View Full Version : Techniques for folding a silicon-nylon tarp
Hello,
I just bought a new silicon-nylon tarp, the Guide model from Mountain Equipment Coop (MEC). It's my first silicon tarp and it's a mess to fold because it sticks and traps air.
I have tried searching the forum and YouTube to find various ways people use to properly fold their silicon-nylon tarp. I have not found any results.
I know many simply push it in its bag, but I like my pack clean and organized.
How do you fold your tarp? Any video links?
Thanks !
I would think using a pair of skins and rolling into them would be easiest
MEC sells snakeskins (http://www.mec.ca/product/5027-392/hennessy-snake-skins-xl-instant-stuff-sack/?q=hennessy) that make setting up and take down fairly easy. Vendors here sell them made of no-see-um but if you just want top check them out and if you don't like them you can return them.
I saw a tarp once that stuck together like that. Silicone impregnated fabric should not stick together like pulling plastic wrap apart. That sort of thing is a issue with the coatings.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Gladiator_Thumb_Down_01.gif.pagespeed.ce.wObShtGZx u.gif
Well, it could also be an issue with the seam sealant not having been applied right or not have cured fully.
you do not want to fold tarps, it create creases that eventually will make the tarp less water proof..that is the reason we stuff or use snakeskins ant it sounds that it way be a pu coated tarp?
I agree with pgibson, in my experience silnylon is extremely slippery, which is why some diyers have a little trouble sewing it.
Storage wise my diy winter tarp gets stuffed into a doubke ended stuffsack that is about 3 litres in size; it will easily compress to half of that, in my mind, when its in its sack, it is clean and organised... it takes about 20 secs to put away and it doesn't touch the ground so there is no risk of dirtying or damaging it.
I'm not trying to cast aspersions upon your information, but you're sure that you got the silnylon version of the Guides tarp? The reason I ask is that there's also a polyester version with a polyethylene coating that might be sticky-ish (I've never worked with polyethylene coating on fabrics, so I could be wrong here). Is it possible that they sent you the wrong tarp?
As far as folding, I highly recommend rolling the tarp and using either a set of snakeskins or a continuous ridgeline (if you need info on that, I can help) with Velcro cable ties (http://www.officezilla.com/p-reusable-self-gripping-cable-ties-14-x-8-inches-black-25-tiespack-VEK91141.aspx?gclid=CJjn44y-_rsCFaxr7Aod8S4A8w) to hold the rolled tarp in place. This makes it a single longish unit that is quick and easy to deploy in high winds and/or rain. Personally, I'm willing to chance a few raindrops in the evening most nights for the chance to see the stars, since I can set up my tarp across the top of the hammock and have it ready to go in less than two minutes from a sleeping start.
YMMV, of course.
OneClick
01-14-2014, 15:40
Stuff that baby in there! I'm OCD about organization but stuffing and cramming is the way to go.
nacra533
01-14-2014, 19:56
I use skins and ball it up in my pack.
Sil shouldn't stick together as others have stated. If its sticking, it's coated or your seam sealing is tacky, which mine is. A little talc powder helps a lot if its just the seam.
a polyethylene coating that might be sticky-ish (I've never worked with polyethylene coating on fabrics, so I could be wrong here). Is it possible that they sent you the wrong tarp?
That was my first thought having worked with both, Sil by itsself is certainly not sticky, for PU coated fabrics the PU coated side will stick to itself. Not really stick but it won't slide along the same face side easliy. As for Sil tarp, just roll it up and stuff it in a bag. No need to fold and repeated folding will/may break Sil coating down over time if the folds are in the same place time after time....
What Paul said.
In my pre-historic days of sleeping on the ground, the sil rain fly of my tent (pardon my french) had a sticky touch to it but with a bit of use, it disappeared (and so did the tent).
I know people who love their sil-guide tarp. You could try weighing yours to check you have the right one. The non-sil version is way heavier. Worse case, MEC has a great return policy so you can get something different even if there's nothing wrong with the one you bought.
And the only time my tarps aren't just stuffed in their sack is when they're in use or airing out.
My pack has a shelter pocket that my tarp gets stuffed into.
Roll it up while it is still suspended from your continuous ridge line
Pull on the mesh snakeskins from Mountain Goat.
Figure eight your continuous ridge line and stuff those into the mesh snakeskin pockets.
Fold from one end to the next, like a big cinnamon roll.
Slide into stuff sack.
If wet, just stuff into mesh and strap outside.
ADKrella
01-14-2014, 22:09
Heres how Shug does it on one of his tarps...not sure what he does about long tern storage..
Are you sure its silnylon?
I know that heat is no bueno for Polyethylene nylon and it can be sticky...
Not sure if your is ...but Ive had sticky Polyethylene ones that eventually de laminated.
2:00 mins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8K8dDUzuOU&list=SP851BCD042A98F269
Thanks to each and everyone of you for providing your input! It's easy to find documentation on various tarp pitches and hammock suspension but few people discuss about teardown and storage.
I understand that quick and simple stuffing into sacks if often the easiest but I usually prefer to organize my stuff in such way that it stays like new and is ready to use under the most adverse conditions.
Camp teardown is almost as important as camp setup for me, especially when I am on multi-day trips spreading over several camp locations. It's easy to be caught off guard when setting up in the dark after packing lazy the day before.
I'm not trying to cast aspersions upon your information, but you're sure that you got the silnylon version of the Guides tarp? The reason I ask is that there's also a polyester version with a polyethylene coating that might be sticky-ish (I've never worked with polyethylene coating on fabrics, so I could be wrong here). Is it possible that they sent you the wrong tarp?
I am 100% sure that I have the right tarp. The name/model is printed on it and the coating is definitely different than previous polyethylene coated tarps I've had in the past. Thanks !
Sil by itsself is certainly not sticky, for PU coated fabrics the PU coated side will stick to itself. Not really stick but it won't slide along the same face side easliy.
That's exactly what I wanted to convey, it is not sticky but does not slide well when folding. English being my secondary language, I might have expressed myself wrong. Thanks !
In my pre-historic days of sleeping on the ground, the sil rain fly of my tent (pardon my french) had a sticky touch to it but with a bit of use, it disappeared (and so did the tent). (...) You could try weighing yours to check you have the right one.
That's good to know. I am looking forward to see if becomes more slippery after use. Thanks!
Roll it up while it is still suspended from your continuous ridge line
Pull on the mesh snakeskins from Mountain Goat.
Figure eight your continuous ridge line and stuff those into the mesh snakeskin pockets.
Fold from one end to the next, like a big cinnamon roll.
Slide into stuff sack.
If wet, just stuff into mesh and strap outside.
That is the best suggestion so far! Good idea to roll while suspended and keep off the ground. I will also check out the snakeskins or maybe will end up making my own so I can customize with additional pouches for my cordage and other accessories on my ridgeline (lamp hook, clips for my organizer pouches, ThermaCell clip, etc.). Thanks !
oldpappy
01-15-2014, 11:08
That is the best suggestion so far! Good idea to roll while suspended and keep off the ground. I will also check out the snakeskins or maybe will end up making my own so I can customize with additional pouches for my cordage and other accessories on my ridgeline (lamp hook, clips for my organizer pouches, ThermaCell clip, etc.). Thanks !
I roll mine while suspended also - I keep Hammock in snakeskins and the rolled up tarp in a separate very small fishnet bag.
That is the best suggestion so far! Good idea to roll while suspended and keep off the ground. I will also check out the snakeskins or maybe will end up making my own so I can customize with additional pouches for my cordage and other accessories on my ridgeline (lamp hook, clips for my organizer pouches, ThermaCell clip, etc.). Thanks !
Some small Velcro straps can help lessen the trapped air too. While hangin, roll the center, both hanging sides, to the ridge line and Velcro the middle the go out tithe end, roll up, Velcro mid span and end. Repeat other side. Should berolled skinny enough to allow your skins on easy. Fan fold or cinnamon roll from one end. Every tarp I have fits I to the original stuff sack done this way as the snakeskins are not hard stuffed, more contained. Mountain Goat's tarp skins are perfection for this method.
I stuff :) There is a school of thought that holds that folding on the same lines will degrade the coating over time. That may be true with polyurethane coatings. Silnylon is so slippery that it can be hard to fold neatly outside by yourself, where you just end up getting it dirty.
I use a mesh bag adapted to use as a bishop bag and the whole shebang gets stuffed in it. It will all come out to hang and dry when I get home. I do like loose storage for the long term.
If you don't use a stuff sack, folding will be neater in the pack--- if you can get it to stay put. There is no "proper" way. Fold and roll to a size that fits in the stuff sack would be my approach, but like I said, in reality I stuff :)
sargevining
01-15-2014, 14:20
I am 100% sure that I have the right tarp. The name/model is printed on it and the coating is definitely different than previous polyethylene coated tarps I've had in the past. Thanks !
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but if that tarp has a coating, it isn't a sil nylon tarp. With Sil nlyon, the silicone is impregnated into the fabric.
OldRagFreeze
01-15-2014, 14:45
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but if that tarp has a coating, it isn't a sil nylon tarp. With Sil nlyon, the silicone is impregnated into the fabric.
I think he just means the feel of the tarp in general. I could see someone calling it a 'coating.'
overthinker
01-15-2014, 15:13
Camp teardown is almost as important as camp setup for me, especially when I am on multi-day trips spreading over several camp locations. It's easy to be caught off guard when setting up in the dark after packing lazy the day before.
+1 for snakeskins with a continuous ridgeline to solve these problems. Just pull the whole package out of your pack, connect to trees, and stake out. Really fast and simple, and most people store this on the outside of the pack for easy access and to dry out while traveling.
That is the best suggestion so far! Good idea to roll while suspended and keep off the ground. I will also check out the snakeskins or maybe will end up making my own so I can customize with additional pouches for my cordage and other accessories on my ridgeline (lamp hook, clips for my organizer pouches, ThermaCell clip, etc.). Thanks !
This would be a good place to start:
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1408
Ramblinrev
01-15-2014, 15:17
If I understand correctly, silnyl now comes in two compositions. The more expensive is silicon _impregnated_ nylon. The other, cheaper composition is silicon _coated_ nylon. Needless to say, among the low end products I would expect to find the silicon _coated_ nylon masquerading as the more expensive stuff.
newfieghost
01-15-2014, 16:36
I have the same tarp and I find that leaving the bag attached to the center and stuffing it in with the four corners in last the trapped air is kept to a minimum.
Drybones
01-15-2014, 16:46
I just got into the hammock business, made two hammocks and a tarp, first time I put the tarp up the wind was blowing, really hard to deal with a tarp in high wind, made a set of snake skins, they work great.
you do not want to fold tarps, it create creases that eventually will make the tarp less water proof..that is the reason we stuff or use snakeskins ant it sounds that it way be a pu coated tarp?
ill second that, i stuff my tarps. not good to fold em
SilvrSurfr
01-15-2014, 18:40
I can't imagine how you would fold a tarp in the field - you would either need an assistant, or you'd have to lay it on the ground (which would defeat the OCD/neatfreak goal of keeping everything neat, clean and organized).
nothermark
01-15-2014, 20:13
FWIW - I never heard of a polyethylene coated tarp but polyurethane is pretty common for tarps and rain gear. It comes in two coating thickness's.
Silnylon has some differences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silnylon
explains it better than I can. I will be more suspicious of Sil. ;-)
ADKrella
01-15-2014, 20:18
FWIW - I never heard of a polyethylene coated tarp but polyurethane is pretty common for tarps and rain gear. It comes in two coating thickness's.
Silnylon has some differences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silnylon
explains it better than I can. I will be more suspicious of Sil. ;-)
polyethylene (http://www.mec.ca/product/5027-714/mec-guides-tarp/#tab2) waterproofing under specs tab.
visionarylion
01-15-2014, 20:42
I can't imagine how you would fold a tarp in the field - you would either need an assistant, or you'd have to lay it on the ground (which would defeat the OCD/neatfreak goal of keeping everything neat, clean and organized).
My thoughts exactly
This would be a good place to start:
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1408
Thanks, very useful link. I could have digged this forum for months without noticing this thread.
first time I put the tarp up the wind was blowing, really hard to deal with a tarp in high wind
I can't imagine how you would fold a tarp in the field - you would either need an assistant, or you'd have to lay it on the ground (which would defeat the OCD/neatfreak goal of keeping everything neat, clean and organized).
I haven't tried so far but would tend to agree. I am used to fold my good ol' polyethylene blue tarp by keeping one side stacked and using the ridgeline as a third hand, but the method would not work for this new tarp. I actually started the topic before trying it out in the field.
polyethylene (http://www.mec.ca/product/5027-714/mec-guides-tarp/#tab2) waterproofing under specs tab.
Yup. The two sides feel different to the touch, so I believe it's just a coating.
nothermark
01-16-2014, 16:12
polyethylene (http://www.mec.ca/product/5027-714/mec-guides-tarp/#tab2) waterproofing under specs tab.
As I said it is nothing I ever heard of. I looked before and did not see it as something available. I looked again and found one reference:
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/230296482_Hydrophilic_property_of_polyester_fabric _coated_with_polyethylene_glycolated_bisphenol_A
That would make it a good cotton equivalent, not waterproof.
My real point is either MEC made a mistake in the Specs or you have a new material few if any other folks here have seen. It is not something that has been around long or we would have seen it. Polyethylene coated paper is common and gives a slick shiny finish - think bonded Saran Wrap. Polyethylene tarps are the standard blue (or whatever) plastic tarp. If they laminated that over polyester ripstop it's a new ball game.
ADKrella
01-16-2014, 16:28
As I said it is nothing I ever heard of. I looked before and did not see it as something available. I looked again and found one reference:
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/230296482_Hydrophilic_property_of_polyester_fabric _coated_with_polyethylene_glycolated_bisphenol_A
That would make it a good cotton equivalent, not waterproof.
My real point is either MEC made a mistake in the Specs or you have a new material few if any other folks here have seen. It is not something that has been around long or we would have seen it. Polyethylene coated paper is common and gives a slick shiny finish - think bonded Saran Wrap. Polyethylene tarps are the standard blue (or whatever) plastic tarp. If they laminated that over polyester ripstop it's a new ball game.
Cool.
I was just pointing out what the website said trying to help OP in his Sticky situation.
And your probably right..
I must have had a polyurethane tarp that delamed on me because it was a while ago.....
Its silnylon for now then cuben in the future for myself anyway...:)
As I said it is nothing I ever heard of. I looked before and did not see it as something available. I looked again and found one reference:
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/230296482_Hydrophilic_property_of_polyester_fabric _coated_with_polyethylene_glycolated_bisphenol_A
That would make it a good cotton equivalent, not waterproof.
My real point is either MEC made a mistake in the Specs or you have a new material few if any other folks here have seen. It is not something that has been around long or we would have seen it. Polyethylene coated paper is common and gives a slick shiny finish - think bonded Saran Wrap. Polyethylene tarps are the standard blue (or whatever) plastic tarp. If they laminated that over polyester ripstop it's a new ball game.
I actually have the Silicon Guide model, not the standard guide model. It is indeed silicon coated according to the specs.
Specs: http://www.mec.ca/product/5027-716/mec-silicone-guides-tarp (http://www.mec.ca/product/5027-716/mec-silicone-guides-tarp/)
I must confess the green color I got is fugly.
swoody126
01-16-2014, 21:07
PEANUTS is quite correct about folds causing weakness
all synthetics suffer similar effects, some more so than others
we began stuffing our sails because the maker explained this to us, MANY years ago
since then, we have either stuffed or rolled all of our toys made from synthetic materials
tents, sleeping bags, jackets, sails, tarps....
as for the stickiness of the OP's tarp, it sounds like a defective finish, butt i can't swear to it
over the years, i have had some materials develop a stickiness, due to being put away wet & neglected too long before thoroughly drying/tending them:(
i might suggest contacting the manufacturer about the stickiness
just an old man's 2¢ worth
sw
Law Dawg (ret)
01-17-2014, 11:29
Just got a WL Bullfrog tarp and it came all nicely folded in the stuff sack. Could not wait to slip it into my mesh tarp sleeves...I fold nothing now (except clothing cause I am married). Easy to know immediately where the ridge line tabs are and it takes two shakes to wrap around itself when packing away. Get some sleeves, use the tarp until it starts to stick and smell like puke too much (should take awhile), and save beer cans. Then buy a quality silnylon tarp. You wont regret it. ;)
dustinpn
01-22-2014, 11:23
I would have never guessed that folding causes less damage than just stuffing the tarp in. I use snake skins and currently fold the tarp over the ridge line a few times to get it small enough to easily get into the skins. Guess I'll have to try just pulling the snake skins down and letting the tarp go in however it wants.
XTrekker
01-22-2014, 11:32
I use mesh snakeskins and I just roll my tarp up to the ridge line and then slide the snakeskins over.