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njredneck
03-08-2014, 11:43
I'm going out to Lower forge on the 29th. This will be my last chance to get out until late May. I'm planning on getting to Batso around noon and heading up the batona trail to lower forge(7.3 mi).Then on Sunday heading to the beaver pond and then back to Batsto(9.8 mi).Any and all are welcome.

silentorpheus
03-08-2014, 13:05
I'll check with my schedule keeper. :cool:

Subscribed.

natureboy68
03-08-2014, 14:40
I keep hearing about beaver pond, where is it exactly??

silentorpheus
03-08-2014, 14:49
I keep hearing about beaver pond, where is it exactly??


If you take the Mullica River trail south from Atsion ranger station, it zigs and zags back and forth across quaker bridge road. About 2.7 miles down you'll pass Beaver Pond on your right. That's where the trail either keeps going south towards Mullica River camp, or you can cut over towards Quaker bridge. Check out the map photo:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/09/ynedu6yn.jpg

It's the body of water just to the right of the top corner of the map legend, right near where the yellow and purple trails meet.

Ratdog
03-08-2014, 15:32
Some pics can be found here:
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72290&highlight=Pine+barrens&page=5

If you want to take a look around, click here:
http://on.bubb.li/a97zspd9oelo6tb94/

natureboy68
03-08-2014, 19:11
Thanks guys!

SilvrSurfr
03-10-2014, 20:13
I'll keep my schedule clear, though I'd kinda like to do the longer hike going in, shorter hike leaving.

Deadphans
03-10-2014, 20:25
I may go out with ya. I am definitely going camping down there but not sure if I have the friends I invited coming along or not, they are not backpackers though, car camping makes them comfy. If they do not come I would be down for this but I would agree with silversurfr, I would prefer the shorter hike on the way out this way I have more time in the evening to get myself ready for work.

Either way I can't wait to get out there, been so busy with work and the move to the new apartment...ahhh I can't wait to breathe that fresh air. I already have some fruit dehydrated for the weekend! May make some beef jerky too.

Ratdog
03-10-2014, 20:59
You can park a car near Lower Forge for the car campers. Less than 1/2 mile from camp iirc. Someone can correct me.

SilvrSurfr
03-10-2014, 21:49
You can park a car near Lower Forge for the car campers. Less than 1/2 mile from camp iirc. Someone can correct me.

I thought you'd be the authority on sherpa-accessible camping, Ratdog!:)

Yes, I've seen a boatload of hunters in a parking lot just east of the turnoff to Lower Forge. I imagine they're coming from Carranza Rd, right on Tuckerton Road, right on Mines Spring Rd., right on Lower Forge Road and that eventually ends up at the parking lot near the turnoff to Lower Forge.

I wouldn't venture down there without four-wheel drive, especially in spring.

njredneck
03-11-2014, 13:37
I'll keep my schedule clear, though I'd kinda like to do the longer hike going in, shorter hike leaving.

I'll have the boys with me and we average 2-2.5 mph on the trail with many breaks. The short hike will take us 3-4 hrs. My thinking was to take it real easy on both days and let the boys really enjoy being on the trail and not make it a forced march to get to camp before it gets dark. The other option would be to paddle in. I have a canoe and a kayak would only need to figure out logistics of moving vehicles.

And as they say HYOH.:)

silentorpheus
03-11-2014, 16:27
I'll have the boys with me and we average 2-2.5 mph on the trail with many breaks. The short hike will take us 3-4 hrs. My thinking was to take it real easy on both days and let the boys really enjoy being on the trail and not make it a forced march to get to camp before it gets dark. The other option would be to paddle in. I have a canoe and a kayak would only need to figure out logistics of moving vehicles.

And as they say HYOH.:)

That's right, NJRedneck. Don't you let SS bully you into hiking at his speed. :laugh:

silentorpheus
03-11-2014, 16:27
Wow - just noticed that at some point I topped 1000 posts. Who knew I had that much to say?

SilvrSurfr
03-11-2014, 17:12
The other option would be to paddle in. I have a canoe and a kayak would only need to figure out logistics of moving vehicles.

I would really like to paddle in to Lower Forge one day.

Could you fit my canoe on your truck too? We could meet at Hampton Furnace, drop off boats/gear, then take your truck to Batsto Village and drive my car back to Hampton Road to start the paddle.

When we arrive at Batsto Village, we load canoes on your truck, drop me and canoe off with my car. Only question I have is where the heck would I leave my car around Hampton Furnace that's safe.

SilentOrpheus, would you be up for a paddle?

http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/exploration/todo/canoeing/

Ratdog
03-11-2014, 17:19
Ok, I'll fess up.
Yes I know about sherpa options at Lower forge.
I haven't used it in 30+ years, always go in by canoe or walk in.

I probably can help with shuttle. Will double check calendar. If I'm not up north, I can assist.

Do not leave a car at Hampton Furnace.

I can throw the racks in the truck and haul 1 canoe and 1 kayak up top and 1 canoe in the bed with the bed extender.

Will either drop you off or have a sherpa and driver follow me to drive my truck out.

When I checked Hampton last year or the year before, it was tight and overgrown up there.
Maybe we could touch base with the Rangers and see if we can clear a little bit of the waterway. Not sure if that is allowed but we could ask.

Ratdog
03-11-2014, 17:24
Logistics-wise, we could actually just drop everything at the put in, leave some folks to run some real world hammock tests, and then one car would have to make the run down to Batsto. Atsion might be open, they usually open around April 1, that would make things easier.

I can lean on Max to shuttle us in from the Ranger station and let him have the truck for the weekend. Unless he wants to come.

njredneck
03-11-2014, 17:33
I would really like to paddle in to Lower Forge one day.

Could you fit my canoe on your truck too? We could meet at Hampton Furnace, drop off boats/gear, then take your truck to Batsto Village and drive my car back to Hampton Road to start the paddle.


I can fit 2 canoes on top of the rack they have to overlap a little but they will fit.

njredneck
03-11-2014, 17:42
Paddle in means we will need a real menu and no need to scavenge fire wood.

SilvrSurfr
03-11-2014, 18:42
Paddle in means we will need a real menu and no need to scavenge fire wood.

Yeah, all this real food lately is making me wonder if my Pack-it Gourmet meals will expire before I eat them. Not complaining, just saying.:)

silentorpheus
03-11-2014, 20:54
Yeah, all this real food lately is making me wonder if my Pack-it Gourmet meals will expire before I eat them. Not complaining, just saying.:)

Can that stuff really 'expire'?

SilvrSurfr
03-11-2014, 22:59
Wow - just noticed that at some point I topped 1000 posts. Who knew I had that much to say?

Yeah, you're the strong, silent type, a real Quiet Man!

Aren't you supposed to start a giveaway thread in honor of your 1,000th post? Like maybe a firesteel or you can give away that alky stove I slaved for 15 minutes to make you.:rolleyes:

SilvrSurfr
03-11-2014, 23:07
Just a thought. I googled a trip report where a guy paddled upstream on the Batsto River. Might be a bit of a workout paddling Batsto to Lower Forge, but the trip back would be easy! Nice put-in on Batsto Lake and we could park the cars in the village parking lot.

Does that sound like too much exercise?

SilvrSurfr
03-11-2014, 23:12
Anybody know how bad Hampton Road is in the spring? I might have to leave my car up at Atsion and load the canoe on somebody else's vehicle if it's one of those Pine Barrens roads with three-feet deep mudholes!

The Chevy Cobalt 2009 is a fine car, but it's not a backroading Pine Barrens car.

SilvrSurfr
03-11-2014, 23:21
SilentOrpheus, did you wanna paddle in my Piney pirogue? I need someone upfront for ballast.

I might even let you paddle stern. You can't be any worse at steering than me!:laugh: I've been paddling for years and hardly know any strokes.

Ratdog
03-11-2014, 23:32
Anybody know how bad Hampton Road is in the spring? I might have to leave my car up at Atsion and load the canoe on somebody else's vehicle if it's one of those Pine Barrens roads with three-feet deep mudholes!

The Chevy Cobalt 2009 is a fine car, but it's not a backroading Pine Barrens car.

There is one section that can get pretty wet.
Right now it's fine.
Of course we are supposed to get a boatload of rain tomorrow.
Might go for a drive.

Ratdog
03-11-2014, 23:48
Here is a google map with way points for Hampton Furnace put in, Jersey Central RailRoad and Lower Forge. Also Quaker Bridge and Batsto.

Hampton Furnace to Batsto is 7-10 hours roughly.
Lower Forge is about 2-3 hours from Hampton Furnace?

Upstream from Batsto might be a bit much. Doable but not as fun as floating down stream.

http://www.mickscanoerental.com/map.html

http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/exploration/todo/canoeing/

HF to QB
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=141166

Lower Forge is between Hampton Furnace and Quaker Bridge

QB to Batsto
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=141278

P-47ChowHound
03-13-2014, 12:04
[

I'll have the boys with me and we average 2-2.5 mph on the trail with many breaks. The short hike will take us 3-4 hrs. My thinking was to take it real easy on both days and let the boys really enjoy being on the trail and not make it a forced march to get to camp before it gets dark. The other option would be to paddle in. I have a canoe and a kayak would only need to figure out logistics of moving vehicles.

And as they say HYOH.:)


I would really like to paddle in to Lower Forge one day.

Could you fit my canoe on your truck too? We could meet at Hampton Furnace, drop off boats/gear, then take your truck to Batsto Village and drive my car back to Hampton Road to start the paddle.

When we arrive at Batsto Village, we load canoes on your truck, drop me and canoe off with my car. Only question I have is where the heck would I leave my car around Hampton Furnace that's safe.

SilentOrpheus, would you be up for a paddle?

http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/exploration/todo/canoeing/


Ok, I'll fess up.
Yes I know about sherpa options at Lower forge.
I haven't used it in 30+ years, always go in by canoe or walk in.

I probably can help with shuttle. Will double check calendar. If I'm not up north, I can assist.

Do not leave a car at Hampton Furnace.

I can throw the racks in the truck and haul 1 canoe and 1 kayak up top and 1 canoe in the bed with the bed extender.

Will either drop you off or have a sherpa and driver follow me to drive my truck out.

When I checked Hampton last year or the year before, it was tight and overgrown up there.
Maybe we could touch base with the Rangers and see if we can clear a little bit of the waterway. Not sure if that is allowed but we could ask.

I have watched this thread with great excitement trying to fig how I could fit in.
However gentleman you have left out one huge logistical issue.
Having first hand experience let me give you the math.

(HLJ X mh or mp *cc-btuE+mf) X 2 fob = 4S, or LT, or XC -- JFF
"
"
"
"
"
"
"
"
"
"


(Hollow Leg Joe X miles hiked or miles paddled * calories consumes - btu's Expended + more food) X 2 for other brother = 4Sherpas,or Large Truck or eXtra Canoe -- Just For Food!! :D

njredneck
03-13-2014, 12:40
[






I have watched this thread with great excitement trying to fig how I could fit in.
However gentleman you have left out one huge logistical issue.
Having first hand experience let me give you the math.

(HLJ X mh or mp *cc-btuE+mf) X 2 fob = 4S, or LT, or XC -- JFF
"
"
"
"
"
"
"
"
"
"


(Hollow Leg Joe X miles hiked or miles paddled * calories consumes - btu's Expended + more food) X 2 for other brother = 4Sherpas,or Large Truck or eXtra Canoe -- Just For Food!! :D

My oldest son told me his girlfriend's birthday is the 29th and that he would rather hangout with her than go camping. So I'm down to myself and HLJ so therefore if we pack light I think I have just enough room for food.:D

Speaking of food. Are there any suggestions for a menu? I could grab some bacon wrapped filets.:drool:

silentorpheus
03-13-2014, 12:57
My oldest son told me his girlfriend's birthday is the 29th and that he would rather hangout with her than go camping. So I'm down to myself and HLJ so therefore if we pack light I think I have just enough room for food.:D



Speaking of food. Are there any suggestions for a menu? I could grab some bacon wrapped filets.:drool:


Ditching for the girl again, eh? :)

I'm still not certain I can come - currently on a plane to CO, leaving the wife alone for the weekend. Not sure how keen she'll be about yet another weekend this month. So I'll stay out of the menu discussion until I have a better idea of availability.

SilvrSurfr
03-13-2014, 15:25
I guess menu depends on mode of transportation and how many occupants in my canoe. I can fit three (counting me), but if I don't get at least one volunteer, I'll just hike in and do Pack-It Gourmet. My canoe is a wee bit too large for solo (1500 lb. capacity).

I take it none of us have paddled this section in the last decade?

njredneck
03-13-2014, 16:03
I guess menu depends on mode of transportation and how many occupants in my canoe. I can fit three (counting me), but if I don't get at least one volunteer, I'll just hike in and do Pack-It Gourmet. My canoe is a wee bit too large for solo (1500 lb. capacity).

I take it none of us have paddled this section in the last decade?

I guess we need to see who is actually going. Worst case I can put HLG in the kayak and we can man a canoe(yours or mine). I haven't done either river. Another suggestion is to do Mullica river. Atsion to Mullica river camp to Batsto. This way we would not have worry about where to park a car.

Ratdog
03-13-2014, 16:09
At this point, I'm still only a definite maybe.

When I checked out Hampton Furnace a year or 2 back, it was pretty overgrown and low water levels. I expect the water levels are much improved. Don't know how overgrown.

It was easier to put in near the railroad a little ways down the river, but Hampton Furnace is very easy to get to by car....so it's a tradeoff.

I'm slammed at work but if I can get over this hump today, I'll take a quick run down there tomorrow. Need to get outside and away from this screen.

SilvrSurfr
03-13-2014, 16:42
I guess we need to see who is actually going. Worst case I can put HLG in the kayak and we can man a canoe(yours or mine). I haven't done either river. Another suggestion is to do Mullica river. Atsion to Mullica river camp to Batsto. This way we would not have worry about where to park a car.

Yeah, we'll wait a bit. I do like the idea of the Batsto better; not as much river traffic. If it's a nice day, the day trippers may be out in force on the Mullica. And we haven't visited Lower Forge in a while, and it's usually less crowded with campers.:)

P-47ChowHound
03-13-2014, 17:46
I guess menu depends on mode of transportation and how many occupants in my canoe. I can fit three (counting me), but if I don't get at least one volunteer, I'll just hike in and do Pack-It Gourmet. My canoe is a wee bit too large for solo (1500 lb. capacity).

I take it none of us have paddled this section in the last decade?

I will take one of those seats. Can use my work van to haul canoe, if you want.
Thinking a Dutch Oven breakfast treat. Plus something for dinner.

SilvrSurfr
03-13-2014, 19:01
I will take one of those seats. Can use my work van to haul canoe, if you want.
Thinking a Dutch Oven breakfast treat. Plus something for dinner.

Anybody got an extra paddle? I only have two.

SilvrSurfr
03-13-2014, 23:26
Water levels look good on the Mullica River. Click on the Update Graph button to get the latest data:

http://river-depth.com/graphs/01409400?period=1

Can't seem to find info on Batsto River - very mysterious. The River That Nobody Cared About.:(

Ratdog
03-13-2014, 23:55
The nephew has soccer on Sunday down in Vineland, so he is out.

Bummed because this young man needs some time in the woods and he has his own hammock.

Ratdog
03-14-2014, 00:00
Water levels look good on the Mullica River. Click on the Update Graph button to get the latest data:

http://river-depth.com/graphs/01409400?period=1

Can't seem to find info on Batsto River - very mysterious. The River That Nobody Cared About.:(

McDonalds Branch flows the other way in the Pines, between that and the Mullica and the Wading at Jenkins, you get an idea of what's happening.

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/index.php?wfo=phi

SilvrSurfr
03-14-2014, 00:12
The more I google, the more I'm getting amped for this Hampton Furnace>Batsto Village paddle. Sounds totally awesome.

One thing I read said the Hampton Furnace>Quaker Bridge section of the Batsto River was one of the least paddled sections of the Pine Barrens.Two thumbs up!

I haven't been canoeing in the Pine Barrens in 20 years, but I'm expecting to get wet. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't we expect to have to get out of the canoe to occasionally maneuver around blowdowns and other obstacles? Is that a reasonable assumption?

Not sure how I should dress for these conditions.

Ratdog
03-14-2014, 07:56
The more I google, the more I'm getting amped for this Hampton Furnace>Batsto Village paddle. Sounds totally awesome.

One thing I read said the Hampton Furnace>Quaker Bridge section of the Batsto River was one of the least paddled sections of the Pine Barrens.Two thumbs up!

I haven't been canoeing in the Pine Barrens in 20 years, but I'm expecting to get wet. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't we expect to have to get out of the canoe to occasionally maneuver around blowdowns and other obstacles? Is that a reasonable assumption?

Not sure how I should dress for these conditions.

I'm going to say it's likely.
Piney's like it when you wear something' perty..http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3351722/banjo-o.gif (http://gifsoup.com/view/3351722/banjo.html)http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2549397/hillbilly-o.gif (http://gifsoup.com/view/2549397/hillbilly.html)

P-47ChowHound
03-14-2014, 08:34
[QUOTE=Ratdog;1220539]I'm going to say it's likely.
Piney's like it when you wear something' perty..


I am out of the canoe. :) Afraid of the pineys and being alone with SlvrSurf:D

SilvrSurfr
03-14-2014, 11:07
I am out of the canoe. :) Afraid of the pineys and being alone with SlvrSurf:D

Chowhound got a real perty mouth, ain't he?:)

P-47ChowHound
03-14-2014, 12:00
Chowhound got a real perty mouth, ain't he?:)

Now thats why I am getting all nervous. If you show up in "overalls" I'm fleeing!! I think I need to be in the back of the canoe!:)

Back to the trip! I am in and offer my services where ever needed. Drop off, pick up, shuttle, let me know as the planing progresses.

SilvrSurfr
03-14-2014, 13:00
Now thats why I am getting all nervous. If you show up in "overalls" I'm fleeing!! I think I need to be in the back of the canoe!:)

Back to the trip! I am in and offer my services where ever needed. Drop off, pick up, shuttle, let me know as the planing progresses.

They will be polyester overalls 'cause I don't want no hypothermia!

Ratdog
03-14-2014, 16:30
RECON COMPLETE
Hampton Furnace
Southbound on Rt 206, left hand turn before Atsion Ranger station.
(the road that goes into the woods before the guardrail on the left starts, not the one that goes back to the field near the Ranger Station)

The road is passable, no worries. A Nissan Maxima made the trip out there while I was out there with a truck. Couple holes holding water, you can drive the edge. The low section of the road is rutted up, water is high on either side but not over the road. During storms, this section floods and gets very muddy. Right now, it is easily driven.

The put in is sandy so watch where you park your 2 wheel drive vehicles.
There was a controlled burn to clear the fields for a particular bird that nests in the area. You can see their nesting boxes out in the field.

The water level is currently high enough to make it an easy paddle, no walking required right now. (during Summer low water times, that is a different story)

The part of the river I walked, a couple hundred yards, is about the width of a canoe, clear of debris, no overhangs to speak of, some tight little bends with branches or small trees down. No portages required. Further down, who knows. Probably can check with SJ Outdoor Club paddling reports.

Took a couple shots of the Hampton Furnace, the Batsto River, some slag leftover from the bog iron smelting and my afternoon siesta in the hammock.

The road in.
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t439/Ratdogman/2014-03-14143253-1.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14143253-1.jpg.html)

A bog on the way in.
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t439/Ratdogman/2014-03-14144025-1.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14144025-1.jpg.html)

Put in
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t439/Ratdogman/2014-03-14144715-1.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14144715-1.jpg.html)

Looking downstream at put in
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t439/Ratdogman/2014-03-14144726-1.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14144726-1.jpg.html)


Looking upstream at put in
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t439/Ratdogman/2014-03-14144757-1.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14144757-1.jpg.html)

The Hampton Furnace
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t439/Ratdogman/2014-03-14150405-1.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14150405-1.jpg.html)

Bog iron slag
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t439/Ratdogman/2014-03-14150732-1.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14150732-1.jpg.html)

Looking down river from the bridge next to the furnace
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t439/Ratdogman/2014-03-14150936-1.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14150936-1.jpg.html)

Short Video of the put in
http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14144858.mp4.html

Time to relax
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t439/Ratdogman/2014-03-14154501-1.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14154501-1.jpg.html)

Relaxing
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t439/Ratdogman/2014-03-14161505-1.jpg (http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/Ratdogman/media/2014-03-14161505-1.jpg.html)

SilvrSurfr
03-14-2014, 16:54
Pretty shallow up there, but I'm sure it gets deeper as it goes to Lower Forge.

Thanks for the recon!

Jshep420
03-14-2014, 18:15
How long does this trip take? Sounds great!

SilvrSurfr
03-14-2014, 18:19
How long does this trip take? Sounds great!

I doubt it's more than three hours from Hampton Road to Lower Forge. From Lower Forge to Batsto probably 4 to 5 hours.

Jshep420
03-14-2014, 18:21
Nice!!!! I wish it wasn't so far away. Maybe next time. This is my favorite thread!! U guys r cracking me up

P-47ChowHound
03-15-2014, 07:26
Nice!!!! I wish it wasn't so far away. Maybe next time. This is my favorite thread!! U guys r cracking me up

PLEASE JOIN US!!! As the newest member it will be your job to be SilvrSurfr's playmate and than you can have nitemares about "polyester overalls" :scared:

Ratdog
03-15-2014, 13:17
Interesting read regarding the ruins near the put in. Both the furnace and old paper mill ruins are near the put in.
http://www.njpinebarrens.com/atsion-part-2-prosperity-and-decline/

Also, it is possible to paddle upstream more than an hour from the put in just in case a little extra time on the water is desired.


“Everyone must believe in something.
I believe I’ll go canoeing”—Henry David Thoreau

SilvrSurfr
03-15-2014, 17:38
Interesting read regarding the ruins near the put in. Both the furnace and old paper mill ruins are near the put in.
http://www.njpinebarrens.com/atsion-part-2-prosperity-and-decline/

Also, it is possible to paddle upstream more than an hour from the put in just in case a little extra time on the water is desired.


“Everyone must believe in something.
I believe I’ll go canoeing”—Henry David Thoreau

Much more fun reading about Hampton Furnace than actually visiting it. I must admit I was seriously underwhelmed when I went. I hiked there with Kayak Karl and when we got there, I kinda felt like, "This is it? This is what we hiked to see?"

Ratdog
03-15-2014, 18:06
Yeah, it's academically interesting, history of Jersey Iron, iron used in the Revolutionary War, iron used for the water pipe system in Philadelphia, the transition to glass or paper and then the decline. Several towns/villages that housed 400+ people, now vanished, consumed by the Pine Barrens. Some interesting land disputes, explanations for some of the roads and canals. Have a few relatives that worked the furnace and my great grandfather worked the Jersey Central Railroad that ran right through the middle of the Pines.

Short of that, you could gather some bog iron from the river bottom, some slag of the 3-4 varieties out there, some "black glass" and that's about it.
Heck, add a little lime as flux and we could smelt a little bog iron at the next Batona Camp fire. Mini furnace out of a dozen fire bricks and it could be done. :D some info on iron furnace slag in the Pine Barrens (http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/the-slag-thread.4829/)

Still the Batsto is a nice quiet paddle. Enjoy the time away from the 'maddening crowd.'

SilvrSurfr
03-17-2014, 21:17
Nice!!!! I wish it wasn't so far away. Maybe next time. This is my favorite thread!! U guys r cracking me up

So far away? Don't you live in Jersey? This state is tiny; nothing is that far away!

Jshep420
03-17-2014, 21:21
Ur rite.i want to go. But I work till 3. Time is the issue. I wouldn't make it till 5 or 6. I'll will met up with u guys tho. Thanks

Ratdog
03-17-2014, 21:40
You can drive directly to the parking lot near Lower Forge and it's a short hike in.

Jshep420
03-17-2014, 21:41
How short?

Zilla
03-17-2014, 21:43
Arent the quates that are sold still at harrys army n navy made from this same iron?

SilvrSurfr
03-17-2014, 21:52
How short?

Half a mile, tops. Probably closer to 1/3 of a mile.

Jshep420
03-17-2014, 21:55
Half a mile, tops. Probably closer to 1/3 of a mile.

Ok cool. I can do that. I'll work on it and get back.

Ratdog
03-17-2014, 22:00
How short?

Less than a 1/2 mile if memory serves.

Plug these coordinates into googlemaps.com and you will see the roads and some pics with GPS coordinates.
39.725712 -74.673119

Ratdog
03-17-2014, 22:01
Arent the quates that are sold still at harrys army n navy made from this same iron?

Wouldn't that be cool if they are.

Jshep420
03-17-2014, 22:03
Less than a 1/2 mile if memory serves.

Plug these coordinates into googlemaps.com and you will see the roads and some pics with GPS coordinates.
39.725712 -74.673119

Ok. Will do. Thanks.!

SilvrSurfr
03-17-2014, 22:04
Ok cool. I can do that. I'll work on it and get back.

If there's a lot of rain then four-wheel drive is advised.

Jshep420
03-17-2014, 22:05
If there's a lot of rain then four-wheel drive is advised.

Perfect! 81917

SilvrSurfr
03-17-2014, 22:16
Perfect! 81917

And bring a long stick so you know how deep the puddle is before you drive into it!

Jshep420
03-18-2014, 19:48
I'm going out to Lower forge on the 29th. This will be my last chance to get out until late May. I'm planning on getting to Batso around noon and heading up the batona trail to lower forge(7.3 mi).Then on Sunday heading to the beaver pond and then back to Batsto(9.8 mi).Any and all are welcome.
I can't go to this one. Grampa's 90th bday!! Next time!

njredneck
03-18-2014, 19:52
Enjoy the party.

SilvrSurfr
03-19-2014, 16:21
I hope we can get who's paddling/who's coming nailed down soon.

So far committed to canoe:

njredneck
Hollow-Leg Joe
silvrsurfr
P47-Chowhound

Maybe:

SilentOrpheus (grow a pair!)
My son Shelf Life (5% chance he comes)

Sherpa maybe:

Ratdog

Sorry, Deadphans, you don't get a maybe. The smart money and past participation puts the Vegas betting line at 1000-1 that you'll show up!:lol: Those friends of yours seem a common excuse for you backing out of group hangs. Maybe you should get new friends!

All sites are unreserved right now. Should we go ahead and reserve site 4 & 5? Those seem sufficient for projected participants right now.

SilvrSurfr
03-19-2014, 16:24
Here's the recon thread on Lower Forge - sites 4-7 seem to be most hammock friendly.

https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?72290-NJ-Pine-Barrens-Which-New-Sites-Are-Suitable-for-Hanging&highlight=pine+barrens

I hope it rains soon. Water depth seems to be going down.


http://river-depth.com/graphs/01409400?period=1

njredneck
03-19-2014, 16:32
4 and 5 will work. I'll snag site 4 tonight for 2 people.

SilvrSurfr
03-19-2014, 18:00
I will do the same for site 5.

SilvrSurfr
03-19-2014, 22:35
Big rainstorm just went over NJ in the last few hours - I think we got a solid two inches here on the Jersey Shore, probably as much in the Pine Barrens. Hope it rains some more to keep Batsto River high!

SilvrSurfr
03-20-2014, 19:35
Reservation #2-4708125 for site 5.

njredneck
03-20-2014, 20:32
Reservation # 2-4697128 for site 4. looks like some more wet stuff Tuesday hopefully the water levels will be up.

SilvrSurfr
03-20-2014, 22:05
Reservation # 2-4697128 for site 4. looks like some more wet stuff Tuesday hopefully the water levels will be up.

Yesterday's rains definitely helped on the graph. A little more rain wouldn't hurt!

http://river-depth.com/graphs/01409400?period=1

Click on Update Graph to see latest data.

Here's another river depth site - looks like the same data but presented in different ways, like with historical data. Looks like the river was lower than the average mean for this date till that rain last night.

http://waterwatch.usgs.gov/index.php?r=nj&id=ww_current

P-47ChowHound
03-21-2014, 06:50
Being the newest inductee to, Garden State Hammock and Dinner Association of NJ, a few questions. 1. SilvrSurfr, am I in on your site or do I need to reserve one? Aint fond of sleeping in the canoe. 2. Have truck or van that can be used (not FWD) how can I help? 3. When do we start talking MENU :boggle:

SilvrSurfr
03-21-2014, 11:54
Being the newest inductee to, Garden State Hammock and Dinner Association of NJ, a few questions. 1. SilvrSurfr, am I in on your site or do I need to reserve one? Aint fond of sleeping in the canoe. 2. Have truck or van that can be used (not FWD) how can I help? 3. When do we start talking MENU :boggle:

It is highly unusual for a rank-and-file member to share the campsite of an officer of the GSHDANJ. However, we'll make an exception just this once.

As for menu, I'm leaning toward not too complicated. The upper reaches of the Batsto River may require dragging canoe over/around blowdowns so the lighter the better.

njredneck
03-21-2014, 13:25
I'm thinking bratwurst on rolls. easy to cook and no cleanup.:drool:

dingbat
03-21-2014, 19:37
Short of that, you could gather some bog iron from the river bottom, some slag of the 3-4 varieties out there, some "black glass" and that's about it.
Heck, add a little lime as flux and we could smelt a little bog iron at the next Batona Camp fire. Mini furnace out of a dozen fire bricks and it could be done. :D some info on iron furnace slag in the Pine Barrens (http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/the-slag-thread.4829/)



Great idea! I'd be happy to help hike in some bricks if it comes to fruition, providing I can make it down to Jersey when it happens.

Ratdog
03-21-2014, 22:24
Great idea! I'd be happy to help hike in some bricks if it comes to fruition, providing I can make it down to Jersey when it happens.

Batona Camp is car camping, unless you choose to hike in.
I would drive in the firebrick. Would need a bellows for cold blasting the bloom.

Cold snap next week.
Possible rain over next weekend.

Bail out option is Quaker Bridge.

Still working out if I can make it. Also working sherpa options just in case.

dingbat
03-22-2014, 09:37
Cold snap next week.
Possible rain over next weekend.

Bail out option is Quaker Bridge.

Still working out if I can make it. Also working sherpa options just in case.

I'm still one or two weeks out 'til the end of snow on the hill up in my world. I thought you might be alluding to doing it at some future date.

I will stay tuned.

silentorpheus
03-22-2014, 11:24
Alright, so I'm trying to work out the logistics of how to make this trip work.

At current, what is the plan for paddling on each day (from where to where), and approx. how long will it take?

The wife has something tentatively planned in the late afternoon on Sunday - so I may be able to get out for the night, but I may need to be back earlier than is logistically possible for the day 2 canoe trip.

Hit me with some details. Worst case I might just have to either hike in and out to meet you, or paddle in and hike out. All depends on the timeframe.

SilvrSurfr
03-22-2014, 16:06
Suggested Itinerary

Sat, 3/29 -

1) 10 or 11ish. Meet at Batsto Village, get permits. Transfer boats to njredneck's truck (or other vehicle). Leave cars at Batsto Village. Still need to figure out shuttle to get vehicle back to Batsto.
2) Paddle 3 to 4 hours from Hampton Furnace to Lower Forge. Relax.

Sunday, 3/30

1) Depart Lower Forge 10ish. Paddle 5.5 miles to Batsto Village. This section has much deeper water and it should be easy going. Probably a 3 to 4 hour trip.
2) Arrive Batsto Village - walk over to parking lot and get vehicles. Load boats on vehicles; get in vehicles and drive home.

For a more leisurely pace (and if njredneck & Hollow Leg Joe paddle as slow as they hike:lol:), you could say five hours of paddling each day with plenty of breaks (ya know, a cooler with frosty beverages and egg-salad sandwiches!). I'd be willing to start earlier on Sunday if somebody needs to get home to Momma, but I don't think we should rush a relaxing paddle on the Batsto.

While hiking in the Pine Barrens may be monotonous at times, I don't think paddling will be. We're gonna be seeing the Pine Barrens from a whole different perspective. Should be fun!

SilvrSurfr
03-22-2014, 18:29
Worst case for vehicle after dropping off at Hampton Furnace - I'll drive it to Atsion Ranger office and walk the three miles back to Hampton Furnace.

SilvrSurfr
03-22-2014, 19:05
Feeling better about water levels every day. On 2/07/14 the gage depth was 3.47 before dropping down to 1.5 two weeks ago. Last week rose to 1.77 after that rain, but the depth has continued to rise to 1.82. Not sure what is making it rise - is it raining in the Pine Barrens or is this snow melt? Or does it take a couple of days for the runoff to drain into the river? Who knows.

Let's hope this Tuesday storm bumps up the depth.

http://waterwatch.usgs.gov/index.php?r=nj&id=ww_current

SilvrSurfr
03-22-2014, 21:34
We're heading into the wild and untamed upper reaches of the Batsto River, so here's an appropriate theme song. Learn the lyrics, know the lyrics, be prepared to sing the lyrics.

_LBmUwi6mEo

http://www.metrolyrics.com/the-lion-sleeps-tonight-lyrics-token.html

njredneck
03-23-2014, 10:33
Suggested Itinerary

Sat, 3/29 -

1) 10 or 11ish. Meet at Batsto Village, get permits. Transfer boats to njredneck's truck (or other vehicle). Leave cars at Batsto Village. Still need to figure out shuttle to get vehicle back to Batsto.

2) Paddle 3 to 4 hours from Hampton Furnace to Lower Forge. Relax.

Sunday, 3/30

1) Depart Lower Forge 10ish. Paddle 5.5 miles to Batsto Village. This section has much deeper water and it should be easy going. Probably a 3 to 4 hour trip.
2) Arrive Batsto Village - walk over to parking lot and get vehicles. Load boats on vehicles; get in vehicles and drive home.

For a more leisurely pace (and if njredneck & Hollow Leg Joe paddle as slow as they hike:lol:), you could say five hours of paddling each day with plenty of breaks (ya know, a cooler with frosty beverages and egg-salad sandwiches!). I'd be willing to start earlier on Sunday if somebody needs to get home to Momma, but I don't think we should rush a relaxing paddle on the Batsto.

While hiking in the Pine Barrens may be monotonous at times, I don't think paddling will be. We're gonna be seeing the Pine Barrens from a whole different perspective. Should be fun!

May be better to drop boats and gear at hampton furnace first and then head to batsto and back. I'll be in closer to 11 have a scout function first thing Sat morning.
Never timed the paddle speed may be even slower.:lol:

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 13:10
Ok, I am good to go.
The nephews won't be there due to overlapping indoor/outdoor soccer games.
(Bummed about that but nothing to be done)

I have sherpa service available.

SilvrSurfr
03-23-2014, 16:09
I probably can help with shuttle. Will double check calendar. If I'm not up north, I can assist.

Do not leave a car at Hampton Furnace.

I can throw the racks in the truck and haul 1 canoe and 1 kayak up top and 1 canoe in the bed with the bed extender.

Will either drop you off or have a sherpa and driver follow me to drive my truck out.




Logistics-wise, we could actually just drop everything at the put in, leave some folks to run some real world hammock tests, and then one car would have to make the run down to Batsto. Atsion might be open, they usually open around April 1, that would make things easier.

I can lean on Max to shuttle us in from the Ranger station and let him have the truck for the weekend. Unless he wants to come.


May be better to drop boats and gear at hampton furnace first and then head to batsto and back. I'll be in closer to 11 have a scout function first thing Sat morning.
Never timed the paddle speed may be even slower.:lol:

Ok, call me logistically challenged. Sounds like the best option is to put boats on Ratdog's vehicle. In my mind, the best option is for all to meet at Batsto Village, transfer boats to Ratdog vehicle, and head on up to Hampton Furnace. All gear would remain in Ratdog vehicle (sans snacks and beverages) and he would sherpa it to the parking lot east of Lower Forge. When we arrive by boat at Lower Forge, we hike to Ratdog vehicle and sherpa gear in (hopefully he has those cool carts).

Alternatively, njredneck and I could drop canoes/kayaks off at Hampton Furnace first, then drive to Batsto Village. Only thing is, I'd rather leave a human at Hampton Furnace to keep an eye on our watercraft, but Hollow Leg Joe can't drive (legally)and I don't think njredneck would want to leave Hollow Leg Joe alone while we took cars back to Batsto Village.

If Chowhound and I carpool, we could leave him with watercraft (or he leaves me) at Hampton Furnace as we shuttle vehicles to Batsto Village and meet up with Ratdog. If there's a better way, let me know.

Since we have sherpa service, we might want to rethink menu!

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 16:32
One way to do it.

1) Everything is hauled to Hampton Furnace first.
(If someone is not comfortable going directly there, we can meet at Atsion Ranger Station, then drive back to the furnace)

2) Drop all gear at furnace.
I will stay with gear. (Anyone else is welcome to stay, I will be hanging and napping)
(Leaving ample passenger room for shuttle vehicle return)

3) All vehicles head to Batsto

4) Drivers return to Atsion Ranger Station. (Via shuttle vehicle to be left at Atsion or possible Sherpa run)

5) I will have sherpa drive folks from Atsion Ranger Station to furnace.

Optional: food/wood stash drop at Lower Forge Parking lot
Concern: there will be others using the parking lot no doubt, not sure how,much I want to drop and leave stuff.

Option: SilvrSurf &P47 goto Batsto, NJredneck goes to Hampton, drops gear, then to Batsto to drop truck and catch ride back yo Hampton. P47's vehicle, after dropping gear, goes to Atsion Ranger Station and sherpa service drives y'all back to furnace.

Option: everyone drops at Hampton Furnace, IF we can leave someone with gear, I drive to Batsto and bring drivers back to Furnace. Hmmm, maybe Max stays with gear if i can get that much time from him. That way all,vehicles are at Batsto except mine. No vehicles left at Atsion. Ala SS's plan

My sherpa service will be HeWhoSitsByFire (Max) using my truck or my sister using her truck. I have them on call for at least one run to haul my truck out after drop off, not sure if I can get them for a couple hours.

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 16:36
Considerations for a shortened trip if needed due to foul weather or timing.
(Just a backup plan)

Put in can be at Jersey Central Railroad via taking Riders Switch from Hampton Furnace.

Take out can be Quaker Bridge on Sunday

This would be made possible by call to sherpa service.

Again this is only if foul weather develops. Right now extended forecast has rain possible but I would not plan for it at this point, just preparing contingencies if needed.

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 16:38
Gourmet delivery service:

I can check with Max later tonight/tomorrow to see if he is available for Gourmet delivery service. We could have 2 wagons, one for wood, one for food.

We would put the call out when we arrive at Lower Forge and he would drive back with stuff.

silentorpheus
03-23-2014, 17:10
I'm in for Saturday into Sunday, and whatever transportation method is happening.

I may need to make a strategic exit on Sunday due to time constraints, though I'm still working that out with the other half. I.e. I may need to be home by around 3pm, so if the plan is leave camp at 10 or 11 and paddle for 4-5 hours down to Batsto (then 1.5 hour drive home), I may not be logistically able to do that, and may need to have the option to hike out Sunday instead, rather than put a time crunch on the group. I'll update later when the misses gets home and we discuss.

Logistical question: How do we ensure gear stays dry? I do not have river appropriate dry sacks/bags big enough to make sure quilts are watertight. I haven't done any watercraft of this sort in 20 years, so consider me a noob. :cool: Put me in a sail boat and I'm your man - but I've been in a kayak/canoe twice since I was a teen, and it was never combined with camping.

njredneck
03-23-2014, 18:04
82340I have a very large dry bag(16"x16"x35")

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 18:05
Double wrap trash bags. Or triple wrap if you prefer.
Rain is a possibility.

Keep everything bagged, plan for a swim gearwise and clotheswise. Make sure you can change into something warm and dry.

We are paddling flatwater so it's not terribly tricky. Mostly having someone who can steer is the key.

I am extremely comfortable on the water with many years canoeing, kayaking, sailing, whitewater kayaking and rafting experience. Cetainly willing to share a few pointers along the way.

I'd suggest a seat cushion for those not used to spending hours in a canoe, kayak.

I'll see what i have in the way of personal floatation devices, likely required by law anyway.

With luck we will have temps in the 60's.

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 18:06
82340I have a very large dry bag(16"x16"x35")

Now THAT's a dry bag!

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 19:03
If Chowhound and I carpool, we could leave him with watercraft (or he leaves me) at Hampton Furnace as we shuttle vehicles to Batsto Village and meet up with Ratdog. If there's a better way, let me know.

Since we have sherpa service, we might want to rethink menu!

If you guys carpool, that makes it easier.

> As you said, drop all gear at Hampton Furnace. (someone stays with gear)
> Drive vehicles to Batsto.
> I drive to Batsto and bring drivers back to Hampton Furnace.
> Nephew drives my truck home.

Sorry to overcomplicate things earlier.

SilvrSurfr
03-23-2014, 19:13
That sounds a lot easier - my brain was frying over the logistical implications.

I don't see that keeping gear dry in the canoe is an issue, at least on Saturday, 'cause the gear won't be in the canoe - it will be sherpa'd to the parking lot east of Lower Forge. On Sunday, we'll do as Ratdog indicated and double-bag it in contractor (not compactor) trash bags.

I have no intention of bailing out at Quaker Bridge - the weather forecast looks to be warm enough, so even if it's raining on Sunday we should be good to go paddling with raingear or poncho. Paddling won't generate the perspiration/condensation that hiking in rain does.

Still looking for a spare paddle, if I have three bodies in my canoe. Anybody got one? I've got a shorty collapsible paddle, but it's not all that great. Then again, it's probable that the center person won't need to paddle much anyway.

SilvrSurfr
03-23-2014, 19:34
I'm in for Saturday into Sunday, and whatever transportation method is happening.

I may need to make a strategic exit on Sunday due to time constraints, though I'm still working that out with the other half. I.e. I may need to be home by around 3pm, so if the plan is leave camp at 10 or 11 and paddle for 4-5 hours down to Batsto (then 1.5 hour drive home), I may not be logistically able to do that, and may need to have the option to hike out Sunday instead, rather than put a time crunch on the group. I'll update later when the misses gets home and we discuss.

Logistical question: How do we ensure gear stays dry? I do not have river appropriate dry sacks/bags big enough to make sure quilts are watertight. I haven't done any watercraft of this sort in 20 years, so consider me a noob. :cool: Put me in a sail boat and I'm your man - but I've been in a kayak/canoe twice since I was a teen, and it was never combined with camping.

As I said earlier, I would be willing to get up early on Sunday morning and hit the river for those who have to get home to Momma. I'll bring contractor bags to keep all our gear dry - the river is very calm and virtually no chance of getting gear wet other than drippage from the paddles. Like you, I haven't done a river trip in twenty years, though I do go canoeing in the Adirondacks every year with my sons. We haven't gotten gear wet yet, just using the trash bags.

SilvrSurfr
03-23-2014, 20:27
My main concern with the canoe trip is blowdown/falldown. My last Pine Barrens trip twenty years ago involved a lot of lifting the canoe over blowdowns and occasionally shallow water where we had to drag/carry the canoe (this was a summer trip with low water). I expect our only issue will be in the upper reaches of the Batsto around Hampton Furnace. By the time you get to Lower Forge, shallow water should be a non-issue, though we may have to overcome the occasional blowdown.

So I'm planning on my feet/legs getting wet. I plan on bringing a change of clothes, towels to dry my legs, and possibly a wool blanket to keep my legs warm after they get wet.

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 20:38
That sounds a lot easier - my brain was frying over the logistical implications.

I don't see that keeping gear dry in the canoe is an issue, at least on Saturday, 'cause the gear won't be in the canoe - it will be sherpa'd to the parking lot east of Lower Forge. On Sunday, we'll do as Ratdog indicated and double-bag it in contractor (not compactor) trash bags.

I have no intention of bailing out at Quaker Bridge - the weather forecast looks to be warm enough, so even if it's raining on Sunday we should be good to go paddling with raingear or poncho. Paddling won't generate the perspiration/condensation that hiking in rain does.

Still looking for a spare paddle, if I have three bodies in my canoe. Anybody got one? I've got a shorty collapsible paddle, but it's not all that great. Then again, it's probable that the center person won't need to paddle much anyway.

I have paddles.
Will bring an extra one.

I won't be leaving the truck in the woods overnight near Lower Forge.

If we want to load the truck with stuff and then call for the sherpa delivery when we get to Lower Forge, I will confirm that we can do that estimating an arrival time of 3-4pm.

SilvrSurfr
03-23-2014, 21:10
The Kirkwood-Cohansey Aquifer, some of the freshest water on earth:

http://www.pinelandsalliance.org/ecology/water/groundwaterandaquifers/kirkwoodcohansey/

SilvrSurfr
03-23-2014, 21:11
I have paddles.
Will bring an extra one.

I won't be leaving the truck in the woods overnight near Lower Forge.

If we want to load the truck with stuff and then call for the sherpa delivery when we get to Lower Forge, I will confirm that we can do that estimating an arrival time of 3-4pm.

Are you paddling or hiking/sherpa-ing in? Getting confused.:confused:

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 21:23
I will paddle on Sat and Sun.
Likely will use a canoe not a kayak.

Sherpa service will drive my truck out of the woods Sat after I am done running shuttle from Batsto to Hampton Furnace.

Sherpa Service is picking me up Sun wherever I want; Lower Forge (highly unlikely) Quaker Bridge (bailout option) or Batsto.

I will confirm if sherpa service will make 2nd trip into the woods Sat to drop food/firewood/gear at Lower Forge around 4pm.

SilvrSurfr
03-23-2014, 21:46
One of my favorite ultralite clothing songs:

o2yU9pbpki4

And here's a river song by Bob Dylan which I think is a riff on Siddhartha by Herman Hesse, I'm Just Sitting Here Watching the River Flow:

Can't find an actual Bob Dylan version so here's Joe Cocker.

zGp4itRd9A0

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 22:05
Are you paddling or hiking/sherpa-ing in? Getting confused.:confused:

I am paddling.
Will drop my gear at Hampton and am available to shuttle folks from Batsto back to Hampton Furnace. (at which point my sherpa will pickup my truck and leave)

Sherpa service is picking up my truck Sat and returning Sun to pick me up.

I am checking on sherpa service availability to make a run to Lower Forge for gear drop off Sat afternoon.

SilvrSurfr
03-23-2014, 22:08
I will paddle on Sat and Sun.
Likely will use a canoe not a kayak.

Is that a one or two-man canoe? Just trying to get a count on available seats in watercraft.

1) I have a 16' 9" Old Town Discovery with a 1500 lb. carrying capacity. I can carry two or three passengers.
2) njredneck has two person canoe
3) njredneck has one-person kayak
4) Ratdog has x-person canoe

Just wanna know how we're gonna distribute the passengers. Maybe somebody does most of the paddling in the same boat with Ratdog, so his shoulders stay okay.

We have a potential of 8 people on four boats, neh?

Right now, five of those 8 spots are occupied.

Ratdog
03-23-2014, 22:16
I will be in a 2 person 16' canoe. About 1100lb capacity.

Can also bring a kayak, 1 person canoe or a 2nd 2 person canoe if that helps.

silentorpheus
03-23-2014, 22:22
I will be in a 2 person 16' boat. About 1100lb capacity.

Can also bring a kayak or 1 person canoe if that helps.

I can paddle with Ratdog. P-47 with SS, HLJ with NJRedneck.

Then we only have to figure out what to do, if any of the slight maybes show. Who are those again, anyway?

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 01:25
I can paddle with Ratdog. P-47 with SS, HLJ with NJRedneck.

Then we only have to figure out what to do, if any of the slight maybes show. Who are those again, anyway?

Ummm, the imaginery Deadphans and his imaginary friends who constantly impede him from joining group hangs? Who else?

And when we get to camp, after a long paddle, I will open my imaginary 40 oz. and po' some out in honor of the imaginary folks who could not be with us.

silentorpheus
03-24-2014, 07:17
Ummm, the imaginery Deadphans and his imaginary friends who constantly impede him from joining group hangs? Who else?

And when we get to camp, after a long paddle, I will open my imaginary 40 oz. and po' some out in honor of the imaginary folks who could not be with us.

Is it my imagination or was your response different before? I swear there was another post here, that disappeared.

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 08:46
If needed, I can secure additional canoes or kayaks.
I'm borrowing the canoe I'm using, certainly can borrow more if needed.
Would need to know by Wed to work out details.

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 11:08
If needed, I can secure additional canoes or kayaks.
I'm borrowing the canoe I'm using, certainly can borrow more if needed.
Would need to know by Wed to work out details.

I'd prefer to have only two in my canoe, but we'll see how it works out.

Pretbek
03-24-2014, 11:18
I can paddle with Ratdog. P-47 with SS, HLJ with NJRedneck.

Then we only have to figure out what to do, if any of the slight maybes show. Who are those again, anyway?

I just quickly read through the thread and my eyeballs were spinning like a jackpot trying to figure out the logistics. Only thanks to your own summaries do I think I understand the plans and implications. Mostly.

Can I join you guys? :scared:
The weekend sounds like a boatload of fun. I won't be a maybe, if you guys and logistics allow me to join then I'm in.

P-47ChowHound
03-24-2014, 11:38
Don't want to "upset the canoe" but it may be best to count me out of the yachting end. I MUST be back home by 11am Sunday. I don't want any one leaving early on my account. Still plan to come. Will help with sherpaing or shuttling. Maybe catch a ride to the lot and help Max. Will keep watching this thread to see how I can blend in.

Disclaimer. I know that bailing will result punishment of sorts. Please be gentle.:scared:

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 11:44
Don't want to "upset the canoe" but it may be best to count me out of the yachting end. I MUST be back home by 11am Sunday. I don't want any one leaving early on my account. Still plan to come. Will help with sherpaing or shuttling. Maybe catch a ride to the lot and help Max. Will keep watching this thread to see how I can blend in.

Disclaimer. I know that bailing will result punishment of sorts. Please be gentle.:scared:


YAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH !!

Haha, no worries.
You can choose to leave a vehicle in the "parking lot" near Lower Forge.
Parking is at "your own risk" as it is not an "official" lot that is patrolled by NJ Rangers.
If you ask at the Ranger Station they will tell you "no" or strongly discourage you from doing so.
That said, lots of folks do it.

I can bring a second canoe to make up the difference.

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 11:46
I just quickly read through the thread and my eyeballs were spinning like a jackpot trying to figure out the logistics. Only thanks to your own summaries do I think I understand the plans and implications. Mostly.

Can I join you guys? :scared:
The weekend sounds like a boatload of fun. I won't be a maybe, if you guys and logistics allow me to join then I'm in.

All are welcome.
We have the canoes/kayaks.

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 12:09
Don't want to "upset the canoe" but it may be best to count me out of the yachting end. I MUST be back home by 11am Sunday. I don't want any one leaving early on my account. Still plan to come. Will help with sherpaing or shuttling. Maybe catch a ride to the lot and help Max. Will keep watching this thread to see how I can blend in.

Disclaimer. I know that bailing will result punishment of sorts. Please be gentle.:scared:

Glad I ain't you. You're gonna have to get up pretty early to hike out to Batsto and make it home by 11 am. I'd guess you'd have to hit the trail by 6 am.

Or you could take Ratdog's suggestion and leave a car near Lower Forge.

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 12:15
I just quickly read through the thread and my eyeballs were spinning like a jackpot trying to figure out the logistics. Only thanks to your own summaries do I think I understand the plans and implications. Mostly.

Can I join you guys? :scared:
The weekend sounds like a boatload of fun. I won't be a maybe, if you guys and logistics allow me to join then I'm in.

It'll be great to see you again, Pretbek. Must admit I still don't understand the logistics. Somebody just tell me where to drive and what to do!

Pretbek
03-24-2014, 13:13
It'll be great to see you again, Pretbek. Must admit I still don't understand the logistics. Somebody just tell me where to drive and what to do!

Those were my exact sentiments! You actually already did a good job in your post 84 (https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?89651-NJ-gt-Lower-Forge-gt-3-29-14&p=1226761&viewfull=1#post1226761).

Do I need to make a site reservation? (If so, how? :confused:)
And let's keep track of that menu, I understand we don't need to schlep the food in the canoes so we can get a little creative. That makes me feel all carnivorous...

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 13:37
I think that by saying "sherpa service" it was presumed that I would not be paddling but would be available to deliver food/supplies to Lower Forge.

That was not my plan.

I intend to paddle.

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 13:41
Those were my exact sentiments! You actually already did a good job in your post 84 (https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?89651-NJ-gt-Lower-Forge-gt-3-29-14&p=1226761&viewfull=1#post1226761).

Do I need to make a site reservation? (If so, how? :confused:)
And let's keep track of that menu, I understand we don't need to schlep the food in the canoes so we can get a little creative. That makes me feel all carnivorous...

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the sites we have reserved (Sites 4 & 5) are sufficient for our numbers:

Silvrsurfr
njredneck
Hollow Leg Joe
P-47 Chowhound
Ratdog
Pretbek
SilentOrpheus

Sites are reserved through ReserveAmerica:

http://www.reserveamerica.com/camping/wharton-state-forest/r/campgroundDetails.do?contractCode=NJ&parkId=670056

We can also reserve walk-in (assuming availability) when we go to pick up permits at Batsto Village. Right now none of the other sites are reserved. Sites 6 & 7 are the best hammock sites available.

silentorpheus
03-24-2014, 13:47
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the sites we have reserved (Sites 4 & 5) are sufficient for our numbers:

Silvrsurfr
njredneck
Hollow Leg Joe
P-47 Chowhound
Ratdog
Pretbek
SilentOrpheus

Sites are reserved through ReserveAmerica:

http://www.reserveamerica.com/camping/wharton-state-forest/r/campgroundDetails.do?contractCode=NJ&parkId=670056

We can also reserve walk-in (assuming availability) when we go to pick up permits at Batsto Village. Right now none of the other sites are reserved. Sites 6 & 7 are the best hammock sites available.

We got 4 and 5 - those are the prime hanging spots. Probably enough for all of us to hang there, unless they've cut some trees or something. We haven't been there for a year, so I'm not sure how it's looking. Might have to get creative and share some trees.

If anything, we could possible grab 6 or 7 depending. There was room for 2 at 7, one at 6, and one between 6 and 7.

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 13:50
I agree with NJRedneck's plan to haul gear/boats to Hampton Furnace first and leaving a "guard".
Reason, my truck will not be able to haul all paddlers, boats and gear to Hampton Furnace in a single trip.

Now, I can haul something from Batsto to Hampton Furnace on the shuttle run, like a canoe and kayak, possibly 2 canoes.
Doing so limits the gear that can be in the back of the truck because the tailgate will be down.

Q: SilvrSurfr, are you hauling your boat or are you carpooling with P47?

Q: would you rather go right to Batsto and transfer canoe to my truck (or P47's) for the shuttle run back to Hampton Furnace?
(that would mean you can go right to Batsto)

Q: Is P47 driving&hauling SS canoe and planning on leaving vehicle at Lower Forge for bailout Sun AM?
(in which case no need for a shuttle run from Batsto to Hampton Furnace, just goto Batsto, get permits, come to HF and then P47 and I will shuttle his vehicle to LF parking lot)

I'm thinking based on the way things are shaking out we are still left with the following;
>drop gear at Hampton Furnace
>leave guard at Hampton Furnace
>some people go directly to Batsto, others head there from Hampton Furnace
>shuttle from Batsto to Hampton Furnace with people, gear and canoe if there is one.
>shuttle could be P47 since it is likely he will be leaving from Lower Forge AND can haul a canoe.
>ratdog is available to shuttle if needed

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 13:54
Logistically speaking this is not daunting to me as I have to contend with 6 different soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, basketball, baseball games on any given weekend and rarely are any 2 on a single set of fields.

Only thing I need is who wants to go, who is bringing boats.

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 14:06
I will be bringing one Tenkara fishing setup and maybe an ultralight spinning rig.

If anyone wants to fish, don't forget to grab your license.

njredneck
03-24-2014, 14:26
Lets nail down the menu. I think the only restrictions should be has to be able to be cooked on the grill or in the fire. This way don't need any pots and pans. I'll bring my coffee pot. My wife suggested bacon wrapped chicken breasts. Lets hear some other ideas.

I have a friend coming along also this weekend. He can stand guard over the gear with Hollow Leg Joe at Hampton Furnace while people are being shuttled from Batsto. Does anyone have an extra UQ that i can borrow for him?

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 14:37
Lets nail down the menu. I think the only restrictions should be has to be able to be cooked on the grill or in the fire. This way don't need any pots and pans. I'll bring my coffee pot. My wife suggested bacon wrapped chicken breasts. Lets hear some other ideas.

I have a friend coming along also this weekend. He can stand guard over the gear with Hollow Leg Joe at Hampton Furnace while people are being shuttled from Batsto. Does anyone have an extra UQ that i can borrow for him?

I'll bring one.

silentorpheus
03-24-2014, 14:37
Alright,

So anyway I look at it, I don't know that I can come along for the paddle Sunday. Unless we hit the water early and beat feet down to Batsto, I don't know how I'd be home much earlier than 4 or 5 pm. That's out for me, and I don't want to rush you all. The wife has plans for that evening, and it's either be home in time before she has to leave, or don't go at all.

SO - I'm thinking I'm in for paddling to camp Saturday, and then Sunday morning I'll need to get out to my car some other way. Either I bring the pack and leave directly from Lower Forge, or possibly depending on how things look I could bring the pack, paddle down to Quakerbridge with you all, and hike from there, cutting 1 mile or so off the hike, instead spent leisurely on the river.

That means it would probably be best to leave my car at Atsion instead of Batsto. That might aid in the shuttling the first day - not sure.

Unless someone else has a better option that I'm not considering. Worst case if P-47 ends up leaving a car at the LF lot, I could always catch a ride that way, though that'd be an early retreat.

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 14:48
I will not be carpooling with P47-Chowhound. I will be hauling my canoe on my 2009 Chevy Cobalt. I can take the canoe directly to Hampton Furnace if that maximizes truck space for gear haul-in. I think it's best for us to keep gear out of the canoes on the Hampton Furnace-Lower Forge leg 'cause that section is a bit of an unknown and a fully-loaded canoe can be hard to get over/around blowdowns.

A big if is whether P47-Chowhound is planning to leave his vehicle at Lower Forge. I wouldn't attempt those roads without four-wheel drive and I don't think he has 4WD so he'll probably just leave his vehicle at Batsto and hike out. If he does plan on trying to drive there, a glance at the map leads me to believe this is how you get to the parking lot east of Lower Forge:

From Carranza Rd, right on Tuckerton Road, right on Mines Spring Rd., right on Lower Forge Road and that eventually ends up at the parking lot near the turnoff to Lower Forge.

I doubt there are signs on any of these roads so carrying a map would likely prove helpful - or bring a Piney that knows the way!

silentorpheus
03-24-2014, 14:50
I will not be carpooling with P47-Chowhound. I will be hauling my canoe on my 2009 Chevy Cobalt. I can take the canoe directly to Hampton Furnace if that maximizes truck space for gear haul-in. I think it's best for us to keep gear out of the canoes on the Hampton Furnace-Lower Forge leg 'cause that section is a bit of an unknown and a fully-loaded canoe can be hard to get over/around blowdowns.

A big if is whether P47-Chowhound is planning to leave his vehicle at Lower Forge. I wouldn't attempt those roads without four-wheel drive and I don't think he has 4WD so he'll probably just leave his vehicle at Batsto and hike out. If he does plan on trying to drive there, a glance at the map leads me to believe this is how you get to the parking lot east of Lower Forge:

From Carranza Rd, right on Tuckerton Road, right on Mines Spring Rd., right on Lower Forge Road and that eventually ends up at the parking lot near the turnoff to Lower Forge.

I doubt there are signs on any of these roads so carrying a map would likely prove helpful - or bring a Piney that knows the way!

If we don't carry gear in the canoes, how will we get the gear to LF? Since Ratdog is paddling, who would bring stuff to the LF lot for us to pick up?

Might be unavoidable to bring stuff on the river with us on Saturday.

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 15:06
If we don't carry gear in the canoes, how will we get the gear to LF? Since Ratdog is paddling, who would bring stuff to the LF lot for us to pick up?

Might be unavoidable to bring stuff on the river with us on Saturday.

That would be Ratdog's sherpas. At least that's my understanding, but my redding comprension level ain't wut it uzed to bee.

Have you been reading Ratdog's posts or is your Iphone blocking them?

silentorpheus
03-24-2014, 15:08
That would be Ratdog's sherpas. At least that's my understanding, but my redding comprension level ain't wut it uzed to bee.

Have you been reading Ratdog's posts or is your Iphone blocking them?

I'm not always on tapatalk, skippy. :) Working from home today - seeing all the posts just fine.

Whether or not I read them thoroughly … that's another question entirely.

P-47ChowHound
03-24-2014, 15:08
A big if is whether P47-Chowhound is planning to leave his vehicle at Lower Forge. I wouldn't attempt those roads without four-wheel drive and I don't think he has 4WD so he'll probably just leave his vehicle at Batsto and hike out. If he does plan on trying to drive there, a glance at the map leads me to believe this is how you get to the parking lot east of Lower Forge:

I am planning on it. Talked to Ratdog and he seems to think I can get to LF lot with 2WD.
From Carranza Rd, right on Tuckerton Road, right on Mines Spring Rd., right on Lower Forge Road and that eventually ends up at the parking lot near the turnoff to Lower Forge.

I doubt there are signs on any of these roads so carrying a map would likely prove helpful - or bring a Piney that knows the way!

Ratdog is this the best 2WD route?


Alright,

Unless someone else has a better option that I'm not considering. Worst case if P-47 ends up leaving a car at the LF lot, I could always catch a ride that way, though that'd be an early retreat.

As long as I can get in there you are welcome to a ride.

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 15:38
Okay, just got off the phone with Ratdog and we have a new logistical plan.

1. Anybody with a boat, drop it off at Hampton Furnace (HLJ and njredneck +1 will guard the boats).
2. Anybody without a boat, drive to Atsion Ranger office and leave your car there (Silent Orpheus, Pretbek, P47-Chowhound).
3. After dropping off our boats at Hampton Furnace, njredneck, Ratdog and I will grab the non-boaters' gear and load into Ratdog's truck, then drive to Batsto Village where we will pick up permits and drop off njredneck and SilvrSurfr vehicle.
4. Ratdog will drive njredneck and SilvrSurfr to Hampton Furnace. Sherpa will pick up Ratdog vehicle and drive it to Lower Forge.
5. Paddle to Lower Forge.
6. Ratdog sherpa will be at Lower Forge parking lot and we will sherpa gear in approx. 1/3 to .5 miles to Lower Forge.
7. In the morning, P47-Chowhound and SilentOrpheus can hike 5.7 miles out to Atsion (Lower Forge->Quaker Bridge->Beaver Pond/Quaker Bridge connector trail->Atsion). Might be a little less than 5.7 miles.
8. NJRedneck and +1, HLJ, Ratdog, Pretbek & SilvrSurfr paddle to Batsto Village.
9. Ratdog sherpa arrives at Batsto Village to pickup up Ratdog.
10. Ratdog will take Pretbek (and Silent Orpheus if he decides to paddle) to Atsion since he has to drive up 206 to go home.

Sound like a plan? Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Can someone second that emotion?

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 15:42
Ratdog is this the best 2WD route?



As long as I can get in there you are welcome to a ride.

I don't think you should risk taking your vehicle down that road for three reasons:

1) You don't have 4WD - there just isn't a 2WD way to get to Lower Forge parking lot. I've hiked a lot of these roads and they're iffy on 2WD.
2) Somebody would have to come pick you up at Lower Forge if you made it, which complicates things logistically, will take a chunk of time (probably 30 minute drive in, 45 minutes to Hampton Furnace).
3) If you get stuck (and there's a good chance you will), then Ratdog will have to rescue you since he's the only one (to my knowledge) with 4WD and a tow rope. So while he's rescuing you, he can't be shuttling us and our gear.

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 15:51
If any latecomers decide to show up, they should park at Atsion. Your gear will be picked up going in, and you'll be dropped off at Atsion after we reach Batsto Village.

njredneck
03-24-2014, 15:54
Okay, just got off the phone with Ratdog and we have a new logistical plan.

1. Anybody with a boat, drop it off at Hampton Furnace (HLJ and njredneck +1 will guard the boats).
2. Anybody without a boat, drive to Atsion Ranger office and leave your car there (Silent Orpheus, Pretbek, P47-Chowhound).
3. After dropping off our boats at Hampton Furnace, njredneck, Ratdog and I will grab the non-boaters' gear and load into Ratdog's truck, then drive to Batsto Village where we will pick up permits and drop off njredneck and SilvrSurfr vehicle.
4. Ratdog will drive njredneck and SilvrSurfr to Hampton Furnace. Sherpa will pick up Ratdog vehicle and drive it to Lower Forge.
5. Paddle to Lower Forge.
6. Ratdog sherpa will be at Lower Forge parking lot and we will sherpa gear in approx. 1/3 to .5 miles to Lower Forge.
7. In the morning, P47-Chowhound and SilentOrpheus can hike 5.7 miles out to Atsion (Lower Forge->Quaker Bridge->Beaver Pond/Quaker Bridge connector trail->Atsion). Might be a little less than 5.7 miles.
8. NJRedneck and +1, HLJ, Ratdog, Pretbek & SilvrSurfr paddle to Batsto Village.
9. Ratdog sherpa arrives at Batsto Village to pickup up Ratdog.
10. Ratdog will take Pretbek (and Silent Orpheus if he decides to paddle) to Atsion since he has to drive up 206 to go home.

Sound like a plan? Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Can someone second that emotion?

Sounds like a plan to me. I can probably get there around 10:30 that will get us on the water around noon I think.

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 16:02
Amen!

Why am I thinking about Monty Python & the Holy Grail?
Stay here and make sure she doesn't leave the room.
"Right".
Where are you going?
"We're coming with you!"

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 16:03
Sounds like a plan to me. I can probably get there around 10:30 that will get us on the water around noon I think.

I hope it meets everyone else's approval so we can move away from confusing logistics and get into menu planning!:)

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 16:04
We are suppose to get some snow here, I will go scout the road to Lower Forge in the snow, hang a hammock, have some tea & report back with info Wed.

Need to get some landmarks and GPS Nav points for Max anyway.

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 16:07
Confirmed my sister is willing to drive truck into Lower Forge.
Load up on food & firewood if you like.

I can bring 1 or 2 wagons.

She is also willing to hump in some gear. She is a walking/hiking/backpacking machine.

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 16:26
Now that we are hopefully done with logistics, is site 4 and 5 sufficient for our numbers or should we grab another site? If we do go this route, shouldn't Ratdog reserve it since he will actually be going to Batsto Village?

Menu:

I'll bring shrimp and bread for an appetizer (still got near a pound of it; we can grill the shrimp or cook in aluminum foil). Brats and buns are cool, maybe a steak or two, and some grilled veggies (yellow squash, zucchini, onions, broccoli grilled or cooked in aluminum foil).

For breakfast, coffee is necessary - after that I don't care. I'll bring my french press and some Booskerdoo coffee.

P-47ChowHound
03-24-2014, 17:56
Okay, just got off the phone with Ratdog and we have a new logistical plan.

1. Anybody with a boat, drop it off at Hampton Furnace (HLJ and njredneck +1 will guard the boats).
2. Anybody without a boat, drive to Atsion Ranger office and leave your car there (Silent Orpheus, Pretbek, P47-Chowhound).
3. After dropping off our boats at Hampton Furnace, njredneck, Ratdog and I will grab the non-boaters' gear and load into Ratdog's truck, then drive to Batsto Village where we will pick up permits and drop off njredneck and SilvrSurfr vehicle.
4. Ratdog will drive njredneck and SilvrSurfr to Hampton Furnace. Sherpa will pick up Ratdog vehicle and drive it to Lower Forge.
5. Paddle to Lower Forge.
6. Ratdog sherpa will be at Lower Forge parking lot and we will sherpa gear in approx. 1/3 to .5 miles to Lower Forge.
7. In the morning, P47-Chowhound and SilentOrpheus can hike 5.7 miles out to Atsion (Lower Forge->Quaker Bridge->Beaver Pond/Quaker Bridge connector trail->Atsion). Might be a little less than 5.7 miles.
8. NJRedneck and +1, HLJ, Ratdog, Pretbek & SilvrSurfr paddle to Batsto Village.
9. Ratdog sherpa arrives at Batsto Village to pickup up Ratdog.
10. Ratdog will take Pretbek (and Silent Orpheus if he decides to paddle) to Atsion since he has to drive up 206 to go home.

Sound like a plan? Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Can someone second that emotion?

Amen.
"Will do as I am told, till the rights to me are sold" The Slime by Frank Zappa:)


I don't think you should risk taking your vehicle down that road for three reasons:

Thanks for the advice and heads up.


Now that we are hopefully done with logistics, is site 4 and 5 sufficient for our numbers or should we grab another site? If we do go this route, shouldn't Ratdog reserve it since he will actually be going to Batsto Village?

Menu:

I'll bring shrimp and bread for an appetizer (still got near a pound of it; we can grill the shrimp or cook in aluminum foil). Brats and buns are cool, maybe a steak or two, and some grilled veggies (yellow squash, zucchini, onions, broccoli grilled or cooked in aluminum foil).

For breakfast, coffee is necessary - after that I don't care. I'll bring my french press and some Booskerdoo coffee.

How bout an marinated london broil? Cheese and Peperoni for campfire?

njredneck
03-24-2014, 18:13
I won't say no

njredneck
03-24-2014, 19:20
I'll grab some brats and buns.

Jshep420
03-24-2014, 19:21
Amen!

Why am I thinking about Monty Python & the Holy Grail?
Stay here and make sure she doesn't leave the room.
"Right".
Where are you going?
"We're coming with you!"

"One day this will all be yours!"

"What the curtains?"

Ratdog
03-24-2014, 20:43
"One day this will all be yours!"

"What the curtains?"

haha
You should hike out Sat evening from the Lower Forge Parking area
Sounds like it will be quite a feast.
Not too bad for a 1/3-1/2 mile hike.

Jshep420
03-24-2014, 20:52
haha
You should hike out Sat evening from the Lower Forge Parking area
Sounds like it will be quite a feast.
Not too bad for a 1/3-1/2 mile hike.

I know. I really wish I could. Grandpas 90th bday. I've been following this thread the whole time and I really what to set another trip after this one. Sounds like u guys r fun! Next time count me in. I also have a kayak so that's an option too!!

Pretbek
03-24-2014, 21:56
I'll bring yellow squash, zucchini, red pepper, onions. Gotta get me some crunchy vitamins!

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 22:06
Looking at Google Maps, there may be a quicker way to hike back to Atsion for those so inclined. This shortcut could shave 3+ miles off your hike out and allow you to sleep/socialize a bit more in the morning.

As I recall, Old Lower Forge Road used to come from the west into Lower Forge (think about the back of the campsite where Jerzey Bears hung the last time they were with us). The bridge is long gone but we could ferry you across the river and Old Lower Forge Road would shorten your hike. I remember somebody doing this but can't remember who it was for the life of me.

Go to Google.com/maps and search on Old Lower Forge Road, Hammonton, NJ, then compare to this map and you'll see what I'm talking about.

http://www.njhiking.com/nj-hiking-maps/wharton-state-forest/wharton-batsto-atsion-trail-map.pdf

The satellite imagery makes this look like a viable shortcut and not much of a bushwhack. We should reconn when we get there Saturday to see if it's feasible - if the hikers are interested. Phone GPS should help us locate it.

Once across the river, follow Old Lower Forge Road ->West-Southwest, then take second right on Quaker Bridge Road ->North-Northwest. That'll take you right back to Atsion. You could also take the Mullica River trail as it crisscrosses Quaker Bridge Road 2-3 times, to my recollection.

Just trying to look after my hiking homeys in a hurry to get back to dey baby Momma!

And some of you thought I didn't know how to read a map!:rolleyes:

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 22:52
I'll bring yellow squash, zucchini, red pepper, onions. Gotta get me some crunchy vitamins!

Don't forget the broccoli! SilentOrpheus loves broccoli!

I have two bags of birch wood inexplicably left over from the last hang - I'll bring those.

silentorpheus
03-24-2014, 23:09
Don't forget the broccoli! SilentOrpheus loves broccoli!

I have two bags of birch wood inexplicably left over from the last hang - I'll bring those.

Considering how much NJRedneck and Ratdog brought last hang, it's not really surprising. 4 pallets - that's all I'm saying.

And I do like broccoli. :)

I'm still kicking round the surf and turf idea we had last time. Gonna see if I can come up with a good way to cook lobster tails in the woods ...

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 23:16
I'm still kicking round the surf and turf idea we had last time. Gonna see if I can come up with a good way to cook lobster tails in the woods ...

Shrimp, lobster tails - dang if it don't seem incomplete without scallops!

Pretbek
03-24-2014, 23:26
Shrimp, lobster tails - dang if it don't seem incomplete without scallops!

And bacon.
We need vitamin bacon.

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 23:29
And bacon.
We need vitamin bacon.

That's so 2005. We need vitamin Applewood-Smoked Bacon. Is there any other kind?

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 23:41
For those of you new to the Garden State Hammock and Dinner Association of NJ, please refer to the last meeting minutes to familiarize yourself with the officers of the GSHDANJ:

https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?89426-Garden-State-Hammock-and-Dinner-Association-of-NJ-Meeting-3-1-14-Official-M

If you are not yet an officer, then please select a title, however ridiculous, and make a motion to approve said title.

SilentOrpheus, Grand Senior Director of Beverage Procurement, may not be aware that Pretbek is of Dutch persuasion; i.e., born and raised in the Netherlands. This may influence the beverage menu, if Pretbek approves.

The Dutch invented gin, and ginever, and lots of cool adult beverages, so I am in favor of a Dutch theme, and make a motion to bestow a Dutch theme upon the beverage selection for this hang. Can I get a second?

SilvrSurfr
03-24-2014, 23:57
Is there any way to get some pallets to Lower Forge? The next episode of Pineys Burning Pallets or As the Pallet Burns or Between Two Pallets just seems wrong without pallets.

Ratdog
03-25-2014, 01:00
Pallets float, bring enough of them and we can build a raft !!

njredneck
03-25-2014, 05:53
I'm still kicking round the surf and turf idea we had last time. Gonna see if I can come up with a good way to cook lobster tails in the woods ...

I bet we could rig up a broiler by building a fire on the grate of the fire pit and enclosing the bottom with aluminum foil. With a little redneck ingenuity we can find a way to cook anything in the woods.:lol:

njredneck
03-25-2014, 05:55
Is there any way to get some pallets to Lower Forge? The next episode of Pineys Burning Pallets or As the Pallet Burns or Between Two Pallets just seems wrong without pallets.

I could cut a couple in half and use them as floor boards in the canoes.

Pretbek
03-25-2014, 08:10
Thanks in advance to all the people providing canoes, paddles, shuttle services and the like. This land lubber appreciates it.

What is the best way for me to get a PFD for this weekend? Could I rent one from somewhere?

Dutch theme eh? ...Wooden shoes float. And burn. I don't have any though, otherwise I could use those as my PFD, strap a bunch of clogs around my chest.
Concerning beverages, I will stick to tea and Booskerdoo filtrates, but knock yourself out on the Ketel One.
Oh and I'm OK with vitamin Aw-S B.

P-47ChowHound
03-25-2014, 08:23
But the question remains. Do you want your vitamin Aw-S B grilled or pan fried?

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 08:28
Thanks in advance to all the people providing canoes, paddles, shuttle services and the like. This land lubber appreciates it.

What is the best way for me to get a PFD for this weekend? Could I rent one from somewhere?

Dutch theme eh? ...Wooden shoes float. And burn. I don't have any though, otherwise I could use those as my PFD, strap a bunch of clogs around my chest.
Concerning beverages, I will stick to tea and Booskerdoo filtrates, but knock yourself out on the Ketel One.
Oh and I'm OK with vitamin Aw-S B.

Technically, NJ state law does not require people over the age of 12 to wear PFDs while on the water, though there should be one per person in the boat that is accessible in case of emergencies. It seems to be a gray area when it comes to canoes/kayaks:

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/marine/021606-boating-safety-manual.pdf

Unless someone knows something I don't. They didn't really talk much about paddle craft when I took my boater safety course. We concentrated on sail, motor, and PWCs.

Ratdog
03-25-2014, 09:28
I will report back on PFD status.
Certain I have 2, will check to see if more are available.

Pretbek
03-25-2014, 11:37
But the question remains. Do you want your vitamin Aw-S B grilled or pan fried?

Yes.





___

njredneck
03-25-2014, 12:00
I have 4 pfd's

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 12:11
What is the best way for me to get a PFD for this weekend? Could I rent one from somewhere?

I'll pick up some adult-size water wings from the dollar store for you. Are you okay with this Hello Kitty-themed set?:rolleyes:
82434

I have two Type II PFDs and four type IV throwable PFDs. The type IV say they're approved for use in canoes and kayaks, but that NJ web site says boats up to 26 feet are required to have a Type I, II, II or V for each person aboard.

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 12:19
I have two Type II PFDs and four type IV throwable PFDs. The type IV say they're approved for use in canoes and kayaks, but that NJ web site says boats up to 26 feet are required to have a Type I, II, II or V for each person aboard.

Further clarification from the NJ official site:

Sailboats And Manually Propelled Vessels

Personal Flotation Devices: Vessels less than 16 feet in length, and all canoes and kayaks, regardless of length, must carry one Type I, II, III, or V Coast Guard approved personal flotation device for each person on board. They must be readily accessible and of an appropriate size for the intended wearer. Vessels 16 feet and over, except canoes and kayaks, must have one Type I, II, III, or V Coast Guard-approved wearable device for each person aboard, plus at least one Type IV throwable device.The throwable device must be kept where it is immediately available. Wearable devices must be of an appropriate size for the intended wearer.

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 12:20
But the question remains. Do you want your vitamin Aw-S B grilled or pan fried?

Well, the ultralighters don't want to carry a fry pan so they go with grilled Aw S B. However, I'm not eating bacon by itself - need eggs. And it's pretty hard to grill eggs so the fry pan is coming anyway. It's ultralight.

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 12:21
Further clarification from the NJ official site:

Sailboats And Manually Propelled Vessels

Personal Flotation Devices: Vessels less than 16 feet in length, and all canoes and kayaks, regardless of length, must carry one Type I, II, III, or V Coast Guard approved personal flotation device for each person on board. They must be readily accessible and of an appropriate size for the intended wearer. Vessels 16 feet and over, except canoes and kayaks, must have one Type I, II, III, or V Coast Guard-approved wearable device for each person aboard, plus at least one Type IV throwable device.The throwable device must be kept where it is immediately available. Wearable devices must be of an appropriate size for the intended wearer.


It also says canoes and kayaks are exempt from the requirement for a Type IV throwable device.

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 12:28
Further clarification from the NJ official site:

Sailboats And Manually Propelled Vessels

Personal Flotation Devices: Vessels less than 16 feet in length, and all canoes and kayaks, regardless of length, must carry one Type I, II, III, or V Coast Guard approved personal flotation device for each person on board. They must be readily accessible and of an appropriate size for the intended wearer. Vessels 16 feet and over, except canoes and kayaks, must have one Type I, II, III, or V Coast Guard-approved wearable device for each person aboard, plus at least one Type IV throwable device.The throwable device must be kept where it is immediately available. Wearable devices must be of an appropriate size for the intended wearer.




It also says canoes and kayaks are exempt from the requirement for a Type IV throwable device.

Yep, that would seem to be correct. Appropriate section in red above.

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 12:40
My canoe is set for PFDs (unless a third person rides in my canoe). Sports Authority sells a four-pack of Type II PFDs for $38.99. Not sure if they're available in-store.

http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12640931&cp=717576&parentPage=family

West Marine sells individual Type II PFDs for $8.99.

http://www.westmarine.com/west-marine--type-ii-near-shore-buoyant-vests--P008_240_001_004

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 13:04
My canoe is set for PFDs (unless a third person rides in my canoe). Sports Authority sells a four-pack of Type II PFDs for $38.99. Not sure if they're available in-store.

http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12640931&cp=717576&parentPage=family

West Marine sells individual Type II PFDs for $8.99.

http://www.westmarine.com/west-marine--type-ii-near-shore-buoyant-vests--P008_240_001_004

We should be good, unless someone else joins up.

PFDs:

SS has 2
NJR has 4
Ratdog has 2

Total = 8

Attending:

NJRedneck + 2 (HLJ and guest)
SilvrSurfr
Ratdog
SilentOrpheus
P-47
Pretbek

Total = 8

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 13:06
Follow up question:

NJRedneck - is your friend that's coming along in a hammock, or tent?

Might dictate what we need to do as far as camp sites. Don't know if sites 4 & 5 will give us enough trees for 8 people. Then again, it might not be enough for 7 either. May need to either grab 6, or just spread out and hope no one cares.

njredneck
03-25-2014, 13:36
Follow up question:

NJRedneck - is your friend that's coming along in a hammock, or tent?

Might dictate what we need to do as far as camp sites. Don't know if sites 4 & 5 will give us enough trees for 8 people. Then again, it might not be enough for 7 either. May need to either grab 6, or just spread out and hope no one cares.

He will be hanging may bring tent as a back up.
As it is now I only reserved for 2 people not sure what SS reserved as far as number of people. That being said with 8 people we probably should get 1 more site to bring the total paid to the right amount. $5 is less than $7 to change reservation if they charge fee to add people.

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 13:49
I reserved for 2 people. We can add people when we pick up our permits. We should probably grab site 6.

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 13:56
I reserved for 2 people. We can add people when we pick up our permits. We should probably grab site 6.

We can either grab site 6, which is the next site over (just down the little embankment) from 4 & 5, or it might be better to actually grab 7. That one had more spots to hang, technically.

Either will do - and I doubt we'll have much company regardless.

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 13:58
Oh, who's collecting car info? Probably a good idea to make sure it's listed, especially for those of us leaving cars at Atsion (are they open yet?)

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 14:13
Oh, who's collecting car info? Probably a good idea to make sure it's listed, especially for those of us leaving cars at Atsion (are they open yet?)

Atsion opens April 1st. Send car info, license plate, make & model via PM to me.

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 15:03
Here's a better map of the hiking shortcut to Atsion I was talking about in post #152. You can clearly see bridge out on Old Lower Forge Road.

http://www.mappery.com/map-of/Lower-Forge-camp-area-map

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 15:09
Here's a better map of the hiking shortcut to Atsion I was talking about in post #152. You can clearly see bridge out on Old Lower Forge Road.

http://www.mappery.com/map-of/Lower-Forge-camp-area-map

Interesting. I totally missed post #152 - had to go back and check what you were referencing.

I'd be up for some recon on saturday, assuming we get to camp with time to spare. While cutting a few miles off is nice when time is a crunch, I'd more think that it would be fun to check out a road/trail that isn't used anymore. And what better time to do it then now, when there aren't ticks to contend with, if it's a little bushy.

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 15:50
Since it's technically spring, and SS presented a motion for Dutch beverages - I will happily provide juniper based Dutch libations, if so desired. Combined with fresh limes, t'would be a treat.

Any interest?

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 15:57
The weather forecast for this weekend seems to be fluctuating a bit, but we're a bit far out for an accurate forecast. I'm seeing 60% to 70% chance of rain Saturday, partly cloudy Sunday. Are there any fair weather campers who are gonna bail at the slightest hint of inclement weather? Let us know now as it may affect logistics.

I'm gonna pack my two Guide Gear 12x12 tarps for group shelter. They're not very waterproof, but then again, we can have a fire and I won't care if they get a few holes in them. A few holes are not going to affect their reliability in any way.

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 16:02
The weather forecast for this weekend seems to be fluctuating a bit, but we're a bit far out for an accurate forecast. I'm seeing 60% to 70% chance of rain Saturday, partly cloudy Sunday. Are there any fair weather campers who are gonna bail at the slightest hint of inclement weather? Let us know now as it may affect logistics.

I'm gonna pack my two Guide Gear 12x12 tarps for group shelter. They're not very waterproof, but then again, we can have a fire and I won't care if they get a few holes in them. A few holes are not going to affect their reliability in any way.

That did flip around, didn't it? I looked yesterday morning, and it was 30% chance of rain early on Saturday, cloudy but no rain at night, partly sunny Sunday.

Gonna be a chilly day on the water ...

Ratdog
03-25-2014, 16:43
did someone just book site 6?
i am logged in trying to lock it up

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 16:56
did someone just book site 6?
i am logged in trying to lock it up

Not I.

Maybe we'll have company?

Ratdog
03-25-2014, 16:57
should I grab 3 or 7?

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 16:57
Definitely 7.

Don't think 3 has any trees.

Ratdog
03-25-2014, 17:06
Site 6 reserved.
(was a browser snafu)

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 17:14
Since it's technically spring, and SS presented a motion for Dutch beverages - I will happily provide juniper based Dutch libations, if so desired. Combined with fresh limes, t'would be a treat.

Any interest?

You don't need to ask me.

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 17:16
You don't need to ask me.

I know. I was being nice and polling the rest of the group. ;) I'm packing out, so no need to bring enough for many if only 2 are interested.

Pretbek
03-25-2014, 17:18
I just checked the forecast and it looks like it will be a canoe front coming through, heavy food precipitation and 100% chance of fun.

njredneck
03-25-2014, 17:19
Since it's technically spring, and SS presented a motion for Dutch beverages - I will happily provide juniper based Dutch libations, if so desired. Combined with fresh limes, t'would be a treat.

Any interest?

I'll give it a try.

njredneck
03-25-2014, 17:22
I know. I was being nice and polling the rest of the group. ;) I'm packing out, so no need to bring enough for many if only 2 are interested.

We will happily carry out any extra beverage you bring to keep your pack light Sunday.:jj:

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 17:26
We will happily carry out any extra beverage you bring to keep your pack light Sunday.:jj:

My thoughts exactly; you have no worries whatsoever about pack weight, SilentOrpheus.

silentorpheus
03-25-2014, 17:38
We will happily carry out any extra beverage you bring to keep your pack light Sunday.:jj:


My thoughts exactly; you have no worries whatsoever about pack weight, SilentOrpheus.

Sniff, sniff … you guys are the best. Always looking out. :lol:

And to be clear, I'm not talking about actual stuff from Dutch-land. I'm just talking some really great craft made gin. You know me - I always have something fun up my sleeve.

So, about that lobster …

njredneck
03-25-2014, 17:44
So, about that lobster …

You bring it we will cook it. They can be cooked right on the grate.

P-47ChowHound
03-25-2014, 18:31
Since it's technically spring, and SS presented a motion for Dutch beverages - I will happily provide juniper based Dutch libations, if so desired. Combined with fresh limes, t'would be a treat.

Any interest?


I you bring it, I will drink it. Save a touch for the walk out. You know case of snake bite or any other medical emergency. :) No complaints from last meeting.

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 19:08
So the plan is for everyone to meet at Atsion at 10:30 am. Not sure if we can get all the gear into Ratdog's truck, plus ferry the humans to Hampton Furnace.

Ratdog
03-25-2014, 21:09
If everything doesn't fit in one trip, then we can make 2. No worries.

The road back to Hampton Furnace only has one section that can get muddy if the road floods over.
Other than that it is fine for 2 wheel drive. No worse than getting back to Batona.

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 22:24
Just watched every YouTube clip ever made on paddling the Batsto and it didn't take long. Not much footage of the Hampton Furnace-Lower Forge section, but it looks really narrow, maybe 10 ft. wide or less. Quaker Bridge to Batsto Village looks like tons of fun with great views. I can't wait to actually be inside a cedar swamp - when hiking we usually only see them from a distance.

I'm gonna try to make a video trip report this time (something none of us have done in the last umpteen trips to the Pine Barrens). We will make the ultimate Hampton Lake-to-Batsto Village paddling trip report, cause there aren't any good ones out there. Trip report starts at Atsion parking lot so make sure you prepare answers for the following questions: Who-what-where-when-why? And you'll also be expected to report on your water vehicle, its capacities, etc.

Now, I should probably look at YouTube clips on paddling strokes, but they are so boring. I've been canoeing for 40 years and still don't know any strokes (and I've taken lessons). I steer my canoe by brute strength!

The only thing worse than watching paddling tutorials would be swimming tutorials. Well, there are probably things a lot worse than that.

For you paddlers, don't forget to pack a lunch for Sunday. We'll find a nice beach and chill for a few.

SilvrSurfr
03-25-2014, 22:26
How are we on firewood? I got the two bags I mentioned.

Ratdog
03-25-2014, 23:31
It is very narrow near the Furnace and on down to the Jersey Central RR and a bit below there.
After that it opens up.

You'll be wishing it was 10ft wide when we start.
Less than a 100yds down from the put in there are some logs in the water and I don't think it's even 10ft wide at that point where it makes a turn.

Paddling strokes, a pitch, a draw and maybe the J and you are good to go.
I like to be as quiet as possible and the Pitch Stroke is good for that.

I have plenty of wood, just depends on how much I get loaded into the truck.
If I have to put one of the canoes in the bed, I will be somewhat limited.

Tomorrow the prep work begins, getting the boats out of winter storage, getting the racks on the truck, digging out the straps, finding the PFDs and paddles, etc. .

Working on a google map:
https://goo.gl/maps/6pzGK

P-47ChowHound
03-26-2014, 05:14
We are going to need a bigger truck to match this.

82508 82507


Submitted for your consideration by Assistant, to Chief UpSide Down fire starter and flame wizzard Njredneck

njredneck
03-26-2014, 05:24
We are going to need a bigger truck to match this.

82508 82507


Submitted for your consideration by Assistant, to Chief UpSide Down fire starter and flame wizzard Njredneck

Would not need UQ next to that fire.:)

Pretbek
03-26-2014, 08:12
Would not need UQ next to that fire.:)

No, but you do need a helmet. The top 1/3 of the pallets fell down shortly after that second photo was taken.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 10:17
Working on a google map:
https://goo.gl/maps/6pzGK

So the sherpas are bringing the gear up Old Lower Forge Road? Very clever. That could reduce the distance we have to lug the gear considerably.

Are you going to be able to reconnoiter Old Lower Forge Road and see if it's a viable road?

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 10:24
That's the plan for this afternoon. Grab lunch and the dogs and go for a drive.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 10:32
That's the plan for this afternoon. Grab lunch and the dogs and go for a drive.

I should say that this shortcut will eliminate having to walk the gear in at all. We just paddle across the river and grab the gear!

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 10:45
Did you get much snow down there Ratdog? We only got about an inch at the Jersey Shore.

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 16:49
We got about an inch of snow, most of it gone now.
The Pine Barrens were beautiful today. Some snow, much wind, trees falling, snow whipping through the trees like ghosts.

The dogs and I got a couple miles in on the sandy stuff.

As for the recon;
I checked the Sherpa route (Quakerbridge Rd to Old Lower Forge Rd) to the old bridge over the Batsto. It's gone now. I figured as much.
I'll double check the paddle time from camp to that spot, thinking it's less than 15 minutes.

The drive is easy, 2 wheel drive not a problem.
Could actually leave a car there for anyone needing to exit early Sunday.
You would just need a water taxi ride over there.

The northern routes into Lower Forge are monster mud bogging truck routes only.
Still, I took my truck down Hay Rd to Lower Forge-Hampton road from the Furnace and on down to the railroad.
A ride not for the faint of heart. And for sure you would want someone with you to pull you out, unless you're just nuts. :)

No doubt the normal route in via Quaker Bridge to Lower Forge is still good but I didn't have a chance to check it.
The other routes in are via Caranza/Batona area.
Since we will all be at Atsion, thought I'd check the closer routes first.

Tomorrow I'll probably zip out and just double check the Quaker Bridge run just to make sure there are no surprises.
Most of these roads are well traveled by Jeeps but every once in a while a tree drops or the Rangers close off some section.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 17:08
We got about an inch of snow, most of it gone now.
The Pine Barrens were beautiful today. Some snow, much wind, trees falling, snow whipping through the trees like ghosts.

The dogs and I got a couple miles in on the sandy stuff.

As for the recon;
I checked the Sherpa route to the old bridge over Springers Brook. It's gone now. I figured as much.
I'll double check the paddle time from camp to that spot, thinking it's less than 15 minutes.

The drive is easy, 2 wheel drive not a problem.
Could actually leave a car there for anyone needing to exit early Sunday.
You would just need a water taxi ride over there.

The northern routes into Lower Forge are monster mud bogging truck routes only.
Still, I took my truck down Hampton Furnace - Lower Forge road from the Furnace to the RailRoad.
A ride not for the faint of heart. And for sure you would want someone with you to pull you out, unless you're just nuts. :)

No doubt the normal route in via Quaker Bridge to Old Lower Forge is still good but I didn't have a chance to check it.
The other routes in are via Caranza/Batona area.
Since we will all be at Atsion, thought I'd check the closer routes first.

Tomorrow I'll probably zip out and just double check the Quaker Bridge run just to make sure there are no surprises.
Most of these roads are well traveled by Jeeps but every once in a while a tree drops or the Rangers close off some section.

I'm confused. I thought your sherpa route was down Old Lower Forge Road. Were you considering another sherpa route too?

Springers Brook at the railroad looks almost as far from Lower Forge as Hampton Furnace. Am I misreading the map?

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 17:25
No you are not.
But the maps aren't completely accurate.

I changed my post to reflect map info.

Technically, Springers Brook and the Batsto run into each other and meander about, at lower water levels, you have to stay w/ the Batsto, at higher water levels you can paddle Springers Brook, which most people think is just part of the Batsto. There are a bunch of swamps, islands and ponds. It was for this reason that the earthen dam was built, which is what we now call Old Lower Forge Road. The whole area north used to be underwater while the forges were firing.

Anyway, when you take Quaker Bridge from Atsion and then make a left on Old Lower Forge Road, it dead ends at water. We'll call that the Batsto.
That is an easy drive, you can leave your car there (at your own risk) and it's a short paddle from camp.
Otherwise, to drive near Lower Forge Campground, you have to 1) come in from Caranza area or 2) take Quaker Bridge Rd all the way to Quaker Bridge and then head north on Lower Forge Road until you hit the "No Motor Vehicles" sign.

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 17:36
Oh, and I should mention, on the way into Hampton Furnace, there is a big bog on the left near Deep Run.

While driving past, I spooked a Bald Eagle perched on the edge of the bog and watch him lift into the air and fly against the gusting wind out over the bog. Stunning, to have been that close to an eagle and watch it fly was a powerful and rewarding sight to behold.

silentorpheus
03-26-2014, 17:42
So the plan would be to bring all the gear to the west bank of the Batsto, on Old Lower Forge Road? Meaning we'd need to paddle to camp, pick up all the gear on the west bank, and then get it across to the East side? Or would the gear be brought down to Quaker Bridge and up Lower Forge Road to the South end of the Camp for us to get once we arrive at camp?


And then, in the morning, we could ferry P-47 and me (whether we leave together or separately) back to the West bank so that we could hike Old Lower Forge Road to Quaker Bridge Road, to Atsion?


Just trying to create some order out of the chaos that is my understanding today.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 18:58
So the plan would be to bring all the gear to the west bank of the Batsto, on Old Lower Forge Road? Meaning we'd need to paddle to camp, pick up all the gear on the west bank, and then get it across to the East side?

Yes - bring all gear to The West bank. This will be a lot easier than lugging all that gear 1/3 to 1/2 mile from the Lower Forge parking lot.


And then, in the morning, we could ferry P-47 and me (whether we leave together or separately) back to the West bank so that we could hike Old Lower Forge Road to Quaker Bridge Road, to Atsion?

And yes, though I probably shouldn't speak for the reconnoitering scout. And if you and P-47Chowhound were too lazy to hike to Atsion, youz twoz could arrive a little early on Saturday and leave one of your cars at Old Lower Forge Road (at your own risk).

I kinda doubt a dead-end road would be a high-traffic area at night in the Pine Barrens. And if your car alarm goes off, you'll probably hear it!

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 19:04
Will report back after recon tomorrow but I think the answer will be yes, west side might be just a 5 min paddle.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 19:07
Will report back after recon tomorrow but I think the answer will be yes, west side might be just a 5 min paddle.

I doubt it's even five minutes. I think I've seen where the bridge used to be (while hiking into Lower Forge) and I doubt it's more than a few hundred yards from the main campsite. I chased a raccoon down there once (he wouldn't pose for a closeup) while gathering firewood.

silentorpheus
03-26-2014, 19:13
On any of the maps that have been linked so far, where exactly is the "lower forge parking lot"?

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 19:29
On any of the maps that have been linked so far, where exactly is the "lower forge parking lot"?

It ain't on a map. You know how we normally come north up Lower Forge Road to the Lower Forge turnoff? Well, if we ever actually took the Batona Trail it would pass close by that parking lot. It's to the east and a little bit south of the turnoff, just a few hundred yards.

Only reason I ever noticed it is 'cause I was hiking a solo and ran into a boatload of hunters there. They were all dressed in orange and I felt like a deer dressed in my earth tones. The parking lot is not, to my recollection, accessible from Lower Forge Road. They must come in from the northeast to reach that parking lot.

Deadphans
03-26-2014, 20:02
Ss...I am looking forward to that video. I hope that video has a segment on the cedar swamp :-)

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 20:11
Ss...I am looking forward to that video. I hope that video has a segment on the cedar swamp :-)

Wish I could get the nerve up to hang in a cedar swamp; some of the creepiest noises I've ever heard came out of Pine Barrens cedar swamps. But one thing I've noticed in my investigation of cedar swamps is that the widowmakers aren't limbs on the tree: it's the whole dang tree! That's why I'd be hesitant to hang in a cedar swamp.

silentorpheus
03-26-2014, 20:20
It ain't on a map. You know how we normally come north up Lower Forge Road to the Lower Forge turnoff? Well, if we ever actually took the Batona Trail it would pass close by that parking lot. It's to the east and a little bit south of the turnoff, just a few hundred yards.

Only reason I ever noticed it is 'cause I was hiking a solo and ran into a boatload of hunters there. They were all dressed in orange and I felt like a deer dressed in my earth tones. The parking lot is not, to my recollection, accessible from Lower Forge Road. They must come in from the northeast to reach that parking lot.

Ah, okay. That's what I was wondering ... It's south of the camp.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 20:35
While driving past, I spooked a Bald Eagle perched on the edge of the bog and watch him lift into the air and fly against the gusting wind out over the bog. Stunning, to have been that close to an eagle and watch it fly was a powerful and rewarding sight to behold.

I've yet to see a Bald Eagle in the wild. Heck, I get all excited 'cause the ospreys made a comeback in my town about 5 or 10 years ago (after being wiped out by DDT). I can watch 'em all day!

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 20:47
I will be bringing one Tenkara fishing setup and maybe an ultralight spinning rig.

If anyone wants to fish, don't forget to grab your license.

I grabbed a danged $22.50 license, not that I have a working rod or any idea of what kind of bait/lure to use. I don't even know what kind of fish they have in the Batsto. Well, anyway, maybe we'll be able to add a little protein to the dinner menu.

Did a quick search last night and looks like there's catfish, pickerel, bluegill, crappie, perch, large and smallmouth bass, striped bass (I'm sure not keeper size) and striped bass hybrid (wiper). I also read an interesting article about how the fish ladder at Batsto Lake was supposed to restore alewife and herring runs to the Batsto.

silentorpheus
03-26-2014, 21:17
I totally want to check out your tenkara setup. Used to fly fish every summer in the streams of Vermont with my grandfather. Haven't done it in 20 years (bout as long as it's been since I canoed).

I'm not buying a license, but I may try a cast or two. :)

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 21:38
Well ok then, tenkara it is!
Didn't know about the fishladder at Batsto, very cool.

I'm figuring panfish but anything else is a bonus.

Will work on the map some more, have to review some GPS tracks but the essentials are there.

Pretbek
03-26-2014, 21:41
OK, the last that I understood for my directions was "go East to NJ, stop the car near the Atsion Ranger station", which I can find. Has that changed and if so, how?
You guys thoroughly confused me with the discussion on where to go and why. You gotta simplify it for this non-native.

Already I can't follow you, imagine what it will be like after some consumption of the juniper berry spirits! Hopefully it will inspire you to more pallet ballads, those I COULD follow and enjoyed them too.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 21:42
Well ok then, tenkara it is!
Didn't know about the fishladder at Batsto, very cool.

I'm figuring panfish but anything else is a bonus.

Will work on the map some more, have to review some GPS tracks but the essentials are there.

You got a non-tenkara rig? I just wanna catch a fish without learning a new skill. I don't mind learning a new skill - but I prefer the fish.

silentorpheus
03-26-2014, 21:49
OK, the last that I understood for my directions was "go East to NJ, stop the car near the Atsion Ranger station", which I can find. Has that changed and if so, how?
You guys thoroughly confused me with the discussion on where to go and why. You gotta simplify it for this non-native.

Already I can't follow you, imagine what it will be like after some consumption of the juniper berry spirits! Hopefully it will inspire you to more pallet ballads, those I COULD follow and enjoyed them too.

No change in that. We're just getting creative with the eventual drop spot for our gear, and how us hikers will be heading out Sunday morning.

Just put "Atsion Ranger Station" into google maps, and it comes right up. Follow the directions. It's maybe 10-15 minutes (if that) further south on 206 from where you turn off to get to Batona Camp.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 22:02
Just put "Atsion Ranger Station" into google maps, and it comes right up. Follow the directions. It's maybe 10-15 minutes (if that) further south on 206 from where you turn off to get to Batona Camp.

I got scolded yesterday when I called the Batsto Village office. I asked, "When does the Atsion Ranger station open this year?"

The lady scolded me, "Atsion is not a ranger station. There are no rangers. It's just a camping office," she said.

"Umm, and when does it open?" I asked. "April 1st," she replied.

silentorpheus
03-26-2014, 22:09
I got scolded yesterday when I called the Batsto Village office. I asked, "When does the Atsion Ranger station open this year?"

The lady scolded me, "Atsion is not a ranger station. There are no rangers. It's just a camping office," she said.

"Umm, and when does it open?" I asked. "April 1st," she replied.

Very well.

Regardless, Google maps has it place marked as "Atsion Ranger Station". I'm guessing that if you put "Atsion Camping Office" into google, you won't find what your looking for, no matter what miss sandy pants says. :rolleyes:

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 22:29
You guys thoroughly confused me with the discussion on where to go and why. You gotta simplify it for this non-native.

Already I can't follow you, imagine what it will be like after some consumption of the juniper berry spirits! Hopefully it will inspire you to more pallet ballads, those I COULD follow and enjoyed them too.

I can understand your confusion. The logistics of cars and boats haven't changed. I'm just really excited about the possibility of just paddling across the river and picking up our gear on an old abandoned road a few hundred yards away on the other side of the river. How cool is that?

It's no fun schlepping firewood a 1/2 mile to our site after a long day paddling (the previous plan). We had a slackpacking trip to Mullica River a while back and it took a few trips to carry the gear from the sherpa drop-off point a mile from the campsite. Not fun. This plan using Old Lower Forge Road as the sherpa (Ratdog's vehicle) route is just genius.

And it also is a shortcut exit route for SilentOrpheus & P47-Chowhound to cut their hike out in half, or even possibly leave a vehicle across the river and drive out. So I'm pretty excited at this discovery.

This is what "have sherpas, will travel" means. All the thrills of camping in a wilderness area, but not having to carry the gear very far. The comforts of home brought to your campfire - the opposite of roughing it.

So forgive our excitement at this new sherpa route!

silentorpheus
03-26-2014, 22:37
Alright, so back to the Menu ...

From what I gather we have the following suggested:

Dinner

Bacon
Brats
Shrimp & Bread
London Broil? (how is this being cooked)
Possible Lobster (If I can find some that's not an arm and a leg - I can handle one or the other)
Veggies

Breakfast

Coffee
Bacon

?
...


Am I missing anything? Are we missing anything?

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 22:41
You got a non-tenkara rig? I just wanna catch a fish without learning a new skill. I don't mind learning a new skill - but I prefer the fish.

Of course, will bring an ultra light setup.


I got scolded yesterday when I called the Batsto Village office. I asked, "When does the Atsion Ranger station open this year?"

The lady scolded me, "Atsion is not a ranger station. There are no rangers. It's just a camping office," she said.

"Umm, and when does it open?" I asked. "April 1st," she replied.

HAHA, yeah they hate that.
It's just, well I won't put their names here, but one of 2 women that work there and the tour guide on certain days/times.
Rangers Station has all the gizmos and such for keeping campers safe/watched/secured/whatever.
Lebanon, I mean Brendan Byrne, has a Ranger Station but it's a funding thing whether that is open or not. Not up to date on the latest

Regarding coming in from the NorthEast to Lower Forge, High Crossing Road was blocked off when I was back there last time. Can't take the old shortcuts from Shamong to Tabernacle anymore. Haven't checked Bulldozer or some of the "old" roads. There is always a way but I have to pass directions on to the Sherpa who might be a High School aged kid and I'm not telling him left at the pine tree, right at the mud hole, right at the next pine tree, etc. So if it ain't simple, I need another plan. Hence, the crick side sherpa stash. Since the water level is ok, it kills a couple birds with one stone.

And yes, the plan is, was, and shall be to meet at Atsion "Camping Office", aka the Atsion Mansion and we'll go from there.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 22:43
Got a real kick out of this thread where a Bigfooter is trying to figure out how to get his hundreds of pounds of gear to Lower Forge, with Kayak Karl schooling him on how he's really a car camper.

http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/lower-forge-camping.8657/

If this is the same douche I remember, he also came on HammockForums asking some of the same questions. On the weekend he wanted to Bigfoot, I remember hiking north on the Mullica River trail and seeing cooler drag marks for miles!

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 22:46
Alright, so back to the Menu ...

From what I gather we have the following suggested:

Dinner

Brats
Shrimp & Bread
London Broil? (how is this being cooked)
Possible Lobster (If I can find some that's not an arm and a leg - I can handle one or the other)
Veggies

Breakfast

Coffee

?
...


Am I missing anything? Are we missing anything?

Oil or no oil for breakfast when cooking the eggs?
BACON !! and it really should be cooked over the fire, I think we can all agree on that :D
I will have 6 cans of Spam, just in case anyone wants to share.

Bacon wrapped shrimp?
Bacon wrapped scallops?
Bacon wrapped bacon?


Oh and keep an eye on the weather, we may get some serious wet for part of the day.
Make sure you have good rain gear and a change of clothes.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 22:48
Breakfast

Coffee

?
...


Am I missing anything? Are we missing anything?

Looks like breakfast needs some fill in. I'm gonna bring a small IMUSA fry pan and a medium for eggs/bacon.

We also need firewood.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 22:53
Okay I'm bringing a lb. of bacon, RatDog. Enough of this bacon talk. I'm gonna marinate the shrimp in lime, garlic and olive oil and wrap them in bacon. And unless somebody volunteers, I might grab a few scallops 'cause nothing tastes better than scallops wrapped in bacon. And when I say a "few" scallops, I mean very few - they're $17 a pound around here.

silentorpheus
03-26-2014, 22:55
Okay I'm bringing a lb. of bacon, RatDog. Enough of this bacon talk. I'm gonna marinate the shrimp in lime, garlic and olive oil and wrap them in bacon. And unless somebody volunteers, I might grab a few scallops 'cause nothing tastes better than scallops wrapped in bacon. And when I say a "few" scallops, I mean very few - they're $17 a pound around here.

So we really gonna do the 'surf' trifecta? Shrimp, scallops, AND lobster? :D

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 22:58
There are several places along 206 between the 206/70 (Red Lion) circle and Atsion that are selling firewood.
Some racks that are $20 a piece. Just have to notice them before you blow by them.

Then there's the 8 cords behind my house that need splitting. (nephews are slacking off)
But I will throw 2 "bags" in the back of the truck. Help weigh down a canoe.

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 22:59
So we really gonna do the 'surf' trifecta? Shrimp, scallops, AND lobster? :D

Well if we do, is that going to cut into the appetizers?
I gotta feeling I'm gonna be hungry Sat night.
AND hollow leg Joe is gonna be there, so we should make sure we have plenty of food.

silentorpheus
03-26-2014, 23:01
Well if we do, is that going to cut into the appetizers?
I gotta feeling I'm gonna be hungry Sat night.
AND hollow leg Joe is gonna be there, so we should make sure we have plenty of food.

Do we have a plan for appetizers :confused:

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 23:04
Do we have a plan for appetizers :confused:

Well, brats and london broil take a while to cook, so I thought seafood was the appetizer - shrimp, scallops and lobster.

Then the veggies, brats and london broil.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 23:08
Suggested Lower Forge Gustatory Agenda

1600 hours - start fire.
1700 hours - appetizers - shrimp, scallops, lobster. P-47Chowhound bringing pepperoni and cheese. I'm gonna bring a couple of cans of artichokes, 'cause I love artichokes.
1800 hours - Veggies, brats and broil.

If sherpas can have gear at Old Lower Forge Road dropoff by 1545 hours (3:45 pm) I think this plan works.

silentorpheus
03-26-2014, 23:10
Well, brats and london broil take a while to cook, so I thought seafood was the appetizer - shrimp, scallops and lobster.

Then the veggies, brats and london broil.

Alright. So let's do Shrimp & bread and Angels on Horseback (bacon wrapped scallops) as the app.

Brats, Broil, and other seafood for entree, with veggie side.

Breakfast we're looking at Bacon, maybe Spam, and coffee so far.

Ratdog
03-26-2014, 23:14
I've got plenty of eggs.
They should still be good, been sitting in the back of the truck since Batona.
But's it's been pretty cold, right?

I'll bring some eggs.

We need some bread to go with that stuff.

SilvrSurfr
03-26-2014, 23:17
I'm bringing Italian Bread.