View Full Version : Supershelter @ -27F
Shug and I headed up to the Superior Trail for a coupla nights of snowshoeing. My gear was my typical HH stock configuration with added insulation. Hammock picture here: http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/1/2/5/0/p1130024_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=4751&c=2) That's me with my head behind the tree...
Yes, my tarp isn't real taut, but we weren't expecting any snow so I didn't bother to tighten it up.
Gear common to both nights:
Hammock: HH Explorer UL, stock tarp, Supershelter + overcover
Bag: 0F REI Zenith mummy bag, synthetic insulation
Clothing, torso: smartwool SS T-shirt, LS Powerdry shirt, Marmot Precip jacket for VB
Clothing, legs: Powerdry longjohns, Marmot Precip pants as VB, polypro ski pants, 200 wt Polarfleece pants
Feet: silk liner socks, bread bag for VB, heavy wool socks, 400g Thinsulate boot liners. 1L insulated Nalgene filled w/ boiling water pressed against bottom of feet.
Head: Psolarx fleece balaclava without the heat exchanger
Night one, -5F: in my Undercover, in addition to standard space blanket, did my typical cold-weather configuration of Exped Multimat on the bottom, and a down jacket under my back in between the OCF and Multimat.
Clothing - Torso: 200 wt Polarfleece pullover as outer layer
Night two, -27F: added my down +30F REI Sahara down bag between Multimat and OCF in the UC.
Bag: added fleece bag liner, and Primaloft parka thrown over legs
Clothing - Torso: 300 wt Polarfleece as outer layer
Clothing - Neck: fleece neck gaiter to pull up over eyes
Picture of me in the 300 wt Polarfleece here: http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/1/2/5/0/p1130026_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=4752&c=2)
This is an LL Bean Ascent jacket that I highly recommend for VERY cold weather. It is much too warm to hike in when the temps are > 0F, but I was comfortable hiking at -20F and it worked well at night.
I was plenty warm both nights. No sensation of cold except for the bridge of my exposed nose.
The hassle factor on night two was excessive. I do OK getting into a mummy bag in my HH, but the fleece liner was a struggle with the fleece clothing I was wearing as an outer layer and little wiggle room with all the layers on. Too much friction, no sliding, no space.
The overcover worked well - really kept the cold wind off of me. Lots of condensation on night two - about 1/4" on my reading glasses hanging from the RL.
The down bag as an underquilt worked very well. The SS OCF pad is "sticky", and I use the Exped Multimat with the "sticky" side up so anything I put between them stays in place all night long without moving with no cords, tiedowns, etc.
The synthetic mummy bag contributes a lot to the warmth. It doesn't compress nearly as much as a down bag so I needed a big pack (90L) to carry it in, but didn't compress as much beneath me either.
I used a lot of fleece in my configuration, and that holds up well under compression as well.
This was my first attempt using VB liners. The Precip jacket and pants helped out a lot, but getting the pants off & on to pee was a pain in the butt due to the Velcro attachments and zippers on the side. The bread bags worked great as VB socks, but I used them only at night, I didn't hike with them.
Summary: it is possible to use a stock Hennessy configuration with Supershelter in arctic-type conditions with the addition of a LOT of additional insulation. I was able to re-purpose gear I already had without going out and spending a bundle on down UQ's.
What would I do differently? If I had unlimited $ I'd go out and buy a -40F bag. The biggest irritation was all the !@#$%^&* layers I had to wear. On night two I had to pee 3 times (it was a good thing I had a Gatorade bottle in the hammock so I didn't have to venture out), and getting all my pants pulled back up properly was a pain. The first time I got all done and noticed my underpants were still down around my knees:cursing: Plus with a -40F bag I wouldn't have to change my clothes so much from what I was hiking in. Nothing like getting down to your skivvies at -27F in the morning to get your blood pumping :woot:
What I'd like to hear from other folks is: "What's in your Undercover?". I've tried all sorts of things, from Garlingtion insulators to parkas, and you can see where I've ended up. I'd like to hear what others have tried and not abandoned.
Hope you find this useful.
--Kurt
thats the post i've been waiting for
stoikurt
01-14-2009, 17:41
Wow, that's great. I can't even imagine temperatures like that!
Youngblood
01-14-2009, 19:18
Wow, that's great. I can't even imagine temperatures like that!
You don't get those in Panama City?:D
That's alright, they would melt in Panama City in July.
where in your clothing order did you wear the Precip jacket and pants?
MacEntyre
01-14-2009, 20:23
Kurt, great report!
I have three questions, if you don't mind...
Did you have any trouble getting the tension of the UC right when you added the sleeping bag between the pads?
Did you prepare your feet inside the hammock, or before entering?
How in the world did you get into the stock hammock with all that gear inside? :scared:
hikingjer
01-14-2009, 20:34
Wow!, -27 F and warm at night.
A lot of that gear you'd have to carry anyway if sleeping on the ground. Do you know about how much lighter your load would've been if you slept on the ground?
where in your clothing order did you wear the Precip jacket and pants?
Directly on top of the base layer, i.e. as close to skin as possible, yet not directly touching the skin. Beneath all the fleece and polypro layers.
--Kurt
Did you have any trouble getting the tension of the UC right when you added the sleeping bag between the pads?
Did you prepare your feet inside the hammock, or before entering?
How in the world did you get into the stock hammock with all that gear inside? :scared:
I never tension the UC. I pull the prusiks to tension the tarp and the UC gets what it gets.
I prepare my feet before entering. When I enter I slip off the shell of my pac boots leaving the liners on, and sleep with them on. In the morning I have nice toasty boots :)
I simply back into the hammock. Its really not a problem. The problem is getting into the gear once I'm in.
--Kurt
A lot of that gear you'd have to carry anyway if sleeping on the ground. Do you know about how much lighter your load would've been if you slept on the ground?
That was kinda my goal, to re-purpose as many items as possible. I'm cheap.
Maybe a pound or two lighter on the ground. My Thermarest Prolite-4 for ground dwelling is 2 lbs, my tent is 1 lb heavier than my HH. Subtract the extra down bag, SS, a few clothing layers, probably get to 1-2 lbs less than my HH weight.
The difference is negligible when I'm carrying close to 50 lbs on my back. Its the difference of a 1-liter water bottle full versus empty...
--Kurt
A lot of that gear you'd have to carry anyway if sleeping on the ground.
BTW, that was the motive for using the Precip jacket and pants as a VB. I carry them anyway during the Winter as a wind shell and for wet snow. Might as well wear them at night. They do breathe a little, I have no way of measuring exactly how much. All I know is my sleeping bag was much drier inside than my previous trip where I could feel the ice crystals beneath the bag shell, and I was warmer. They did feel a little clammy, but hey that's the whole idea, right?
--Kurt
How did you keep your water from freezing? And what did you do for water, melt snow?
BillyBob58
01-14-2009, 23:13
Great adventure and report. You no doubt will struggle much less once you have a roomy bag closer to the temp you are expecting, rather than struggling with so many layers. OTOH, if you need most of those layers for when you are not in the hammock/sleeping bag, then you will have to carry their weight any way. But on the other other hand , if you don't need those layers in your sleeping bag, they can go down below to either increase warmth or possibly allow you to lighten up on whatever you already have down in there. Of course, one of your main goals was to use what you already have, and you have succeeded grandly.
The only items I have used ( and not abandoned) in the UC are clothing and Garlington insulators. I also have extra OCF pads, in the form of HH kidney/torso pads. But then I'm not dealing with -27! As far as I know, you are now the record holder for the SS with or without all the extra augmentation.
Please give us your thinking for the Exped in the UC. It is obviously working for you, I'm just not sure how. A pad in the UC is actually advised against by HH. You already described the "sticky" factor of both the HH OCF and the Exped keeping insulation in place. But here is what I am thinking: Your Exped causes a gap, normally a bad thing. However, you are placing high lofting insulation between the HH and Exped pads, which will close the gap. The gap caused by the exped greatly decreases any compression of down that would be normally caused by the UC.
If that is not it, what do you think is the benefit of the Exped in the UC, insulation wise?
HappyCamper
01-15-2009, 07:04
Congrats on a successful trip! Amazing temps! So how did you sleep in your hammock once situated? Did you like it better than in a tent at these conditions? Did you like it better than in a tent when you weren't sleeping? Did you all make a fire? It looks like you have the originial suspension on your HH??? Any trouble with getting the right hang and the knots at these temps?
The picture of you and your pack looks like you may have a drinking tube??? How did you keep that from freezing up?
How did you keep your water from freezing? And what did you do for water, melt snow?
I am testing an insulated Platy for BGT:
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Hydration%20Systems/Bladders/Platypus%20Insulator%20Hydration%20System/Test%20Report%20by%20Kurt%20Papke/
Also used an insulated Nalgene.
Yep, all water came from melted snow.
--Kurt
So how did you sleep in your hammock once situated? Did you like it better than in a tent at these conditions? Did you like it better than in a tent when you weren't sleeping? Did you all make a fire? It looks like you have the originial suspension on your HH??? Any trouble with getting the right hang and the knots at these temps?
The picture of you and your pack looks like you may have a drinking tube??? How did you keep that from freezing up?
I slept very well actually.
Since I bought my HH in March I've only spent one night in a tent, at Teddy Roosevelt NP where there are no trees to hang from.
No fire -- with 3 feet of snow on the ground its too hard to gather wood, clear a spot, etc. Plus we were plenty busy with other chores. Shug did bring a tea candle, but that didn't provide much warmth, though I really enjoyed the pleasant light it gave off.
Yes, I have the original suspension on my HH, I've made no mods whatsoever to it. The HH figure 8 hitch works just fine at any temperature.
As I mentioned in another post I'm testing an insulated Platy for BGT. I didn't keep it from freezing up after the first night :(
--Kurt
animalcontrol
01-15-2009, 08:26
Congrats!
Something I haven't read anywhere from you or Shug...pack weight? Do you consider (worry) about pack weight or just volume?
At those temps, is it a conscious plan or "bring all you need X2" mentality. Ultra lightweight mistakes will kill you at -25*...just curious to how you approach it.
Youngblood
01-15-2009, 08:31
...
Please give us your thinking for the Exped in the UC. It is obviously working for you, I'm just not sure how. A pad in the UC is actually advised against by HH. You already described the "sticky" factor of both the HH OCF and the Exped keeping insulation in place. But here is what I am thinking: Your Exped causes a gap, normally a bad thing. However, you are placing high lofting insulation between the HH and Exped pads, which will close the gap. The gap caused by the exped greatly decreases any compression of down that would be normally caused by the UC.
If that is not it, what do you think is the benefit of the Exped in the UC, insulation wise?
BillyBob,
I think staying warm at those temperatures means what he had didn't have any issues with air gaps. I suspect he had enough insulation between the bottom silnylon to fill it all in with only slight compression. Not enough compression to cause him to get cold. I thought he was using an Exped Multimat which I think is a fairly flexible piece of very thin closed cell foam pad that has nylon attached to one side.
BTW, that was the motive for using the Precip jacket and pants as a VB. I carry them anyway during the Winter as a wind shell and for wet snow. Might as well wear them at night. They do breathe a little, I have no way of measuring exactly how much. All I know is my sleeping bag was much drier inside than my previous trip where I could feel the ice crystals beneath the bag shell, and I was warmer. They did feel a little clammy, but hey that's the whole idea, right?
--Kurt
You have it figured out and did great. There are tradeoffs and possibly being a little clammy versus staying warmer and keeping moisture out of your sleeping bag at those low temps are the biggies.
if you don't need those layers in your sleeping bag, they can go down below to either increase warmth or possibly allow you to lighten up on whatever you already have down in there.
...snip...
Please give us your thinking for the Exped in the UC. It is obviously working for you, I'm just not sure how. A pad in the UC is actually advised against by HH. You already described the "sticky" factor of both the HH OCF and the Exped keeping insulation in place. But here is what I am thinking: Your Exped causes a gap, normally a bad thing. However, you are placing high lofting insulation between the HH and Exped pads, which will close the gap. The gap caused by the exped greatly decreases any compression of down that would be normally caused by the UC.
If that is not it, what do you think is the benefit of the Exped in the UC, insulation wise?
The only extra layer in the bag that was not multipurpose was the fleece liner. It is very bulky and quite heavy. Its weight plus that of my 0F bag is roughly the same as a -40 bag. If I had the $ I'd upgrade to a -40F bag in a heartbeat to reduce the hassle factor.
I think you've correctly analyzed how everything is working in the UC. How much its really adding in these conditions I do not know, as I haven't tried the same configuration minus the pad. In the testing I did last Fall where I was adding only the Multimat, it seemed to give me about another 10F.
It was -23F in my backyard last night, but I wasn't up for any more cold testing. My wife thinks I'm crazy enough already.
--Kurt
Something I haven't read anywhere from you or Shug...pack weight? Do you consider (worry) about pack weight or just volume?
At those temps, is it a conscious plan or "bring all you need X2" mentality. Ultra lightweight mistakes will kill you at -25*...just curious to how you approach it.
I was at 47.2 lbs on day 1, and about 51 lbs day 2 with the added fleece liner and down bag. Shug was a few pounds lighter than I was, I'm sure he'll mention it in his video.
Sure I worry about both pack weight and volume. I'm using a High Sierra Long Trail 90:
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Packs/Internal%20and%20External%20Framed%20Backpacks/High%20Sierra%20Long%20Trail%2090/Test%20Report%20by%20Kurt%20Papke/
On day 2 I had my Nalgene, the Multimat, SS OCF pad plus my down bag I used as an underquilt all hanging off the back of my pack. Photo Shug took is here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9386991@N04/3196500849/in/set-72157612560883800/
I don't think I could have carried much more bulk, though a few more pounds would not have been a problem.
Shug was using a pulk sled to minimize carried weight and bulk, and we'll hear about that in his trip video. He carried my Primaloft parka in his sled, so even with everything I had loaded up I had overflow.
--Kurt
you are hardcore dude:shades:neo
animalcontrol
01-15-2009, 10:04
I was at 47.2 lbs on day 1, and about 51 lbs day 2 with the added fleece liner and down bag. Shug was a few pounds lighter than I was, I'm sure he'll mention it in his video.
Sure I worry about both pack weight and volume. I'm using a High Sierra Long Trail 90:
Photo Shug took is here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9386991@N04/3196500849/in/set-72157612560883800/
I don't think I could have carried much more bulk, though a few more pounds would not have been a problem.
Shug was using a pulk sled to minimize carried weight and bulk, and we'll hear about that in his trip video. He carried my Primaloft parka in his sled, so even with everything I had loaded up I had overflow.
--Kurt
Thanks for the pic...I like the way you strapped the bags to the bottom of your pack...
Well done both of you!
-27F is **** cold.
I have 25F here at the moment, should have around 5F.
Coldest so far this winter is 5F (Yes , hanged :) )
**** warm weather :)
I don't think i ever said that, before this winter.
As I mentioned in another post I'm testing an insulated Platy for BGT. I didn't keep it from freezing up after the first night :(
--Kurt
I used a Source fully insulated bag and hose in 17.6F.
(The Swedish army is supposed to use the same)
The bag was alright, it just laid open on some gear through the night.
It had some ice in it next morning, but ok.
But the hose was a joke, it was totally frozen after 10 min on the trail :D
Thanks for a nice report!
BillyBob58
01-15-2009, 13:27
BillyBob,
I think staying warm at those temperatures means what he had didn't have any issues with air gaps. I suspect he had enough insulation between the bottom silnylon to fill it all in with only slight compression. Not enough compression to cause him to get cold. I thought he was using an Exped Multimat which I think is a fairly flexible piece of very thin closed cell foam pad that has nylon attached to one side.................
Hi YB,
Yes, I fully agree that that he obviously didn't have any issues with air gaps, as he was plenty warm at -27. Whatever he is doing is working, and has launched him to apparent SS world champ. ( I think he probably could have gone even further down in temps).
And he is using an Exped MM, not against his back, but down in the UC. Where it should normally cause problems according to official, accepted SS theory. ;) I was just trying to get an understanding of why he has gone that route to start with. But whatever made him go this route to start with, Kurt did reply that my theory on why it is working may be correct. That is, whatever gap he is causing is being more than adequately filled by whatever insulation he is putting down there. And it appears that, as long as you have something to fill the space, the gap is in this case an advantage as it prevents most of the partial compression of insulation that would be caused
by the normal tension of the SS UC's elastics.
Very interesting approach. Particularly if you already have a SS and want to get the max out of it, rather than making new purchases. Or, just for the plain old challenge!
Here is another question:
Night one, -5F: in my Undercover, in addition to standard space blanket, did my typical cold-weather configuration of Exped Multimat on the bottom, and a down jacket under my back in between the OCF and Multimat..............
Night two, -27F: added my down +30F REI Sahara down bag between Multimat and OCF in the UC.
Bag: added fleece bag liner, and Primaloft parka thrown over legs
So was the down jacket AND the 30* bag down in the UC for night 2? I was impresed if a 30*F bag, even top plus bottom loft, would hack it on the bottom ( where it is just so extra cold feeling and windy anyway) at -27*F! So I figured you also used your down jacket?
Being inspired by you, I have been playing around putting my WBUQ ( CS) in there! Once I placed a 15*F bag in there. It weighed 3 lbs, so I had to put extra tension on the UC to avoid a tremendous gap. But boy was it warm!
Hey Kurt,
Great review! -27*F???? BRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!
I have done some minus temps in my HH ULBA with Super Shelter. I would set up the SS with the OC foam pad in between the undercover and bottom of the hammock, as normal. I would also put my ski jacket and pants underneath my sleeping bag as a cold barrier. I also used a Cabelas -40*F goose down mummy bag, too.
Recently, I've created a Custom HH Super Shelter.
You can read the reviews here...
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6555
The only other thought is having the #2 bugnet zipper mod done on your HH. This would now allow you to use a PeaPod with your HH. You could use a PeaPod, your +30*F sleeping bag, and the undercover and overcover (don't need the SS foam pad) to stay very warm in minus temps.
I have tried this out and it works great and pleny warm. I can put the PeaPod underneath the undercover and overcover. Some light condensation, but mostly on the top of the overcover. Just a thought for you instead of carrying foam pads or downmats.
Also, if your interested, Cabelas has the XPG -40*F Expedition Goose Down mummy bag ON SALE right now. A very good deal for this bag and just as nice as a TNF or Feathered Friends. I highly recommend this goose down bag!! Check it out at...
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp;jsessionid=DIYM1SQ3HNVL3LAQBBKCCOVMCAEFKI WE?id=0045506517279a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=down+sleeping+bag&sort=all&Go.y=4&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&Go.x=19&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_requestid=59712
This Cabelas goose down bag compresses very small. To help keep my pack weight down, I use an XL Sea to Summit SN240 Silnylon compression bag, instead of the stock compression bag. FYI.
The more camping you do in freezing, sub zero weather, the easier it will seem each time you go. You will also be able to see what works and what doesn't. It will allow you to revise your gear, until you find what comfortably works for you.
Congrats on your trip!
Youngblood
01-15-2009, 16:18
And he is using an Exped MM, not against his back, but down in the UC. Where it should normally cause problems according to official, accepted SS theory. ;) I was just trying to get an understanding of why he has gone that route to start with. But whatever made him go this route to start with, Kurt did reply that my theory on why it is working may be correct. That is, whatever gap he is causing is being more than adequately filled by whatever insulation he is putting down there. And it appears that, as long as you have something to fill the space, the gap is in this case an advantage as it prevents most of the partial compression of insulation that would be caused
by the normal tension of the SS UC's elastics.
I agree with you BillyBob, I would have thought the pad would do better laying directly on it, but you never know because it is an insulated vapor barrier and I wouldn't be surprised if multiple (insulated) vapor barriers in or around breathable insulation changed things in ways we don't appreciate/understand (or at least I don't). I didn't know if there was some confusion about what the Multi Mat was. If it was a stiff inflatable mat or thicker and stiffer closed cell foam pad, the results might not have been the same. But since he slept at -27F, he knows more about how to do that I and I certainly don't want to challenge that temp.:D
So was the down jacket AND the 30* bag down in the UC for night 2? I was impresed if a 30*F bag, even top plus bottom loft, would hack it on the bottom ( where it is just so extra cold feeling and windy anyway) at -27*F! So I figured you also used your down jacket?
Yes, both the down jacket and 30* bag were between the OCF and Multimat. I figured what the heck, might as well, I carried the jacket (for breaks), might as well use it where I can. To be honest, the bag dwarfed the jacket. We're not talking a big puffy parka, we're talking a Montbell Permafrost jacket. I'd say 80% of the insulation was the bag on night 2.
--Kurt
I wouldn't be surprised if multiple (insulated) vapor barriers in or around breathable insulation changed things in ways we don't appreciate/understand (or at least I don't). I didn't know if there was some confusion about what the Multi Mat was. If it was a stiff inflatable mat or thicker and stiffer closed cell foam pad, the results might not have been the same.
There's no confusion on what the Multimat is - its a thin CCF pad.
My guess, and that's all it is a guess, is that the warmth of my under-hammock insulation had nothing to do with VB effect. More likely, the Multimat and the SB are acting as airtight barriers, and with all that down between them filling the void it just makes a pretty good insulator.
Its not just the stuff in the UC either. I had the bottom of my 0F synthetic bag under me in the hammock and a ton of fleece clothing. It all adds up.
--Kurt
Also, if your interested, Cabelas has the XPG -40*F Expedition Goose Down mummy bag ON SALE right now. A very good deal for this bag and just as nice as a TNF or Feathered Friends.
I was just looking at that this morning. Nice bag, but the Long (I'm 6' 4" tall) is still $430, too rich for my blood.
Shug and I were discussing that up on the trail. It would be really nice to have a spendy -40* bag, but how many days/year would we use it? Lots of cash for not too many nights.
--Kurt
I was just looking at that this morning. Nice bag, but the Long (I'm 6' 4" tall) is still $430, too rich for my blood.
Shug and I were discussing that up on the trail. It would be really nice to have a spendy -40* bag, but how many days/year would we use it? Lots of cash for not too many nights.
--Kurt
Hey Kurt,
I agree, it's a lot of dinero.
This Cabelas XPG -40*F goose down bag is the only sleeping bag I own and use. I find that camping in the higher elevation of the Rockies, temps can get down into the 30's anyways, even during the summer. So, it does come in handy to have this bag and be prepared for the worst. In warmer weather/nights, I do find myself unzipping the bag and just laying on top of it because it does get warm. Also, the goose down does breathe and I find that it doesn't get too warm, yet it keeps you super warm in minus temps. Something to consider.
Overall, the materials and craftsmanship of this Cabelas bag are just as nice as a $750+ big name goose down bag.
Just wanted to share some thoughts with you and LOL!
BillyBob58
01-15-2009, 23:27
I agree with you BillyBob, I would have thought the pad would do better laying directly on it, but you never know because it is an insulated vapor barrier and I wouldn't be surprised if multiple (insulated) vapor barriers in or around breathable insulation changed things in ways we don't appreciate/understand (or at least I don't). I didn't know if there was some confusion about what the Multi Mat was. If it was a stiff inflatable mat or thicker and stiffer closed cell foam pad, the results might not have been the same. But since he slept at -27F, he knows more about how to do that I and I certainly don't want to challenge that temp.:D
Yes, right, might have been dif. In fact, I have always partially blamed freezing on my first ever night in a hammock on the fact that I placed a pad in the UC, but it was not an Exped Multimat. I played around today with putting my short TR ultralight in there, with a down vest on top of it. I'm not at all sure about that. There was no down compression, but I'm not sure I did not also have excess gap.
Anyway, whatever the explanation, my hat's off to Kurt for pushing the SS further than I thought possible without the addition of thick pads inside the HH.
MacEntyre
01-16-2009, 03:25
It all adds up.
...but if the order of the layers in the UC matters, it is for good fit, to minimize compression and gaps. Otherwise, any order would produce the same results.
Is it possible that the very bottom of the UC requires more insulation than do the sides of the UC?
Wise Old Owl
03-04-2011, 21:52
Yea I would buy one - but the "buy it now" button has been removed.
I haven't gone down to temperatures that low myself, but it looks like you're wearing an awful lot of liners inside your bag. If you had a synthetic, high-loft bag with that much insulation underneath, you could delayer a bit and put your clothing around the bag, and you might sleep a bit warmer.
Like I said, I haven't tried this myself at temperatures as low as you saw here, but the principle makes sense and works at higher freezing temperatures, and some mountaineers/alpine campers I know insist it's the way to go.
Still, at temperatures that could potentially kill you, it's probably best to do a backyard test on it before taking my word.
BillyBob58
03-05-2011, 11:28
Yea I would buy one - but the "buy it now" button has been removed.
Owl, it is still showing for me. I took it through to the page where you fill in shipping and payment info. Try again.
I haven't gone down to temperatures that low myself, but it looks like you're wearing an awful lot of liners inside your bag. If you had a synthetic, high-loft bag with that much insulation underneath, you could delayer a bit and put your clothing around the bag, and you might sleep a bit warmer.....
Elfer, back in this thread kwpapke pointed out what you said: that he would have been a lot happier using a minus 30 or 40 rated bag and ditching all the layers on top, which was a pretty big PITA for him. However, #1 he started out wanting to try and make the HHSS in severe extreme temps work by using and augmenting with just what he already had available and
2: He could not afford a new minus 40 bag.
Still a pretty impressive thread, don't y'all think? One of the coldest recorded hangs on record- until we got more info recently about THE coldest we knew about except maybe for Turk.
I guess I wasn't clear (also I meant "layers" not "liners"), but I meant to say he might have stayed warm more easily (with all the same gear) by wearing fewer clothes inside his sleeping bag, and instead tossing them on top. This makes it easier to heat up the lofted area of the bag, which keeps you warmer, as long as you don't have to enter/exit the bag a lot in the night.
But yes, impressively cold hang. I think hammocks could be pushed pretty far in terms of cold weather, the limiting factor is probably the tree line. Next winter I'm going to have to do some gear testing myself!
BillyBob58
03-05-2011, 14:59
I guess I wasn't clear (also I meant "layers" not "liners"), but I meant to say he might have stayed warm more easily (with all the same gear) by wearing fewer clothes inside his sleeping bag, and instead tossing them on top. This makes it easier to heat up the lofted area of the bag, which keeps you warmer, as long as you don't have to enter/exit the bag a lot in the night.
OK, got 'ya now! I have done this some what by not wearing my parkas and such in a normal fashion but rather just draping them over me inside a quilt, bag or especially a PeaPod. Or, putting them on backwards with arms through the sleeves and open to the back. Worked pretty good. I have not really tried just putting them over the bag though.
I haven't gone down to temperatures that low myself, but it looks like you're wearing an awful lot of liners inside your bag. If you had a synthetic, high-loft bag with that much insulation underneath, you could delayer a bit and put your clothing around the bag, and you might sleep a bit warmer.
Like I said, I haven't tried this myself at temperatures as low as you saw here, but the principle makes sense and works at higher freezing temperatures, and some mountaineers/alpine campers I know insist it's the way to go.
Still, at temperatures that could potentially kill you, it's probably best to do a backyard test on it before taking my word.
Here is the video we did of that trip........
You can see Kurt's set-up at 6:00 minutes in.
Jnoo4BPe2eo
I too would bring a lot less now-a-days. Personally I would go with the Pod System.....
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MacEntyre
03-05-2011, 17:02
I too would bring a lot less now-a-days.
That's what I was going to say... after using a "Snugpod" at -15, I believe that rig could have taken me much lower.
Personally I would go with the Pod System.....
Me too... or two Snugfits nested like TZ used. :thumbup:
I found that the supershelter pad is "sticky" too. I just laid a synthetic mummy bag UQ i had run up in between the pad and the bottom of my hammock and have been warm (not in conditions like those though). The UQ I made was a mummy bag split top from bottom and hemmed along the edge. Pretty light, and warm below freezing. BTW I use a BA Pitchpine so I have no insulation under me from my bag.
As i just got my SS system I'll just fire in a related question here..
Has anyone tried using dual HH underpads for added insulation ?
(as those things are pretty thin (or atleast thinner than i thought they would be))
Stevicide
03-24-2011, 17:00
As i just got my SS system I'll just fire in a related question here..
Has anyone tried using dual HH underpads for added insulation ?
(as those things are pretty thin (or atleast thinner than i thought they would be))
Bump - I am also curious of this... Anyone??
BillyBob58
03-24-2011, 20:42
As i just got my SS system I'll just fire in a related question here..
Has anyone tried using dual HH underpads for added insulation ?
(as those things are pretty thin (or atleast thinner than i thought they would be))
Bump - I am also curious of this... Anyone??
You could add as many pads as you think you need. The comfort would be the same but I am sure much warmer. I have no way of knowing if 2 pads would be twice as warm as one or not, and I have not tested two full length pads, but I feel sure it would be a lot warmer. But how much?
What I have done, however, is add an HH kidney and torso pad. This at least doubles (or more) thickness right where you need it most. And it is indeed much warmer. I think Ramblin Rev has been comfy at 12F by adding these small kidney/torso pads. It would probably be more weight efficient to do this and add a CCF leg/sit pad( or your pack) inside the hammock, under the legs, only when needed for cold legs.
Or you can just put whatever is left over- that won't be needed as part of your sleep system for top warmth- between the one pad and UC. Like fleece jackets, or even down vests, etc.. Believe me, MUCH warmer. And you might well have something with you to use for this anyway. I have been toasty at ~ 15F by adding a thick down vest and fleece jacket.
Don't forget the space blanket. Also, I have found that one pad to be a lot warmer than it looks, especially when used with the space blanket.
BillyBob58
03-24-2011, 20:43
As i just got my SS system I'll just fire in a related question here..
Has anyone tried using dual HH underpads for added insulation ?
(as those things are pretty thin (or atleast thinner than i thought they would be))
Bump - I am also curious of this... Anyone??
You could add as many pads as you think you need. I have no way of knowing if 2 pads would be twice as warm as one or not, and I have not tested two full length pads, but I feel sure it would be a lot warmer. But how much?
What I have done is add an HH kidney and torso pad. This at least doubles (or more) thickness right where you need it most. And it is indeed much warmer.
Or you can just put whatever is left over- that won't be needed as part of your sleep system top warmth- between the one pad and UC. Like fleece jackets, or even down vests, etc.. MUCH warmer.
Don't forget the space blanket. Also, I have found that one pad to be a lot warmer than it looks, especially when used with the space blanket.