Grommets Ripping Out?

[sparkysko]

Well, they're not grommets, Walmart sells them as 'extra large eyelets' (much cheaper than the grommet kit they sell in sporting goods). I've tried 1 layer of ripstop, 2 layers, 1 layer of webbing, 2 layers of webbing, every time i've attached one, i've tied a cord into the grommet and pulled pretty hard to test it's strength. Every method I have tried so far has had the fabric bunch up in the direction of pull, and pull away from the hole and enlarge it opposite the direction of pull. None of this is satisfactory. These eyelets are the ones with metal 'fingers' that bend and lock the piece in place, as opposed to the normal camping grommets which are smooth metal all around, not sure if it matters. Maybe i'm not hammering them in enough. Not sure which part of the grommet is supposed to have the holding power.

What type of grommets/eyelets have you used for your tie-outs? What type of reinforcement? Any tricks?

[blackbishop351]

Well, they're not grommets, Walmart sells them as 'extra large eyelets' (much cheaper than the grommet kit they sell in sporting goods). I've tried 1 layer of ripstop, 2 layers, 1 layer of webbing, 2 layers of webbing, every time i've attached one, i've tied a cord into the grommet and pulled pretty hard to test it's strength. Every method I have tried so far has had the fabric bunch up in the direction of pull, and pull away from the hole and enlarge it opposite the direction of pull. None of this is satisfactory. These eyelets are the ones with metal 'fingers' that bend and lock the piece in place, as opposed to the normal camping grommets which are smooth metal all around, not sure if it matters. Maybe i'm not hammering them in enough. Not sure which part of the grommet is supposed to have the holding power.

What type of grommets/eyelets have you used for your tie-outs? What type of reinforcement? Any tricks?

IMO most types of grommets are going to weaken the material. And they're heavy. I use nylon webbing loops for my tie-outs, with the possible addition of nylon/plastic d-rings or tri-rings.

[Coffee]

Can you post a pic of what you are talking about with the material bunching?

I my GGR tie outs on my tarp and have not had any problems. I reinforced them with 1.9 oz ripstop. For my tarp placement of the stakes and where they pull makes a big difference on the pitch.

[Frolicking Dino]

Gommets and XL eyelets on tarps must have at least one layer of sturdy fabric to reinforce them -- I use two.

[lvleph]

I would have to see a picture to even give an worthwhile comments.

[sparkysko]

Here's the pic, this is on a double layer of 1" poly webbing (i think, it's the tie-down straps sold in walmart). With an extra large grommet. this is after i've done my strength test.

[blackbishop351]

Here's the pic, this is on a double layer of 1" poly webbing (i think, it's the tie-down straps sold in walmart). With an extra large grommet. this is after i've done my strength test.

Yup, that looks like the results from every DIY grommet kit I've ever used.

[lvleph]

You could always use the 1" D-rings like that on MacCat Tarps.

[slowhike]

when hammock engineer said GGR, he was referring to grosgrain ribbon.
that's one of the easiest & most commonly used methods for attaching guy lines to a light weight tarp.
the corner reinforcement mentioned can be seen in this pic by blackbishop http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/7/blackCatM2-8.JPG
you can also see the webbing he used as a tie-out. webbing (either 3/4" or 1") is great too & even stronger.
but i've never had GGR to break. matter of fact, on a recent trip the corner of my tarp tore on a high wind night, but it was because i had used a lesser fabric for the corner reinforcement. the GGR tie-out was fine. http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/2/5/P2180045.JPG

[sparkysko]

well, i was hoping to put rivets in just in case i want to shove a stick or hiking pole or whatever through the hole, although i don't have a hiking pole, so it's not too much of a loss. Or are you referring to using the D-rings and stuff to attach the rope?

[slowhike]

well, i was hoping to put rivets in just in case i want to shove a stick or hiking pole or whatever through the hole, although i don't have a hiking pole, so it's not too much of a loss. Or are you referring to using the D-rings and stuff to attach the rope?

there's ways to use a stick or pole w/ the d-rings or the GGR tie-outs.

[sparkysko]

The only reinforcing i've done is double hem all the edges, they're all 3 layers thick and 1 inch wide. I then put the webbing side by side like (not on top of each other) and sewed the crap out of it. along the ridgeline, it's already 4 layers thick from the lap fell seam, and then i double hemmed the edge as well, so i have a total of 16 layers where i attached my webbing. The 3 layer thick 1 inch wide seam is strong enough for me to sit on when i'm getting in and out of a hammock, i figured it'd probably be good enough for the tarp too. Although I think additional strength can be had by applying 'liquid stitch' into the hemmed edges as well. That stuff is tough as nails. basically end up laminating layers together.

[blackbishop351]

The only reinforcing i've done is double hem all the edges, they're all 3 layers thick and 1 inch wide. I then put the webbing side by side like (not on top of each other) and sewed the crap out of it. along the ridgeline, it's already 4 layers thick from the lap fell seam, and then i double hemmed the edge as well, so i have a total of 16 layers where i attached my webbing. The 3 layer thick 1 inch wide seam is strong enough for me to sit on when i'm getting in and out of a hammock, i figured it'd probably be good enough for the tarp too. Although I think additional strength can be had by applying 'liquid stitch' into the hemmed edges as well. That stuff is tough as nails. basically end up laminating layers together.

It's not the thickness of the hem that'll give you a problem. It's the single-layer material at the edge of the hem, where the last line of stitch is. That's why you want some sort of reinforcement patches - to spread the force over a greater area. If you attach directly to the hem and nothing else, a good strong wind will tear the hem right off the tarp body.

What kind of webbing are you using? Grosgrain? I think GG probably works fine, but using thicker nylon webbing doesn't add much weight and (I assume) is much stronger. It's also a good idea to double the webbing over/under the tarp, so you're sewing through both layers of webbing with the same stitch. This compresses the tarp material in between and distributes the force across the whole attachment area, not just on the stitches. The main force on the stitching is then also transferred to the webbing instead of the tarp, so you're less likely to get tears started.

[slowhike]

you know, come to think of it, my first DIY tarp (a ray way tarp) didn't have re-enforcement at the tie-outs either. and it's still going strong.
but the main thing i would suggest is not putting grommets in the tie-outs.
they will weaken the webbing.
besides, you can do just as much if not more with out the grommets when it comes to attaching poles & sticks to hold the tarp sides up higher.

[lvleph]

well, i was hoping to put rivets in just in case i want to shove a stick or hiking pole or whatever through the hole, although i don't have a hiking pole, so it's not too much of a loss. Or are you referring to using the D-rings and stuff to attach the rope?

I was referring to both.

[sparkysko]

What kind of webbing are you using? Grosgrain? I think GG probably works fine, but using thicker nylon webbing doesn't add much weight and (I assume) is much stronger. It's also a good idea to double the webbing over/under the tarp, so you're sewing through both layers of webbing with the same stitch. This compresses the tarp material in between and distributes the force across the whole attachment area, not just on the stitches. The main force on the stitching is then also transferred to the webbing instead of the tarp, so you're less likely to get tears started.

I'm using 1" wide tie-down straps for backpacks. They're side by side, so a total of 2 inches wide, and I have them on the fabric an additional 2 inches deep. So far so good. I was thinking about sewing them over/under on top of each other, but then I read someone else recommend that the increased surface area was better. The way I have it now introduces alot of weird stress, I'm sure it's alot easier to plan for reinforcement if you're doing over/under.

[blackbishop351]

I'm using 1" wide tie-down straps for backpacks. They're side by side, so a total of 2 inches wide, and I have them on the fabric an additional 2 inches deep. So far so good. I was thinking about sewing them over/under on top of each other, but then I read someone else recommend that the increased surface area was better. The way I have it now introduces alot of weird stress, I'm sure it's alot easier to plan for reinforcement if you're doing over/under.

Sounds like you're going in the right direction! My webbing, like yours, is lapped and sewn 2" into the tarp. From experience, I think a single 1" width, lapped 2: deep, should be plenty attachment area. I use 3/4" webbing on mine, doubled over/under, and haven't had any problems at all through two HEAVY windstorm nights. If it's something you could change easily, though, I'd definitely recommend the over/under attachment and reinforcement patches. The patches don't have to be anything major - I use the same 1.9 oz. untreated ripstop I make hammocks out of - just something with some extra strength to distribute the force more evenly.

[stoikurt]

Whatever way you go the poles can easily be used. I've used my poles upside down with the tip poking through the ribbon loop (this works if your poles have baskets). My last time out I tied a clove hitch with the tie out line around the pole handle right up next to the ribbon loop. Get your corners figured out the you'll find a way to use your poles.

[blackbishop351]

Whatever way you go the poles can easily be used. I've used my poles upside down with the tip poking through the ribbon loop (this works if your poles have baskets). My last time out I tied a clove hitch with the tie out line around the pole handle right up next to the ribbon loop. Get your corners figured out the you'll find a way to use your poles.

I keep mini biners on the handles of my poles for clipping into the tie-outs on my tarp. There's definitely lots of ways to use the poles without grommets.

[Iafte]

One option is to sew around the grommet to strengthen it up. Problem with webbing is once you have cut it to get the grommet through, you loose alot of the strength it once had. Sewing either in a square or a circle should stop the bunching and pulling.

[slowhike]

One option is to sew around the grommet to strengthen it up. Problem with webbing is once you have cut it to get the grommet through, you loose alot of the strength it once had. Sewing either in a square or a circle should stop the bunching and pulling.

or cut the gromment off & sew a new webbing loop to the remaining tab.

[Just Jeff]

Welcome to the forum, Iafte!

Maybe I missed it from the original poster - is there a reason to use grommets instead of a D-ring or something?

[Iafte]

or cut the gromment off & sew a new webbing loop to the remaining tab.

I just made a tarp about a month ago, I used loops for all the connections except for the ridge line, I put a grommet so I could either use a pole to support it or tie it off.


Welcome to the forum, Iafte!

Thanks. :D

[funbun]

I just made a tarp about a month ago, I used loops for all the connections except for the ridge line, I put a grommet so I could either use a pole to support it or tie it off.



Thanks. :D

Do you need a grommet for that? A D-ring would do the trick just fine. Or couldn't you just wrap the guyline around the trekking pole?

[Iafte]

Do you need a grommet for that? A D-ring would do the trick just fine. Or couldn't you just wrap the guyline around the trekking pole?

First project for me and I wanted to see what I could make. I don't have to use the grommet to tie it off; when I made it, I left enough webbing to have a loop before where I put the grommet.

It is made like below so I can run a line through the open section and tie that off. Main reason for this is I don't own hiking poles yet. :eek:


........|
________|_______________
|Tarp | Open | () |
------------------------
........|
........|

[Peter_pan]

Review the tarp market....

Many low end, entry level or in expensive poly tarps use grommets....

Almost every specialty manufacturer, upper end level, UL tarp maker ( save one?) uses GG, or GG and D rings or, or light weight webbing.

Lot of experiance here....Wonder why they take this approach?

Are you trying to use a go cart approach to achieve a race car product?

GG loops are easily sized and positioned to accept hiking poles at the ridge tie outs, or any other point for that matter.

Recommend giving up on adding layers,weight and spending time on the grommet approach....just my 0.02.

Pan

[slowhike]

it's easy to put a clove hitch on a stick & tie it to a GG loop.

[tamboo]

Wow, lots of grommet haters.

[blackbishop351]

Wow, lots of grommet haters.

After the wind I've been through on my last couple of trips, I'm really skeptical of using anything on my tarp that might induce a failure point. Not hate, just practicality and paranoia :p

[Coffee]

Wow, lots of grommet haters.

I just agree with pan on the weight thing.

Plus you are cutting into the fabric and making a hole. This has to make it weaker. Kind of like how a solid wall is stronger than a wall with a window.


BTW, happy 1K post to me.:D :D Man I need a new hobby.

[slowhike]

I just agree with pan on the weight thing.

Plus you are cutting into the fabric and making a hole. This has to make it weaker. Kind of like how a solid wall is stronger than a wall with a window.


BTW, happy 1K post to me.:D :D Man I need a new hobby.

man... your fingers will be typing in the air as you hike the AT!

[Just Jeff]

And when he sees something cool, his first thought will be, "Man, I gotta post that!"

Agree with the others on grommets. Assuming all the high quality manufacturers test their gear, there's a reason they don't use grommets.

[sparkysko]

Finally found a good use for grommets however. They make good string-holes for the drawstrings on stuff sacks. I don't even bother piercing the hole first, I just attach the grommet, then stab the hole with a knife, and voila.