View Full Version : Underquilt & Cold "side sleeper"
I own & love JRB gear. I need a little tweaking for side sleeping and wanted some advice. I posted here vs. asking the Jacks so it might help someone else, too. (my apologies if this has been discussed here: couldn't find it)
When sleeping on my side, my hip gets cool (not freezing, just uncomfortable). Everything else is comfy & I can't figure out how to fix it w/o messing up an otherwise warm setup:confused: .
I recently switched to a HH UL Expl from an ULBP, and since the hammock is longer, the suspension cords are stretched a little longer - but other than that WHAT'S UP?
Thanks for your help!
If just your hip is cold, check to see if you are hanging the underquilt too tight. With the hip being the lowest point, if the underquilt is too tight it will compress the insulation. Making a cold spot. It might be hang too loose. But I think that would cause more cold spots.
With the hip being the lowest point, if the underquilt is too tight it will compress the insulation. Making a cold spot. It might be hang too loose. But I think that would cause more cold spots.
HE, that doesn't make any sense to me (Of course I know nothing about an underquilt). If the underquilt is under your hammock how are you compressing it? It isn't like your laying on it like a sleeping bag and compressing it to the pad. It seems it would have plenty of loft from the bottom up.
HE, that doesn't make any sense to me (Of course I know nothing about an underquilt). If the underquilt is under your hammock how are you compressing it? It isn't like your laying on it like a sleeping bag and compressing it to the pad. It seems it would have plenty of loft from the bottom up.
I had issues with this when I first started using mine. If you have the underquilt hang too tight, when you get in the hammock it will push against it. This will compress the insulation in the underquilt. Most underquilts have a shockcord suspension of some type. They will give some but not a lot. The way to fix it would be to hang the underquilt a little looser.
headchange4u
04-03-2007, 11:34
Ewker,
If the under quilt is hung to close to the hammock body when you lay in the hammock you will also compress the insulation just like a sleeping bag.
The optimal hang for and under quilt would be that once you are in the hammock the hammock body and the under quilt just touch, close enough to eliminate any air gaps that can cause cold spots but far enough away that the insulation is not compressed.
todd hiker,
Try to hang the under quilt a little lower. Pan showed me at Mt Rogers that you can move the suspension system in toward the center of the hammock a few inches or pull the the SS a little tighter so that you have more slack in the end with the biners. Make sense?
Ewker,
If the under quilt is hung to close to the hammock body when you lay in the hammock you will also compress the insulation just like a sleeping bag.
The optimal hang for and under quilt would be that once you are in the hammock the hammock body and the under quilt just touch, close enough to eliminate any air gaps that can cause cold spots but far enough away that the insulation is not compressed.
I still don't see how you can compress it since you are not fully laying on it :confused:
headchange4u
04-03-2007, 11:45
You are not compressing it like you would be if it was inside the hammock, underneath you, but if it is to close to the hammock your weight can cause compression of the insulation, especially when we are talking about down.
Things like protruding elbows , knees, and hips cause cause more compression in a smaller area resulting in a cold spot.
NCPatrick
04-03-2007, 11:48
You hang the underquilt under your hammock. If the lines that you are hanging the underquilt with squish the underquilt too tightly against the bottom of the hammock (top of the underquilt), you will get compression. It's a little tricky, because you want to hang it tight enough against the hammock to not get large air gaps, and at the same time you don't want the underquilt plastered to the bottom of your hammock (compressed). There's a fine line there. The cold hip in question points to an underquilt possibly getting compressed at that particular point. The answer given was to see if the underquilt could be hung a tad more loosely so that it won't compress at the hip.
Hope this helps, I'm sure it's clear as mud.
I still don't see how you can compress it since you are not fully laying on it :confused:
The entire underquilt doesn't compress, just the one spot on the hip. Go setup your hammock with the underquilt with as much tension as possible. The spot under your hip will compress slightly, enough to make a cold spot.
Just go try it and see. Trying to explain it here won't do much good. It's like one of those weird things you used see on Mr. Wizard's World.
Quilts have two layers of fabric with down in between those layers. If the outer layer is forced to stay in place, by tension, but the inner layer is forced towards the outer layer, by someone laying on it, compression occurs. Voi-la cold spot.
NCPatrick
04-03-2007, 14:04
It could be down, or it could be some other form of insulation. The point is the same.
The entire underquilt doesn't compress, just the one spot on the hip. Go setup your hammock with the underquilt with as much tension as possible. The spot under your hip will compress slightly, enough to make a cold spot.
Just go try it and see. Trying to explain it here won't do much good. It's like one of those weird things you used see on Mr. Wizard's World.
I don't have an underquilt.
NCPatrick
04-03-2007, 14:49
Okay then. Imagine you bought yourself an underquilt...ok? And so now you have to hang it under your hammock, right? So you hang it by the suspension line given to you by whatever company you bought it from.
But it's suspended too tightly, so when you lie down in your hammock, your underquilt's loft is compressed and you still feel cold... now, when you loosen the suspension a bit, it will force the underquilt to hang a little looser under your hammock and it isn't so compressed. Now when you lie down the underquilt is not AS compressed, but you still feel cold under your (just for instance, your LEFT) hip when you sleep on your side... so you then hang the underquilt even a bit LOOSER and now you are nice and toasty warm in your hammock and you have no pads in your hammock that keep sliding around during the night getting in your way, and you sleep for 8 hours straight and feel great the next day.
It helps to have someone OUTSIDE the hammock adjust the underquilt while you are inside, to get the best fit.
that sounds like a lot of work. Do you have to do that every time you use the hammock and underquilt?
headchange4u
04-03-2007, 16:45
Usually once you have the suspension set correctly you can just leave them on the hammock when you store it. Next time you attach the under quilt is should be right where it needs to be.
Peter_pan
04-03-2007, 18:52
Ewker,
If the under quilt is hung to close to the hammock body when you lay in the hammock you will also compress the insulation just like a sleeping bag.
The optimal hang for and under quilt would be that once you are in the hammock the hammock body and the under quilt just touch, close enough to eliminate any air gaps that can cause cold spots but far enough away that the insulation is not compressed.
todd hiker,
Try to hang the under quilt a little lower. Pan showed me at Mt Rogers that you can move the suspension system in toward the center of the hammock a few inches or pull the the SS a little tighter so that you have more slack in the end with the biners. Make sense?
Wow ... you guys really do listen...;)
Todd,
Most of the responses have it about right...odds are that the SS is too tight making the UQ taut to the hammock bottom vs gentlty touching.... best is to check it with some one in the hammock...slide in a hand ,gently touching...test two ,place the other hand below the UQ...about the 2 inches for a Nest , stop it is right... less than 1.5 inches loosen it up by moving one end in towards the hammock by 1/2 inch... adjust one end at a time in 1/2 inch increments...
Enjoy !
Pan
Thank you all! I'm sure I'll be toasty next time out.
This is the right place to get help.
Usually once you have the suspension set correctly you can just leave them on the hammock when you store it. Next time you attach the under quilt is should be right where it needs to be.
why wouldn't you take the underquilt off to pack it up. Seems it would be quite large to pack away when left on the hammock. Do you use bungee cords to hold it in place.
blackbishop351
04-03-2007, 21:41
why wouldn't you take the underquilt off to pack it up. Seems it would be quite large to pack away when left on the hammock. Do you use bungee cords to hold it in place.
Most people do detach the UQ when packing. I think headchange probably meant that the suspension stays adjusted for the most part; once you get the fit right you don't really have to adjust it.
I, on the other hand, have my "BB sack" which allows me to pack hammock, hammock sock, and UQ together in one nice, really quick bundle. The current size of the sack is about 11" diameter bottom by 16" long when packed. This isn't a tight pack - it's got enough room for Jeff's Potomac, or my Old Rag Mtn., or a Nest AND No Sniveler - with plenty to spare. This allows the quilt to loft as much as possible when you have room, or compress more when you don't.
headchange4u
04-04-2007, 08:38
why wouldn't you take the underquilt off to pack it up. Seems it would be quite large to pack away when left on the hammock. Do you use bungee cords to hold it in place.
Like BB said I do remove the under quilt when I break down camp but I leave the suspension system for the UQ on the hammock and it gets packed up with the hammock. I know you don't own an UQ so here's a pic of the JRB SS on a HH:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/JRBSS.jpg
The pic shows the SS loosely hung on the hammock. Once you tighten it down it tends to stay in place. Getting an UQ hung correctly is a lot like getting a new pack: It takes a little while to get that everything adjusted for that perfect fit.
what is an SS? Do you use those biners to hang your stuff sacks? Why can't you just attach the stuff sacks directly to the rope instead of being right next to the hammock
It is used to attach things like underquilts.
You can see them in this photo
http://216.83.168.206/index_files/Products%20List_files/SGT%20Rock's%20NS.jpg
headchange4u
04-04-2007, 11:31
SS= Suspension System
Those biners are for attaching your under quilt. You have a suspension on each end of the hammock and each small biner attaches to a corner of the under quilt (see red arrows). That's what holds the quilt under the hammock.:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/JRBUQ.jpg
You can see the entire method for attaching a an under quilt here (http://216.83.168.206/index_files/Products%20List_files/Under%20Quilt_files/Under%20Quilt%20Installation%20Instructions.htm).
Kick *** Quilts uses a similar method to attach their underquilts (http://www.kickassquilts.com/images/potomacFull/attachmentDiagram.jpg).
how in the heck do you even get in those hammocks. Is there a zipper I can't see on the netting.
I'm starting to suspect someone is having a little fun with everyone else.:rolleyes:
On the bottom there is a slit that you peek up through.
EDIT: I will answer the questions, since others may want to know.
I'm starting to suspect someone is having a little fun with everyone else.:rolleyes:
actually not. I have only seen one hammock with an underquilt before. I didn't pay any attention as to how it was attached. After I posted, it hit me those were the dreaded Hennessy Hammocks. It still doesn't look easy to get in one with the underquilt in the way.
headchange4u
04-04-2007, 12:33
A Hennessy Hammock has a slit in the bottom through which you enter and exit. The slit has Velcro on the edges and it closes when you pull your feet inside the hammock.
To get in you pull the under quilt to the side and enter through the slit as normal. The under quilt will go back into place once you are inside.
stoikurt
04-04-2007, 13:38
Thank you all! I'm sure I'll be toasty next time out.
This is the right place to get help.
Of course you'll be warmer next time...you're in Tallahasse for gosh sakes. And it's getting warmer and warmer every day!:rolleyes:
southmark
04-04-2007, 14:11
actually not. I have only seen one hammock with an underquilt before. I didn't pay any attention as to how it was attached. After I posted, it hit me those were the dreaded Hennessy Hammocks. It still doesn't look easy to get in one with the underquilt in the way.
Here is a link to a downloadable video demonstrating entering a Hennessy Hammock.
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/hiking/sections/gear/shelter/hhvid01.htm
headchange4u
04-04-2007, 14:25
Here is a link to a downloadable video demonstrating entering a Hennessy Hammock.
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/hiking/sections/gear/shelter/hhvid01.htm
Those are nice videos.
You can see in the second video (using the HH with a pad) how a persons hip protrudes further out when they sleep on their side and how it cold create a cold spot.
You can see in the second video (using the HH with a pad) how a persons hip protrudes further out when they sleep on their side and how it cold create a cold spot.
I looked at that video but don't see how it can create a cold spot (when laying on your side) if you're laying on the pad.
PS. that type of video is good for newbies just getting into hammocking.
headchange4u
04-04-2007, 14:46
I looked at that video but don't see how it can create a cold spot (when laying on your side) if you're laying on the pad.
PS. that type of video is good for newbies just getting into hammocking.
It won't really create a cold spot if you are using a pad but the hip sticking out like that will push on the under quilt creating a cold spot.
Hopefully we will have some nice videos like that soon.:)
actually not. I have only seen one hammock with an underquilt before. I didn't pay any attention as to how it was attached. After I posted, it hit me those were the dreaded Hennessy Hammocks. It still doesn't look easy to get in one with the underquilt in the way.
Sorry about that. It makes sense now that you mention forgetting about the HH.:)
On the subject, this maybe one of those things you have to see in person to fully get. That is the only way I fully understood the underquilt thing.
Of course you'll be warmer next time...you're in Tallahasse for gosh sakes. And it's getting warmer and warmer every day!:rolleyes:
Good point!:p
Frolicking Dino
04-05-2007, 05:59
Clarification of the compression problem from a ground-dwellers' perspective: You know how a bag that is too small will not keep you warm because the size of the outer-shell trying to hold a too-big body inside compresses the insulation on top; The same thing can happen in an underquilt when your butt or shoulders sag enough to compress the insulation in an underquilt to its outer-shell (on the bottom in the case of an underquilt). Any time down or other insulation is rendered flat by compression from inside a garment, sleeping bag or quilt, a cold spot results.
Clarification of the compression problem from a ground-dwellers' perspective: You know how a bag that is too small will not keep you warm because the size of the outer-shell trying to hold a too-big body inside compresses the insulation on top; The same thing can happen in an underquilt when your butt or shoulders sag enough to compress the insulation in an underquilt to its outer-shell (on the bottom in the case of an underquilt). Any time down or other insulation is rendered flat by compression from inside a garment, sleeping bag or quilt, a cold spot results.
That is a good way to explain it.
Dude, go find someone with a hammock and an underquilt. Have them set it up for you and you go see for yourself what we're talking about.
If you're gonna do this hammock thing, Ewker, you're gonna have to either find someone who can show you one on one, buy the stuff yourself and learn first hand. JRB posted that basically all our explanation are correct. If that isn't enough then you need someone to show first hand.
It's like trying to explain how an airplane flies. We could talk physics all day, but once you get in an airplane and go flying it makes more sense.
There is an even better analogy (birds and th bees), but I don't want to offend anyone, if you know what I mean.