Hanging on the PCT

[guySmiley]

I've been reading a ton of material about the PCT lately and it looks to me like the earlier part of it that's desert isn't very conducive to hanging a hammock.

Has anyone here got any experience trying to thru the PCT with a hammock as their primary shelter? How often did you have to sleep on the ground because there weren't trees or suitable hanging spots available?

[titanium_hiker]

I'm not planning to hike the PCT any time soon, but I'd love to know this sort of info.

I guess you could ground set up your hammock, carry stuff so you can hang from boulders, and pray for trees.

TH

[miisterwright]

I was going to let others reply that may have more experience, but since no one has.... I'll say that I have not had any problems hanging in the northern parts. I live in Oregon and hike on or intersect the PCT regularly. Washington, Oregon, and Northern California should be great for hanging. I can't say anything about the South, because I haven't been down there.

Make sure you have plenty of webbing. The trees can be huge.

[guySmiley]

I'm not planning to hike the PCT any time soon, but I'd love to know this sort of info.

I guess you could ground set up your hammock, carry stuff so you can hang from boulders, and pray for trees.

TH

I think I'd just ground setup the bugnet/tarp (if necessary) and not bother with the hammock, if I couldn't hang it. What I really want to do is avoid bringing a sleeping pad, but that sounds like it wouldn't be practical.

I'm taking that long conspicuous silence on an otherwise very active messageboard as an answer or sorts, but thanks for replying!

[guySmiley]

I was going to let others reply that may have more experience, but since no one has.... I'll say that I have not had any problems hanging in the northern parts. I live in Oregon and hike on or intersect the PCT regularly. Washington, Oregon, and Northern California should be great for hanging. I can't say anything about the South, because I haven't been down there.

Make sure you have plenty of webbing. The trees can be huge.

Good advice! How long are the straps that you use?

[miisterwright]

I use 12' straps, but I generally carry about a 100' of mule tape. It's a narrow webbing that is used to pull power lines up. I'm not sure what the breaking strength is, but the local telecommunications company was using it to pull a bucket truck back to the road... up hill. They would have got it too, but the truck was stuck in park. The mule tape didn't fail. It's not all that heavy to carry and is strong. Plus it's webbing so I can use it on trees. It's good stuff.

[guySmiley]

I use 12' straps, but I generally carry about a 100' of mule tape. It's a narrow webbing that is used to pull power lines up. I'm not sure what the breaking strength is, but the local telecommunications company was using it to pull a bucket truck back to the road... up hill. They would have got it too, but the truck was stuck in park. The mule tape didn't fail. It's not all that heavy to carry and is strong. Plus it's webbing so I can use it on trees. It's good stuff.

My straps are 15', but it sounds like it would be prudent to get some longer ones for the PCT. If you've got any pictures of your suspension when using the mule tape, I'd be interested in seeing that. Are you using it in conjunction with your 12' straps or instead?

[Leifo5343]

Are you really using 15' straps or are they 15" straps? Just a wee bit confused.

~Leif

[miisterwright]

There really isn't much to see with the mule tape. I just wrap it around a tree that is to large for my stock strap, then clip the carabiner that is on my strap to it. It could be used instead of using the stock strap, and the stock strap could even be added to the one on the other end to add length, but I haven't had to get to crazy with it. I haven't had to use anything, but my normal straps except for in my backyard or at car camping sites where you can't really choose a good place to set up.

[guySmiley]

Are you really using 15' straps or are they 15" straps? Just a wee bit confused.

~Leif

I currently have 15 foot straps for my suspension. 15 inch straps probably wouldn't be very effective.

[lori]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3383/3563004229_6b4df76211_o.jpg

The tree on the right the strap is attached to is a cedar of about the same girth as the pine standing behind it.

If I hadn't been trying to stay close to my group in the campground there were plenty of smaller trees to use. These are typical of the Sierras in California. Subalpine the trees will get smaller, and going alpine they mostly are the size of small shrubs or nonexistant.

[Leifo5343]

That's what I figured. Thanks for the clarification.

[callook66]

550 cord is a wonderful thing, and would be perfect for light weight suspension extenders... if only 550 cord didn't stretch so much.

[miisterwright]

550 cord is a wonderful thing, and would be perfect for light weight suspension extenders... if only 550 cord didn't stretch so much.

I wouldn't personally use 550 cord in a suspension. If I absolutely had to, it would be a 3 or 4 part line. It is a must carry though. Great for lashing things together, improvising shoelaces, and in a pinch you can remove the inner strands and make fishing line. The are a lot of cheap imitations of 550 cord the real stuff is amazing.

[lori]

550 cord isn't strong enough for hammock suspension.

Amsteel, on the other hand....

[Take-a-knee]

550 cord isn't strong enough for hammock suspension.

Amsteel, on the other hand....

Amsteel rocks.

[guySmiley]

Now that I've completed the PCT I'm going to answer my own question for anyone that may have the same kind of questions.

Yes, using a hammock on the PCT is not only possible, but it can also be very practicle.

I only used a hammock for Washington, but if I were to do the whole thing again, I'd never bother with the Tarptent.

However, not bringing a groundpad would be stupid. There aren't many places that a person wouldn't be able hang on the PCT (even in SoCal), but when it happens having a pad will make the difference between a good nights sleep, or spending a cold miserable night cussing yourself out for being so stupid.

Also, I had one night in the Goat Rocks Wilderness that the cloud that I was sleeping in was blowing mist sideways in 35 degrees at (at least) 40 mph. I went to sleep that night hanging between the last two decent hanging trees before getting to the Packwood glacier. I drifted off that night very, very thankful for my Neoair pad beneath me, sandwiched between me and my underquilt.

Another thing is when I was in WA, it was the rainiest September in 30 years. Because of my hammock/tarp setup I was typically the driest hiker in the group of people that I knew. I saw many, many people in single wall tents bail off the trail for town because their down bags were completely saturated.

[SmokeHouse]

I would have thought the opposite. Hooch had a PCT movie he recommended, so of course I bought it. It look like most of the camping would have been on the ground, But since I’ve never been there and u just got back, you would know… ;)

[guySmiley]

I would have thought the opposite. Hooch had a PCT movie he recommended, so of course I bought it. It look like most of the camping would have been on the ground, But since I’ve never been there and u just got back, you would know… ;)

I don't know which movie that you're speaking of, but I've probably seen it.

I think that one of the reasons people get the impression that there aren't many trees from which to hang is part because of preconceptions of what the desert is going to be like. That's the way it was for me, at any rate.

Also, I think (as far as movies and photos go) people tend to take more photos and video in the high altitude, alpine areas, so people get the impression that's what the trail is like all over. The truth is, most of it is wooded to some extent.

[lori]

Glad to hear you made it! congrats! and good to hear you were successful in hanging most of the way - it's interesting how creative one can get with a hammock. I've been some places this year where I couldn't at all but mostly upwards of 11,000 feet in open granite slab.

[mugs]

Now that I've completed the PCT I'm going to answer my own question for anyone that may have the same kind of questions.

Yes, using a hammock on the PCT is not only possible, but it can also be very practicle.

I only used a hammock for Washington, but if I were to do the whole thing again, I'd never bother with the Tarptent.

However, not bringing a groundpad would be stupid. There aren't many places that a person wouldn't be able hang on the PCT (even in SoCal), but when it happens having a pad will make the difference between a good nights sleep, or spending a cold miserable night cussing yourself out for being so stupid.

Also, I had one night in the Goat Rocks Wilderness that the cloud that I was sleeping in was blowing mist sideways in 35 degrees at (at least) 40 mph. I went to sleep that night hanging between the last two decent hanging trees before getting to the Packwood glacier. I drifted off that night very, very thankful for my Neoair pad beneath me, sandwiched between me and my underquilt.

Another thing is when I was in WA, it was the rainiest September in 30 years. Because of my hammock/tarp setup I was typically the driest hiker in the group of people that I knew. I saw many, many people in single wall tents bail off the trail for town because their down bags were completely saturated.

Thanks for answering your own question and mine as well. So from what I gather you can hang through the whole thing..Is that correct. I have been piece mealing the Wa section over the past few years but have always wanted to do the whole thing in one shot.

Glad you made it back.

[guySmiley]

Glad to hear you made it! congrats! and good to hear you were successful in hanging most of the way - it's interesting how creative one can get with a hammock. I've been some places this year where I couldn't at all but mostly upwards of 11,000 feet in open granite slab.

Thanks Lori!

[guySmiley]

Thanks for answering your own question and mine as well. So from what I gather you can hang through the whole thing..Is that correct. I have been piece mealing the Wa section over the past few years but have always wanted to do the whole thing in one shot.

Glad you made it back.

I wouldn't say, "everywhere" but with a little forthought when planning your day in the morning, you could hang nearly every night. You wouldn't even have to be that creative about it.

Chances are though that you'll have to sleep on the ground now and again. It happened to me twice in Glacier Peak Wilderness because I wasn't as concerned with being able to hang as I was with getting more miles in. It left me above treeline after a 30+ mile day and another 3 miles before getting to a half decent spot. At that point, all I wanted to do was crash so I pitched the tarp on the ground.

That wasn't the norm though. People using tents get into a similar situations much more frequently where they need to keep walking, sometimes for a good many miles, before they can find a spot that is even marginally suitable for a tent. Even if they're willing to pitch on the trail itself.

I think that's it's very important to remain flexible. Sleeping on the ground isn't the end of the world, even if it's not your first choice.

OH! One more reason to bring the hammock: Rodents.

For some reason, pretty much everyone I saw had problems with mice in WA. Not only was I able to stay drier than most but the mice weren't chewing their way into my tent to get to my food because everything was safely off the ground. My food was in the hammock with me.

I doubt this is 100% reliable. An enterprising mouse could climb the tree and walk down my strap but it never happened. The best way to prevent it is to hang near another hiker that's using a tent so they have an easier target! :) I'm only partially kidding.

[SmokeHouse]

I don't know which movie that you're speaking of, but I've probably seen it.

I think that one of the reasons people get the impression that there aren't many trees from which to hang is part because of preconceptions of what the desert is going to be like. That's the way it was for me, at any rate.

Also, I think (as far as movies and photos go) people tend to take more photos and video in the high altitude, alpine areas, so people get the impression that's what the trail is like all over. The truth is, most of it is wooded to some extent.

I think the movie was 'Wizards'. Thanks for the info.

[Buenos]

Thanks for the info on the hanging potential of the PCT in general. I just finished section J in WA State, which was a hangin' dream! Give me more confidence when section hiking the rest of the trail.

respectfully,
Jose Diaz

[guySmiley]

I think the movie was 'Wizards'. Thanks for the info.

I haven't seen that one cuz I was on the PCT when it came out. I'm not feeling quite as obsessive about the trail at this point, but I'm sure I'll get to it. How was it?

Jester's a funny guy so I suspect it's entertaining.

[earplug94]

What a beautiful trail. I did around 600 miles around the Sierra area when I was 20. Man- I'm getting old. I went through ALOT of places to hammock. Will just have to plan a little bit more than if you were out East. What a great place to hang.

[enyapjr]

Without any doubts whatsoever, I will definitely be using a hammock on a future PCT thru-hike (or hikes? ;))...
The comfort & good nights sleep from hanging will be well worth the very slight weight 'penalty' for my total sleep/shelter system! :D

Here's a pct-l post (http://www.backcountry.net/arch/pct/0403/msg00694.html) from "Roni from Israel", who hammocked the PCT - good info for those contemplating using a hammock on the PCT...
A year before "Roni from Israel" a group of hangers was given the trailname "the Ewoks", from "Star Wars" movie for the ones that lived up in the trees ...
Hanging on the PCT has 'successfully' been done previously - so don't count it out during your planning!!

Additionally, one could 'scout' the PCT looking for likely hanging spots utilizing Google Earth...
Download the USFS PCT trace (http://www.fs.fed.us/pct/index.html) kmz file, or better yet Halfmile's PCT trace (http://www.pctmap.net/download/p/gearth.html) (it's more accurate, IMHO)...
Once opened in GE, you can zoom in and follow the trail trace looking for potential hang locations - planning ahead for some areas where you might have to stop early or hike further if you don't want to go to ground...
If one has a pad (e.g. Z-Rest) for additional bottom insulation (for a 2/3 or 3/4 UQ), one can go to ground if so decided (i.e. not letting the hammock 'dictate' your daily mileage)...

guySmiley - a belated "Congrats" on your PCT completion!!

I'm looking forward to 'hanging out' on the PCT!

[sturgeon]

OH! One more reason to bring the hammock: Rodents.

For some reason, pretty much everyone I saw had problems with mice in WA. Not only was I able to stay drier than most but the mice weren't chewing their way into my tent to get to my food because everything was safely off the ground. My food was in the hammock with me.



Hey Guy, weren't you worried about bears at all, sleeping with food in your hammock? Did you hang food sometimes or bearvault it? Just curious.
Congrats!

[guySmiley]

Hey Guy, weren't you worried about bears at all, sleeping with food in your hammock? Did you hang food sometimes or bearvault it? Just curious.
Congrats!


I used a BearVault 500 from Kennedy Meadows until Sonora Pass where I hitched into Bridgeport, CA and sent it home.

The bottom line answer to your question is no, I wasn't worried. Black bears are the only type that you need to worry about on the PCT.

Try and think like a bear. They want as many calories as they can get with as little personal danger and effort as possible (just like a thru hiker). If you have the food with you they perceive that you own it and to get it they would have to take it from you. A dangerous proposition if you're a bear. On the other hand, if you hang your food, nobody has possession of it. From their perspective it's up for grabs. All they have to do is get at it.

I think hanging is an invitation for a bear to come and try. Which could be fun to video tape.

I used the bear can in areas where it was required by law, but I didn't see a single bear in any of those areas. The reason for that might be I tend to avoid commonly used campsites, which is also a well known strategy to avoid such an encounter with bears.

[Jimmy The Jet]

Guy, I mean no disrespect, but that theory is dangerous, IMHO.
If a bear visits your site because he has smelled the food (which he has, if he's in your site.) then he's there to eat it. Keeping it with you is far too dangerous. Let him try and get it from the tree, not your hammock.
When boo-boo smells your food, he knows your there too, regardless if it's in a bear bag or not. If he comes to your site, it is already with the intention of getting it, knowing you are there.

At least, that is my feeling. I have been in camps raided by black bears several times now, and I have been policing areas with campgounds and backcountry trails for years. I can tell you, in my experience, it is always better to be separated from your food.

According Dr. S Herrero, black bears are actually a bit more likely to attack a person or even raid a camp, than a griz. Can't remember for sure, it's been a while since I read it, but I think it is something like a 2-1 ratio.

Certainly not telling you what to do, and anyone is free to disagree, but I thought it prudent to add my comments, since this is a something that could affect someone in a serious way.

Glad you had no problems, and congrats on the trail.

[lori]

Try and think like a bear. They want as many calories as they can get with as little personal danger and effort as possible (just like a thru hiker). If you have the food with you they perceive that you own it and to get it they would have to take it from you. A dangerous proposition if you're a bear. On the other hand, if you hang your food, nobody has possession of it. From their perspective it's up for grabs. All they have to do is get at it.

I think hanging is an invitation for a bear to come and try. Which could be fun to video tape.

I used the bear can in areas where it was required by law, but I didn't see a single bear in any of those areas. The reason for that might be I tend to avoid commonly used campsites, which is also a well known strategy to avoid such an encounter with bears.

The history of why bear canisters are mandated in Yosemite and areas of Sequoia/Kings Canyon does not agree with you at all. Bears in those areas learned to love human food because that food was readily available to them due to people who did not store it properly. They developed a taste for the food, and so started to go after even properly hung bear bags - Yosemite bears became especially good at doing it, executing kamikaze dives from high branches onto food bags, sending cubs up to chew ropes, anything to get the "good stuff." Bears have started sneaking up behind people and snatching food while people are preparing it. The only injury in Yosemite due to a bear was due to people storing food inside a tent. Bears do not perceive ownership. They smell food they want, they go in after it. If they have not learned to appreciate human food, they are less likely to go after a properly hung bear bag, or a canister, with any real vigor.

[guySmiley]

Jimmy and Lori,

I was very hesitant to reply to the question honestly because I know how touchy people are on the subject.

I'm not a biologist. I'm not a bear expert. I'm just saying what I've done, and part of why I did it that way.

Not that it's an excuse if it's the wrong thing to do, but the truth is, most people on the PCT do the exact same thing. Maybe the only thing that this fool (me) from being pillaged by a bear was a late winter, keeping the bears in their dens as I passed through Yosemite.

Lori, what you say about the history of black bears in Yosemite is true but it's incomplete. Bears used to be hunted. That stopped and a major reason to fear humans was taken away from the bears.

I used the word "ownership" and you're right they don't perceive the transactional human nature of ownership. Possession would be a better word. If you're going to refuse to accept that a bear is capable of understanding that another creature is in possession of food and then making a ursine risk assessment on the wisdom of trying to take that food, well, we'll have to leave this subject with, I'm an idiot.

That may well be the case too, but the fact is, the only people that I heard of having bear problems were the ones hanging their food. Those were trail rumors though. I never met anyone who had more then a visit in their camp. I didn't hear of anyone whether they were hanging, used a bear can, or slept with their food having any real problems with bears.

Rodents on the other hand...

[Jimmy The Jet]

Guy - not touchy here...
I was only putting up my comments as an alternative opinion. You did what worked for you, and the reality is bear attacks are not that frequent anyway.

I guess my comments were meant to say that IF a bear came after your food, it is better to be some distance away, rather than between him and his Sunday dinner. Or part of it. Rather just lose some food, than my food, my hammock, and possibly a few chunks of me.
:)

[lori]

Not that it's an excuse if it's the wrong thing to do, but the truth is, most people on the PCT do the exact same thing. Maybe the only thing that this fool (me) from being pillaged by a bear was a late winter, keeping the bears in their dens as I passed through Yosemite.

Lori, what you say about the history of black bears in Yosemite is true but it's incomplete. Bears used to be hunted. That stopped and a major reason to fear humans was taken away from the bears.


You're not an idiot, and it's not a touchy subject for me at all. I'm trying to explain the same thing I explain to every noob who shows up in my hiking group saying the same thing you say... trying to get out of carrying the bear can on our hiking outings in Yosemite and excusing their storing food under a rock. I've heard people argue the point in the wilderness office in Yosemite with the rangers.

Bears used to be hunted, are still hunted in national forests, but since Yosemite became a park? Not there. It's one of our older national parks. It's been more than a century since bears were hunted there. It's hammered all year by tourists from all over the world, millions of people who don't have a thought about hiking or food storage. They used to feed bears on purpose, encourage people to walk up to them and hand them people food, as a tourist attraction. There's an old video on Youtube that shows this being done. Generations of bears learned to love people's food and now they will do anything to get it because of developing the taste for it. They teach their cubs to steal and because people don't take food storage seriously they are still succeeding. The rangers used to try relocating problem bears, to Sonora Pass, or Hetch Hetchy, or other more remote parts of the park - they stopped relocating because the bears made their way right back to where they knew there was an easy source of the food they wanted.

That you did not run into problems does nothing to disprove this - there are odds. Some people who go out don't get the bear visiting. Some do. It's hit and miss. It's hit more often than the rangers are comfortable with, and so they require the bear canisters for everyone. There were 18 incidents with bears in the wilderness this year. There were 174 in campgrounds, 135 in parking lots (they will break into cars to get a food wrapper because it smells like food), and 137 in "other areas" whatever that means. This makes sense; the vast majority of visitors are not backpacking in Yosemite.

The number of incidents is actually down by 68% since 1998. The real problem is not hikers and backpackers but campers. But the bears take the lessons learned from the campers and go inflict it on the hikers - I have heard of four incidents of a hiker putting down his backpack on a break and a bear darting out and dragging it off. Bears associate food with backpacks now. There is a note on the backpacker campground board that asks backpackers to store packs in the big bear lockers because the bears there will drag off the pack if it's empty - they associate it with food. You shouldn't store an empty ice chest in the back of a car visible - a bear looks at it and knows an ice chest is for containing food, and goes after it regardless of absence of odor.

I don't doubt PCTers don't always have problems. They are not in the parking lots and campgrounds where the majority of issues occur. But if you spend any time in Tuolumne Meadows campground, you'll probably see rangers chasing radio collared bears with a paintball gun trying to get the bears to stop patrolling the campground. We watched them do it the day before our week on the JMT last year, and again when we were camping there and dayhiking various trails this year.

I'm not chastising you - I'm letting you know what any of us who frequently visit Yosemite find out, from the rangers and from experience. The bears there want your food and will do anything to get it. Whether they show up in your campsite or not, they're showing up in someone's, somewhere. If people don't want to follow the rules in Yosemite, well, that's on them, if the bears don't visit there's a chance the ranger will, and the fees are pretty stiff. I store my food properly because I don't want the possibility of a bear being shot because I contributed to its food fetish (which they do periodically, sometimes a bear becomes too much of a nuisance).

There are some bears in Yosemite who are awake all winter because of the availability of food, by the way.

I have no problems with how you store food on the PCT - in areas other than Yosemite, I hang food and will continue to do so, if only because of raccoons and mice. Even some places in SEKI where they are having similar bear problems, we've not been nearly as careful as we try to be in Yosemite. Not all of SEKI requires the canister yet either. I am very lackadaisical about food storage on search and rescue operations despite all the warnings from rangers because we typically keep moving at night and take a nap during the day - bears don't bother us since we're not sitting still for very long. In some places the bears are still incredibly wild and run from you. It all depends.

There is a local wilderness area where bear incidents happen - the rangers will highly recommend canisters in Dinkey Wilderness. Hunting is permitted there.... but it's also hit pretty hard by backpackers and horse packers who are not hunters. Exposure to careless people is the main problem. The more people, the more likely a bear will investigate poorly stored food, the more issues you have.... I still hang my food in Dinkey without issues.

[guySmiley]

Bears used to be hunted, are still hunted in national forests, but since Yosemite became a park? Not there. It's one of our older national parks. It's been more than a century since bears were hunted there. It's hammered all year by tourists from all over the world, millions of people who don't have a thought about hiking or food storage. They used to feed bears on purpose, encourage people to walk up to them and hand them people food, as a tourist attraction. There's an old video on Youtube that shows this being done. Generations of bears learned to love people's food and now they will do anything to get it because of developing the taste for it. They teach their cubs to steal and because people don't take food storage seriously they are still succeeding. The rangers used to try relocating problem bears, to Sonora Pass, or Hetch Hetchy, or other more remote parts of the park - they stopped relocating because the bears made their way right back to where they knew there was an easy source of the food they wanted.

I kind of feel like this bolsters what I said about hunting.

I need to point out, and my fiancee would surely agree to this, for the record, I am kind of an idiot. :)

[Law Dawg (ret)]

On the PCT did you normally find two trees to hang from or did you sometimes use other attachment points. I'm looking to adding a rock anchoring device (or two) to open up more possible hang sites.

[Hooch]

Now that I've completed the PCT. . . ..Guy, what do you think of the practicality of hanging on a thru of the JMT?


I don't know which movie that you're speaking of. . . . Wizards of the PCT (http://www.wizardsofthepct.com/)

[guySmiley]

On the PCT did you normally find two trees to hang from or did you sometimes use other attachment points. I'm looking to adding a rock anchoring device (or two) to open up more possible hang sites.

Trees only.

[guySmiley]

Guy, what do you think of the practicality of hanging on a thru of the JMT?

Wizards of the PCT (http://www.wizardsofthepct.com/)

You could do it easily, but it would mean that you would have to camp below treeline every night. Most people do that anyway since that's where the nice established campsites are anyway. Camping above treeline can be great though, so my unasked for advice is bring a groundpad so you don't limit your options.

You could run into problems getting down below treeline if you try to do something like do 2 passes in one day. It seems like most people want to maximize their time there rather then complete it quickly so that probably wouldn't be a problem.

[lori]

I kind of feel like this bolsters what I said about hunting.

I need to point out, and my fiancee would surely agree to this, for the record, I am kind of an idiot. :)

I kind of feel like the whole reason we have problems there is because of the millions of people who leave food around combined with the encouragement of feeding bears in the early 1900s. Bears teach their cubs well.

The problem in Dinkey is not due to a hunting ban... it's people going out there in droves. Not the same size droves as in Yosemite, so not the same sized problem yet, but it's a gorgeous area, and attracting more people all the time. And people still hunt in that area. So I'm observing a correlation of the number of careless food storage incidents more than with the hunting ban. There is a definite correlation in Sequoia/Kings with foot traffic and bear problems - the bears in Rae Lakes, the most trafficked area of Kings Canyon, have been breaking into Bear Vaults. There are bear issues in Dusy/Palisades and Rock Creek as well - three very heavily used areas. Less used areas, you can hike miles and never see a bear. Places like Jennie Lakes (where hunting is also allowed) get hammered by hikers/backpackers quite a lot due to not needing permits and so forth. Something broke into a friend's truck in trailhead parking and ate the food, leaving the gear and other items that were under his hardtop....

You are entitled to your opinion, however. I'm just continually observing what's going on in my own backyard, here.

Your wife must think you are a lovable idiot just the same, tho. :)

[Redwood Guy]

There has been discussion as of late about PCT hammock thru-hikers on the PCT-L mailing list. http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

I have been considering doing it in 2011, but like many others, I have concluded that for pure peace of mind regardless of where I am at, a very UL tent is the better way to go.

At this point I am planning on using the TarpTent Moment, but the Echo 1 by hyperlightmountaingear is really drawing me in. I live the idea of a fully mesh enclosure if that is all one needs - something no TarpTent seems to offer, nor does TarpTent off any Cuben Fiber, nor do they plan to for a number of years, according to the owner. The Echo 1 is listed at "1.48 lbs (23.7 oz) with guy lines" which is just a couple of tenths more than my TarpTent.

But anyway, yeah, I have heard on PCT-L that at least two people have done the PCT in the last few years with a hammock.

[guySmiley]

There has been discussion as of late about PCT hammock thru-hikers on the PCT-L mailing list. http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

I have been considering doing it in 2011, but like many others, I have concluded that for pure peace of mind regardless of where I am at, a very UL tent is the better way to go.

At this point I am planning on using the TarpTent Moment, but the Echo 1 by hyperlightmountaingear is really drawing me in. I live the idea of a fully mesh enclosure if that is all one needs - something no TarpTent seems to offer, nor does TarpTent off any Cuben Fiber, nor do they plan to for a number of years, according to the owner. The Echo 1 is listed at "1.48 lbs (23.7 oz) with guy lines" which is just a couple of tenths more than my TarpTent.

But anyway, yeah, I have heard on PCT-L that at least two people have done the PCT in the last few years with a hammock.

I have a TarpTent Moment. It's a great tent for what it is. Whoever told you that they're not fully enclosed gave you some bad info. I don't think TarpTent makes a model that isn't fully enclosed these days. Enough of tents, this is a hammock messageboard.

Your thinking is EXACTLY the track that I went down before going on my hike. That was before many battles lost with condensation in a single wall tent.

I'm not telling you what to do at all, don't take it that way, but I can tell you that by the time I finished the trail my opinion changed.

If I was going to do it again, I'd bring a hammock for the whole thing, along with a pad in case I wanted to sleep on the ground.

[Redwood Guy]

I guess I presented things incorrectly above.

What I meant was that it would be awesome if TT made a tent that was 100% bug netting for the walls. It would, in all effect, turn it into a quasi-double-wall tent, but it would be something I would really enjoy. In essence, a lighter-weight MSR Carbon Reflex 1.

So when did you do your thru-hike of the PCT ??

You mention that you would have just taken a hammock. Having done the PCT how many nights of the 140 days (give or take) do you think you would have not been able to setup a hammock?

And, what about gear storage. Do you feel you would have had any issues with your tent/gear storage at night, if you would not have had a tent/vestibule?

Thanks.



I have a TarpTent Moment. It's a great tent for what it is. Whoever told you that they're not fully enclosed gave you some bad info. I don't think TarpTent makes a model that isn't fully enclosed these days. Enough of tents, this is a hammock messageboard.

Your thinking is EXACTLY the track that I went down before going on my hike. That was before many battles lost with condensation in a single wall tent.

I'm not telling you what to do at all, don't take it that way, but I can tell you that by the time I finished the trail my opinion changed.

If I was going to do it again, I'd bring a hammock for the whole thing, along with a pad in case I wanted to sleep on the ground.

[guySmiley]

What I meant was that it would be awesome if TT made a tent that was 100% bug netting for the walls. It would, in all effect, turn it into a quasi-double-wall tent, but it would be something I would really enjoy. In essence, a lighter-weight MSR Carbon Reflex 1.

OK I see what you mean.


So when did you do your thru-hike of the PCT ??

Finished just this month.


You mention that you would have just taken a hammock. Having done the PCT how many nights of the 140 days (give or take) do you think you would have not been able to setup a hammock?

Fewer than 10.


And, what about gear storage. Do you feel you would have had any issues with your tent/gear storage at night, if you would not have had a tent/vestibule?

I think I was better off than with a tent. I met more than a few people that had rodent problems. Particularly in WA. With all my stuff either hanging off my hammock straps, or in the hammock with me, I didn't have those issues.

I've already PM'd you regarding this stuff but I just want it to be here in case someone else is searching for this kind of info. :)

[enyapjr]

guySmiley,

Thanks for sharing your insights so far, but...

More info & your thoughts, please, on the conditions you encountered on the PCT in regards to both hammock insulation and 'other' gear - I'm sure that would be greatly appreciated by those contemplating a PCT thru-hammock (with the usual caveat that conditions can vary greatly year to year!)...

My 'plan' at the moment (subject to change, of course! :confused:) - and please note that I'm a relatively 'warm' sleeper:
A WBBB double 1.0 (to save some ounces over my current HH ULBA with 2QZQ #2 zipper mod) - converted to WS suspension...
A 3/4 UQ to save some more ounces (probably a 20* 3-season CrowsNest - currently only have a JRB 30* Nest) and a 'multiple-use' (lower leg or extra bottom insulation if needed, go to ground pad/insulation, & rest break sit/siesta pad - the latter being the most frequent & consistent usage! ;)) short Z-Rest...
A 30* WM sleeping bag for top insulation (and going to ground) - also have a 20* WM bag (last minute decision dependent upon the weather on which bag to start with - and then again later to finish with in WA)... 'Might' get a 20* TQ to save a few ounces instead of using the sleeping bag(s) - IF I can afford it when the time comes!! :unsure:
An OES MacCat Deluxe SpinnUL tarp (I use/carry trekking poles, so 'ground' set-up easily possible in the open/above treeline)... 'Might' also carry a GrizzBeak to close off one end of the tarp (? undecided; I'm doubtful that it's 'necessary', therefore save ounces once again)...

Any comments, thoughts, suggestions, or further input about hammocking on a PCT thru from anyone out there? :)
Thanks!

[sonic]

cool man,
congrats on your hike!!

I was planning to hike the pct 2010. long story short, didn't do it. so Im still obsessing over it. It will happen at some point.

I was hoping to hear this about hanging on the PCT, thanx for the report.
and again, congrats on hiking 2,650 miles. thats awesome!!!

now I think I will get a grand trunk nano.

hey, I got to be a trail angel. for slow and steady (from australia) and two other hikers. they were lost, and came up to my house, (I live a few miles from the PCT, just south of hiker town.) there water was yellow, I guess water was tough in socal. so I let them fill there bottles, and gave them a ride back to the trail. feels good to be a trail angel.
If I don't hike it next year, I might set up a little hiker hostel.

do you have an online journal? Id love to check it out.

[Redwood Guy]

hey, I got to be a trail angel. for slow and steady (from australia) and two other hikers. they were lost, and came up to my house, (I live a few miles from the PCT, just south of hiker town.) there water was yellow, I guess water was tough in socal. so I let them fill there bottles, and gave them a ride back to the trail. feels good to be a trail angel.
If I don't hike it next year, I might set up a little hiker hostel.

Good for you!!!

Without a doubt the folks out there helping supply trail love is a vital part to folks doing the first 1/4 of the PCT. That's where it seems the vast majority of people leave-the-trail (aka: give up) so the more folks out there passing some help along the better it will be for everybody!

If anybody is interested in the PCT you should consider joining the pct-l (http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l) mailing list. While it sometimes gets off on some weird topics, it is pretty much the place where most of the PCT'ers hang out at. There is no "one main website" for PCT'ers, like there is for us hammock folk here at HF.

[guySmiley]

I met Slow and Steady in SoCal just past the Mojave Dam. They were looking forward to meeting up with someone they knew with an RV who setting them up with food and showers.

Thanks for the congrats! I did keep a trailjournal. It's at http://postholer.com/swope if you're interested.

If you've got the time and urge to hike the PCT, do it! It's the hardest and best thing I've ever done.


cool man,
congrats on your hike!!

I was planning to hike the pct 2010. long story short, didn't do it. so Im still obsessing over it. It will happen at some point.

I was hoping to hear this about hanging on the PCT, thanx for the report.
and again, congrats on hiking 2,650 miles. thats awesome!!!

now I think I will get a grand trunk nano.

hey, I got to be a trail angel. for slow and steady (from australia) and two other hikers. they were lost, and came up to my house, (I live a few miles from the PCT, just south of hiker town.) there water was yellow, I guess water was tough in socal. so I let them fill there bottles, and gave them a ride back to the trail. feels good to be a trail angel.
If I don't hike it next year, I might set up a little hiker hostel.

do you have an online journal? Id love to check it out.

[hikelite]

Now that I've completed the PCT I'm going to answer my own question for anyone that may have the same kind of questions.

First off, BIG congrats! I'll be in the class of 2011, and plan to hammock. I'm fine sleeping on the ground when necessary. Heck, I slept on the ground twice during a recent trip to the Rockies, even though there were trees.


Without any doubts whatsoever, I will definitely be using a hammock on a future PCT thru-hike (or hikes? ;))...
The comfort & good nights sleep from hanging will be well worth the very slight weight 'penalty' for my total sleep/shelter system! :D

Here's a pct-l post (http://www.backcountry.net/arch/pct/0403/msg00694.html) from "Roni from Israel", who hammocked the PCT - good info for those contemplating using a hammock on the PCT...
A year before "Roni from Israel" a group of hangers was given the trailname "the Ewoks", from "Star Wars" movie for the ones that lived up in the trees ...
Hanging on the PCT has 'successfully' been done previously - so don't count it out during your planning!!

Roni was responding to my inquiry about how many nights he wasn't able to hang. This was in 2002, right? :)

How big do you think the weight penalty is?

I actually came to this area of the forums specifically to find this out. Then I found this thread and started reading it. ;)

Planning for this trip has be scrutinizing every piece of gear looking for places to shave off weight. When I start adding up weights for a hammock body, tarp, under-quilt, top-quilt, suspension, etc, it seems like it weighs more than many ultralight tents. I know comfort is the primary motivation for hanging, but on a thru hike, you can't ignore weight issues.

Anyone have an idea what an "ultra light" hammock system would weigh? (including tarp, suspension, any accessories, and the insulation, top and bottom)


I need to point out, and my fiancee would surely agree to this, for the record, I am kind of an idiot. :)

LOL, you're in good company. ;)

[Redwood Guy]

Planning for this trip has be scrutinizing every piece of gear looking for places to shave off weight. When I start adding up weights for a hammock body, tarp, under-quilt, top-quilt, suspension, etc, it seems like it weighs more than many ultralight tents. I know comfort is the primary motivation for hanging, but on a thru hike, you can't ignore weight issues.
Anyone have an idea what an "ultra light" hammock system would weigh? (including tarp, suspension, any accessories, and the insulation, top and bottom)

Hello,

I think many hammock people make the same mistake I did at first. I added up my entire hammock setup and than looked at how much it weighed verses my tent and went "uggggh" when the numbers were so far off.

Than I realized I was being an idiot and forgot to add in the (1) tent ground cloth, (2) sleeping pad, and (3) sleeping bag/quilt.

Than I realized it was unfair to compare them.

A hammock setup has:

(1) Hammock + suspension
(2) Tarp + suspension
(3) Bug/net (or built-into hammock, but still weight on the scale)
(4) Top quilt
(5) Bottom quilt

If you go with a WB Traveler, Bug Net, and Big Mamajamba you are looking at 38.0 oz (2.37 lb) [1,077.28 grams]. (you can go a bit lighter with a much more expensive CF tarp from Zpacks.Com)

Compare that to a TarpTent Moment at 28.5 oz (1.78 lb) [807.96 grams] or the ZPacks Hexamid Solo at 8.2 oz (0.51 lbs) [232 grams] plus a Therm-a-Rest Z Lite Mattress at 10 oz (0.62 lbs) [283.49 grams] and it is hard to understand why you would choose a hammock if you are wanting to save weight.

If you are to be fair and compare your sleeping bag (lets face it, almost everybody these days on the PCT is using the 'MontBell Super Spiral Down Hugger' which is a 15-f bag, so we have to compare that to a ~15 underquilt/topquilt for a hammock - if we are to be fair) to a TQ/UQ of comparative temps, you'd probably go with the HG Winter setup, which together tip the scales at 55.0 oz (3.43 lb) [1,559.22 grams]. The MB SSDH tips the scales at 38.4 oz (2.4 lbs) [1,088.62 grams].

So, comparatively sleeping on the ground verses sleeping in a hammock (in the perspective of keeping warm) is a savings of ~16 oz (one pound!!) - again, this is if you select equivalent sleeping temps, for the coldest parts of the PCT (SoCal, Sierras).


Anyway, I've spent the last few months doing the math and trying to decide. In the end, I guess it comes down to desire. Do I want the easy of a tent setup? Do I want the comfort of a hammock? Do I want the weight savings for cold weather areas that a tent offers? Do I want to spend a lot of money or a whole lot of money? Is my existing base pack weight at a point where 2 pounds is going to be more than I want to carry, or am I willing to take on an extra pound or two for 2500+ miles?

Remember also that you have options. You really do not need an underquilt and a topquilt.... even for the hellishly cold SoCal and Sierras! The other option is to sell them and buy better cloths. Head over to Nunatak (http://www.nunatakusa.com/) and find a jacket and pants that works for you, and do what we are suppose to do as thru-hikers... never carry something that only has a single use purpose! Why do we allow ourselves to lug around our heaviest gear in our pack that has a single purpose? Multi-purpose your gear... including your sleeping gear. Buy a jacket that can be used around camp in the morning and night AND in your hammock or tent. Forget that TQ/UQ or the sleeping bag. Buy warmer garments and multi-purpose them! You are saving a huge amount of weight and not lugging around a single-purpose item. The only things in your pack that should be single-purpose are your personal hygiene supplies (and even they can be used for multi-purpose such as starting a fire if you 100% must - which is usually regarded as a no-no on the PCT.). Your clothing is all layered-clothing so you take on/off as you need. Utilize them and rid yourself of as much single-use-items as you possibly can!


I have three spreadsheets made up at this point. One for my hammock setup, one for my tent setup, and one for my prototype/hybrid setup which is all custom made gear, garments and not quilts, and the lightest options of them all that I feel will keep me comfortable.

[hikelite]

Thanks for the thorough response Redwood Guy. :)

I'm not really debating whether or not to take a hammock. I'm bringing one, I'm just trying to determine what kind of goal I can set for weight. I'm not an ultra lighter, but a trip of this scale has me counting at grams. ;)

My old/current shelter system is a 1.9 oz ripstop hammock body, with the Ed Speer knotted ends, and a ~1.4oz Silnylon tarp. I actually have made a few tarps of varying dimensions, but I find I prefer the larger ones. I know I will be able to improve the weight of the hammock body a little bit by using 1.1 oz ripstop and improving my whipping. I built a gathered end hammock of 1.1 last night, and it worked well. I pulled the center a bit along with the ends. I really like the way it feels, but I want to experiment further. I'm not sold on the gathered end style. I think I will try the method Jacks R Better describes on his site tonight. First because I think it will leave less fabric wadded up at the end, so it will have a larger sleeping area for the same amount of fabric. Second because it will let me experiment with different amounts of center and edge pull. When I made my Speer style, knotted hammock, I know I retied that first one dozens of times to get the sides just right. I made several for friends using the same design, but after years of use, I've decided the sides are too tight. I really liked the difference pulling the center made too. It makes laying at an angle much easier, but the one I made last night isn't quite perfect. It's close, and I could comfortably spend the night in it, but I want to play with it more. The one I made last night is a little small too. I used up some fabric I had already been testing with, so it was a couple feet shorter than I want I think. I know I won't save a ton of weight on the hammock body, but I will save some.

I'm not sure how much I will be able to shave off the tarp without moving up to Cuben fiber. I have more silnylon though, so I'm going to go ahead and make another tarp, this time using a catenary cut design. That should lighten it up a little since I'll be removing material, but again, I don't expect a huge weight reduction. My only complaint with my old tarp is sag. It's a plain rectangular tarp. While it does pitch very tight, most mornings, it has stretched some. I'm hoping the cat cut will help. Unfortunately I know about Cuben fiber. Not only does it not stretch or sag, it's 50% lighter! Since I can't get any until next month though, I'm going to go ahead and make another silnylon tarp taking advantage of my improved sewing skills and designs.

I am updating the materials used in the suspension also, so I may save some weight there. I've been using this rather thick spectra cord to rig the hammock. This is climbing grade cord that I know is way stronger than I need. I have some Amsteel Blue 7/64 on the way though. I'm going to make a single line suspension using 2 descender rings and whoopie slings. I'll post pics once it's all built.

I'm also going to try my hand at making a top quilt for the PCT. I've never worked with down, so there will be a lot of learning involved with this part :P I'm not sure yet if I will make an under quilt. I just bought a NeoAir pad. I already hammock with a thermarest, so I am familiar with the pros and cons. I want the flexibility to sleep on the ground for whatever reason. What I think I will do is just carry 2 smallish pieces of CCF for my shoulders. These can be used to sit on while hiking and to kneel on when packing up in the mornings. I'm not sure I'll need an under quilt with this setup.

So anyway, that's my current plan. I still have a lot of gear to make, but I have 4+ months. I'll share pics as I make progress. It won't be the lightest setup, but I bet it will get close to the weight of a lightweight tent setup.

[Redwood Guy]

That's great to hear hikelite!!

At this point I have fully ditched (ok, myabe 95%, there is still a chance) taking a hammock. From a numbers perspective it just does not make sense, plus many other factors such as the many many many going-to-ground (GtG) issues, and as Steel-Eye said on the pct-l list this morning, "Another consideration when deciding to hammock or not to hammock is social.
Those who believe they may prefer to hike/camp with a group -- large or
small -- may have difficulty finding a hang-up when the group plops down and
says, “This is it for the day.”" I think most will agree that the 'community' of the PCT is strong, and if you do form those bonds, will this result in you having to change how you sleep and the related gear you carry?

All that said...

There are folks out there working very hard on building CF gear for hammock users. This includes seriously UL CF tarps and even CF hammocks. I have been testing two different cf hammocks over the last month and depending on the material, you can get either a really nice lay or a really ruff one. By going over to CF I have been able to *almost* get my Sleeping System down to a comparative ground system.

That said, it is going to be very very hard to get a cf hammock setup that will match the performance/weight ratio of my HMG Echo 1.

Do not forget in all of your custom building to factor in a bug-net. You 100% do not want to sleep on the PCT without a bug-net.


I totally know and understand the PCT can be done with a hammock setup that is designed to have the GtG capability. I would be wiling to give it a shot, but not my first time through. To many other factors involved in a first major thru-hike for me to have to worry about tree selection every single day for 150 odd days straight. Maybe if I had more experience with the PCT I would give it a go without thought, but not my first time.

Would love to see how you work things out on your end!

[KerMegan]

I think the justification of 7 oz for a nano as backup could be easily rationalized-(it is less weight than 1 cup of water...),with a head bugnet? and just multi-use a couple of amsteel whoopies on your tarp, and you are golden...
KM (who is just thinking out loud, much to the misfortune of those around her..) not that I am planning to do the PCT in this lifetime, but logistics are always interesting.

[wisenber]

This does not directly correlate to the thread, but the term "comfort" is being used as the only reason to use a hammock. To me the "comfort" of a hammock is not much of a luxury. That comfort creates a better quality of sleep. When I get better quality sleep, I need less of it. The comfort of a hammock also allows me to rejuvenate better than on a pad on the ground. If I am getting better quality sleep and more recovery during that sleep, using a hammock can make one more efficient.

For me, not dealing with a stiff back from sleeping on the ground or reducing the swelling in my feet by elevating one end means I can hike more hours and miles per day. The lack of quality sleep and recovery is cumulative....meaning more zero days.

So the question of weight is an incomplete question. Does a piece of gum weigh less than an apple? Yes. Does a piece of gum offer as many nutrients as an apple?.... Not so much.

The value of the weight is also relative. How much would a piece of warm apple pie with ice cream be worth in between resupplies versus at the end of a work week? Now ask yourself if you would have been willing to carry the weight of a cup of water each day in exchange for a more restorative night's sleep.

If using a hammock is just about grams to you, you may very well be missing the bigger picture. Asking how much weight is a restorative night's sleep worth is an abstract question without fixed values to plug into an equation and quantify.

[hikelite]

Redwood Guy, I was going to make the same point as wisenber.

I'm not trying to make my hammock based sleep/shelter system as light as a strictly ground based system. Obviously the additional materials for the hammock body and suspension will make it weight more. I'm just looking for a target to aim for in terms of weight. My requirements for the shelter system are a comfortable hammock (ie large), the option to sleep on the ground when needed or desired, a large coverage tarp to wait out storms, and as light as possible given the previous requirements.

I already know my shelter will weigh more than many ultra light folks. This hike has got me counting grams, but I'm also not willing to forgo functionality just to shave off a small amount of weight. For example, I like big tarps. I could make them lighter if I went with a more minimalist coverage, but I'd rather use better materials to get the same functionality with lighter weight.

I'll be placing an order for some CF this week, so we'll see how light I can get the tarp!

I'm still debating how I want to solve the bug issue. I don't want to be forced into my hammock to escape them, but I'm not sure I'll be happy enough just using my bug net hat. I'm still leaning towards some netting walls, but I'm not sure yet how I will attach them to a CF tarp. I have an idea that should work though. Just need to get all the materials here to try it :)

[wisenber]

Hikelite, treating your hammock and a set of clothing with permethrin will quell most of your bug issues. That will just leave your head and hands to worry about. I've been in a treated hammock and watched flying critters hoover then leave. The same is true for my sets of clothing that I have treated. If you have a really dense black fly time, you'll still need some form of net (I treat my net also.) I just use a piece of 108"X60" noseeum netting with three small pockets on each side. The pockets are for ballast to hold the net down. I think it weighs in somewhere South of 6 ounces without the ballast. It also serves as a bit of extra insulation as the noseeum netting does reduce airflow. It an also be used as a drying bag to put wet clothing on the outside of your pack to air dry. Once/if you find there is no further need for it, mail it back.

[hikelite]

I have a bug net like you describe. I've used it in the Sierras in July. It was too hot.

I'm trying to avoid being driven into the hammock. I made a tarp with little pieces of velcro sewn all around the perimeter. I then made some netting walls that attached to the tarp. I didn't use high quality netting (think netting from JoAnn's), so it's a bit bulky and a little heavier than I like. I don't want to sew the velcro to the CF tarp, but I think I came up with an even better solution! I have some "real" noseeum netting already, but I may not have enough on hand. I want to get the CF and build the tarp first.

I have used the permethrin treatment on my clothing. It works well! I haven't done a treatment for a couple years though. I have been just spraying the deet onto my hiking shirt and a bandana I wear around my neck. I still have to smell the Deet, but at least I minimize the amount on my skin. Since I'm not sure what areas I'll hit mossies though, it would be hard to retreat along the trail. I know Yosemite will be bad, but the rest of the trail may or may not be. I'll probably just maintain a supply of Deet in my pack and use as needed. I just hate eating lunch with a bug net on my head. If you've never tried it, a tarp with screen walls is wonderful when the air is black with the evilness. :P

[wisenber]

I have a bug net like you describe. I've used it in the Sierras in July. It was too hot.

I'm trying to avoid being driven into the hammock. I made a tarp with little pieces of velcro sewn all around the perimeter. I then made some netting walls that attached to the tarp. I didn't use high quality netting (think netting from JoAnn's), so it's a bit bulky and a little heavier than I like. I don't want to sew the velcro to the CF tarp, but I think I came up with an even better solution! I have some "real" noseeum netting already, but I may not have enough on hand. I want to get the CF and build the tarp first.

I have used the permethrin treatment on my clothing. It works well! I haven't done a treatment for a couple years though. I have been just spraying the deet onto my hiking shirt and a bandana I wear around my neck. I still have to smell the Deet, but at least I minimize the amount on my skin. Since I'm not sure what areas I'll hit mossies though, it would be hard to retreat along the trail. I know Yosemite will be bad, but the rest of the trail may or may not be. I'll probably just maintain a supply of Deet in my pack and use as needed. I just hate eating lunch with a bug net on my head. If you've never tried it, a tarp with screen walls is wonderful when the air is black with the evilness. :P

Best to avoid DEET on synthetics as it can break the fiber down pretty quickly. That's where permethrin comes in. If you get the Sawyers Permethrin, the treatments last up to 6 weeks even with laundering. The cheaper stuff is only good for a couple of weeks.

If you want to avoid eating with the bugnet over your head, I've had good luck with a Tilley Hat with Insect Shield (http://www.tilley.com/LTM6IS-AIRFLO-Hat-with-Insect-Shield.aspx). It's a pretty good hat, and after the first year, just retreat with permethrin every couple of months. I've seen yellow jackets approach me then veer off once within range of the permethrin. I prefer to treat my clothes over treating my skin. If I want to wear shorts or short sleeves (or visit a pervasive tick population), I'll augment with DEET.

[Caribou Bentspoke]

I don't see a big weight gain, looking over my gear from ground to hammock. My BB1.1 and Edge tarp compress slightly smaller than my Contrail tent, the Hammock and tarp weigh 9 ounces more than the Contrail. Swap the Edge for the Micro, and add the tyvek ground cloth to the Contrail, and the gap is just about gone. Plus in the hammock I don't need a pillow case to hold clothes.
So if the UQ is really where the difference is, then I can debunk that too,...a 13 ounce down UQ is lighter and packs smaller than any pad I would use on the ground.
I can see how how needing to pack for two different scenarios would add weight, but hammock camping only should add little in my noob mind.
On motorcycle trips using a tent I use a 4# 25""X72" sleeping pad that takes up more room than a Hammock,Tarp, UQ, sleeping bag combined. Glad I will not need to do that anymore.

[hikelite]

I don't see a big weight gain, looking over my gear from ground to hammock. My BB1.1 and Edge tarp compress slightly smaller than my Contrail tent, the Hammock and tarp weigh 9 ounces more than the Contrail. Swap the Edge for the Micro, and add the tyvek ground cloth to the Contrail, and the gap is just about gone. Plus in the hammock I don't need a pillow case to hold clothes.
So if the UQ is really where the difference is, then I can debunk that too,...a 13 ounce down UQ is lighter and packs smaller than any pad I would use on the ground.
I can see how how needing to pack for two different scenarios would add weight, but hammock camping only should add little in my noob mind.
On motorcycle trips using a tent I use a 4# 25""X72" sleeping pad that takes up more room than a Hammock,Tarp, UQ, sleeping bag combined. Glad I will not need to do that anymore.

I'm still working out what I will take on the PCT. I know I need to be able to sleep on the ground if necessary. I'm not sure I want to commit to needing to find a place to hang every night. At least not in socal. I've always used a pad in my hammocks, so I don't even own an UQ right now. I bought a NeoAir during the after Thanksgiving sales, so I feel compelled to take it with me. ;)

I've tried it in the new hammock I recently made. It works, but I've discovered that the material it's made of is much "stickier" than my old Thermarest or CCF pads. It may turn out to be a good thing as it won't shift during the night, but it's also difficult to get it in a good diagonal position when I get in the hammock. I'm anticipating that practice will resolve that, but so far I haven't figured out the best way to keep it in the right spot while I climb in. :P

I considered making the hammock double layer, but I'm trying to keep the weight down. I really like how lightweight and small the single layer 1.1 hammock body it. It's much lighter than the old 1.9 oz hammock, but it's also bigger. The bigger hammock seems to be more comfortable to me. I'm giving some consideration to making one from Cuben fiber. I don't know of any other material lighter than 1.1 oz ripstop that will hold the weight. I'm already making a tarp from the material, so maybe I should just order some lighter stuff for a hammock too. I'll have to ponder that one for a few days.

If I do acquire an UQ, I may just send the NeoAir home when I reach KM. It should be easy enough to find trees once I reach the Sierras. Maybe I'll keep it until Tuolumne in case I want to sleep above treeline in the High Sierra to setup for a pass or something. I guess I'm just having trouble giving up the flexibility of sleeping on the ground if I want to. I've also considered giving up the hammock altogether (I know sacrilege here! hehe). That NeoAir pad is pretty **** comfortable, but then I lose the advantage of easier site selection. Too many times I've had to hike extra miles to find a good flat spot when hiking with ground sleepers.

Well this turned into a long rambling post! Sorry about that. Too many PCT thoughts flying around the brain these days. :P

[hikelite]

91 days to my hike! :scared:

Cuben fiber for the new tarp is en route. I have a good design I think should work well. Not going to try and get an UQ built for the trip. I'll use the NeoAir. I am planning to make a TQ for the trip. I have that design all sketched out. The Cuben wiped out the fabric fund for another couple paychecks, so that project will be a few more weeks. ;)

Not sure the point of this post. I'm just getting excited. It's soooo close now :boggle:

Anyone else here thru hiking the PCT this year?

I know Redwood Guy is. Thanks for Yogi's guide btw. I had a hard time putting it down last night and going to bed. ;) (that was you right?)

Only 2 of us hammockers hiking the PCT this season?

[Law Dawg (ret)]

Only 2 of us hammockers hiking the PCT this season?

I'm not trying to rain on your parade but have you checked out the snow pack reports for this year? We have had some exceptional weather events thus far and I wonder how long it will take for the snow pack to melt.

[hikelite]

I'm not trying to rain on your parade but have you checked out the snow pack reports for this year? We have had some exceptional weather events thus far and I wonder how long it will take for the snow pack to melt.

I sure have been watching! I'm optimistic though. Here is why...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jan/07/why-so-much-rain-during-la-nina/?sciquest

So far, their theory is holding. Southern Sierra is still at 245% though! :scared:
I know it's not really good for CA, but I hope we have a nice dry and warm Spring. :laugh:

So only me and Redwood Guy are hammocking the PCT this season? Actually I don't think he is using a hammock, blasphemy! :lol: j/k John

[hikelite]

One step closer! I requested my leave yesterday. It went pretty well. I didn't expect an answer immediately. My boss asked for a week to decide, but he was pretty supportive, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm going either way, but wow it would be amazing to have my job waiting for me when I get back! :D

[guySmiley]

From previous posts, it sounds like you've got the big stuff sorted out gearwise.

When I was hiking last year, I frequently pondered on the number of repeat offenders on the PCT. Now that I've been off for a few months, I understand it. Hot/wet/cold/thirsty/sore/blistered is so much easier and pleasant than bored in front of a computer!

Baby that Neoair! Especially in the desert. Everything there wants to pop inflatable pads.

Don't worry about the snow either. Snow makes some things harder but it makes others easier. It's all a trade off.

When's your start date? I have loose plans that could easily fall through to make it to ADZPCTKO. I hope things come together for it...


One step closer! I requested my leave yesterday. It went pretty well. I didn't expect an answer immediately. My boss asked for a week to decide, but he was pretty supportive, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm going either way, but wow it would be amazing to have my job waiting for me when I get back! :D

[hikelite]

From previous posts, it sounds like you've got the big stuff sorted out gearwise.

When I was hiking last year, I frequently pondered on the number of repeat offenders on the PCT. Now that I've been off for a few months, I understand it. Hot/wet/cold/thirsty/sore/blistered is so much easier and pleasant than bored in front of a computer!

Baby that Neoair! Especially in the desert. Everything there wants to pop inflatable pads.

Don't worry about the snow either. Snow makes some things harder but it makes others easier. It's all a trade off.

When's your start date? I have loose plans that could easily fall through to make it to ADZPCTKO. I hope things come together for it...

My start date is April 20. It will be my 40th birthday. Happy birthday to me! :laugh:

I've used other ThermaRests for years and haven't popped one yet. (I realize I just guaranteed to pop this one now) :p I'll be carrying a patch kit. It will only come out to sleep on at night. I use a Tyvek ground cloth and it seems to provide pretty strong protection. If I sleep on the ground, I'm also good about checking the spot for things that could poke me or my pad.

Hopefully I'll see you at the KO. I'm hoping I can arrange a ride back from Scissors Crossing or Warner Springs. I'm not sure where I'll be though. I'm not in a hurry and am determined not to put in huge days at the beginning! I hear too many stories about people hurting themselves trying to hike too far too early. What's the hurry?

My current estimate has me hitting Scissors on Wednesday, so either I miss KO or get off trail early from Scissors. I'm planning 4+ days to get to Mt Laguna! :shades: The fourth day puts me there on Sunday, but my plan is to stealth camp just outside town Sunday night, so 4 days of hiking. Monday morning, I'll grab a resupply in Mt Laguna. Even if I cover the 33 miles to Scissors in 2 days, that puts me there on Wednesday. It's ~35 more miles to Warner Springs, so I'm not sure if want to push to make it there by Friday. I'm gonna send my box to the store in Mt Laguna, so I can pick it up on Sunday. Maybe I can push and make it to Warner sooner, but again, I want to take it easy.

I know plans go out the window on day 2, so most likely I'll find myself hiking further and faster than I expect. In that case I should reach Warner Springs on 4/28. That's 8 days for ~110 miles. I was hoping to average closer to 10 MPD at the start, but 14 might not be too bad if I know I'm taking a couple days off.

If you're planning to have a car, want to pick up some hiker trash at Warner Springs? ;)

hmmm had type this earlier then got busy. Just looked at my maps and realized I should be at Warner Springs on Thursday pretty easily. I'm still at work, so I'll have to look closer when I get home. I suspect it will not be hard to get a ride back to KO from Warner Springs.

See you there I hope! 78 days to go! :boggle::scared:

[guySmiley]

That's the same date I started! I'll be sitting in my cubical, at work, quite jealous of you!

If I'm around with a car, I'll be giving rides for sure. Hitching a ride from Warner Springs should be really easy.

4 days to Mt. Laguna is quite reasonable. I did it in 2, mainly because I'm kind of an idiot, and just kind of chose to go all the way to Lake Morena the first day, and then the next I got caught in a snowstorm and had to keep moving to stay warm the next day.

I only had about 40 miles of hiking under my belt when I started too, and didn't really know how I like to hike. It's one of those things that you only figure out by doing it.


My start date is April 20. It will be my 40th birthday. Happy birthday to me! :laugh:

I've used other ThermaRests for years and haven't popped one yet. (I realize I just guaranteed to pop this one now) :p I'll be carrying a patch kit. It will only come out to sleep on at night. I use a Tyvek ground cloth and it seems to provide pretty strong protection. If I sleep on the ground, I'm also good about checking the spot for things that could poke me or my pad.

Hopefully I'll see you at the KO. I'm hoping I can arrange a ride back from Scissors Crossing or Warner Springs. I'm not sure where I'll be though. I'm not in a hurry and am determined not to put in huge days at the beginning! I hear too many stories about people hurting themselves trying to hike too far too early. What's the hurry?

My current estimate has me hitting Scissors on Wednesday, so either I miss KO or get off trail early from Scissors. I'm planning 4+ days to get to Mt Laguna! :shades: The fourth day puts me there on Sunday, but my plan is to stealth camp just outside town Sunday night, so 4 days of hiking. Monday morning, I'll grab a resupply in Mt Laguna. Even if I cover the 33 miles to Scissors in 2 days, that puts me there on Wednesday. It's ~35 more miles to Warner Springs, so I'm not sure if want to push to make it there by Friday. I'm gonna send my box to the store in Mt Laguna, so I can pick it up on Sunday. Maybe I can push and make it to Warner sooner, but again, I want to take it easy.

I know plans go out the window on day 2, so most likely I'll find myself hiking further and faster than I expect. In that case I should reach Warner Springs on 4/28. That's 8 days for ~110 miles. I was hoping to average closer to 10 MPD at the start, but 14 might not be too bad if I know I'm taking a couple days off.

If you're planning to have a car, want to pick up some hiker trash at Warner Springs? ;)

hmmm had type this earlier then got busy. Just looked at my maps and realized I should be at Warner Springs on Thursday pretty easily. I'm still at work, so I'll have to look closer when I get home. I suspect it will not be hard to get a ride back to KO from Warner Springs.

See you there I hope! 78 days to go! :boggle::scared:

[hikelite]

That's the same date I started! I'll be sitting in my cubical, at work, quite jealous of you!

If I'm around with a car, I'll be giving rides for sure. Hitching a ride from Warner Springs should be really easy.

4 days to Mt. Laguna is quite reasonable. I did it in 2, mainly because I'm kind of an idiot, and just kind of chose to go all the way to Lake Morena the first day, and then the next I got caught in a snowstorm and had to keep moving to stay warm the next day.

I only had about 40 miles of hiking under my belt when I started too, and didn't really know how I like to hike. It's one of those things that you only figure out by doing it.

You started on 4/20 too? neat :)

When did you finish? How many zeros? OK, I'll stop before I ask too many questions LOL

Are you going to KO? If you will be in the area with a car, and don't mind, I'd love to get a ride from Warner Springs. I'm trying to force myself not to try and make it to Lake Morena on day 1. In fact, I'm almost certain I won't! I'm used to dry camps, so I don't mind carrying a ton of water. I'm planning a dry camp at Hauser Creek. If there's water, great, but it's ok if there isn't. I will be moving slow, but I think I can make Warner Springs in 8 days. That puts me there Thursday. Most likely, I'll stealth camp somewhere a mile or two away or something. Should I be looking for a ride on Thursday afternoon, or Friday morning? I've never been.

I have a little more experience than you did starting out ;) I have backpacked for 20 years now. Oh wait, did I just age myself? Oh I already said I'm starting on my 40th b-day hehe. I did a 10 week stint in Yosemite's backcountry in '95. I was already interested in the PCT, but that trip convinced me I had to do it. It's taken way way too long to finally do it, but this is the year! :lol:

[shybird]

hikelite, you are not the only one hammocking the pct this season... i just received and set up my first hammock (HH ultralite) and even though there seems to be more than ample evidence it's not ideal for the pct, at least in socal, i can't get over how comfortable it is! i'm pretty sold on it, but lingering doubts remain...

i very much would like to hear more about guysmiley's experience with it...

... the going to ground experiences interest me the most, but just more tips in general... i'm sure if i sit and think long enough, i could come up with more specific questions... the longest i've been backpacking is 10 days! so i'm reading up the best i can... so few folks recommend hammocking, i could REALLY use the emotional support of positive feedback about sleeping in the sky! C:

[hikelite]

hikelite, you are not the only one hammocking the pct this season... i just received and set up my first hammock (HH ultralite) and even though there seems to be more than ample evidence it's not ideal for the pct, at least in socal, i can't get over how comfortable it is! i'm pretty sold on it, but lingering doubts remain...

i very much would like to hear more about guysmiley's experience with it...

... the going to ground experiences interest me the most, but just more tips in general... i'm sure if i sit and think long enough, i could come up with more specific questions... the longest i've been backpacking is 10 days! so i'm reading up the best i can... so few folks recommend hammocking, i could REALLY use the emotional support of positive feedback about sleeping in the sky! C:

Are you thru hiking this year too? Awesome! When are you planning to start? I'm at 75 days. Yikes! :scared:

There have been others that hammocked the PCT. Ronnie from Israel comes to mind. He said he hung nearly every night, even in socal, but he said he had to hike further than he wanted sometimes to do it. That's why I'm planning to be flexible. I'm not using an underquilt. Instead, I'm carrying a NeoAir. It works great in the hammock and on the ground. On the ground, you just don't use the hammock. The tarp can still provide protection from precipitation though.

[shybird]

our start date is 16 april, with plans to hitch back to moreno for KO... so, 70 days to go. (whoa!)

i read ronnie's stuff awhile back, found him very encouraging... i've high plans to do major recon and report back for others who are interested...

i went ahead and got the supershelter for my Hennessy... increased my weight, but it's very warm, and i find i need the warmth in the back country... we were setting up (my friend is considering a Tarptent model, but she sleeps well just about anywhere) in the park a few days ago and a random dude came up to chat about the pct... his name was serpentslayer.... and he had a few rattlesnake stories, sans rattles... made me even more excited. C:

anyways, i glanced at the neoair and and still considering it... are you carrying a ground cloth for going to ground? HH suggested, as well as other hikers, using a tyvek sheet...

and what sort of tarp do you have? (hope you haven't already answered that!) i'm wondering if i should spring for more coverage than the stock Hennessy... when i began to consider hammocking, i had no idea the can of worms it has turned out to be!!

[hikelite]

our start date is 16 april, with plans to hitch back to moreno for KO... so, 70 days to go. (whoa!)

i read ronnie's stuff awhile back, found him very encouraging... i've high plans to do major recon and report back for others who are interested...

i went ahead and got the supershelter for my Hennessy... increased my weight, but it's very warm, and i find i need the warmth in the back country... we were setting up (my friend is considering a Tarptent model, but she sleeps well just about anywhere) in the park a few days ago and a random dude came up to chat about the pct... his name was serpentslayer.... and he had a few rattlesnake stories, sans rattles... made me even more excited. C:

anyways, i glanced at the neoair and and still considering it... are you carrying a ground cloth for going to ground? HH suggested, as well as other hikers, using a tyvek sheet...

and what sort of tarp do you have? (hope you haven't already answered that!) i'm wondering if i should spring for more coverage than the stock Hennessy... when i began to consider hammocking, i had no idea the can of worms it has turned out to be!!

You're starting a few days before me. I'll be leaving the southern terminus on 4/20. It just happens to be my birthday :)

I'm not familiar with Hennesy's Supershelter. I tried one of his hammocks many years ago, and did not like the sewn in bug net and entrance slit. I haven't looked at them again since. They are excellent products! They just aren't for me.

I'll be carrying a Cuben Fiber tarp I made myself. It's not built yet, but as of this weekend, I have all my materials. I have several tarps I have made out of Silnylon as well. I prefer larger tarps. I use a 10x12 tarp usually. I like the 12' ridgeline to cover the ends of the hammock. My new hammock, single layer 1.1oz ripstop nylon, is 12' of material. With the sag, it would probably fit under an 11' tarp easy enough, but I also like the large living area. I recently made a hex shaped tarp, with catenary cuts, out of some leftover silnylon I had. It would work fine, but I don't think I want a hex. I'm going to make it a rectangle with 4 tie outs on each side. I'm on the fence about whether or not I will use cat cuts. ;)

Yes, I carry a groundcloth. I use a piece of Tyvek as well. I got it very cheap on eBay. I also use a NeoAir. I've made some loops of grossgrain that hold 2 "wings" of CCF to keep my shoulders warm. This system provides the flexibility to sleep in the hammock or on the ground.

I just looked up the super shelter. It looks like it's an underquilt? I bet it keeps you warm, but it won't provide any padding if you sleep on the ground. I don't have an underquilt yet. If I did, I wouldn't rely on it until after KM. As Ronnie said, you can find trees in socal, but I want to be able to sleep on the ground. You could consider using a pad until you hit KM. Then switch to your super shelter. You should have trees available everyday once you hit the Sierra. The only place I would be on the ground after that would be above treeline. I like to sleep above treeline, but I don't think it's necessary. The only time there would be an advantage is if you wanted to be close to a pass for an early morning crossing. Most people recommend crossing later anyway.

I'm hoping to find a ride from Warner Springs to KO, so hopefully, I'll see you there!

[shybird]

on the 20th of april, we will sing you happy birthday, hikelite, wherever we are. C:

and we'll be hitching to the kickoff, possibly from idllywild, so yes- see you there!

[hikelite]

Thanks! ;)

My start date might change. I've been pretty adamant about starting on my birthday, but I might just start even earlier. Who knows, you might find me there on the 16th. I doubt I'll start later, but if I don't end up getting my leave at work, there's a strong chance I'll head to the trail sooner.

I'm soooo ready to start hiking!

[guySmiley]

Are you keeping an online journal, or planning on keeping one?

[hikelite]

Are you keeping an online journal, or planning on keeping one?

Me? Yes, mine is postholer.com/hayduke

55 days to go!

[PMSteve]

Just reading through this thread and had to add my 2 cent's worth.

Back in 1972 I solo-hiked the PCT from Donner Summit to Bishop, CA. I camped in a tent the whole time but there were almost always trees to hang from.

In fact, the only time I saw another hiker use a hammock was north of Mt. Whitney in an area where trees were fairly scarce. He had one end of his rope suspension attached to a tree and the other end to a rock outcropping by using a climber's chock nut on a wire cable. He had put a folded-up t-shirt through the cable loop as chafing gear to keep his hammock rope from fraying on the cable.

I thought it was a clever set-up. :cool:

[AT88]

. . .I didn't see a single bear . . . [t]he reason for that might be I tend to avoid commonly used campsites, which is also a well known strategy to avoid such an encounter with bears.

Amen

The hammock does give you a lot more options as far as camping sites. No longer must we search for level ground in over-used camp sites.

[Chop]

To you guys that did the PCT, how did it go this year?

How did the NeoAir fair in the hammock?