i-TWRFNkN/0/M/i-TWRFNkN-M.jpg
angrysparrow
04-08-2012, 17:43
what I am affectionately calling universal Dutch clips, or UDCs
I posted this in the other thread as well, but there are already 'dutch clips' made. Calling these that will be nothing but confusing.
I posted this in the other thread as well, but there are already 'dutch clips' made. Calling these that will be nothing but confusing.
Changed where I could. Couldn't see where I could edit and change in the earlier post (#22). Feel free to fix/delete if you want to. Thanks for the feedback.