Warm Enough?

[affreeman]

I am planning to use my Hennessy Explorer Ultralight on my AT thru-hike next year. Current plans put me atop Springer Mtn on the 18th of March, which should give me the pleasure of some rather nippy nights.

I've just gotten the UnderCover and UnderPad for the hammock. I am thinking I can supplement the underpad with my down jacket and a heat sheet. I also will be carrying a Thermarest ProLite 4, which is part of my pack's suspension and which I will also use if I sleep in a shelter or in hostels, etc. I'll be starting the trail with either my 0* or my 20* Mountain Hardwear down bag.

So, finally, I get to my questions. Just how cold do you think I can sleep comfortably in the Hennessy with the undercover, underpad, down jacket, and heat sheet? What about if I add the thermarest inside?

Oh, and is it better to put the down jacket on top of the underpad, or underneath it? Or does it matter? Any good tricks to minimize the thermarest sliding around inside the hammock?
~
Allen Freeman
[email protected]
www.allenf.com

[whitefoot_hp]

all of that sounds pretty warm, its just harder to use pads in the hennessey because of the bottom load. its something you'll have to experiment with. but i would venture to say that sounds like a solid setup for that time of year.

[Ramblinrev]

Any good tricks to minimize the thermarest sliding around inside the hammock?

The wild ride on a pad in the HH has been the bane of my existence in a hammock. I am going to be experimenting with something that I thought about last weekend. Not sure how well it would work with an inflatible, but I am going to try with my CCF. The tieout corners on my HH Safari are well reinforced already. I took a couple of zip ties and ran them through opposite corners of the ccf which had be cut to fit into the tieout corners. In this case I put the pad on the outside above my UQ and ran the tieout cord through the zipcord loop. The pad stayed in place all night but I think it may have disrupted the UQ coverage. So I am considering setting some poly mitten hooks or some velcro strap fasteners into the corner reinforcements on the inside and running attaching the pad and the hammock that way. I haven't tried it yet, but I am toying with the idea.

The problem I would foresee with a Prolite4 or other inflatable would be length and/or fixing some loops to the pad without damaging the integrity of the pad seal. For all I know at this point, my idea may rip the corners of the ccf and be useless anyway. Just have to play and find out.

[BillyBob58]

You are probably going to need a Speer SPE in order to be OK with that pad inside the HH. That is another 4 oz, plus cost, but worth it to me. Of course, if you are going to be sleeping on the pads on a regular basis anyway, and you have an SPE, the argument could be made: why bother with the SS anyway? You could just stack pads under your torso as required for any temp. OTOH, if you had the SS, there would be many nights that you didn't need the pads, and that would be more comfortable.

But to answer your specific question: I would say you can go WAY below 20*F, assuming you are able to use the SS to full advantage. BUT, this of course varies greatly with the individual! YMMV!

For example, I and several others have been able to use the basic SS with 1 OCF pad and space blanket ( or heat sheet) down at least the low-mid 30s, maybe a bit lower. (At least one person here has done much better than that, but he is from Canada!) By adding HH kidney and torso pads, and/or a down vest in the UC, and/or a Garlington insulator ( do a search for this) in the UC, I have done the high teens without much trouble. But some folks can't do much below 50*F with a SS, so you need to experiment in the winter under safe conditions. But, whatever temp you are able to get out of your basic SS( almost certainly at least mid 40*F), you should be able to add 20 or 30*F to that with a pad.

But, you will need to be skilled with your SS to even hope to get the above temps out of it. Some people find it difficult to get it to work. The main thing is not to put anything down in the UC, or on top of the OCF pad, that is heavy enough to cause a gap. And make sure your suspension is adjusted so there is NO GAP once you are inside. It is easy enough to do, but you might get somebody to observe once you are in the hammock. If you have a gap, I guarantee you will be cold. As you add whatever, you may need to adjust tension on pad or UC to avoid any gap, once you are inside. Of course, you don't want it TOO tight either, to compress the OCF pad. But I think that would be hard to do, actually.

You can put the ( light weight) down garment either on the OCF pad or down in the UC, but I would choose the later. Because unless you can really loosen the HH pad adjustment, it will be snug against your back and you will compress the down- tricky but it can be done. However, make sure the space blanket is on top of ALL insulation, the first item under the hammock. Or, you will have condensation in your insulation and you will get cold. In fact, I notice more condensation problems, down in the UC, anytime I don't use the space blanket as first layer under the hammock, unless it is not really cold.

Some folks have reported great success using thin, light weight Gossamer Gear super flexible pads on top of the OCF pad to get a stout boost, along with increasing the tension adjustment to avoid gap from the extra weight, but I have not done this so I don't know. But do not put a heavy pad in the UC or on top of the OCF pad, or it will gap( plus, it won't flex) and you will be cold.

In fact, avoid anything heavy down in the SS, the lighter per square inch, the better, IMO. That is why the Garlington insulator ( couple of bucks, couple of oz- a space blanket in a trash bag) works so great with the SS, it is virtually weightless compared to its size. The elastics in the UC will be able to snug it right up against the OCF pad, adding several inches of loft under you. It gives a big boost, in my experience. The HH kidney and torso pads also add a good bit right where you need it most, for a few oz. And pretty cheap, and compress down fairly well. ( If they are still available?)

Good luck, have fun learning!

[Hooch]

Not to rain on your thru-hike parade, but what are you using for top insulation?:confused:

[Coffee]

Whatever advice you get, do some testing this winter. Everyone is different. If you can make it into the teens or lower you should be more than fine. You might just have a couple colder nights, hard to say for sure.

If it gets super cold, you can always go to the ground, on your pad, wearing all your clothes. If a super bad front is coming a lot of people get off and wait out a night or two in a hostel or hotel. I did that a few times last winter.

Also keep in mind that as you lose body fat you will get colder easier. What keeps you warm now will not be enough after a month or 2 of hiking.

[affreeman]

Not to rain on your thru-hike parade, but what are you using for top insulation?:confused:

As mentioned, I'll be starting the trail with either my 0* or my 20* Mountain Hardwear down bag.

Once it warms up I'll swap that out for a 32* Western Mountaineering Summerlite, as well as send home some of the under insulation.

[affreeman]

Also keep in mind that as you lose body fat you will get colder easier. What keeps you warm now will not be enough after a month or 2 of hiking.

Body fat? What's body fat? I'm 6'3" and weigh about 180, so compared to most people, not much body fat. I used to be 6'3" and 150 pounds, so I *feel* like I have body fat, but really nto so much.

[affreeman]

You are probably going to need a Speer SPE in order to be OK with that pad inside the HH.

My hope is that I can use the SS with the down jacket and underpad most of the time, without the thermarest inside. The thermarest would hopefully only be needed on the rare (he said hopefully) coldest nights, thus mostly avoiding having to deal with it inside thew hammock.

[Hooch]

As mentioned, I'll be starting the trail with either my 0* or my 20* Mountain Hardwear down bag.

Once it warms up I'll swap that out for a 32* Western Mountaineering Summerlite, as well as send home some of the under insulation.Sorry, 'bout that. Missed that part. Carry on.

[Nest]

Will you have temps down to the low teens where you live before your hike? Living in MA you are pretty lucky in being able to test this stuff out. We didn't have many cold days, so I had to guess. Starting late March you can still get into the low teens a couple of times like Coffee said.

Plus he's right about the body fat thing, and it sucks. I'm 6 ft and weighed 155 when I started, and was down to 140 when I finished. At one point I was wearing all of my clothes and shivering in 60 degrees sitting in a shelter. Luckily with a NOBO hike you won't see the lows up north that you see in the south. So if you can get into the low teens for the south, you will feel the same amount of coldness when it gets down to 30 degrees near the end of your hike.

[BillyBob58]

Plus he's right about the body fat thing, and it sucks. I'm 6 ft and weighed 155 when I started, and was down to 140 when I finished. At one point I was wearing all of my clothes and shivering in 60 degrees sitting in a shelter..

Wow, that change would be hard to plan for. Basically, you would just have to take far more insulation than your testing had indicated was adequate. On a 30 day NOLS course 23 years ago, I lost 22 lbs. in the 30 days. Started at 194 and came out at 172. Oddly, I don't remember suffering more with the cold at the end than I did at the beginning. Maybe I still had enough body fat because I had a lot to start with. But we also more or less force fed fat. I remember we would add butter to our hot chocolate. And we ate a ton of cheese and nuts. That may have helped. Or, it may be I just can't remember suffering more with the cold at the end of the course, even though I did.

[Nest]

Wow, that change would be hard to plan for. Basically, you would just have to take far more insulation than your testing had indicated was adequate. On a 30 day NOLS course 23 years ago, I lost 22 lbs. in the 30 days. Started at 194 and came out at 172. Oddly, I don't remember suffering more with the cold at the end than I did at the beginning. Maybe I still had enough body fat because I had a lot to start with. But we also more or less force fed fat. I remember we would add butter to our hot chocolate. And we ate a ton of cheese and nuts. That may have helped. Or, it may be I just can't remember suffering more with the cold at the end of the course, even though I did.


It actually balances out for a NOBO. Coffee had it hard because he started in warmer weather and hiked into the winter. We started in the winter and hiked into the northern fall. So the gear that got me down to 0 degrees in the south with what body fat I had was just enough to keep me warm in the north without my body fat. So you just need all of your winter gear you started with to finish the trail. I didn't need all of it because I started March 1st, and saw well below the teens. If you are equiped to get down to the teens then that gear will be just perfect for the fall up north.

Another reason the cold was harder on us than you remember with your course is we weren't aclimated to the cold yet. We went from 90 degree days in the mid-atlantic states to low 40's and high 30's up north. As the weather got colder with the coming fall we were hiking north and speeding up the temperature drop process.

[bear bag hanger]

Regarding loss of fat reserves on the AT during a thru hike. My experience was apparently a little different. I started out at about 180 and finished at about 150. I was cold during March & April. I sent back my winter stuff arount the end of May and used my summer setup the rest of the way to Sept 11th, when I summitted. While the temperatures got down into the 20s some nights in Maine, I never felt that cold. I assumed it was because I was more use to the cold, having gotten to it more grandually than I had at the beginning of the hike.

[toddkmiller]

Wow. Thru hiking the AT would be like a dream come true but I'll have to wait for retirement and the kids to leave. (Check out the AT article in this month's Backpacker Magazine)

I have posted this in other forums and I think it is met with some skepticism but I assure you it's true and accurate.

Last February, myself and 2 other scout leaders spent a cozy night in -25 C (-13 F) weather with the following:
- HH Expedition Asym
- Hennessey SS with additional space blanket
- Double Down Bags (Cdn Military model)
- Polypro tops and bottoms with wool socks

We had no Over Cover and all 3 of us were toasty trhoughout the night.

[Coffee]

It actually balances out for a NOBO. Coffee had it hard because he started in warmer weather and hiked into the winter. We started in the winter and hiked into the northern fall. So the gear that got me down to 0 degrees in the south with what body fat I had was just enough to keep me warm in the north without my body fat. So you just need all of your winter gear you started with to finish the trail. I didn't need all of it because I started March 1st, and saw well below the teens. If you are equiped to get down to the teens then that gear will be just perfect for the fall up north.

Another reason the cold was harder on us than you remember with your course is we weren't aclimated to the cold yet. We went from 90 degree days in the mid-atlantic states to low 40's and high 30's up north. As the weather got colder with the coming fall we were hiking north and speeding up the temperature drop process.


Yeah I remember some cold nights in the shelters. Sleeping in my 20 degree bag with my 0 deg quilt inside it overtop me. A few other times where if I wasn't walking or in my sleeping bag I was cold.

I lucked out with some warm weather late in the year last year. Definitly not the norm.

The best advice is just to go with it. You can always add more later. Don't be afraid to hit up department stores, thift shops, or anything to add warm layers when needed. Well worth the weight. Another reason I prefer a pack that is bigger than what I need. Leaves more options later.

[whitefoot_hp]

Another reason I prefer a pack that is bigger than what I need. Leaves more options later.
yep, there is always room for more food, more clothes, etc. not leaving you all limited and committed.

these were the final factors that led me to choose my nimbus ozone pack over my ULA conduit for my upcoming thru. i may switch to the conduit if need be.

[Nest]

yep, there is always room for more food, more clothes, etc. not leaving you all limited and committed.

these were the final factors that led me to choose my nimbus ozone pack over my ULA conduit for my upcoming thru. i may switch to the conduit if need be.

Switch to the smaller pack when you lighten your load and lose a lot of gear from sending winter stuff home. That's what I did. Carried a 3900 ci external frame with my hammock, underquilt, and tarp attached to the outside. Then in the summer I went with a nimbus ozone. The external allowed me to carry any food I wanted. Including coconuts, entire birthday cakes, and even a whole watermelon.