JRB hammock with sleeping bag?

[Madison320]

I just ordered the BMBH. I have a large thermarest ridgerest (25"X77"). I'm wondering how the thermarest in the sleeve combined with a sleeping bag will work. Anyone tried this combination?

[fin]

It will work - depends on how low of a temp you plan on going with this setup and how good of a bag you have. I've used a bag in the BMB with different mat combinations, and it's OK. Test it when you get yours, and see if it works for you. Like I say, it's OK, and I could do it for awhile.

A UQ works best in a BMB - you are basically cocooned with all that fluffy down warmth around your sides. Throw a nice down top blanket, and you have everything you need to get you down pretty far temp-wise. Add some kind of Mat to the UQ combination, and it is toasty warm goodness all around. :D

[Heber]

My setup is only slightly different. I have a DIY bridge rather than a BMBH and I use a WalMart CCF pad which is 24" wide. It works great. I slip the pad in between the two layers of the hammock and it's off to sleep. Great insulation on the bottom and very comfortable IMHO. I don't think I'd like an underquilt any better. Now in a conventional hammock the opposite would be true. It's hard to position the pad right and to stay on top of it during the night. But in the bridge it's easy and comfortable.

[Madison320]

Would a sleeping bag/pad combo be warmer than a UQ/Top blanket for a given weight? It seems like a sleeping bag would be more efficient since it is a tighter fit. Probably not as comfortable but warmer?

[fin]

I have found the UQ to be much warmer than a bag/pad combo, IMO. Now, if I had an Exped DownMat, that might be a different story. I started as just a pad/bag guy, but as long as I have a UQ, I will use it over a pad/bag combo anytime.

[Madison320]

The reason I'm asking is I'm a car camper and I don't have a lightweight sleeping bag. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a sleeping bag or UQ. Also if the hammock doesn't work for me I want to try a tarp tent. So I'm trying to do this without spending money on stuff I don't need. :)

[fin]

Go ahead and do the pad/bag combo. It is still better than sleeping on the ground!:scared: And since you are doing your hanging where it's a little warmer, you should be OK, unless you are a cold sleeper.

[BillyBob58]

That Ridgerest ought to be OK to the low 40s I would guess, maybe even a bit lower. But if it is not, Just buy a WM blue pad ( about $6) and slip it in on top of the RR. Or, maybe cut it into two sections each equal to the width of the BMBH pad sleeve, and use one or two to cover part or all of your torso to butt, on top of or underneath the Rigerest. You really don't need much for your legs. And I bet that extra pad will take you right on down temp wise to below anything you are going to encounter. I know I was very pleasantly warm one 22*F night with a Speer SPE, using a Ridgerest full length and a short Thermarest ultralight inflatable stacked. There was no hint of cold that night, for sure. It seems to me pads stacked in the BMBH pad sleeve ought to work about as well, if not better. ( But I have not tried it yet, so YMMV) The BMBH is probably the best hammock, overall, to use with a pad or pads, though it does change the center of gravity and feel of the hammock. But still comfortable to me.

Now whether you will be quite as comfortable with thick pads as with an UQ is a different question, and appears to vary with the individual. Some can not stand any pad in any hammock comfort wise, and some do just fine.

[fin]

That Ridgerest ought to be OK to the low 40s I would guess, maybe even a bit lower. But if it is not, Just buy a WM blue pad ( about $6) and slip it in on top of the RR. Or, maybe cut it into two sections each equal to the width of the BMBH pad sleeve, and use one or two to cover part or all of your torso to butt, on top of or underneath the Rigerest. You really don't need much for your legs. And I bet that extra pad will take you right on down temp wise to below anything you are going to encounter. I know I was very pleasantly warm one 22*F night with a Speer SPE, using a Ridgerest full length and a short Thermarest ultralight inflatable stacked. There was no hint of cold that night, for sure. It seems to me pads stacked in the BMBH pad sleeve ought to work about as well, if not better. ( But I have not tried it yet, so YMMV) The BMBH is probably the best hammock, overall, to use with a pad or pads, though it does change the center of gravity and feel of the hammock. But still comfortable to me.

Now whether you will be quite as comfortable with thick pads as with an UQ is a different question, and appears to vary with the individual. Some can not stand any pad in any hammock comfort wise, and some do just fine.

Good advice. I would guess that stacking an air-type mat between a ccf pad, with the ccf pad on the outside of the hammock, would keep the air in the pad from cooling off too much, and should take you down pretty far. Huh, I never thought to STACK the pads, I'll have to give that a shot. Very doable for car-camping situations, or even for paddling.

The thing I like about the UQ option is that it seems much more breathable, and as someone who sleeps warm anyway, I tend to sweat more with an unbreathable pad beneath me. I don't wake up clammy with a UQ, whereas sometimes a pad can cause me to sweat. But if it's all about just trying out a system and saving money, lots of people swear by the pad/bag combo, and it is flexible if you have to go to ground.

[Madison320]

I know I was very pleasantly warm one 22*F night with a Speer SPE, using a Ridgerest full length and a short Thermarest ultralight inflatable stacked.

What type of sleeping bag did you use?

[fin]

Just thought I would add this link to the thread - this was a very good thread on breathability of pads vs. uq.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5373

[Madison320]

I wonder if you're less likely to get sweaty on a ridgerest compared to a smooth pad.

[BillyBob58]

What type of sleeping bag did you use?

I had an old 5*F NF Polarguard mummy bag, probably plus fleece clothing. But I was so abundantly warm underneath, this was one of the few times I was successful using the bag as a quilt. Prior to that, drafts around the shoulders, especially if I moved, had kept me from being warm enough quilt style with a mummy bag and their narrow cut around the shoulders. But this time, I was able to get rid of some accessory items that I had been using to boost warmth ( fewer layers, neck gator etc), and still stay warm enough quilt style. I attribute that mainly to having had PLENTY of warmth underneath( but who knows). I'm sure I could have gone a fair bit lower as far as back warmth.

To follow up, a little while ago I went out and threw a full length 20" wide RR in the BMBH, with a 1/2 length, 20" wide WM blue pad under the torso to upper leg section, on the bottom. For the 15 minutes or so I was there, it worked fine. I went from back to side several times, and all appeared to stay in place, even with the narrow pads. It was only about 50*F ( and windy though), but I felt that immediate luxurious warmth on my back, the kind I associate with pads. But I don't know if they would stay aligned through a night. (But 25" wide pads probably would for sure.) Of course, it has a different "feel" than with an UQ or just hammock alone. Probably not as nice feeling, but sure 'nuff warm.

[BillyBob58]

I wonder if you're less likely to get sweaty on a ridgerest compared to a smooth pad.

I suspect so. That is why I put the RR on top of the WW blue pad. But, the time I stacked those pads in an SPE, I had my smooth TR inflatable UL on top, and I never had any sweat issues at all. Not that I could tell, anyway. Who knows if my fleece absorbed some, or how much.

[Just Jeff]

Convoluted pads didn't make much difference for me re: sweaty back.

But it helped me to use the bag on top as a quilt rather than getting inside. Easier to stay on the pads for one thing, but also when I had the bag between my body and pad it soaked up the sweat like a sponge.

[No Trail Name]

good thread, I was camping last weekend and i use a WM blue pad that i cut 2 - 12" pieces off the length and laced them to the sides as wings to cover my shoulders. this works good because i can fold them under if not needed and also i fold them in to roll up. I also use a REI 0* bag with this and have been in sleet mid to low 30's with no problem. But using a HH Asym it is hard to get the pad and the bag arranged before i get in. Then it takes some effort to get it all aligned right before i go off to sleep. I was wondering if anyone had tried to make something so the pad can be attached to the bottom of the bag and yet be removable for packing up? Just a thought
I would love to hear any ideas

[BillyBob58]

good thread, I was camping last weekend and i use a WM blue pad that i cut 2 - 12" pieces off the length and laced them to the sides as wings to cover my shoulders. this works good because i can fold them under if not needed and also i fold them in to roll up. I also use a REI 0* bag with this and have been in sleet mid to low 30's with no problem. But using a HH Asym it is hard to get the pad and the bag arranged before i get in. Then it takes some effort to get it all aligned right before i go off to sleep. I was wondering if anyone had tried to make something so the pad can be attached to the bottom of the bag and yet be removable for packing up? Just a thought
I would love to hear any ideas

You might find as Speer SPE helpful for keeping every thing in place, even as you are getting in. But a pad is a bit easier to deal with with a top loader. Or better yet, any hammock with a pad sleeve.

[skeenut]

I've got an SPE that I'm not using. If you're interested PM me.

Jeff, Sparta, NJ

[Madison320]

I have found the UQ to be much warmer than a bag/pad combo, IMO. Now, if I had an Exped DownMat, that might be a different story. I started as just a pad/bag guy, but as long as I have a UQ, I will use it over a pad/bag combo anytime.

You're right. I tried it for real saturday night. It got down to the upper 30's. I was really cold. It was a lonnngggg night! It felt like I was sleeping on a block of ice.

[BillyBob58]

You're right. I tried it for real saturday night. It got down to the upper 30's. I was really cold. It was a lonnngggg night! It felt like I was sleeping on a block of ice.

So you are saying that using the Ridgerest in the upper 30s, it was too cold? Did you happen to notice if you were cold only under your back, or was it your legs and feet also? ( I'm assuming that inadequate top insulation played no part, no drafts causing cold when you tried to use a bag as a quilt?

Anyway, if it was just your back that was cold, just take a 1/2 length $6 Walmart blue pad and put it under ( or on top) of that Ridgerest. That should make a big difference. If it was also your feet and legs, use it full length.

If you think you need full width ( were your arms and shoulders cold?), just cut that WM pad into 2 or more 25" widths and insert into the JRB so that they cover from side to side. Good luck!

[fin]

You're right. I tried it for real saturday night. It got down to the upper 30's. I was really cold. It was a lonnngggg night! It felt like I was sleeping on a block of ice.


I see by your 4sale post that you are giving up already. Not going to try a UQ first?

[Mustardman]

I see by your 4sale post that you are giving up already. Not going to try a UQ first?

Underquilts are pretty expensive for a "just try it" approach, unless you're handy enough to DIY something out of an old bag. I wasn't willing to sew and my attempts at tying something up out of an old Target sleeping bag didn't work well at all.

That said, with a thermarest trail pro and cheap walmart corrugated blue pad, along with a cheap alps mountaineering 15 degree mummy bag, I was plenty warm into the low 30s, except when my shoulders got off the pad. I figure cutting the blue pad in half and using the halves sideways to get more shoulder coverage would do the trick just fine.

Instead, I opted to pick up an exped Synmat 7 DLX, which is wider than a thermarest, and also thicker, so it lifts me up out of the hammock a bit and gets rid of the compression at my shoulders. I've found this setup to be both warm and comfortable, and think I could probably go into the high 20s without much problem.

Madison, If the cold was the main thing driving you away from hammock camping, I would seriously consider not selling your bridge and experimenting with it some more. I was pretty frustrated after my first full night in my hammock (I'm as new to this as you are), but I feel like I've worked out some of the bugs and am now totally converted to this hammock camping thing. I even set it up inside the house to take naps :D If you found that the hammock otherwise worked for you, I feel like the warmth issue could be easily solved with a little tinkering

[fin]

My first UQ was just a old rectangular synthetic sleeping bag that I wrapped a marble and tied ropes on the corners - it works great on a bridge because of the rectangular nature of the Bridge - you don't need to cinch the ends as much. I like taking what I have on hand and converting it to my needs. Heck, one of my current UQ's that I like to use in my bridge is a twin down comforter that I bought on sale, and sewed a cover for with drawstring ends and tabs on the corners. It fits the bridge perfectly, but I get too hot when I sleep with it if its over 40*.

A UQ doesn't have to be the $300 model, and it doesn't have to be something sewn. They are nicer and easier to set up, but if you don't have the coin or the skills, you can use anything that fits and insulates as a UQ, including a wool blanket stuffed with your down jacket between the blanket and the hammock.

I can't sleep with pads anymore - I sweat too much if my insulation isn't breathable, and then I get clammy and cold. I've tried different style pads, but if it doesn't breathe, I have problems with sweating.

[BillyBob58]

.........................
Madison, If the cold was the main thing driving you away from hammock camping, I would seriously consider not selling your bridge and experimenting with it some more. I was pretty frustrated after my first full night in my hammock (I'm as new to this as you are), but I feel like I've worked out some of the bugs and am now totally converted to this hammock camping thing. I even set it up inside the house to take naps :D If you found that the hammock otherwise worked for you, I feel like the warmth issue could be easily solved with a little tinkering

What Mustardman said!

Oh man, Madison, I just realized you are the one with everything for sale. I hate to see you give up so quick, especially if cold is your only complaint. Honestly, I nearly froze to death first night in a hammock at 22*F, in a HH Super Shelter. I woke up about 2AM shivering violently, suspended in the hammock net! But that first night is the only actual cold night I have ever had. I have had a few "less than toasty" nights as I have been dealing with the learning curve of different hammocks and warmth systems. Though now I have also had perfectly comfortable 10*F nights! It is really no challenge now for me to stay warm, and I'm sure the same would soon apply to you.

If you have other things about hammocks that you don't like, then you might just be better on the ground. Some folks ( a very few) just never do like hammocks, even after a good fair trial. But if cold is the only problem, then don't give up so quick! You can do the 30s with your hands tied behind your back.

You may remember I gave you a guess that the Ridgerest would be OK to the low 40s or maybe a tad lower. So you were cold in the 30s. Easily solved with a thicker pad. You also need to make sure there was no problem with heat loss from the top, in case you were trying to use that Cat's Meow as a quilt.

[Ramblinrev]

He does acknowledge in his 4 sale post that he is a car camper and day hiker. Given the inflexibility of many campgrounds concerning hanging things from trees I can understand the choice to go back to ground. Still.... nothing like a good hangout with this crew for fellowship, learning and fun. Then again, ground dwellers are not forbidden at gatherings as far as I know.

[Iafte]

Don't give up yet, look how I started.
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/3/0/1/P5050124_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=2277&c=member&orderby=views&direction=DESC&imageuser=301&cutoffdate=-1)

I used that setup on a 3 day trip. I got lucky that it didn't rain or I would of been with my buddy in his tent.

Since you car camp, start with a spare sleeping bag tied up under the hammock. Trust me, I stayed warm at 17 deg while my brother got cold because he rolled off his pad in his tent.

Also, see if you can meet some people local to you so you can see different setups.

[Madison320]

It's not the cold that made me quit. I know I can fix that. It just wasn't as much fun to me as day hiking. I think the weight of the pack (19 lbs total) and the fact that I had to conserve energy took the fun out of the hiking part. I like to hike (or bike) hard knowing I can come home and take a hot shower and relax when I'm done. :)

Plus there's not too many good places to camp where I live (huntsville,al) . There's lot's of great state parks but they don't allow wilderness camping.

[angrysparrow]

Plus there's not too many good places to camp where I live (huntsville,al) . There's lot's of great state parks but they don't allow wilderness camping.

Eh?

Just what springs to mind - What about the Sipsey Wilderness, Dugger Mountain Wilderness, Mt Cheaha, or Walls of Jericho? If you are willing to drive further or if you kayak, there's many more options too. AL has some really fantastic camping.

[Mustardman]

That's funny, I do most of my camping in AL...

Still, sorry to hear the hammock didn't work out for ya. For what it's worth, I plan to use my hammock as much for car camping as for backpacking... I sleep a LOT better in a hammock than I do laying on the ground, and I really hate cots and air mattresses.

[Madison320]

Eh?

Just what springs to mind - What about the Sipsey Wilderness, Dugger Mountain Wilderness, Mt Cheaha, or Walls of Jericho? If you are willing to drive further or if you kayak, there's many more options too. AL has some really fantastic camping.

Sipsey was where I went last weekend.

[Madison320]

So you are saying that using the Ridgerest in the upper 30s, it was too cold? Did you happen to notice if you were cold only under your back, or was it your legs and feet also? ( I'm assuming that inadequate top insulation played no part, no drafts causing cold when you tried to use a bag as a quilt?

Anyway, if it was just your back that was cold, just take a 1/2 length $6 Walmart blue pad and put it under ( or on top) of that Ridgerest. That should make a big difference. If it was also your feet and legs, use it full length.

If you think you need full width ( were your arms and shoulders cold?), just cut that WM pad into 2 or more 25" widths and insert into the JRB so that they cover from side to side. Good luck!

The cold was almost entirely from underneath. The full length. To cure the problem with pads I would have to have another 25X77 pad. Then you'd really be getting into some serious weight, I think. The ridgerest large is 19 ounces. Plus it would be really bulky.

[Mustardman]

The cold was almost entirely from underneath. The full length. To cure the problem with pads I would have to have another 25X77 pad. Then you'd really be getting into some serious weight, I think. The ridgerest large is 19 ounces. Plus it would be really bulky.

Was it from directly underneath, like in the middle of your back, or more to the sides? If it was directly underneath then the pad was just plain inadequate for how cold you sleep. If it was from the sides it was a coverage issue and there are several tricks to fix that.

Rather than adding another pad, I recently became a huge fan of the Exped inflatable mats. A Downmat 7 is about ten ounces heavier than the ridgerest, but it's significantly less bulky and has twice the insulation value. For 5 more ounces, the Downmat 9 is three times as much insulation as the ridgerest.

[BillyBob58]

The cold was almost entirely from underneath. The full length. To cure the problem with pads I would have to have another 25X77 pad. Then you'd really be getting into some serious weight, I think. The ridgerest large is 19 ounces. Plus it would be really bulky.

Yep, if you need 2 full length and width, that is getting a bit much. 38 oz is a lot just for high 30s, plus a lot of bulk. However, you may well not need another pad of equal thickness and weight, but maybe just a 1/4" pad in addition to the Ridgerest.

But I am surprised your feet/legs were cold with even one Ridgerest pad in the high 30s. I'm saying that because many folks have reported needing much less under their legs than under their torso, as people have been using 1/2 length quilts under their upper bodies, with their packs or thin pads under their legs. Actually, I slept out in my JRB BMBH the other night. I have been trying to get the WB torso length UQ to work on it, with at least some success. But I forgot my pads, and was to lazy to drive back to get them. So all I had under my legs was my synthetic Cat's Meow bag. It got down to 40*F ( no wind ) and I slept out under the stars, no tarp. I did OK, though not great. By the time the night was over, I was a little cool under my legs, but not enough to make me go in. Just barely uncomfortable. I definitely could have used my pad and would have been happy to have it. But a very thin pad would have been all I needed, at least under my legs.

But if your legs were cold, then they were cold. One last thing also to consider is that Youngblood has said that pads with ridges, like the Ridgerest, might not be as warm in a hammock as on the ground, or as warm as a non ridge pad of equal thickness. I think that is a correct quote, anyway.

I bet adding a 20" wide WM blue pad($6) full length, you would be fine. And warm enough under your core that you might not even need it full length. Or maybe cut it and add a wide section under just your torso, and a small section under your feet.

Anyway, sorry you have had a tough time with it. I know you are not going to put a lot of bucks into an UQ if you have decided to car camp only and are planning on going back to the ground.

[BillyBob58]

Was it from directly underneath, like in the middle of your back, or more to the sides? If it was directly underneath then the pad was just plain inadequate for how cold you sleep. If it was from the sides it was a coverage issue and there are several tricks to fix that.

Rather than adding another pad, I recently became a huge fan of the Exped inflatable mats. A Downmat 7 is about ten ounces heavier than the ridgerest, but it's significantly less bulky and has twice the insulation value. For 5 more ounces, the Downmat 9 is three times as much insulation as the ridgerest.

Yes, those really add a lot of warmth for the weight, but don't take up near as much room. How wide are those pads? Of course, it might be better to get thinner models and use an SPE with wings.

[FanaticFringer]

Yes, those really add a lot of warmth for the weight, but don't take up near as much room. How wide are those pads? Of course, it might be better to get thinner models and use an SPE with wings.

I've been considering getting a Downmat for my bridge. Gotta figure out what number and what size. SAC will occasionally have good deals on them.

[Mustardman]

The standard size downmat is 20x70, and the DLX is 26x76, for both the 7 and the 9. The only difference between 7 and 9 is thickness. For me, weight and compressibility weren't huge issues, so I went with the less expensive Synmat 7 DLX to get a bit more shoulder coverage. So far it's worked out beautifully, but I could see it being a bit tight in a bridge hammock with a lot of shoulder squeeze - my warbonnet has a lot of space around the shoulders so they don't get too compressed.

I picked mine up from REI - the incredibly generous return policy has protected me from some not-so-smart purchase decisions in the past, and I know if I return something there, another member of the coop is going to get a good deal on the gear at the next scratch-n-dent sale. I've never seen one on Steepandcheap, but I'll be keeping my eyes peeled now (thanks a lot :lol:)

[Madison320]

Was it from directly underneath, like in the middle of your back, or more to the sides? If it was directly underneath then the pad was just plain inadequate for how cold you sleep. If it was from the sides it was a coverage issue and there are several tricks to fix that.

Rather than adding another pad, I recently became a huge fan of the Exped inflatable mats. A Downmat 7 is about ten ounces heavier than the ridgerest, but it's significantly less bulky and has twice the insulation value. For 5 more ounces, the Downmat 9 is three times as much insulation as the ridgerest.

It was in the middle. The pad I was using is 25". Someone mentioned that the ridge rest might not work as well as others because it is designed to trap air. I think this is correct. It's really a very thin mattress and it may only work if it's on the ground where it can trap air.

That downmat sounds like it would work really well especially if it comes in a 25-26" width. I would not recommend using a 20" pad for 2 reasons. One is that it would shift inside the pad sleeve and two is that it wouldn't provide good coverage.

[FanaticFringer]

It was in the middle. The pad I was using is 25". Someone mentioned that the ridge rest might not work as well as others because it is designed to trap air. I think this is correct. It's really a very thin mattress and it may only work if it's on the ground where it can trap air.

That downmat sounds like it would work really well especially if it comes in a 25-26" width. I would not recommend using a 20" pad for 2 reasons. One is that it would shift inside the pad sleeve and two is that it wouldn't provide good coverage.

The Ridgerest works just fine in my bridge hammock. A 20" wide downmat with a Speer SPE should work well used outside of the pad sleeve.

[Madison320]

The Ridgerest works just fine in my bridge hammock. A 20" wide downmat with a Speer SPE should work well used outside of the pad sleeve.

I guess it's all relative. I'm a cold sleeper plus it must have got down close to freezing. The forecast was a low of 40F but part of my camp towel was stiff in the morning.

There's a slightly thicker ridgerest I think it's called the ridgerest deluxe. It's like .75" compared to .61". That's only 20% thicker though.

The true test would be for someone to try all these different options in their backyard at the same time to see what is the warmest you can get for a given weight. I'm starting to think a down UQ combined with a down sleeping bag would be warmest by weight.

[FanaticFringer]

I guess it's all relative. I'm a cold sleeper plus it must have got down close to freezing. The forecast was a low of 40F but part of my camp towel was stiff in the morning.

There's a slightly thicker ridgerest I think it's called the ridgerest deluxe. It's like .75" compared to .61". That's only 20% thicker though.

The true test would be for someone to try all these different options in their backyard at the same time to see what is the warmest you can get for a given weight. I'm starting to think a down UQ combined with a down sleeping bag would be warmest by weight.

I have the Ridgerest deluxe. NIce pad. Now that I think about it, using a SPE with a downmat might not work as well as I'm thinking. Assuming a 20" wide downmat. I normally only use one pad in each wing sleeve in the SPE and this would leave the pad/wing combo pretty uneven.

[Just Jeff]

I'm starting to think a down UQ combined with a down sleeping bag would be warmest by weight.

Warmest by weight would be a CCF pad underneath. Warmest by bulk would be a down underquilt, followed closely by a down-insulated inflatable. Most comfortable at a given temp would be a matter of preference.