View Full Version : 2 Layer vs. 1 Layer
CrazyMike
06-05-2012, 20:56
Just curious on the general consensus.
I've got a DB60 on order, single layer, and I'm wondering what the pro's/con's are regarding 2 layers...and no I don't weigh over 300 lbs. Not even 200lbs in case you're curious. :D
fallkniven
06-05-2012, 21:05
My take on it is if you use an underquilt all of the time and no pad, then a single layer will suffice and reduce weight/bulk. The second layer is nice for using a pad, also helps in the summer if you don't use and uq or pad with insects biting through.
I agree with fallkniven. The double layer hammocks are essentially required if you use full length pads. Otherwise, it's not important.
ticketothemoon
06-05-2012, 22:23
A double layer hammock is less breathable than an one layer hammock ...
I only use quilts, mostly partial under quilts and I prefer the double layer hammocks. I like to use the double layer to hold some Insul-Bright in the winter months. The rest of the time it holds my foot pad in place. The single layer hammocks force me to put a pad in my TQ and that is less comfortable to me.
I prefer the dbl layer hammocks and will stick with them even if there is a weight penalty. ;)
SilvrSurfr
06-06-2012, 00:41
I like a double layer because of versatility. Right now it's warm in New Jersey and I don't need my HG 20* Phoenix UQ, so I'm using just a pad. And pads in a single layer are a pain to get situated underneath you.
My BIAS DL is my favorite hammock, the most comfortable I own, but I really just got it so I could loan it to taller friends who didn't have a UQ and needed a pad. No way I'm giving them my UQ. Buy your own!
Sidewinder
06-06-2012, 00:57
I only sleep in single layers. Unless you use pads or like less stretch, you really don't need to carry the extra weight.
S
ftroop94
06-06-2012, 06:17
Pads are are the primary use for DL, but stretch can be a factor even for this using an UQ. My DL 1.0 and 1.1 hammocks are more comfortable (to me) than my SL 1.7. I never use a pad. That stated, some folks prefer a soft bed and some prefer a firm one.
Another variable is the fabric you are using on the DB. Is it the 2.1 poly? If so that could certainly change the stretch factor. It's apples and oranges.
oldgringo
06-06-2012, 06:45
A double layer hammock is less breathable than an one layer hammock ...
I agree, and in the heat of summer, nothing can match the delicious coolness felt when a breeze brushes that single layer of nylon. Heaven!
But there's more to it than that. Others have addressed the insect and pad issues, but consider: in recent weeks, we've had reports of at least 2 fabric failures, both single layers (Speer and DIY). I don't remember hearing of any comparable failures of doubles. Help me out here...anyone heard of a double layer failure?
Most of this has already been said in some form or another:
A single layer is my preferred hammock, but the fact is a double layer + a pad is way, way cheaper than an underquilt. Literally, you're talking $40 for the difference between a SL and a DL and a pad is $10. So that's $50 for back protection/warmth.
To me, that's it. If you're on a budget and can only afford one hammock and an underquilt is out of your price range, I'd opt for a DL. It would save you between $100 and $150.
If you're not worried about the cost of an UQ or if you are only a summertime camper, go for the SL and save some weight. Like SilvrSurfr, I see a DL as a loaner... something my wife and kids can use in shoulder seasons without my having to ante up for an underquilt (or fight my sewing machine and make one... even if you make your own, down isn't cheap).
Good question, by the way. I've enjoyed the answers.
Hiknhanger
06-06-2012, 09:15
I think a double layer gives folks with a limited budget(like myself) more choices for bottom insulation. Pads, old sleeping bags, truck sun shields, etc. have been used with double layer setups pretty successfully with less fiddle factor as far as the pads moving around. I have designed a hybrid that uses the inner layer as the sole support for the hanger, but with a second totally detachable layer that allows for a big selection of insulation choices. http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53014
This past weekend I was relaxing under the trees, and the second layer was too hot. I just detached the magnets on the sides and swung it under me to the foot side of the hammock, and it folded up into a long narrow piece of fabric that was out of the way. I felt that nice breeze Oldgringo referred to just fine!
PapaSmurf
06-06-2012, 09:58
My 2 cents,
I suggest going double layer, but reducing the fabric weight.
The DB60 SL weighs approx 30-31oz when built from the 2.56oz Polyester Crinkle Taffeta.
This provides a very solid hammock bed with very little stretch.
The DB60 DL built from this same fabric weighs around 47ish oz and you get the ability to insert a pad between the layers. A person weighing under 200 does not gain any noticable support and the additional strength added is unnecessary.
If you got the DB60 DL using 1.1oz ripstop, it would go somewhere around 28-29oz and would offer you the advantages of a DL at an acceptable overall weight.
I'm 240lbs and really prefer the firmer feel of a single layer of the Polyester fabric over a double layer of the 1.1oz nylon. At your weight, I doubt that you'd notice much of a difference.
ftroop94
06-06-2012, 10:25
My 2 cents,
I suggest going double layer, but reducing the fabric weight.
The DB60 SL weighs approx 30-31oz when built from the 2.56oz Polyester Crinkle Taffeta.
This provides a very solid hammock bed with very little stretch.
The DB60 DL built from this same fabric weighs around 47ish oz and you get the ability to insert a pad between the layers. A person weighing under 200 does not gain any noticable support and the additional strength added is unnecessary.
If you got the DB60 DL using 1.1oz ripstop, it would go somewhere around 28-29oz and would offer you the advantages of a DL at an acceptable overall weight.
I'm 240lbs and really prefer the firmer feel of a single layer of the Polyester fabric over a double layer of the 1.1oz nylon. At your weight, I doubt that you'd notice much of a difference.
What DEVISTATES me about this comment...?
When I break down and order...I'm gonna have to try both to see which I prefer. Hello, my name is Steve and I'm a hammock-holic.
CrazyMike
06-06-2012, 10:35
Thanks for the response Randy!
I will eventually end up with an UQ but will probably use a SPE with a Thermarest pad in the meantime. I did have some concerns regarding biting insects but I think there may be other ways to overcome that without the need for a 2nd layer of fabric.
I do appreciate all of you that chimed in with reasons.
Broomstickize
06-06-2012, 16:58
From a strength point of view a SL should always be outperformed by a DL.
Not only is there a greater amount (cross section) to carry the weight but probably more importantly there's the 'safety net' of failure by a split or tear... If you put a fault into one layer yiou have another with no fault to propogate failure.
There's probably a interesting piece of work in figuring out the optimum strength to weight ratio.
JumpinJackJim
08-07-2013, 22:57
Anybody stuff a sleeping bag into double layer, instead of pad? I have an HH Exped Zip, and use a thermarest, but am considering a WBB, especially if I might get away with shoving a summer sleeping bag in between layers and calling it a night...
Anybody stuff a sleeping bag into double layer, instead of pad? I have an HH Exped Zip, and use a thermarest, but am considering a WBB, especially if I might get away with shoving a summer sleeping bag in between layers and calling it a night...
While a pad stands up to the compressive forces between the two layers, a sleeping bag will compress and lose a considerable amount of it's insulating value.
Also watch out laying on zippers. Some would consider them to be a somewhat sharp and pointy object.
Unmighty
08-08-2013, 09:31
It absolutely cracks me up to see people don't do DL beacuse of the weight. I mean its a matter of ounces unless your a gram weeniee there to me is no question DL is the way to go simply due to its versitality. I dont carry anything unless it fufills multiple purposes and that includes my hammock! Just my 2 cents!
outdoorsguy
08-08-2013, 11:37
Both have their place in my lineup.
My SL WBBB 1.7 is what I think is THE perfect summer hammock. I never need a pad or UQ in the 5 months of summer down here, so a DL in summer would be wasted. As mentioned, it lets breezes through on hot nights. Plus the 1.7 supports my 175 perfectly, I don't like too much stretch. A squirt of permethrin keeps me from ever getting bit by skeeters through the bottom.
My 2 WBRRs both have DLs, for pads, for the other 3 cooler seasons. I have a no net for the really cold months of winter. And a netted RR for fall and spring, when the early nights are a little warm and the skeeters are still out, but I can also put a pad in it for the wee hours of the morning when it gets chilly.
With all the options out there, I figured, why constrain myself to just one hammock system?
Hammock insulation is in a transition period from pads in DLs, to UQs on SLs. As time goes by, hanging gear will have more variety and will be more specialized.
There was a period when Kelty backpacks with frames were the state of the art. That was a long time ago.
JumpinJackJim
08-08-2013, 21:46
Got it. Thx. Just hoping I could pitch the Thermarest for the warmer months, to get a little insulation for nights in 50's-60's. Looks like there is no substitute for a good UQ. Maybe I'll hang onto the Hennessey a while longer, and focus on an UQ... (now for the Full vs 3/4 length obsession...)
zooshooter
08-09-2013, 08:16
I agree, and in the heat of summer, nothing can match the delicious coolness felt when a breeze brushes that single layer of nylon. Heaven!
But there's more to it than that. Others have addressed the insect and pad issues, but consider: in recent weeks, we've had reports of at least 2 fabric failures, both single layers (Speer and DIY). I don't remember hearing of any comparable failures of doubles. Help me out here...anyone heard of a double layer failure?
This is exactly why I made my tablecloth a DL. Reports indicate that a single layer would hold my weight but I am skeptical and want to be absolutely sure. Even with 2 layers the thing is lighter and packs down way smaller than my tent. I still need the rain tarp but that won't push it over on either size or weight.
Singingcrowsings
08-09-2013, 14:41
Thanks for posting this question! It helped me decide to get a DL 1.1oz hammock. :)
I like the idea of having more versatile gear, all while saving my butt just that little bit extra from being someone's lunch.
I ordered a WBBB XLC 1.1DL last week and am very excited to get it. I bought the 1.1 DL based on the recommendation from Brandon regarding my size. I had the option for the 1.7 SL but here is my logic. A DL is better for insects in hotter weather when no under quilt is needed. I have a HG 40* UQ with +1oz that I intend to use in the shoulder seasons (and cool summer nights here in the Great White North) and then if I so choose I can place a pad between layers combined with my UQ for those sub freezing nights. I don't intend to winter camp in my hammock as I have a canvas hot tent for that.
Jim
I should add that I mainly canoe camp and my hiking is generally limited to only a few miles at a time, so weight is less of a concern. I would like to do a through hike or large loop some time but our long distance trails do not offer anything but stealth camping along the route. For example the brochure for the Rideau trail from Kingston to Ottawa recommends using two cars and leaving one at each end of your daily hike route so that you can get to a camp ground, motel or b&b for the night. Seems pointless to me.
Jim
honeybakedhammock
02-19-2014, 15:12
I would prefer a dl hammock because I see myself using a sleeping pad most of the time. Perhaps, one day I will try out a sl though. I have been leaning more toward smaller and lighter backpacking lately :)
One point that was not mentioned yet (well, okay, maybe indirectly): dog-compatibility. people I talked to recommended a double-layer hammock such that scatches made by the claws don't (necessarily) cost you your hammock. the double-layer is (while not more resistant in each layer) doesn't loose structural strength as fast from a few holes ...
MattBigmonster
02-23-2014, 08:35
Some of us don't have a choice with 270 pounds above the ankles...
GoProGator
02-24-2014, 12:43
^ If you can break a tablecloth hammock, which can hold myself and another person without issues (~330 lbs), the layers of fabric in your hammock are going to be the least of your problems.
wcdaniels
02-24-2014, 18:21
I only use quilts, mostly partial under quilts and I prefer the double layer hammocks. I like to use the double layer to hold some Insul-Bright in the winter months. The rest of the time it holds my foot pad in place. The single layer hammocks force me to put a pad in my TQ and that is less comfortable to me.
I prefer the dbl layer hammocks and will stick with them even if there is a weight penalty. ;)
Any idea how much warmth that adds? I'm about to get a 20* underquilt, since I haven't been winter camping in years. But I'd like to possibly stretch it to some winter hanging.
A single layer + fronkey style netting will run you in about $20 of material and an hour of assembly if you already have your suspension and a sewing machine. So no reason not to do one of those and pack whichever is appropriate for that trip.