View Full Version : First complaint about the BB?
trigger hurt
06-15-2009, 13:31
Well, I don't know if this qualifies as a complaint or a concern, but here it is.
I've slept in my hammock over a dozen times since I got it. Usually, weekend trips with a few over nighters thrown in along the way. Something that I've noticed that I haven't noticed terribly with others.
The stock suspension webbing stretches. A lot. Friday, at lake murray, I hung my hammock as normal. tested it out, adjusted it and was satisfied it was the perfect height. Not to hard to get into, not too hard to get out of.
When I woke up saturday morning, I was considerably closer to the ground. Well, I've got the straps as high on the tree as I can reach (I am short) and the ridge line is as taught as I am comfortable with. I left the hammock alone and didn't adjust the suspension and sunday, I woke up about 6 inches from the ground.
Either I'm far more tubby than I suspected, or the straps stretch too much for my liking. Or, I'm too short to get them any higher on the tree. Has anyone had an issue like this? Did swapping out to a different strap resolve the issue?
Well, I'm bigger than you, but I had no problem with strap stretch. I didn't cinch down my slippery hitch one time and it started to slide, but no stretch. Maybe it was just an anomalous episode.
Cannibal
06-15-2009, 13:47
Which webbing did you get? I think he changed out a while back from the camo stuff to the black. The black is thinner and lighter, but I don't know what it's made of. The camo stuff is polyester and shouldn't stretch. Doesn't with my tubby butt anyway.
angrysparrow
06-15-2009, 13:58
I'm with the others - haven't seen any stretch from the stock webbing.
I think you've given us a clue, though...
...and the ridge line is as taught as I am comfortable with.
What was the distance between the trees you were hanging from? How much sag (approximate angle) was on the webbing?
I suspect that maybe you were hanging from trees that were farther apart than is optimal, and because you didn't compensate by hanging higher on the tree the suspension just dropped down to a normal sag angle. I could be wrong, though.
Ramblinrev
06-15-2009, 14:20
Or, I'm too short to get them any higher on the tree. Has anyone had an issue like this? Did swapping out to a different strap resolve the issue?
If you need to hang higher the solution is simple. Use a trekking pole if you have them, or find a stick and lift the loose strap higher onto the tree. I can get my straps up about 11' if I have to. I would usually look for other trees before doing that but if I needed to I could. Of course when the hang is that high a fair amount of slack has to be introduced intot he hang in order to be able to enter and exit the hammock. But that only means you will experience less initial drop when you get in. The ridgeline can still be taut (not sound producing tight) and you should not wake up much below where you started.
I experienced the same problem with my HH until I learned to hang higher than I thought I needed to and hang looser than I thought I should. Now I am pretty much where I went to sleep when I wake up unless the straps slip in the night.
trigger hurt
06-15-2009, 14:23
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2QAkBifgbJQ/SjVdFAtDHdI/AAAAAAAAAlU/ERydylKj3oI/s576/IMG_0016.JPG
That's the angle and the trees in question.
@cannibal - I have the black webbing. The straps themselves do not slide down the tree. There's always the initial settling in after hanging it up, but after that, the hammock doesn't move. I've actually tested that idea by marking the tree at the top of the strap with a sharpie. When I wake up, the straps are pretty much in the same place each time.
I just got my BB back in May but have had no problem with stretching. Are you putting that knot behind the ring buckle?
Ramblinrev
06-15-2009, 14:27
The picture is helpful. Looks reasonable to me. I would not expect a lot of initial drop upon entering if I am looking at the picture correctly. I don't own a BB so I can't comment on anything unique to that hammock, but in broad theory the hang looks good to me.
trigger hurt
06-15-2009, 14:31
I just got my BB back in May but have had no problem with stretching. Are you putting that knot behind the ring buckle?
There's two knots behind the buckles.
angrysparrow
06-15-2009, 14:35
Which fabric weight do you have? Double layer?
As RamblinRev stated, the hang looks fine. Unless you really are getting webbing stretch, stretch of the fabric is all that comes to mind.
trigger hurt
06-15-2009, 14:37
I have a double layer 1.7
warbonnetguy
06-15-2009, 14:58
the only thing i can think of is that you aren't tying the backup knot nice and tight to the back of the rings and some is sliding through before it finally settles. i hang in each one before it goes out, so would have noticed if i got a batch of nylon webbing or something.
miisterwright
06-15-2009, 15:06
It certainly sounds like the straps are slipping through the buckles until it hits the backup knot. When I tie a slippery half hitch behind a ring it usually about 6 inches from the ring. If the straps slip until it hits that hitch, that puts the hammock sitting way lower. Just tie the knot right up against the buckles. If it's something else I'd be very surprised.
It certainly sounds like the straps are slipping through the buckles until it hits the backup knot. When I tie a slippery half hitch behind a ring it usually about 6 inches from the ring. If the straps slip until it hits that hitch, that puts the hammock sitting way lower. Just tie the knot right up against the buckles. If it's something else I'd be very surprised.
Exactly my thoughts. I don't see any way that the webbing itself would stretch enough to make the hammock drop enough to notice. FWIW I have the current black webbing, not the camo webbing. The only time I've had the hammock drop was when I didn't properly secure the half hitch behind the tri-rings. As already mentioned it needs to be tight and butted right up to the buckles or it will slip.
warbonnetguy
06-15-2009, 18:56
yes, it should be tied so you're almost pulling it into the rings as you tighten it down. pull hard on the loop and toward the hammock.
Counselor
06-15-2009, 19:44
Any chance your straps are sliding down the tree from where you put them?
trigger hurt
06-15-2009, 21:08
This isn't a deal breaker for me. I'll swap out the suspension webbing and see what happens, but I am cinching the knot down onto the rings.
I use the usual stopper knot (I don't know the common name of it) and pull it tight against the tri-rings, then I tie another knot behind that one and pull it toward the first knot to hold the excess webbing. When I tie off the first stopper knot, I put most of my weight on it and it is pulled pretty tight against the rings.
If it were an issue with the knot settling in, wouldn't that go away after sleeping in the hammock for 8 or so hours? My drop in height occurs over a period of days until I'm practically inches from the ground.
I Splice
06-15-2009, 23:59
The stock suspension webbing stretches. A lot. Friday, at lake murray, I hung my hammock as normal. tested it out, adjusted it and was satisfied it was the perfect height. Not to hard to get into, not too hard to get out of.
When I woke up saturday morning, I was considerably closer to the ground. Well, I've got the straps as high on the tree as I can reach (I am short) and the ridge line is as taught as I am comfortable with. I left the hammock alone and didn't adjust the suspension and sunday, I woke up about 6 inches from the ground.
?
I've had that problem in the past with both a Speer and a Hennessey. Many mornings my butt was touching the ground. I've weighed between about 235 and 245 lbs during that time. The fabric on my first Speer hammock was starting to fail - tiny separations in the fabric between the rip-stop grid.
This is what I've done to solve it. I don't know for sure what fixed it but I think changing the tree huggers and using a heavier fabric for the hammock helped a lot:
I use wider, 1.5 inch, polypropylene webbing from Seattle Fabrics for the tree huggers
I made a hammock using 2.5 oz/yd nylon supplex from Ed Speer
I make at least one wrap all the way around the tree so that the tree huggers don't slip in the night
I use Dyneema lines to suspend the hammock
I do plenty of wraps to make sure that the Dyneema doesn't slip during the night
I don't have a problem with sagging during the night any more.
My drop in height occurs over a period of days until I'm practically inches from the ground.
This is only funny because of my weight, but is it possible the trees are just getting closer together? :lol:
sir White Wolf
06-16-2009, 02:28
All right Ill settle this question for ya.
I did see a problem with yer rig at the Hot Springs hang, I didnt say any thing cause I figured you would work it out on yer own.
But as a friend Ill lend you some of my worldly knowledge. ;)
RICEGRAVY Stop untying his straps when he is asleep! :lol:
trigger hurt
06-16-2009, 04:19
All right Ill settle this question for ya.
I did see a problem with yer rig at the Hot Springs hang, I didnt say any thing cause I figured you would work it out on yer own.
But as a friend Ill lend you some of my worldly knowledge. ;)
RICEGRAVY Stop untying his straps when he is asleep! :lol:
I sleep so well in it, I would not be surprised if he's doing that to me while I snooze away.
Schmitty
06-16-2009, 12:03
I've got the black webbing and no problem with stretch, but it will slowly drop if you don't put a good tight slippery half hitch tight against the triangles.
trigger hurt
06-16-2009, 12:56
I've got the black webbing and no problem with stretch, but it will slowly drop if you don't put a good tight slippery half hitch tight against the triangles.
Again. I have a good, tight slippery half hitch tight against the triangles. I understand the urge to keep suggesting this may be the cause, but one of the first things I learned about hanging this hammock was making sure the stopper knot was tied tight against the tri-ring buckles.
sir White Wolf
06-16-2009, 13:33
Ill look it over next time we hang
hangnout
06-16-2009, 13:45
two nights hanging with no adjustments. That probably is just the webbing stretching. In my experience every type of webbing I have used would have stretched over a two day hang. I have experimented with most of the polypro's and polyester straps from strapworks and the only one that may not have needed adjustment over a two night hang would have been the heavy duty polyester straps from Strapworks. Even those will have some stretch. I know that I have to adjust my daughters straps with the seatbelt webbing and she only weighs 40lbs.
Coldspring
06-16-2009, 21:02
I think they stretch to.
Switch to the amsteel blue line and I'll bet your hammock stays where it is supposed to be.
ricegravy
10-26-2009, 09:12
All right Ill settle this question for ya.
I did see a problem with yer rig at the Hot Springs hang, I didnt say any thing cause I figured you would work it out on yer own.
But as a friend Ill lend you some of my worldly knowledge. ;)
RICEGRAVY Stop untying his straps when he is asleep! :lol:
I sleep so well in it, I would not be surprised if he's doing that to me while I snooze away.
I just noticed this thread.
How silly :lol:
I would never do such a thing ;)
-Ricegravy
Well, I don't know if this qualifies as a complaint or a concern, but here it is.
I've slept in my hammock over a dozen times since I got it. Usually, weekend trips with a few over nighters thrown in along the way. Something that I've noticed that I haven't noticed terribly with others.
The stock suspension webbing stretches. A lot. Friday, at lake murray, I hung my hammock as normal. tested it out, adjusted it and was satisfied it was the perfect height. Not to hard to get into, not too hard to get out of.
When I woke up saturday morning, I was considerably closer to the ground. Well, I've got the straps as high on the tree as I can reach (I am short) and the ridge line is as taught as I am comfortable with. I left the hammock alone and didn't adjust the suspension and sunday, I woke up about 6 inches from the ground.
Either I'm far more tubby than I suspected, or the straps stretch too much for my liking. Or, I'm too short to get them any higher on the tree. Has anyone had an issue like this? Did swapping out to a different strap resolve the issue?
there is a factor you must consider on webbing stretch,the farther the distance between the tree's means more webbing is used,the greater the
distance the more stretch.i used the webbing that the warrbonet guy sells
on my travel hammock.it works great for me:cool:neo
warbonnetguy
10-26-2009, 11:12
it is polyester so it will stretch some. a little shouldn't be a problem though. it only becomes a problem when it's putting you on the ground or causeing you to hang alot higher.
neo is right though, more webbing out will mean more stretch, so it will be alot more on long spans.
Beast 71
10-26-2009, 11:26
... Either I'm far more tubby than I suspected, or the straps stretch too much for my liking. Or, I'm too short to get them any higher on the tree. Has anyone had an issue like this? Did swapping out to a different strap resolve the issue?
I'm nearly 300lbs and I don't stretch the webbing.
Which webbing did you get? I think he changed out a while back from the camo stuff to the black. The black is thinner and lighter, but I don't know what it's made of. The camo stuff is polyester and shouldn't stretch. Doesn't with my tubby butt anyway.
Mine is the black webbing and no stretch.
the only thing i can think of is that you aren't tying the backup knot nice and tight to the back of the rings and some is sliding through before it finally settles. ...
The only time it slipped on me was when the knot wasn't REALLY tight.
It certainly sounds like the straps are slipping through the buckles until it hits the backup knot. When I tie a slippery half hitch behind a ring it usually about 6 inches from the ring. If the straps slip until it hits that hitch, that puts the hammock sitting way lower. Just tie the knot right up against the buckles. If it's something else I'd be very surprised.
I agree!
yes, it should be tied so you're almost pulling it into the rings as you tighten it down. pull hard on the loop and toward the hammock.
I've done that and still have had it slip, now I pull on the slippery hitch as hard as I can, with both hands, then I tie a looser back up knot for the first back upknot.
Ramblin Rev gave me a tip to use treking poles to get straps higher up the trees. I don't use poles but I usually have canoe paddles when I camp and they work fine. Maybe you could use a stick if you don't have either. I hope that helps you.
Coldspring
10-26-2009, 11:38
I'm glad to see Warbonnet Guy admit it stretches. I think he has a little bit of perfectionism in him and is critical of his own gear, taking pride in his craftsmanship,...I like that.
When I hang from trees far apart, I end up lower...When the trees are closer together, I don't. I don't always take time to get out a compass and measure the angles, but I'm not sure how much it matters, it still stretches.
I ordered some heavier webbing to put on for next canoe season. If I use the Blackbird on a backpack trip, I'm just going to use the amsteel blue to save 3 oz. If I'm canoeing, I'll use the less-stretch webbing, which is probably several ounces heavier than Warbonnet's webbing.
biker650
10-26-2009, 13:55
I recomend buying some amsteel blue 1/8" and making two whoopie slings. This will take out the webbing problem wheather it is stretching or slipping. You will love the simplicity of the set up.
I recomend buying some amsteel blue 1/8" and making two whoopie slings. This will take out the webbing problem wheather it is stretching or slipping. You will love the simplicity of the set up.
+1 for a whoopie sling mod. I switched out my Traveler and Love it. Less weight, no stretch, no backup knot, no buckles, no biners. Solid and reliable. I'm kicking myself for waiting so long.
J_Squared
10-26-2009, 16:56
I too noticed this to be a problem only at maximum tree separation. Recently I was hanging from pretty much the only two trees around and they had to be at least 20 to 25' apart. I had to climb the trees to get the strap high enough for proper sag. I would say I experienced a couple inches of sag but I hung extra high to compensate because I anticipated it over such a long distance. Haven't had any problems hanging at a reasonable distance.
BTW we had 36 hours of driving rain on that trip starting right after I set up. The ground dwellers thought I was crazy for climbing trees and sleeping in a hammock with a tornado warning but I was the only one completely dry. In the morning they were much more interested in my hammock.
+1 for a whoopie sling mod. ............ Less weight, no stretch, no backup knot, no buckles, no biners. Solid and reliable. ....
+1 more for the Whoopie Sling. All of the above and no hardware.
MedicineMan
10-26-2009, 17:25
no stretch here
east_stingray
10-26-2009, 18:18
For those of you who use poles/paddles to push your straps up the tree,
1) How do you get them back down?
2) How do you manage to find two trees with no low branches? :D
trigger hurt
10-27-2009, 07:58
By the way, I meant to post on this forum a couple of months ago after the fall SEHHA.
Sir White Wolf looked at my stopper knot, gave the hammock a tug and nodded in approval. So, it's verified from a trustworthy source that my backup knot is sufficient and no slippage occurs.
Yet, I was still a little closer to the ground on sunday than I was on friday.
I'm not dissatisfied, and to call this a complaint is unfair, really. I may end up switching over to whoopie slings. Seems there's someone here selling them, and I love supporting cottage industry.
ricegravy
10-27-2009, 08:09
Oh god..... If you get whoopie slings, then I'm going to have to get them.......
Sir Rice, the follower.
bear bag hanger
10-27-2009, 08:43
My Warbonnet Traveler came with the black webbing. I've had problems with that sort of webbing in the past, so didn't even try them, swapped them out for polypro webbing I already had. I learned the hard way, there has to be a backup knot when using the cinch buckles he supplies. Never needed a backup knot with my ring buckle setup (I may change them out before my through hike on the FNST starting in about two weeks). Anyway, I still always get a little stretch from everything by morning. I've only used the new hammock for three nights, so that may go away as everything settles in.
ricegravy
10-27-2009, 08:56
there has to be a backup knot when using the cinch buckles he supplies.
Huh?
Never needed a backup knot with my ring buckle setup
Wha?
That all sounds backwards to me.
Tony the tiger told me that Brandon's cinch buckles are Grrrrreat!
-Sir Rice, the sardonic
warbonnetguy
10-27-2009, 11:45
there's old triangle rings, these need a backup knot, but they have been replaced with a cinch-type buckle.
with these you just need to stack the webbing on top of it's self and then no backup is needed. the reason is that the buckle is made for 1.25" webbing, so if you just pull to make an adjustment, the webbing kinda pulls into a "v" rather than being "stacked" just visually inspect that it's stacked when your done with your adjustment and no backup is needed. i've had alot of weight on them without any slippage. i'm working on getting a 1" version.
i'm working on getting a 1" version.
Any idea when these will be available?
trigger hurt
10-27-2009, 18:48
Oh god..... If you get whoopie slings, then I'm going to have to get them.......
Sir Rice, the follower.
We can order them this week from that opie character and have them by the time we go camping again. Things might be picking up at work and I'll have less available time off except for weekends...but if things do pick up, I might finally be able to get a kayak or sumfin.
The stock suspension webbing stretches. A lot. Friday, at lake murray, I hung my hammock as normal. tested it out, adjusted it and was satisfied it was the perfect height. Not to hard to get into, not too hard to get out of.
When I woke up saturday morning, I was considerably closer to the ground. Well, I've got the straps as high on the tree as I can reach (I am short) and the ridge line is as taught as I am comfortable with. I left the hammock alone and didn't adjust the suspension and sunday, I woke up about 6 inches from the ground.
What was the diameter of the trees you hung from? Could you be pulling them in a bit?
trigger hurt
10-27-2009, 20:02
What was the diameter of the trees you hung from? Could you be pulling them in a bit?
haha. I'm a bit on the tubby side, but not that tubby.
6-8 inches is generally what I look for. The tree's in question were about 4" diameter.
Mustardman
10-27-2009, 20:06
Given the right conditions and the right tree, a hammock could easily apply enough force to bend a tree that's only 4" in diameter.
Given the right conditions and the right tree, a hammock could easily apply enough force to bend a tree that's only 4" in diameter.
+2.
I am much more pleased with large pines than I am with 4-5" trees. The small ones don't appear to sag, but the proof is in the hanging.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2609/3955851873_4846c9f46a.jpg
No sagging lower when you use a nice 4 foot diameter pine. Woke at the same elevation as I had when I went to bed.
For those of you who use poles/paddles to push your straps up the tree,
1) How do you get them back down?
2) How do you manage to find two trees with no low branches? :D
1) Trekking poles. The suspension will be loose enough to get a pole tip under the strap and ease it down the bark.
Or, I drag a rock over and stand on it. Or a bear can - 99% of my trips are into regulated bear can territory, so I have one most of the time.
2) I don't care about branches - I can't afford to, 60% of the trees available to me are firs and they have more branches than Bank of America. :laugh: My arm or the trekking pole gets to push the biner through the mess o' branches.
Wow Lori, I don't know that I've ever seen a pine tree so thick! Texas must be so jealous of the size of the trees in Cali. :lol:
Wow Lori, I don't know that I've ever seen a pine tree so thick! Texas must be so jealous of the size of the trees in Cali. :lol:
Those were the medium sized ones....
Waiting for Brandon to get some sequoia size straps. :lol: Some of the sugar pines give the sequoias a run for their money. :thumbup:
Lori, those look like the trees up at Island lake . . . sometimes I have to look for ones small enough in diameter, yet close enough together for my little 12' straps (Yes, little 12' straps). It's tough but worth the effort :D
Lori, those look like the trees up at Island lake . . . sometimes I have to look for ones small enough in diameter, yet close enough together for my little 12' straps (Yes, little 12' straps). It's tough but worth the effort :D
Look on strapworks.com - you can custom order straps.
And yes, that was Island Lake. I seem to remember some guy with a hammock in the next pine over. :laugh:
trigger hurt
10-28-2009, 09:26
alright gravy.
i ordered my whoopie slings and I'm ordering straps from strapworks later today. your turn, sir!
ricegravy
10-28-2009, 11:21
i ordered my whoopie slings and I'm ordering straps from strapworks later today. your turn, sir!
Eh, I have a ton of amsteel blue. I'll just make some if I like yours ;)
Sir Gravy, the crafty.
trigger hurt
10-28-2009, 11:51
Eh, I have a ton of amsteel blue. I'll just make some if I like yours ;)
Sir Gravy, the crafty.
Like...when are you gonna make me some tublar tarp roller uppers? I offered you steak at our last campout? Shouldn't that consideration be considered payment?
:thumbup1: