View Full Version : I want to get a patent
Does anyone out there have any experience with getting patents on their ideas? I have a pretty good idea for an improved pulk sled, made a few for friends and think this could actually become something.
Any Idears??
Maybe start here…..http://www.uspto.gov
Google search Patent and lots will come up.
Carry forth.
Shug
bowl-maker
01-31-2014, 09:58
Post the idea on here and maybe we can help. ;-)
Having worked for a small business that patented 3 ideas I can definitely say be prepared to break out your wallet. Patents are very expensive. There's countless hours of research before you even apply for it. Any lawyers time isn't cheap. I think patent lawyers are even more expensive. Unless your idea is truly groundbreaking, it might not be worth it.
I have on patent pending. It is crazy how much it costs and how easy it is to get around. There are different reasons for getting patents but your reason is to protect a product you are going to sell, realize you will have to sell a lot.
gnarus8429
01-31-2014, 10:35
As all others have noted it is not easy. I had patent pending for a forensic light source. That was pretty cheap. If you have Score (free non profit business advice from retired professionals) I got it all done for $400. That is good for a year. The hope would be to sell the idea in that time. If not then you will be messing with a full patent. That is when it will cost. A friend spent over $10,000 filing and defending his patent.
http://www.score.org/
gogrillz
01-31-2014, 10:40
I have a patent on my Gogrillz (http://gogrillz.com/) and yes it was expensive. But it's the only way to protect your idea. You could do it yourself, but unless you know what your doing, it may end up costing you more than a hiring patent attorney. Good luck with it!
Hawk-eye
01-31-2014, 10:40
I have on patent pending. .....
SERIOUSLY ... you're going to patent some of that alien technology you've been messing with? :woot:
SERIOUSLY ... you're going to patent some of that alien technology you've been messing with? :woot:
Actually the Titanium Dutch Clip is patent pending.
Hawk-eye
01-31-2014, 11:06
Actually the Titanium Dutch Clip is patent pending.
Now ya went and dun' it! :woot:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5489/12237753264_eb49ebed4f_o.jpg
Thanks for the info guys. I figured it will probably be a big expense.
GrizzlyAdams
01-31-2014, 11:53
I got a patent for something I did in my day job. In retrospect I might not have bothered. First it cost my employer $30K, and now that I've licensed the technology and patent from them for a start-up, my start-up has to pay that back because we use that IP.
I've come to see that to get involved in patents means having to be prepared to pay lawyers, either to defend yourself when someone else claims you or your patent infringes on them and theirs, or to go after someone who you believe is infringing on your patent. There are no patent police to protect you in either case. It all gets settled in court.
In retrospect I think would have preferred to let it ride and not go the patent route. From here I'm not seeing the cost benefit analysis breaking in my favor.
I did buy a nice patent plaque that hangs on my office wall and looks cool. The most expensive hanging ornament I've got, to be sure.
And yet Seth Boyden never applied for a patent for patent leather, go figure.
It seems possible that the cost of said patent for a fancy pulk sled may actually exceed the actual profit I might make from such a specialized item.
Market it as a fancy cherry winter transportation vessel, should be able to sell a few of those in your neck of the woods.
Winter wine tour wagon maybe? As we have many wineries, and micro breweries for that matter, around here.
Gsx-rboy750
01-31-2014, 13:30
I also got something i want to patent reguarding backpacking gear. After talking with my dad who also has a patent or two thru work he said i better off just making it and selling it at a good price.
canoebie
01-31-2014, 13:34
Retrofit it to hold growlers. :boggle:
I have about seven or so patents. They were paid for by my employer. I have had quite a few hours of consultation with some very high per-hour patent attorneys. If you want to PM me, I will assist you any way I can.
There are ways to do this cheaper than the traditional route, but your circumstances will dictate whether it is a good idea for you.
TheTurtle
06-02-2014, 09:47
I haven't yet been intelligent enough to have an idea worth patenting, but it's something I've always thought about and am always looking at ordinary items and thinking there has to be a way to make this better...
My Great Grandfather actually made for himself at least three machines that were later patented and he would have been a multi millionaire. These include a three wheeler with a bed that's very similar to the side by side utility vehicles of today. He used it around the farm to check fences and cattle. My mother said he made it when she was small so it would have been at least 45 to 50 years ago.
He used car parts for the most part. I remember the seat was from what looked to be a school bus. And it had a hydraulic dump bed.
I wish you the best of luck, whichever route you decide to go.
TheFirePitGuy
06-02-2014, 11:36
If you are serious about applying for a patent then be very careful about any kind of public disclosure of your idea or invention. Get a confidentiality agreement and have everyone sign it before you discuss or show your idea to anyone. There are disclosure laws that, if violated would compromise your ability to apply for a patent. Don't take this lightly. I wish you much success in your endeavor!
hikenbike
06-02-2014, 13:36
I'd like to second what Dutch said... If you pursue a patent it should be part of a realistic and peer reviewed business plan. The objective of the patent could be to license the idea, or to protect the product you plan to produce. The business plan should support one of these approaches. If it doesn't, you may just have a really expensive idea (for you). Good luck.
Buckeye Bill
07-29-2014, 02:44
A friend of mine holds a few patents for various things. He told me one of the things he did was make a scale drawing on a sheet of paper and then he mailed it to himself. He never opened it until someone tried to say he stole their idea. The postmark on the envelope save him every time, proving when he thought the idea up.
I am not a lawyer but 100% of my work as a Forensic CPA involves LItigation. A retired Judge who I greatly respected (he passed last year) and who basically got me into this business once said after he retired: "If they really wanted justice, why in the world did they come to the Justice system?"
If your very conservative, independently challenged business plan does not support $25-50,000 per year to defend your patent don't bother.
Keep it a secret but my very best friends are patent attorneys and from what they have taught me I stay as far away from that area of practice as I can unless asked to by a Judge. (Yes you Honor; I would be happy to assist the Court anyway I can." It is darn interesting working for a Judge and my work is my #1 hobby.)
If you are determined to proceed ,there are thousands of C+ and B and even some a- lawyers who have just got their law degree and license who can not get work and can barely eat because of their school loans. A lawyer friend of mine in Ft. Worth says he can get BUSLOADS of excellent new lawyers for less than $20 per hour. You probably could find a very bright new patent lawyer who would do the work for $5,000(Paid over time) plus a 33% interest or even less. Understand that China or Nam or someone else overseas will copy the idea and disappear when the heat gets turned on. I have worked for a federal bankruptcy Court where a pretty well (initially) capitalized US Company got cheated out of their intellectual property by people in China . Also, memorize The Art of War before you begin because everything done in China business basically follows that book.
Regards and may you have good luck,
Paul
This video is long but good.
24:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHjgK6p4nrw#t=1489
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHjgK6p4nrw#t=1489
And then in the Q&A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHjgK6p4nrw#t=4723
Good luck with your idea! I looked into a patent a few years ago----lots of info out there (very confusing!) Here's a couple of tidbits I learned: 1. a patent doesnt protect your product from being copied---it just gives you the right to bring someone to court who has copied your product(think lots of legal fees) 2. On the other hand, theres almost a mythology about patents and just seeing the words "patent pending" are enough to scare off most people who want to copy your idea. (but dont just put "patent pending " on your product--huge federal fine if you get caught!) 3. They changed the patent system a few years back--as a "micro entity" the fees are much cheaper. 4. The first year after you file is pretty cheap (a provisional patent) but after your patent has been issued, the fees are pretty steep. 5. if you have ever spent much time looking around Google patents, you quickly come to realize that lots and lots of people have wasted millions of dollars in patent fees, ---going thru the patent process for ideas that just arnt very good for any body! I read somewhere that only a very small percentage of patents ever make any money .
An alternative is to design your idea with something unique built in---that the average person doesnt have the tooling or capability to copy. Also you have to realize that if its a good idea, it Will be copied by some one! If not here, in another country-(unless you get a international patent, us patents are limited to the USA)
In my case, I gave up an moved on to something else---it just wasnt worth the effort and cost. Some people get around a patent by selling a book telling how to make the product---much cheaper to copywrite a document than to get a patent---plus alot less liability! Good luck!
A friend of mine holds a few patents for various things. He told me one of the things he did was make a scale drawing on a sheet of paper and then he mailed it to himself. He never opened it until someone tried to say he stole their idea. The postmark on the envelope save him every time, proving when he thought the idea up.
I've heard of that before (I believe they called it "the poor mans patent)----from everything I read, its not fool proof and isnt really considered legal evidence of prior art. (I believe they changed the patent rules a few years back---it used to be based on who invented it first---now its based on who filed the patent first?)
does any one else have experiance with this?
Heres something I've always wondered: As far as I know, the Jacks at "jacks are better" were the first to come up with the underquilt. What would have happend if they had patented it?
I'm a patent attorney. I thought I had commented on this before. Looks like I didn't. Regarding the "poor man's patent" (also known as poor man's copyright), it is completely worthless. Yes, keep good records about what you invented and when. But there is no need to mail it to yourself (or anyone else).
Regarding the video posted above, I completely agree with what the speaker says at 24:50 and later at 1:18:45. I didn't watch the rest of the video, but those are the sections where the speaker discusses the value of patents (or lack of value).
Generally speaking, acquiring a patent is expensive and time-consuming. Enforcing a patent is exponentially more expensive and time-consuming.
Regarding the "what-if" scenario, I believe that Clark got some patents on some hammock technology. Folks sometimes get up in arms about "how could they patent something so basic?" Patents are highly technical legal documents. They are very specific. In most instances, the scope of protection is much narrower than what those owning the patent would have you believe.
Smithereens
11-03-2014, 13:04
If you can't patent your idea, at the very least open source it. It would be possible for you to start producing your product, only to have someone with more money patent your idea and then come back on you for infringment. Open sourcing would prevent that from happening.
Read up on graphene, it's an eye opening look into our messed up patent system.
If you can't patent your idea, at the very least open source it. It would be possible for you to start producing your product, only to have someone with more money patent your idea and then come back on you for infringment. Open sourcing would prevent that from happening.
Read up on graphene, it's an eye opening look into our messed up patent system.
In engineering school Professers would teach that a patent wasn't to keep people from copying you but to allow you to keep making it.
In engineering school Professers would teach that a patent wasn't to keep people from copying you but to allow you to keep making it.
Your professors were wrong. A patent is a "negative right" meaning that it does not grant the patent owner the right to practice the invention. A patent grants the owner the right to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, and importing the patented invention (within the U.S.).
This is a pretty old thread, now, so I think the issue is moot, but in case anyone finds this thread in the future, I wouldn't want them to be misled.
got hammocks?
12-28-2014, 13:30
This is an old thread but I would like to throw in my two cents. First of all you can do your own provisional patent application for relatively cheap. This can help give you at least a year to market and sell your product and to see if it is profitable enough to hire a patent attorney. Another way to get some protection is to disclose the inventions, like on this forum for example. After you disclose it you have a year to file for the patent while trying to sell your product. This will also prevent others from patenting your idea in the meantime. The problem with this is after the year goes by, no one can patent this idea. Some of these rules have gone into effect this year. The U.S. used to be a first to invent country and now is a first to file country. Please note that I am not an expert so please verify that my statements are correct by doing your own research.
TheFirePitGuy
12-29-2014, 18:04
This is an old thread but I would like to throw in my two cents. First of all you can do your own provisional patent application for relatively cheap. This can help give you at least a year to market and sell your product and to see if it is profitable enough to hire a patent attorney. Another way to get some protection is to disclose the inventions, like on this forum for example. After you disclose it you have a year to file for the patent while trying to sell your product. This will also prevent others from patenting your idea in the meantime. The problem with this is after the year goes by, no one can patent this idea. Some of these rules have gone into effect this year. The U.S. used to be a first to invent country and now is a first to file country. Please note that I am not an expert so please verify that my statements are correct by doing your own research.
I would be very cautious about any disclosures (public or private) after filing a "provisional". There are very specific regulations regarding disclosures that must be followed and is spelled out at the USPTO site. It costs nothing to research this at the site. Violate these regulations and you loose your right to file a patent application. See a patent attorney first and foremost on all patent related issues. It is well worth the money you'll spend.
I am also in total agreement with what Celly said above.
peterhase
01-24-2015, 08:17
Whatever your idea is, I hope it gets off the ground – patent or no patent :) Good luck!
My father was a chemical engineer and he had numerous patents relating to petroleum and industrial anti pollution products and chemicals. They were worth millions and someone else always bought in a provided the means for the patents, which he then sold back or leased. It was apparently insanely expensive, but more than that it was full of legal challenges. Keep in mind that you have to file the patent in every single country under which you want protection. File only in the US and you can't enforce the patent if it is manufactured and sold elsewhere. You also will not be able to enforce a patent unless a large company is behind you as you will quickly bleed dry from the lawyer and court expenses.
I hate to sound gloomy about it, but from the little I was witness to over the decades, it's one of those things that sounds like it is for everyone, but in many cases it's really for mid sized and larger corporations. Also being granted a patent is not the end of things as far as being fully protected. Lastly, it really better be somehow unique which does not fall under other patented ideas. Things to do with laws of nature and abstract ideas are if I remember right not patentable and there are probably other not expected. You can patent processes if the process is truly unique . I used to deal a bit with copy-right law. When I used to get headaches about it ... I remember thinking "at least it's not patent law. :)
So in short, if you don't think it's worth serious money over time and if you are certain that it is a useful process hitherto unused in ANY other industrial process AND have decent money to spend ... don't bother. It's more vanity that use. Man, I hate to sound so negative, but as a last point, I think that many who get patents granted over-estimate the protection that they get. You always have to go to court and in a small cottage style industry only the truly unwise who didn't take it to heart that you should incorporate and don't know how to structure their assets are in any danger from a claim for damages. And those will be peanuts compared to your costs and ability to recoup.
OlTrailDog
10-23-2017, 21:06
If it is a really great idea the best way would be talk to a patent attorney instead of winging it. Hope it works out because:
Pulks are outstanding for toting a load in the back country during winter. I manged to convince this crew that it was the way to go when we traversed Yellowstone way back in Ought Six, and they were darn glad they hearkened to my suggestion.
156340
Five Tango
11-20-2018, 06:51
It seems possible that the cost of said patent for a fancy pulk sled may actually exceed the actual profit I might make from such a specialized item.
I am sitting here wondering what a sled is,what a pulk is,what snow is.Wait,I did see some snow once in 1973 during the Great Blizzard of Central Georgia.;)
IRONFISH45
11-20-2018, 06:52
My father was a chemical engineer and he had numerous patents relating to petroleum and industrial anti pollution products and chemicals. They were worth millions and someone else always bought in a provided the means for the patents, which he then sold back or leased. It was apparently insanely expensive, but more than that it was full of legal challenges. Keep in mind that you have to file the patent in every single country under which you want protection. File only in the US and you can't enforce the patent if it is manufactured and sold elsewhere. You also will not be able to enforce a patent unless a large company is behind you as you will quickly bleed dry from the lawyer and court expenses.
I hate to sound gloomy about it, but from the little I was witness to over the decades, it's one of those things that sounds like it is for everyone, but in many cases it's really for mid sized and larger corporations. Also being granted a patent is not the end of things as far as being fully protected. Lastly, it really better be somehow unique which does not fall under other patented ideas. Things to do with laws of nature and abstract ideas are if I remember right not patentable and there are probably other not expected. You can patent processes if the process is truly unique . I used to deal a bit with copy-right law. When I used to get headaches about it ... I remember thinking "at least it's not patent law. :)
So in short, if you don't think it's worth serious money over time and if you are certain that it is a useful process hitherto unused in ANY other industrial process AND have decent money to spend ... don't bother. It's more vanity that use. Man, I hate to sound so negative, but as a last point, I think that many who get patents granted over-estimate the protection that they get. You always have to go to court and in a small cottage style industry only the truly unwise who didn't take it to heart that you should incorporate and don't know how to structure their assets are in any danger from a claim for damages. And those will be peanuts compared to your costs and ability to recoup.
Another factor with patents is the fact that Patent Laws vary between countries. United States Patent Laws are different vs Canadian vs Mexico vs England.
Recent Patent issue from one of our cottave vendor's involved Warbonnet stopping a start-up competitor from copying one of their designs.
I have nothing to say pro or anti patent. I will say I'm a D.I.Y.'er and no matter what it is your selling, I'll probably D.I.Y. it cheaper at home for personal use, not production.
Having said that I'd suggest offering plans in PDF file for $5 or $10. Copyright might be easier than a patent? You could sell thousands of plans even though only a few might actually get built.
I am going to share an example and I think you could contact either one of these guy's with a question about it. They are great folks and helpful.
Not hammock related but plans in PDF examples.
http://www.elkinsdiy.com/
https://simplesolarhomesteading.com/
SilvrSurfr
11-20-2018, 15:06
I am sitting here wondering what a sled is,what a pulk is,what snow is.Wait,I did see some snow once in 1973 during the Great Blizzard of Central Georgia.;)
While all this discussion about patents is interesting, I find the original post to be unintentionally funny. Seriously, a patent for an improved pulk sled? Don't want people ripping off your improved pulk sled idea for thousands or millions of dollars? The pulk sled business can be highly profitable, but it is a cutthroat and vicious business and you'll need a patent to survive!:lol:
Now let me go work on my patent for an improved bellybutton lint remover (it involves gasoline and flame).
Five Tango
11-20-2018, 17:29
I have probably had only one good idea in my life.Company management paid a patent attorney to tell us that it was too simple and not unique.So much for that but it was quite effective anyway.
cmc4free
11-20-2018, 19:39
I work for a medium sized company and I have one patent for something I "invented" working there. The company has paid a great deal of money to be able to hang a plaque on the wall, but I am almost certain they'd never go to the even greater expense to defend it if ever infringed upon. Especially so due to the fact that any infringers would likely come from the far East.