SS Driving Me Insane

[JaxHiker]

Ok, I have to be doing something seriously wrong here. I got my SS this past weekend and can't for the life of me figure this thing out. Hell, I develop software for a living and this is boggling my mind. It seems like I can't get anything to fit/lay right/flat. Ok, maybe I'm assuming it should lay flat but I don't see why it wouldn't. Instead, I end up with a mountain in the middle. This is what it looks like from outside. Notice how the opening to the SS is super high and at an angle.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/hiking/gear/shelter/IMG_0965.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/hiking/gear/shelter/IMG_0972.jpg

This is the mountain I was talking about.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/hiking/gear/shelter/IMG_0963.jpg

This is what it looked like when I lifted the hammock.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/hiking/gear/shelter/IMG_0969.jpg

And finally, how bunched up it is when I'm inside.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/hiking/gear/shelter/IMG_0968.jpg

I assumed that the loops on the pad would match perfectly with the tie-outs on the hammock and the holes in the UC. Instead it sits cockeyed with a few inches' gap. Not sure if this is contributing to my troubles or not.

The instructions really don't seem that hard and I'm befuddled as to why this is causing me such grief but I've about had it. :mad:

[Mrprez]

I think you have the pad in there upside down. Did you try it the other way? The side ties should line up with the tieouts on the hammock and the UC. It should not be bunched up like that.

[MacEntyre]

I develop software for a living
That's the problem... this is hardware. :rolleyes:

Seriously, the pad has a seam that goes from one hammock tie out to the other. If the loops on the pad don't line up with the tie-outs on the hammock, it is upside down.

The pad should lie along the asymmetrical diagonal, head to the left and foot to the right, as you lie on your back. The entrance at the foot will be at the left edge of the pad. You have to arrange the hammock and the supershelter so that it all lays correctly.

Also, don't pull the ends tight until the tie outs are fastened in place.

Hope this helps!

- MacEntyre

[kwpapke]

Crap, can't change the title once submitted... What I meant to say is more horizontal, less vertical!

My guess from looking at your pics is your side tieouts need to be attached to something to get more horizontal pull. From the pic, they look almost vertical. The more straight out they go, the better.

I use my trekking poles for this:http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/1/2/5/0/20080722_17_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=4411&c=searchresults&searchid=12718)

You also should double or triple-up the elastics as shown in the photo.

--Kurt

[JaxHiker]

I think I tried the pad with the seam black side up but I'll try it again.

MacEntyre (aka funny man), maybe that's part of the problem. I'm trying to put it in straight, not on the asym line. btw, this is why I don't do hardware. :D

Kurt, you're right, I have the side tie-outs almost vertical. This is because I'm trying to pitch my tarp steep so it'll block the wind. I'll try them more horizontal, though, and see if it clears it up.

Thanks. I'll let you know what happens after dinner.

[BillyBob58]

Both the under cover left opening and under pad left tie out loop should line up, within an inch or two, with the HH left side tie out elastics. If this is done, the right side should automatically also be lined up without having to do anything.

There is a top opening on the undercover which runs the full length of the hammock, in a circle around both sides. I believe it is hemmed in black, but I'd have to dig it out and look, so someone correct me if I am wrong. Just make sure this black hem is running along the top side of the hammock on both ends- it should go over the net on both ends. Then on the foot end is a large opening that lines up perfectly with the bottom opening of the hammock, and about the same size as the hammock opening.

The opening for the suspension rope and pad end elastics on one end ( foot I think) is very small and hard to see. I often have to run a finger through it and "hook" the suspension rope and pull it through. If you don't get the suspension rope and pad elastic cords through these holes correctly on both ends, things will be totally screwed up.

It looked to me like your pad might have been upside down. The pad has a bathtub shape, just make sure it is in there with the narrow end at the foot and oriented so that it will be curving around your back, as though you are laying in a bathtub. If you have a pad loop on one side lined up with the hammock elastic tie outs, and the other side is out of alignment by more than a few inches at most, then you probably have it in either upside down of foot(narrow) end wrongly at the head end.

It is easy to get the thing turned inside out if you are not careful when taking it on and off. If things are totally messed up, just take it off, lay it on your living room floor where you can be comfy, and try to picture how it should go. Concentrate on making sure that black hem is on top, and running along the edge of the net on both sides and then over the top of the net at the foot and head AFTER you have put the hammock ropes through the holes.

It drove me crazy also, when I first tried to set it up in the field as the sun set and temps dropped. I had done it once at home, not certain I had it right, and didn't know to just leave it on there. But hang in there. After you have put it on a few times for practice, you will see there is absolutely nothing to it. It is nothing more than a hammock for your hammock, a bathtub shaped piece of cloth and foam that your hammock lies down into with a custom fit. But once you have done it enough to feel confident, then just leave the sucker on there and don't take it off untill summer time, and maybe not then.

You will get it soon enough. If it's cold and windy outside, tie it up to doors and bedposts or whatever in the house and attach in there. Just don't forget and lay down in it, or you will break something! :scared: ;)

[MacEntyre]

then just leave the sucker on there and don't take it off untill summer time, and maybe not then.
Good point! I have never used my Hennessy without the SuperShelter and it's pad.

I read someone's post recently that said it has to be above 75 degrees for them to sleep without insulation underneath.

JaxHiker, after you get used to how the asym lie works, you'll find that when you rig the tarp steep and close to block the wind, you can hang without tying the hammock out. That allows the sides to rise up around you and help block the wind.

Hope your debugger works better now!

- MacEntyre

[JaxHiker]

It looked to me like your pad might have been upside down. The pad has a bathtub shape, just make sure it is in there with the narrow end at the foot and oriented so that it will be curving around your back, as though you are laying in a bathtub. If you have a pad loop on one side lined up with the hammock elastic tie outs, and the other side is out of alignment by more than a few inches at most, then you probably have it in either upside down of foot(narrow) end wrongly at the head end.

Ok, this is probably a big problem. I was thinking the narrow end would be at the head since the hammock narrows. I'll turn it around and see how it goes.



It is easy to get the thing turned inside out if you are not careful when taking it on and off. If things are totally messed up, just take it off, lay it on your living room floor where you can be comfy, and try to picture how it should go. Concentrate on making sure that black hem is on top, and running along the edge of the net on both sides and then over the top of the net at the foot and head AFTER you have put the hammock ropes through the holes.

This also irked me this afternoon. I have one end that looks right (where the tree lines go through) but the other side is all jabberwocky. I tried and tried and couldn't make it look right. I'll tackle that another day.



You will get it soon enough. If it's cold and windy outside, tie it up to doors and bedposts or whatever in the house and attach in there. Just don't forget and lay down in it, or you will break something! :scared: ;)
It's cold and windy tonight, that's why I'm sleeping outside. ;)



JaxHiker, after you get used to how the asym lie works, you'll find that when you rig the tarp steep and close to block the wind, you can hang without tying the hammock out. That allows the sides to rise up around you and help block the wind.

Hope your debugger works better now!
- MacEntyre
Hmm, I've been using the hammock for a while but I've never had a need to pitch steep. I might try it w/o the side tie-outs too.

As for the debugger, I think I need to set a couple more breakpoints. :laugh:

How well does the pad hold up if you keep everything together? I also wondered if it'd make things too big for the snakeskins or if it'd be a hassle to stuff everything back in the sack.

[MacEntyre]

How well does the pad hold up if you keep everything together? ...too big for the snakeskins or if it'd be a hassle to stuff everything back in the sack.
I put my snakeskins on my tarp, which is larger than the Hennessy stock fly. I hang the tarp seperate from the hammock.

I leave my hammock, undercover and pad all rigged together and stow it in a stuff sack. Do a search on the forum and read about BlackBishop's way of rigging a stuff sack on the support line at one end.

Treat the pad gently... you can wrap it in the hammock and stuff it, but it is fragile!

[BillyBob58]

Ok, this is probably a big problem. I was thinking the narrow end would be at the head since the hammock narrows. I'll turn it around and see how it goes.


Oh yeah, correcting that should make a dif!



How well does the pad hold up if you keep everything together? I also wondered if it'd make things too big for the snakeskins or if it'd be a hassle to stuff everything back in the sack.

The pad is really fragile. So you will either need to be really careful, or just leave it all together. Then with a little caution, it should hold together pretty good. If you poke a hole in it it, you can patch it with some seam sealer, and function will not really be affected.

I think I forgot to say: use the $2 WM space blanket ( or heat sheet- quieter, easier to work with, more durable) like Tom H. says. Otherwise, I predict you will be cold or wet(condensation in the pad) or both. And if you are going much below 30, you may want to put something light and fluffy ( like a down vest) down in the undercover under your lower back.

Have fun!
Bill

[JaxHiker]

Hadn't thought about snakeskins for the tarp but probably not a bad idea. Right now I just use them for the hammock itself.

Ok, so it's dark and cold out but I got the pad turned around. The narrow end is now at the feet. I still have it with the black seam on the bottom, though. Otherwise the loops didn't match the holes. It still doesn't seem quite right but I think it's more the UC than the pad at this point.

The mountain is coming from the UC sucking up. I loosened the loops that hold the UC to the tree lines but it's still puckering up. Is it not supposed to lay flat to follow the contour of the hammock bottom? I'll try to take better pictures tomorrow afternoon.

Tnx for the help guys. I'll check out BBs packing method, too.

ETA: I do use the space blanket.

[hikingjer]

The "Super Shelter" isn't so super. OK at best. It should be called the OK Shelter. Atleast it's priced lower than underquilts.

[GrizzlyAdams]

...
Ok, so it's dark and cold out but I got the pad turned around. The narrow end is now at the feet. I still have it with the black seam on the bottom, though. Otherwise the loops didn't match the holes. It still doesn't seem quite right but I think it's more the UC than the pad at this point.
...


Could it be inside out? I've never seen one of these things so I don't know what this black seam is. But turning what you have as the outside in would reverse the asymmetry on the sides, and leave you with the narrow end at the feet.

Grizz

[Mrprez]

It is most likely inside out. It is very easy to do and will cause untold grief trying to get the side tieouts to line up.

[JaxHiker]

It probably is. I fiddled with it for a while on the ground and gave up. I'll see how it works tonight and then take it down and re-check everything tomorrow. I can easily see how the thing can get inside out. If you don't hear back from me, mission failed and I'm a popsicle. :D

[BillyBob58]

Ok, so it's dark and cold out but I got the pad turned around. The narrow end is now at the feet. I still have it with the black seam on the bottom, though. Otherwise the loops didn't match the holes. It still doesn't seem quite right but I think it's more the UC than the pad at this point.

The mountain is coming from the UC sucking up. I loosened the loops that hold the UC to the tree lines but it's still puckering up. Is it not supposed to lay flat to follow the contour of the hammock bottom? I'll try to take better pictures tomorrow afternoon.

Tnx for the help guys. I'll check out BBs packing method, too.

ETA: I do use the space blanket.

OK, just to be clear, when I say "black seam", I'm talking about the seam on the under cover, not a seam on the under pad. The Sil-Nylon undercover ( mine anyway- over 2 years old) has a seam around the bottom opening, the one you go in and out of, at the bottom entry. This seam is the same color as the rest of the undercover(UC). The black seam goes up higher, and when attached properly will be at about the same level ( roughly) as where your net joins to the hammock body. This black seam forms the top hole that the netting and ridgelie poke out of at the top. And this black seam will run all the way around the hammock at about the same place as the net joins to the hammock body. But then the seam will cross over the net/ridgeline on each end, where the suspension rope and UC elastic cords go through the holes in the UC and then to the tree.

And there is the possibility ( like Griz et all said) that you have it turned inside out. If that was the case, the only way the side holes would line up would be if the black seam was on the bottom, I think?

It also sounds like you may have the under pad and/or undercover lines drawn too tight, and you might need to loosen the prussick hooks ( if yours attach that way- I hear some newer ones use glove hooks). Really, you are supposed to attach the tarp first, letting correct tarp adjustment determine where the prussick hooks are at. Then, you hook the SS to the prussicks. On mine, the prussick hooks are about a hands length from the end of the hammock.

When you have the tension correct, the UC should just barely touch the the underpad, and the underpad should just barely touch the hammock body. Then when you lie in it, it will all snug up against your back. But it is really not critical, anywhere in the ball park will do, as long as it is not loose enough to leave a gap once you are in. No gaps! Gaps=cold!

The UC tension becomes more important once you start adding clothing. If too tight, the undercover will compress the loft of, say, a down vest, greatly reducing warmth. Again, too loose will cause a gap=cold.

If I lived closer to you, I would just run over there tomorrow and show you. I bet I could have it going in 5 minutes max, unless they have sent you a defective one, which is possible. As soon as you saw it go on and how simple that was, you would think "well, how simple is that!". But it can be baffling when you are first looking at it. Also, if I had it up I would send you some step by step pics. But I am sleeping out tonight in a JRB BMBH and Mt.Washington underquilt.

Good luck, hope you don't freeze!

[JaxHiker]

Ok, there is a black seam that I have running around the top. Perhaps I have the tension on the UC too tight and that's causing the problem. I sort of skipped the tarp part since I use the MacCat. Maybe I should use the stock tarp to set the prusik location and then swap it out.

I think you may have knocked some sense into me BB. Maybe I have everything too tight trying to force it to snuggle up to the bottom of the hammock and that's wreaking havoc on me instead.

Lived closer? It's only a 10 hour drive. ;) I really appreciate everyone's help. I'm sure I'll get it when I least expect it and everything will click and I'll no recourse but to smack my forehead at how dense I was.

Oh, and if you haven't figured it out I survived. The only problems I really had are I had to pee twice (which I never do during the night) and my feet were cold when I got up. Guess I'll have to read the peeing thread now and make sure I wear my wool socks.

[MacEntyre]

Congrats on a successful night!

You kinda proved the point that it matters less what the hammock looks like unloaded than how it all comes together loaded. When you get inside, things sorta fall into place if you have the pieces right side up, close to the right position, and loose enough to end up where they belong.

[BillyBob58]

Ok, there is a black seam that I have running around the top. Perhaps I have the tension on the UC too tight and that's causing the problem. I sort of skipped the tarp part since I use the MacCat. Maybe I should use the stock tarp to set the prusik location and then swap it out.

I think you may have knocked some sense into me BB. Maybe I have everything too tight trying to force it to snuggle up to the bottom of the hammock and that's wreaking havoc on me instead.

Lived closer? It's only a 10 hour drive. ;) I really appreciate everyone's help. I'm sure I'll get it when I least expect it and everything will click and I'll no recourse but to smack my forehead at how dense I was.

Oh, and if you haven't figured it out I survived. The only problems I really had are I had to pee twice (which I never do during the night) and my feet were cold when I got up. Guess I'll have to read the peeing thread now and make sure I wear my wool socks.

If you had to pee an unusual amount, you might have been a little chilled, especially around the kidney/lower back area. That's one reason HH makes the kidney/torso pad option. But with every system pushed near it's limit, CBS ( cold butt syndrom) seems to be very common. Glad you made it out alive. So did I, after a 16*F night- but I had a good sleep, which has never happened before in the back yard. I usually can't sleep back there!

[JaxHiker]

You know what I meant to do and forgot is to add my pack towel. It's one of those light quick-dry microfiber towels. I'll throw that in tonight and see if it helps with the "urge".

I didn't quite get down to your temp. It's really hard to say since my thermometer doesn't seem to go below 35 but the radio said it was 28 as I was driving in 45 min after I left the hammock. I just wish I knew what the real range was. I'm honestly considering buying a Kestrel weather device so I can keep tabs on that.

[JaxHiker]

Oooooh yeah, baby! Nothing like a 12-hr hard freeze to make you feel alive! I think it got down to 22.

I really didn't know it was cold except for a light breeze on my face every once in a while. I slept like a baby...until the !&!@#*!@#$&*&@#$ sprinklers went off!!!!! I let them run last night so everything would freeze. Guess I forgot to turn them off and they're scheduled to kick off Thur morning. Of course my hammock is setup right next to one of the heads. These aren't dainty little heads. Oh no. These are high-volume rotating heads. I woke up to a damned firehose on the tarp.

Thankfully the tarp held up remarkably well. I don't know why but they ran for over 30 min. I set the time last night to just 10 min and I turned off the zone I was in. I'm not sure wth happened. The tarp was sagging bad from the weight of the ice on it. I was going back to sleep when they cut off but by then the tarp had started to drip into the hammock. I gave up and headed inside. Hopefully we'll warm up enough today and things will dry out.

I can say that I now feel 100% confident in my ability to stay out in at least 20° weather...even if it rains. :-) I put the wool socks on and used my liner socks too and didn't have cold feet. If I could just find my face mask (and if I can sleep in it) I won't have a single problem. I might try to find a balaclava instead but it has to wick so it doesn't get soaked with sweat.

[BillyBob58]

Oooooh yeah, baby! Nothing like a 12-hr hard freeze to make you feel alive! I think it got down to 22. ....I really didn't know it was cold except for a light breeze on my face every once in a while. I slept like a baby...until the !&!@#*!@#$&*&@#$ sprinklers went off!!!!! ....... I woke up to a damned firehose on the tarp. ......Thankfully the tarp held up remarkably well. ...The tarp was sagging bad from the weight of the ice on it. .......I can say that I now feel 100% confident in my ability to stay out in at least 20° weather...even if it rains. :-) ....

Holy Cow! Are you telling me that, even after all of the confusion about set up, that you did just fine with the basic SS on your first tries in temps in the 20s, and you didn't even know it was cold? And even one night under a sprinkler caused deluge? What are you, Canadian? Well, I don't see how you could have done any better than that. Way to go. Did you put your pack towel in on the 22* night, and/or anything else?

Hikingjer, I have to slightly disagree with your statement that the SS is really just an OK shelter at best. Even though I realize there may be more folks who see it the way you do than there are folks who see it the way I do. But I think it is at least a "pretty darn good shelter", if not even better. And I have experience with the very best hammock insulation there is. Yet, I still like my SS pretty well, and feel that it has it's charms. And there are a few special circumstances where I might choose it above anything else.

Consider: it is way cheaper than many options, for the large number of folks for whom cost is a major consideration for whatever reason. One reason it is cheaper is an apples to apples type comparison: part of the design INCLUDES a bottom shell which goes a long way towards blocking wind/rain/snow/fog. No extra money or weight involved adding socks to give this extra protection. In fact, this automatic wind block is one of my favorite things about it, decreasing worries about a perfect tarp pitch or orientation, or even allowing the use of a smaller, lighter ( i.e. stock) tarp and it is part of the basic system. By adding the overcover( for $35 and another few oz), which people seem to love, you get a full sock which increases inner temps, adds more wind/fog/light spray/snow block.

All of this adds 13 oz for the ULBP( per HH specs anyway), plus SB ( 2-3 oz?). Plus maybe a few oz for the overcover?

Now, it is definitely just plain easier for me to use thick down underneath when it is going to be really cold. I don't have to worry about exactly what I can add to the UC and how well it will work, will I cause a gap or will the UC crush the insulation, etc. etc. None the less, KWPAPKE and several others have proven that they can take this system way below zero, so it can be done. And after all, it is not easy to take even expensive down quilts way below zero without adding something, like pads or another expensive down quilt.

But personally, I will choose the down products if severe cold is forecast. It is just easier for me. But I can actually think of some trips when I would choose the SS over some others. A long trip with heavy rain likely with temps no colder than the high 30s, or especially no lower than the 40s? I might choose the SS over down, unless I was willing to carry the larger tarp. Why not, I know I am going to be warm enough, and won't be nearly as worried about keeping my down dry. At least I won't need a larger tarp to keep the rain and wind off of my down.

Actually, my main reasons NOT to use the SS would be because:
1: severe cold, and counting on all or most of my extra clothing for my top insulation, leaving little to add below, and not wanting to sleep on my pad if possible
2: actually #1 reason- desire to use another hammock. A top loader ( no zip option yet), or a hammock I find more comfortable ( like Claytor No Net) or especially my oh so comfortable JRB BMBH, with which the SS is an impossibility. But on which the very warm JRB MWUQ fits like it was designed exactly for it! :rolleyes:

But I'm not trying to convince anyone to choose the SS over either pads or down UQS or PeaPods. For one thing, a few folks have used them and had no luck and/or condensation problems, no matter how much advice they follow. I've never had those problems, but some folks clearly have! So, Caveat Emptor! I have not heard of any one having trouble with a MWUQ or Snugfit or a PeaPod, so far. They just plain work!

Forgive the long winded rant: it all comes down to: I think it has it's pros and is at least a pretty darned good shelter! ;) Just my personal opinion, with which many will disagree, no doubt!

[Cannibal]

I really didn't know it was cold except for a light breeze on my face every once in a while. I slept like a baby...until the !&!@#*!@#$&*&@#$ sprinklers went off!!!!! I let them run last night so everything would freeze. Guess I forgot to turn them off and they're scheduled to kick off Thur morning. Of course my hammock is setup right next to one of the heads. These aren't dainty little heads. Oh no. These are high-volume rotating heads. I woke up to a damned firehose on the tarp.

:lol: I needed a good laugh this morning, thanks! Perfect visual in my head right now.

[BillyBob58]

:lol: I needed a good laugh this morning, thanks! Perfect visual in my head right now.

Really! :lol: But, if that is not a testimony to the SS- even with a first time user who the SS is driving insane- I don't know what is! :rolleyes:

[MacEntyre]

Congratulations again, JaxHiker! You really tamed the beast! (...and provided a good laugh!)

I agree, BillyBob, the SS sets a high standard. Maybe that's why the quilts are so good.

[JaxHiker]

Well, I'm glad I could provide you some entertainment. My work here is done. Never let it be said I won't go the extra mile to test out hanging products. :D

I'm quite surprised with the success I had. To be honest I still don't think I have the SS installed right but I'm tired of tearing it down, getting frustrated, and putting it back up thinking I have it figured out. I'll take it down this weekend, though, and try to finally wrap my head around it. For now, though, it does seem to be working well.

I did place the micro fiber towel under the kidney area. I have to confess that I cheated, though. I figured my WS2 isn't that much more to carry so I used that as well. Here's how it looked:

micro fiber towel
space blanket
SS pad
SS UC
WS2

I'll also add that I didn't have to pee till the sprinklers went off. Maybe it was an evil attempt from the God of RainBird to make me have to go knowing I'd get soaked to the bone trying to escape the hammock. Had I not been able to will the urge away until it was safe my wife probably would've found my frozen, statuesque body mid-stride with one foot in the hammock and pee-sicles stuck to my leg.

After several nights outside I think I'm ready for the trail next month. The mountain my **** well kill me but the cold won't! :cool:

[MacEntyre]

To be honest I still don't think I have the SS installed right...
I was fiddling with mine this afternoon, and found that unloaded, it looks terrible. The cause is the elastic in the bottom entry of the under cover. No matter how loose I make the UC on the suspension lines, when unloaded it is tighter than the hammock. The hammock hangs in folds over the UC. Of course, when I get inside, all is well.

Good luck!

[JaxHiker]

Maybe that's the issue. Maybe I'm expecting it to be one way when reality says something else. Perhaps I should just stop fiddling and start hanging.

[BillyBob58]

..........................
I'll also add that I didn't have to pee till the sprinklers went off.
Well, you must have been at least adequately warm.




Maybe it was an evil attempt from the God of RainBird to make me have to go knowing I'd get soaked to the bone trying to escape the hammock. Had I not been able to will the urge away until it was safe my wife probably would've found my frozen, statuesque body mid-stride with one foot in the hammock and pee-sicles stuck to my leg.............:

Jax, you're going to fit right in here! :lol:

[JaxHiker]

Just wanted to provide an update.

Hiked from Woody Gap to Hogpen Gap over the weekend. I used the SS both nights and the temps were in the high 20s/low 30s. It worked very well and I have no complaints. I hate trying to fit the pad back in the stuffsack but other than that the system does seem to work well for me now.

[seawolf]

Just wanted to provide an update.

Hiked from Woody Gap to Hogpen Gap over the weekend. I used the SS both nights and the temps were in the high 20s/low 30s. It worked very well and I have no complaints. I hate trying to fit the pad back in the stuffsack but other than that the system does seem to work well for me now.

I use a bigger stuff sack for pad, it is tough to use the small bag that it comes in.

[kwpapke]

I hate trying to fit the pad back in the stuffsack but other than that the system does seem to work well for me now.
Use a Sea-to-summit 8L dry bag. The OCF pad rolls up nicely and can be strapped to the back of a pack:
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/1/2/5/0/ms02_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=4977&c=6)

--Kurt

[BillyBob58]

It's funny that this thread ( titled "SS driving me nuts") showed up, when I clicked "new posts", right under another one titled "how well does SS work"! :lol:

I sure wouldn't be spending time and energy trying to get that pad back in it's sack, though it can be done. Two better approaches listed above. Or, using extreme mini-biners( you wouldn't believe the typo I just corrected here with the word biners! :boggle: ) on the prussicks ( instead of the stock hooks) to hold all the lines in place when I pack up, I just stuff the entire contraption into one large sack, sometimes even with my top quilt in there. You need a pretty large sack for it to work smooth and fast, but once you get it all in there it will compress down pretty well. If water proofing is needed, I just double bag with a garbage bag or something similar.

Then when it is time to make camp, one rope to the first tree, other rope to the 2nd tree, and I am ready for bed in one fell swoop. It is really hard to beat. But most of my trips I have just put the pad in a separate dry bag, and zipped the UC and hammock up into snake skins. That works fine also, but set up time is not quite as fast.

[SuperTramp]

wow!! thx sooo much for this info too! i received the s/s today and have been trying to figure it out in the basement and just about lost it and went postal -now i have to go apologize to my family for totally freaking out just thinking about it over supper-i was trying to put the pad in symmetrical too! the instructions suck,even the videos too don't give the right view to see.i'm trying to get in the bottom through the pad and have undid and done up each side in every configuration imaginable-i thought i remembered this thread vaguely and here is the answers to all my problems-thx hammockers

[BillyBob58]

wow!! thx sooo much for this info too! i received the s/s today and have been trying to figure it out in the basement and just about lost it and went postal -now i have to go apologize to my family for totally freaking out just thinking about it over supper-i was trying to put the pad in symmetrical too! the instructions suck,even the videos too don't give the right view to see.i'm trying to get in the bottom through the pad and have undid and done up each side in every configuration imaginable-i thought i remembered this thread vaguely and here is the answers to all my problems-thx hammockers

So, did it finally come together for you, and you figured it out? Boy, if I was just a video maker, this set up should have been made into a video sticky long ago. It really is dirt simple once you see how it goes, but trying to figure out how it goes the first time or two can just be a bear sometimes. Some obvious color coding would really help. And some labeling like head-foot-right-left-up-down. I remember all those layers just seemed to blend together, especially out in the field with the sun setting. And if the SS wasn't bad enough, I remember I was also not at all sure about how the asym tarp went. Oh, good times, warm memories!

[MacEntyre]

The OCF pad is the confusing component of the SuperShelter. There are six things that make it clear that there is only one correct way to insert the pad. When these things become familiar enough to recognize them at a glance, installing the pad is a breeze.

First, the head of the OCF pad is wider than the foot.

Second, the waffled side of the OCF pad goes up, smooth side goes down.

Third, when the OCF pad is right side up, a glance at the tie-outs, to see that they line up with the tie-outs on the hammock, will confirm that the foot of the pad is at the foot of the hammock.

Fourth, the narrow foot of the OCF pad should be at the end of the hammock where the entrance is located.

Fifth, the diagonal seam in the OCF pad runs from one tie-out to the other, further confirming that it is right side up and the foot end is at the entry.

Sixth, stepping back you can plainly see that the OCF pad lies along the diagonal that the occupant is supposed to occupy. This is easiest to see if the asym tie-outs are tied out. Pad positioned on the diagonal, the hammock entrance does not interfere with the OCF pad.

The rest is about finding the correct suspension tension for the pad and the undercover. A best guess is a somewhat relaxed tension.

Supertramp, have you gained that kind of familiarity? If not, take BillyBob's advice and just leave the pad in the hammock!

[Ramblinrev]

I am expecting my SS either at the end of this week or early next. I'll try to get a vid made for the installation. That is if I don't make an idiot out of myself while doing it.

[BillyBob58]

I am expecting my SS either at the end of this week or early next. I'll try to get a vid made for the installation. That is if I don't make an idiot out of myself while doing it.

That will be great, a video to hopefully save much misery catching on to something that is really quite simple, and a "DUH" or "DOH!" moment once you see it correctly put together.

That is a good list for "how to know it's correct" supplied by MacEntyre. By knowing even just a couple of them it is hard to go wrong. But you can get that UC inside out and backwards if you are not careful. The black hem/edge goes at the top and completely encircles the hammock at about the net/hammock intersection, and crosses OVER the RL on both ends.

[SuperTramp]

ok so i think i got it,with the pad in assymmetrical it seems to be good although the undercover still looks alittle wonky with the pad off to one side but it all evens out when laying in it.i had it finally altogether and then when i went to put on the overcover i realized i had to redo the whole silly thing to put the overcover in the undercover.grrrr.so this is officially my winter hammock!!i'm not taking that apart and redoing it everytime i use it-no thx-the beauty is everytime i order from Hennesey they give me another hammock.with the explorer deluxe i got the scout and with the supershelter they threw in the expedition so i now have 3 hammocks and have yet to sleep outdoors with one.this week-end is the maiden voyage and i can't wait! i'm going camping along Lake Huron (Canadian side) and the temps are going to be just right for testing it all out -12 celsius-so thx again and i will tell you how it worked

[MacEntyre]

...and crosses OVER the RL on both ends.
Oops! I never put the pad or UC suspension over the ridgeline. :eek:

Was I supposed to do that, too? :confused:

[Mrprez]

Oops! I never put the pad or UC suspension over the ridgeline. :eek:

Was I supposed to do that, too? :confused:

Me either. Not sure how or why you'd do that.

[Ramblinrev]

if I understand correctly that is referring to making sure the undercover is pulled properly snug onto the hammock once the suspension lines are run through the tubes at each end. I haven't seen this beastie yet so I could be mistaken, but that's what I am assuming.

[Mrprez]

if I understand correctly that is referring to making sure the undercover is pulled properly snug onto the hammock once the suspension lines are run through the tubes at each end. I haven't seen this beastie yet so I could be mistaken, but that's what I am assuming.

Maybe so. You do run the RL through the somewhat elusive holes in each end of the UC.

500th post...:D

[kwpapke]

There are six things that make it clear that there is only one correct way to insert the pad.
Hey, Mac. That is a great checklist! If someone makes a SS video, it would be great to review those items.

--Kurt

[Ramblinrev]

kwpapke... a video is in my plans when the beastie finally arrives at my door......

[MacEntyre]

...once the suspension lines are run through the tubes at each end.
I've been real tempted to slice those tubes and put ties on them so I can attach or detach the UC and OCF pad without taking down the hammock.


Hey, Mac. That is a great checklist!
Why, thank you very much! :)

[Mrprez]

I wonder if a narrow strip of velcro would work for that? But, how often do you take it off?

[MacEntyre]

Velcro would work, until it does not work. Since a small strain is possible, I would prefer to tie it. Perhaps I should use velcro until it doesn't work. ;)

I may take it off more often, now that I have a KAQ and some experimental quilts. :cool:

"off more often"... I don't think I've ever written that before! :laugh: Kinda like when people say, "Pull off on the shoulder."

[JaxHiker]

How do you have the tie-outs tied out when you put the pad in if the tie-outs are supposed to go through the loops on the pad?

Nice list btw.

[kwpapke]

How do you have the tie-outs tied out when you put the pad in if the tie-outs are supposed to go through the loops on the pad?
You don't. The order I do it is:

Tie out tarp to trekking poles for room to move around
Put OCF pad in UC
Hitch OCF RL elastics to prussics
Pass side elastic thru loop, out hole in UC and tie to stake, trekking pole, etc.
Repeat w/ other side

--Kurt

[BillyBob58]

Oops! I never put the pad or UC suspension over the ridgeline. :eek:

Was I supposed to do that, too? :confused:

No, the pad/UC SUSPENSION elastics don't go over the RL, they of course go through the holes in the UC ends and out to the prussick hooks. It is the UC TOP edge that crosses over the RL.

It is automatic if you have the UC oriented correctly and not turned inside out. Think about it: if you run the hammock suspension ropes through the holes in the end of the UC, then the top edge ( I believe that is the black hem on mine) of the UC will automatically have to be either over the suspension spectra ropes( but only if you pull the UC REAL tight with the prussick hooks) or over the RL, on both ends. And of course, at the same time, this hem will be running alongside the hammock at about the hammock/net intersection along the full length on both sides. So the black UC hem/edge will run along the hammock length along the side by the net and then, down at the ends, go over the suspension ropes OR the RL. This cross over at the RL is what holds the UC up in the air, allowing it to be lightly snugged up against the pad or hammock bottom. Without this support, it would probably sag down pretty low with a large gap, or you would have to pull really tight to overcome this sag.

It is not a separate step, it's just something to look at, a way to make sure your set up is right. I'm sure you already have it this way. ( Hard to put in words!)

[Ramblinrev]

You don't. The order I do it is:

Tie out tarp to trekking poles for room to move around
Put OCF pad in UC
Hitch OCF RL elastics to prussics
Pass side elastic thru loop, out hole in UC and tie to stake, trekking pole, etc.
Repeat w/ other side

--Kurt

I don't have mine yet so maybe it will be clear when I get it. The OCF has loops to the suspension prussics? I was not aware of that.

[Mrprez]

I don't have mine yet so maybe it will be clear when I get it. The OCF has loops to the suspension prussics? I was not aware of that.

Yep, it has side loops and end loops to keep it in place.

[BillyBob58]

Actually, here is a good pic ( worth a thousand words) that Neo took at a hangout. I think this shows what I was trying to say about the black hem going over the RL:


http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/1/1/HPIM0375_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=1910&c=)


Click on this pic and the "black" hem/edge is plainly seen first running along the edge of the hammock at the net/hammock intersection on the side nearest the camera, and then crossing over the net and RL and down to the other side. This is about as close to color coding ( which would be so useful for newbies) as the HHSS comes. IOW, that black hem and that opening it forms are "UP" and the "topside" and in contact with the net and RL. Just something to help get started, something to look for and easy to see when first setting up. One more thing to help you keep oriented when new to the SS, when all of those layers just seem to blend together.

The set up is really quite simple and logical, but without color coding it can be really confusing at first for one new to both hammocks and the SS. But once you have set it up correctly once or twice, you wonder what the confusion was all about. But when you finally get it right the first time, there is really not much need to tear it back down anyway, at least not until it is really warm again.

This entire set up ( hammock, SS, main OCF pad + kidney/torso pad, SB and summer weight synthetic bag were all in one large stuff sack together, with the foot end suspension rope coming out of the one stuff sack opening. It was not a Bishop sack, which would be even better. This rope was attached to one tree, then the entire works came out of the sack as I walked to the other tree and attached. At which point, except for tarp, I was ready for bed! ;) Later, in made for a nice cozy 43*F sleep on a pretty fall TN night at my one and only HF hangout so far!

BTW, that is my netless HH Safari in the background.

[Ramblinrev]

arg... my SS is two hours away and I have to wait until Monday.... grrrrr...

[JaxHiker]

You don't. The order I do it is:

Tie out tarp to trekking poles for room to move around
Put OCF pad in UC
Hitch OCF RL elastics to prussics
Pass side elastic thru loop, out hole in UC and tie to stake, trekking pole, etc.
Repeat w/ other side

--Kurt
Well, Mac said this which is why I asked.



Sixth, stepping back you can plainly see that the OCF pad lies along the diagonal that the occupant is supposed to occupy. This is easiest to see if the asym tie-outs are tied out. Pad positioned on the diagonal, the hammock entrance does not interfere with the OCF pad.


I reverse these two steps.

Hitch OCF RL elastics to prussics

Pass side elastic thru loop, out hole in UC and tie to stake, trekking pole, etc.

I pass through the loops, out the UC, and to the stakes and then I run the OCF to the prusiks. Maybe I'll try it your way.

[MacEntyre]

Sorry to have caused confusion... of course, the tie-outs cannot be tied out before they are run through the OCF pad loops.

[Ramblinrev]

Mine arrived just minutes ago... Time for own insanity to continue.

[BillyBob58]

Mine arrived just minutes ago... Time for own insanity to continue.

WhooHoo! Time for a little mental gymnastics! The hole on the UC end(footend I think) is really small. Your hammock suspension rope and the pad elastic loop( foot end) will have to pass though this hole. Sometimes I have to run my finger through that hole first, just to help find it by feel. I don't know why it is so small, the opposite end hole is not that small.

[MacEntyre]

I don't know why it is so small, the opposite end hole is not that small.
It is small because it is constructed differently. The BEEP elastic passes through the hole along with the edges that it is sewn into. It is a hole designed by MC Escher! :scared:

[Ramblinrev]

actually it seems to be going together quite nicely.... maybe I'm doing something wrong. Or maybe I just picked up enuf from reading the threads for it to make sense. Video is in the works.

[BillyBob58]

actually it seems to be going together quite nicely.... maybe I'm doing something wrong. Or maybe I just picked up enuf from reading the threads for it to make sense. Video is in the works.

Seems likely! Glad to know there is not any agony yet!

[Ramblinrev]

there is probably going to be a gap between now and when I get the vid produced. I have very important plans for later in the week that I need to prepare for. So I will spending my time doing tasks related to that event for the next couple of days.

I seem to have gotten it together on the first try. It seems very nice. I did wrestle some with putting the snakeskins on over it and I have tried to put the heat sheet in yet. I also can't see how you can get the foam into the snakeskins. I have the #4 which are the largest and there is about enough room for the undercover and top cover. I'll have to check back in the threads and see what is said. But I expect to ahve the video done early next week.

[BillyBob58]

there is probably going to be a gap between now and when I get the vid produced. I have very important plans for later in the week that I need to prepare for. So I will spending my time doing tasks related to that event for the next couple of days.

I seem to have gotten it together on the first try. It seems very nice. I did wrestle some with putting the snakeskins on over it and I have tried to put the heat sheet in yet. I also can't see how you can get the foam into the snakeskins. I have the #4 which are the largest and there is about enough room for the undercover and top cover. I'll have to check back in the threads and see what is said. But I expect to ahve the video done early next week.

I am glad that you plan to make a video, that has been long needed. Glad to hear you have had little trouble putting it together. It really is pretty simple.

I don't think you are going to be able to use the skins over the pad, or if you can it is going to be time consuming and even tough on the fragile pad. I suggest either removing the pad and packing it separately each time, or stuffing the entire magilla into a large stuff sack. When I do that, I use some tiny biners instead of the prussick hooks, so that all of the elastics stay in place. That makes for a very fast setup and take down.

[MacEntyre]

I also can't see how you can get the foam into the snakeskins.
You don't.

I have the #4 which are the largest and there is about enough room for the undercover and top cover.
I put my hammock, with SS UC and OCF pad, in a stuff sack that is on the suspension. The snake skins are on my tarp.

You could keep the skins on the hammock, and just remove the OCF pad. It will get easier to remove and replace the pad. It needs to be in a stuff sack, compressed enough to pack, but not enough to risk ripping it.

[Ramblinrev]

Yeah... that's the conclusion I came to. My skins are already on the hammock and I don't feel like undoing the ring buckles just to take them off. I already have skins for my tarp anyway.

[JaxHiker]

This isn't fair! There should be pain and agony! :D

[BillyBob58]

This isn't fair! There should be pain and agony! :D

:lol: ........................

[TonyF]

there is probably going to be a gap between now and when I get the vid produced. I have very important plans for later in the week that I need to prepare for. So I will spending my time doing tasks related to that event for the next couple of days.

I seem to have gotten it together on the first try. It seems very nice. I did wrestle some with putting the snakeskins on over it and I have tried to put the heat sheet in yet. I also can't see how you can get the foam into the snakeskins. I have the #4 which are the largest and there is about enough room for the undercover and top cover. I'll have to check back in the threads and see what is said. But I expect to have the video done early next week.

YOU REALLY HAVE YOUR PRIORITIES WRONG. VIDEO FIRST, THEN OTHER DUTIES. My SS was delivered this week and am waiting for the video before delving into the set up. Talk about priorities.

[Cannibal]

New gear! And you're waiting!?
Man, we've got a lot of work to do with you. :D

[Ramblinrev]

You don't "need" the video. Just don't get the bugger turned inside out. unfold the pad and lay it on the ground so it matches up what you think it should look like. It really is simple to put together.

[BillyBob58]

You don't "need" the video. Just don't get the bugger turned inside out. unfold the pad and lay it on the ground so it matches up what you think it should look like. It really is simple to put together.

Good to hear that it set up in a pretty straightforward manner first time for a newby( new to SS at least) for a change. Now all that's left is maybe some experimentation to see what you have with you that works good to add on top of the pad or down in the UC to boost warmth. And maybe to see if you will need to make any tension adjustments when you add these things.

But for most of the year, with lows well above the 30s and especially the 40s, I don't really have to add anything. Except, of course, the SB.

[Ramblinrev]

I haven't had it in the woods yet. Next weekend I planning on a hang in my neck of the woods if anybody want to join me. I'll post something when I get back if there is interest. Some of thate forest land is fabulous and I'll have my vid cam along so I can show you some of it. There is a real ewok village back in there where you could hang for days right along a creek. Off road bicycle route through the hills and woods. I gotta get my bike out there when it gets warmer. I don;t really have cold weather riding clothes.