Any No Sniveller negatives, like neck/shoulder drafts?

[BillyBob58]

Ok, it's clear that many folks are sold on the NS and/or Nest, so I am sure they are excellent products. Sooner or later, I will probably either go this route- either NS by itself or with Nest- or with the PeaPod. And I definitely see that the top quilt approach would have many comfort and convenience advantages over a regular sleeping bag. And the multi use options are very atractive.

However, I see one potential problem. And I can't visualize how this is solved, but I figure you guys can set me straight! Whenever I use my sleeping bag as a quilt with foot sack, I obviously loose a lot of heat around the neck and shoulders. This is much worsened if I turn on my side. I have often worn thick jackets and such to overcome this. But if it is 30* or below, I always end up getting in the bag, cinching the draft collar around my neck and cinching the hood down to breating hole only style. If I was cold, I will usually QUICKLY warm right up, as I confirm the advantages of sealing of the below neck area and adding a couple of inches of loft around my entire head and neck. Sometimes it seems like this is worth 20*! Even if it is not the most confortable way to sleep, it beats being cold. And I have zero doubt that this is a valuable attribute for keeping warm when it is really cold.

Also, I have come to realize recently that getting in the sleeping bag is no longer a struggle when I use my Speer. Using the top loader style, I have found a number of bag entry options with which I can be in the bag and zipped up with hood closed with minimal struggle and in a minute or two. So with the Speer, that sleping bag problem is no longer as huge as it was. And as TeeDee (I think it was TeeDee?) has pointed out to me, I can cut the netting of of my HH, sew on some velcro or a zipper to convert to a top loader. Which would then make sleeping bag use pretty easy with my HH also. If I ever get the nerve to start cutting on my hammock! :eek: BUT, I am still carrying the wt. of insulation under me that my wt. compresses to useless. Though at least it still makes sure I have no drafts on the side. IOWs, it's like you are nicely tucked in, without worying about loosing thie tuck in if you move!

So, the main thing I want to know is: how does the NS deal with this neck draft situation? The Mt. Rogers trip clearly shows you guys have a workable solution. Does the NS (or Nest) seal well around the neck, even if you turn to your side? If it does, I have a separate Marmot hood that would take care of the head insulation as well as a mummy bag.

The NS long + Nest runs about $500+ and 42oz.( I am not sure if that includes suspension in the wt?). What temp do you guys find that combo adequate for in the field, considering wind etc? 20*? 30*? What did you have to add on Mt.Rogers, when it was well below 20*, if anything? What is the consensus on this? ( I know temp ratings vary widely for the individual and conditions and YMMV, so I'm just looking for how it has worked for you guys when you have tried it)



Thanks in advance
Bill

[blackbishop351]

I've only had one test with a NS, so take my comment as such...of course, my one test was at Mt. Rogers :p

The drawstring at the head end of the NS pulls double duty. It allows fitting around the hammock when used as a UQ, obviously necessary. It also serves as a draft stopper when used as a top quilt. After laying the quilt over you, you can cinch the drawstring down a bit, forming "shoulder pockets" at either corner and snugging the middle section around your neck. Problem solved.

[headchange4u]

I would agree with what BB has told you. The No Sniveller with the neck sinched will eliminate most drafts.

At Mt Rogers Pan was demonstrating his Down To Earth Pad Converter (http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Pad.htm) with a No Sniveller. He attached the down hood to the pad and you have a sleeping bag basically. I raised the question of draft tubes and Pan went on to show me how their down sleeves and be incorporated into the No Sniveller/Pad Converter combo to make some really nice,effective draft tubes.

[Coffee]

If it helps the nest on my scale comes in at 20 oz and the ss at 1.7 oz (I think). I now they now have a lighter ss.

If you feel comfortable sewing. You could get 2 quilts for around $250, or less. I am about to start 2 quilts. One with 2" and the other with 3" baffles with a 15% overstuff. This should give me 2.5" and 3.5" of loft. Even with ordering momentun90 and nanoseeum through thru-hiker, I will still be able have around $120 in one quilt and around $130 in the other. You could do it for less, but I figured if I was going to make one I was going to go all out. Weight without ss should come in at around 20 and 27 oz repectively. Cost wise I should add that it is less for the down since I am ordering in bulk.

[slowhike]

i understand what your saying about the drafts. most of the time it's not that difficult to deal w/ by wearing a jacket or using something as a draft tube like was talked about, but when it's really cold you feel those drafts that manage to find there way in.
here's a post from another thread titled "wearable quilts" that i started a while back.
even though i wasn't satisfied w/ this 1st prototype & never did get around to making an improved version (w/ a zipper front instead of velcro & a little wider), i'm still convinced that a puffy, sealable neck on a quilt is worth it's small weight because of the way it seals you in.
very efficient.

ok... i finally got the 1st prototype of my version of wearable quilt made.
it`s not much different than some of the others out there (maybe ugly-er), except for the collars.
i really like the way the collars work. they are insulated & they have a channel sewn into the outer part of the shell that accommodates a small elastic draw cord.
because the draw cord is elastic & on the outside of the insulation, it gently snugs the puffy collar around your neck with out feeling constricted.
same with the arm collars.
you have the choice of leaving them hanging loose, or closing them to retain heat. it`s a really effective method of restricting the exchange of your body heat with the cold air out side.
a couple things i know i will do different on the next one...
1) use a draw string to close the bottom of the bag
2) use a zipper (full length) on the front instead of Velcro. it`s really comical to watch me try to put it on & get the Velcro lined-up & closed.
i really need someone to help me get it on
also i`ve learned a thing or two about the width needed. that`s part of the problem w/ getting it closed.
i had to add on a strip on one side to make it wider, but it`s still not as wide as it should be.
before i give you the weights remember that this is a first try w/ lots of goofs & changes that can be made to improve the neatness & weight.
i used synthetic insulation... two or three kinds, piecing it together.
i`ll probably use down on the next one.
it weighs 3lbs. it`s the quilt i used recently in the back yard at 14°f.
i believe the next one will be warmer & weigh less. plus, it will be more practical as a wearable quilt.
pictures in the "homemade gear" gallery. http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...5/PC090125.JPG
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...5/PC140026.JPG
...tim
__________________

[BillyBob58]

I've only had one test with a NS, so take my comment as such...of course, my one test was at Mt. Rogers :p

The drawstring at the head end of the NS pulls double duty. It allows fitting around the hammock when used as a UQ, obviously necessary. It also serves as a draft stopper when used as a top quilt. After laying the quilt over you, you can cinch the drawstring down a bit, forming "shoulder pockets" at either corner and snugging the middle section around your neck. Problem solved.


Thanks for the comments guys, most questions have been answered. And HE, I've really got to get into sewing with those kinds of $ savings!

So BB, it was apparently a good bit colder at Mt. Rogers than 25 or 30*? Maybe more like zero to 10*? Plus wind? So was the NS adequate as a sleeping bag substitute at those temps, and if not what did you have to add to it to get thru the night? I guess you used it on top, and not as UQ? Did you use a nest on bottom and if so, what did you have to add in the way of pads?
Bill

[blackbishop351]

Thanks for the comments guys, most questions have been answered. And HE, I've really got to get into sewing with those kinds of $ savings!

So BB, it was apparently a good bit colder at Mt. Rogers than 25 or 30*? Maybe more like zero to 10*? Plus wind? So was the NS adequate as a sleeping bag substitute at those temps, and if not what did you have to add to it to get thru the night? I guess you used it on top, and not as UQ? Did you use a nest on bottom and if so, what did you have to add in the way of pads?
Bill

It got down to around 15* the second night I think, with a LOT of wind chill (35 mph steady). I used the NS by itself on top and Jeff's Potomac on the bottom. I used a 3/8" Walmart blue pad with the Potomac the first night, but used the quilt by itself the second night and was actually warmer.

Now for the "cheating" part. I used my hammock sock both nights, adding around 10*. I also wore full clothing both nights. I don't see any reason to carry clothes if you're not using their insulation at night, too. I had a cotton T-shirt, heavy cotton pullover/sweater, and a mid-weight fleece on top. Cotton long johns, light-weight fleece pants, and BDUs on bottom. Plus a windstopper fleece hat and two pairs of Smartwool socks. The second night, I substituted my homemade insulated pants for my BDUs but ended up venting them fully to sleep - I got too hot. I also fully unzipped the fleece jacket both nights.

Hope that helps.

[BillyBob58]

It got down to around 15* the second night I think, with a LOT of wind chill (35 mph steady). I used the NS by itself on top and Jeff's Potomac on the bottom. I used a 3/8" Walmart blue pad with the Potomac the first night, but used the quilt by itself the second night and was actually warmer.

Now for the "cheating" part. I used ............ The second night, I substituted my homemade insulated pants for my BDUs but ended up venting them fully to sleep - I got too hot. I also fully unzipped the fleece jacket both nights.

Hope that helps.

It does help, thank you. Most impressive! Though very strange that you would be warmer WITHOUT the WW pad than with it! Don't have a clue what could account for that, unless it was colder or windier/wetter the first night.

[blackbishop351]

It does help, thank you. Most impressive! Though very strange that you would be warmer WITHOUT the WW pad than with it! Don't have a clue what could account for that, unless it was colder or windier/wetter the first night.

The first night wasn't as cold (base temps) but there was quite a bit more wind. My thought is that a pad inside a hammock completely changes the overall geometry (I've confirmed this via measurement). I think the pad created air spaces both between me and it, and between it and the UQ. If that's the case, especially the air pockets in the UQ would cause problems.

To be fair, I should correct a detail about my earlier post - the first night I didn't use the NS on top. I used my 15* Marmot bag, opened as a quilt.