View Full Version : DIY Under/Top Quilt Design Questions
I am about to start my first quilt project. I already have the materials on the way. I originally was going to go with a rectangular quilt. Now I am starting to think about tappering the foot end.
I am planning on making 2 quilts. One with 2.5" and one with 3.5" of loft. Their weights should be about 20 and 27 respectively. I want to make both usable as a top and bottom quilt. I am planning on putting a head hole into the 2.5" quilt to wear as a poucho.
I know the rectangular would be easier to make. But in the end I am more concerned with weight than ease of making. Plue hard projects are fun. I am thinking that I could shave a few oz with a tapered end. I am thinking that as an underquilt I will pull the drawstings compressing the quilt anyways (which will also compress the down some). A smaller footbox should be warmer since there will be less room from my body to heat.
Question for those who have made one. Should I taper it, if so how much? I plan on setting up my nest tomorrow and taking some measurements to see how it feels. Switching from the sleeping bag to a quilt is already going to take 14oz out of my winter pack, getting my winter base well below 20lbs now. But a few more oz would be nice.
slowhike
04-11-2007, 00:17
i would taper it.
w/o trying to give exact measurements of quilts that have worked for me, here are a few things that i think are important...
like you said, small foot box is better. less space to heat.
if it's warm, just pull your feet up out of that small space.
i like the quilt to start flaring out wider pretty quickly as it separates at the foot box. this gives extra on the sides to keep it tucked at the knees & control drafts.
and i hope you won't make the mistake of trying to save 1 or 2 more ozs by making it to narrow over all. if so, you'll probably regret it when you roll over on cold nights<g>.
how do you plan to make the head hole?
I am thinking 48" wide after seams. I am going to test that out with my nest tomorrow. But I think that is wide enough.
I plan on making a cotton prototype before I actually make it. So you are thinking a taper from the foot end to around the knees? I was thinking waist. Maybe I could do one taper to the knees and one from that too the waist.
Not sure on the head hole yet. I was thinking in the middle. I plan on making the first one without the headhole and the second one with. That way the head hole is the only thing I need to concentrate on. I am thinking a prototype of this one too will be in order.
I've been thinking about making a down quilts too. How do you calculate the amount of down you need with a taper?
blackbishop351
04-11-2007, 02:44
Just calculate the volume like you would otherwise...the area of the shell is just a little more complicated. No big deal, though.
area of quilt X loft / Fill Power = Amount of Down
The Area and Loft should be in inches.
slowhike
04-11-2007, 07:20
. So you are thinking a taper from the foot end to around the knees? I was thinking waist. Maybe I could do one taper to the knees and one from that too the waist.
on my next one i plan to make it angle out quickly as soon as it leaves the foot box connection. it will be full width by the time it gets to the hips maybe.
slowhike
04-11-2007, 08:14
check out the specs on the new cocoon line of quilts
http://www.bozemanmountainworks.com/
ultralight if you got the cash!
after you pull up one of the quilts, click on "view sizing charts".
NCPatrick
04-11-2007, 08:36
check out the specs on the new cocoon line of quilts
http://www.bozemanmountainworks.com/
ultralight if you got the cash!
after you pull up one of the quilts, click on "view sizing charts".
Thanks for that link. Cool stuff. What are their prices like? Or is it one of those "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" type deals?
Arkwater
04-11-2007, 08:47
The last quilt I made was 48" at both ends (3.25" loft). I calculated tapering the last 2' from 48" down to 40" for the footbox. By my calculations I would only save 15.6 grams (.55oz). I am glad I did not go to the trouble. When sinched up for a footbox it is snug around my size 11 feet. The high loft of the quilt takes up any open space around my feet.
They are a lot. The jackets alone are $170. The bags are not yet being sold, but that should be changed in the next couple weeks. I think they will be $300+. It would be much better to make your own, but good luck finding polarguard delta.
NCPatrick
04-11-2007, 09:04
You'd be better off making a Ray-Way quilt kit by the time you find all the materials you need separately. That's the route I ended up going. First I bought a Fanatic Fringe quilt, but was very unhappy with the workmanship (no quilting in the quilt!), so I sent it back.
slowhike
04-11-2007, 09:17
i didn't intend to take away from HE's questions/discussions on the quilts he's getting ready to make... just thought the specs chart they gave might be a good reference.
maybe this cocoon talk could be moved to another thread if needed. mater a fact i'll do that.
all the cocoon line stuff is insulated w/ delta polarguard.
no way can i give all the specs, but as a reference for the 3 quilts they are offering now...
cocoon UL 60 quilt... 11.0 ozs
$159.99...member
$189.99...non mem
cocoon PRO 90 quilt...14ozs
$179.99...mem
$219.99...non
cocoon UL 180... 19.6 ozs
$199.99...mem
$239.99...non
if i had the cash, i'd be going for it.
BTW... you would recoup more than the $25.00 membership fee w/ one of these purchases.
but if i remember right, at least part (if not all) of the clothing line will not be shipped until june. but i believe the quilts may be available now???
they are just getting this line up & running.
very well thought out stuff.
The last quilt I made was 48" at both ends (3.25" loft). I calculated tapering the last 2' from 48" down to 40" for the footbox. By my calculations I would only save 15.6 grams (.55oz). I am glad I did not go to the trouble. When sinched up for a footbox it is snug around my size 11 feet. The high loft of the quilt takes up any open space around my feet.
Good point. I will crunch some numbers and see what my saving actually are. I think if I am only saving an oz, than it is probibly not worth it.
You'd be better off making a Ray-Way quilt kit by the time you find all the materials you need separately. That's the route I ended up going. First I bought a Fanatic Fringe quilt, but was very unhappy with the workmanship (no quilting in the quilt!), so I sent it back.
Are Ray-Way quilts down quilts? My current underquilt is Primaloft, but I was barely able to sew it on my machine. I really needed a walking foot machine. It seams a down quilt is easier to make.
slowhike
04-11-2007, 09:25
Are Ray-Way quilts down quilts?
no, they use polarguard delta i belive.
NCPatrick
04-11-2007, 09:38
They are Polarguard 3D. Ray Jardine does not use Delta. Here's why: http://www.ray-way.com/quilt/delta.shtml
Ok, there are some quick and dirty calculations on how much weight the taper will save. Given using starting width of 48", mom90 fabric at 1.05oz per sq yard (as given on thru-hiker), 750 fill down, and the taper length of 3' (approx 1/2 my height or waist level).
EDIT: Numbers removed due to a miscalulation, corrected in later post.
Given those savings, this is something I think I want to add to my quilt design.
EDIT: I forgot to add there will also be a savings from the baffle material. I am using nanoseeum for this, so the saving will only be approx .03 - .08 oz. Sorry the engineer in me can't forget to account this.
Ok, there are some quick and dirty calculations on how much weight the taper will save.
Will you be adding taper to the underquilt also?
Arkwater
04-11-2007, 10:35
Ok, there are some quick and dirty calculations on how much weight the taper will save. Given using starting width of 48", mom90 fabric at 1.05oz per sq yard (as given on thru-hiker), 750 fill down, and the taper length of 3' (approx 1/2 my height or waist level).
for 2" loft with 15% overstuff
Footbox width 40" savings 2.28oz
Footbox width 36" savings 3.42oz
Footbox width 30" savings 5.13oz
Footbox width 26" savings 6.28oz
for 3" loft with 15% overstuff
Footbox width 40" savings 2.72oz
Footbox width 36" savings 4.08oz
Footbox width 30" savings 6.13oz
Footbox width 26" savings 7.49oz
Given those savings, this is something I think I want to add to my quilt design.
EDIT: I forgot to add there will also be a savings from the baffle material. I am using nanoseeum for this, so the saving will only be approx .03 - .08 oz. Sorry the engineer in me can't forget to account this.
I can't seem to make those numbers work in my design?!? What are your specs for your quilt design?
Where do you guys come up with all these numbers? I guess my music background doesn't lend toward thinking in numbers and logic. I'm one of those artsy types.
Will you be adding taper to the underquilt also?
Yes, it is raining so I do not have a chance to measure right now. But when I attach my nest I have to tighten the drawstrings to make the quilt smaller in width to fit the hammock. This means there is extra width there.
I can't seem to make those numbers work in my design?!? What are your specs for your quilt design?
Reworking them now, I think a miscalculated a little.
Ok, here is the reworked numbers
for 2" loft with 15% overstuff
Footbox width 40" savings 1.134oz
Footbox width 36" savings 2.02oz
Footbox width 30" savings 3.05oz
Footbox width 26" savings 3.11oz
for 3" loft with 15% overstuff
Footbox width 40" savings 1.78oz
Footbox width 36" savings 2.69oz
Footbox width 30" savings 4.04oz
Footbox width 26" savings 4.92oz
Below is the math for the 40" footbox saving over the 48". Given as a rectangle since I am removing 2 triangles.
shell weight saving per side= [(8in/1)(1yd/36in)*(36in/1)(1yd/36in)]*(1.05 oz/sq yd)=.23oz *(2 to account for each side)=.46
fill weight saving= {[(2 in loft)*(8 in)*(36 in)]/(750 fill per oz)}* (1.15 to accound for overstuff)= .88 oz
total saving for a 40" taper = 1.34oz
Still a weight saving and something to consider.
NCPatrick
04-11-2007, 11:15
Yes, it is raining so I do not have a chance to measure right now. But when I attach my nest I have to tighten the drawstrings to make the quilt smaller in width to fit the hammock. This means there is extra width there.
Yes, now you'll have to recalculate everything according to the "rain" factor. You'll have to include the additional rain/weight gain ratio... :p j/k
Yes, now you'll have to recalculate everything according to the "rain" factor. You'll have to include the additional rain/weight gain ratio... :p j/k
Don't forget the setting up in my mudd pit backyard factor. That has to be an exponental function.:eek:
blackbishop351
04-11-2007, 13:20
The last quilt I made was 48" at both ends (3.25" loft). I calculated tapering the last 2' from 48" down to 40" for the footbox. By my calculations I would only save 15.6 grams (.55oz). I am glad I did not go to the trouble. When sinched up for a footbox it is snug around my size 11 feet. The high loft of the quilt takes up any open space around my feet.
That weight savings seems a little small...did you account for the shell material you'd lose too? That's where most of the weight is for a down quilt anyway...
That weight savings seems a little small...did you account for the shell material you'd lose too? That's where most of the weight is for a down quilt anyway...
Actually figuring in 750 fill down and 1.05 oz per square yard material, the shell is half of the fill weight based on what I calculated. 1.1 DWR is probibly closer to 1.3, this might take it up to 75%.
Arkwater
04-11-2007, 13:30
I was only tapering for the last 24", so it would not be much of a savings for me. I made a synthetic one that was tapered and did not like it. It limited the usage.
blackbishop351
04-11-2007, 13:32
I was only tapering for the last 24", so it would not be much of a savings for me. I made a synthetic one that was tapered and did not like it. It limited the usage.
Really? The prototype synthetic top quilt I made is pretty tapered...50" at the head, starts tapering about halfway, down to 30" at the foot. It's a convertible top/bottom quilt too, and it's worked really well both ways.
Thanks for the advice.
I am toying with the idea of draft stoppers. I figure they will add an oz to the weight of the quilt. With the edge seam that I am using on the down quilts, adding them later will not be hard. Would a rolled hem on the edge make it easier to tuck?
I want them to be able to lay flat so that I can use them as bottom quilts as well.
I am thinking now about how to close the footbox. Headchange suggested using snaps to close it. Any thoughts of using them or something similar instead of depending on the drawstring and onmi tape, or a short zipper?
My thinking is that weight wise they might add a little, but they would keep the bottom of the quilt from compressing and from taking away some of the length.
headchange4u
04-12-2007, 22:03
I got the idea for the snaps when I saw a picture of them used on a Nunatak Ark Quilt. The pics on the website (http://www.nunatakusa.com/arc_faq.htm) don't show the snaps on the footbox area but I swear I saw a similar quilt with foot box snaps. Another neat feature of the Arc quilts is they use a snap at the neck also. I bet that would really make for a nice snug fit around the should/neck area and go a long way to stop drafts. I am thinking about adding a "neck snap" to my No Sniveller.
I'm sure that using snaps would require the purchase of some special too:rolleyes: l. I just wonder how secure the snap would be in the foot box area. I would think it would only require 3-4 snaps to form the footbox.
They also use a neat method of securing the quilt around you; a couple of webbing straps go across the back and hold the quilt around you. I like how the straps can also hold pad. You wouldn't need draft stoppers if you used a method like this.
I also like the location of the drawstring. It's exits in the middle of the quilt and and allows you to sinch both sides at once and would be easier to adjust once you are settled under the quilt. It's also made from shock cord. I think if you use shock cord in the drawstring channel of a DIY under quilt it would really contour to the shape of a hammock which would help to stop drafts between the hammock and the under quilt.
Even using 1.9 oz ripstop, and using 7" x 6', you will well under 1 oz. Considerably less with 1.1 oz ripstop.
I would advise against a rolled edge - that rolled edge will be tucked under you and could become annoying. Kind of like lying all night on a small cord. Doesn't seem like much to start, but after an hour or so it feels like a boulder.
I fold the end together and sew it across the end and up the side. That is where the "V" notch I wrote about comes from. Sewing the foot box, eliminates any cords or Velcro or zipper or snaps to fool with and come loose. Just stick your feet into the box and that's it.
What's the rationale for using it as a bottom quilt as well? And how often do you really think that will be necessary?
My thinking is that I want to have a quilt that will fit my current and future needs. I have a JRB nest, but in the winter I can see me taking these quilts instead. I think the 3.5" will mainly see use as an underquilt, but their might be times I need it on the top and the 2.5 on bottom. The 2.5" will see use as a summer underquilt with my summer top quilt I made a few months back. In the colder months it will be used as a top quilt with either the 3.5" quilt underneath or my nest.
I guess what I am saying is that I want to make these pieces of gear the most versitle I can. I want to phase out all non DIY gear out of my pack. Making these pull double duty is a big step in that. My nest is a great piece of commerical gear, but it is commerical gear that I can make myself. Part of what I want out of hiking right now is to have as much gear as I can homemade. I like the feeling of independence it gives me.
NCPatrick
04-13-2007, 07:11
Not to distract from HE's post about versatile, double-duty DIY gear, but I just finished my Ray-Way quilt last night and will be taking it to SEHHA today. It's not going to be as versatile or pull double-duty, but it'll sure keep me warm. Whoohooo! :)
Where's the durn dancing banana when you need him? (J/K!)
Not to distract from HE's post about versatile, double-duty DIY gear, but I just finished my Ray-Way quilt last night and will be taking it to SEHHA today. It's not going to be as versatile or pull double-duty, but it'll sure keep me warm. Whoohooo! :)
Where's the durn dancing banana when you need him? (J/K!)
Cool project and a good piece of gear.
NCPatrick
04-13-2007, 10:37
I'll have to post some pictures, as soon as I can take some.
I was laying out my nest and experimenting with spare fabric last night. I think I am going to go without a tapper. I know I would save a couple oz's, but I like the feel of a larger footbox.
I think I am going to close it with omni tape and a drawstring after all. I am thinking that if I make a larger drawstring chamber on the footend, it will close the footend better. On past drawstring projects I have noticed that a wider chamber closes more. This will make the hole in the end a lot smaller. It will also add an extra inch or so to the length of the quilt. This will help compensate for the length that it takes away. Adding length will also move the down farther away for where the drawcord is. This should result in compressing the down less.
I am going to test this out first, but it should help a few of the issues out.
I am also thinking about adding an article on how to make this. It should help the next guy make one. I saw some pics in different places and a couple places with people posts semi good directions on top quilts. A step by step one with detailed pics could help the next guy.
Any thoughts?
NCPatrick
04-17-2007, 14:26
I am also thinking about adding an article on how to make this. It should help the next guy make one. I saw some pics in different places and a couple places with people posts semi good directions on top quilts. A step by step one with detailed pics could help the next guy.
Any thoughts?
That sounds great. One of the reasons I wanted to make the Ray-Way was because it had (fairly) good instructions that even I could follow.
Maybe you could link to where you ordered the materials from, etc.?
That sounds great. One of the reasons I wanted to make the Ray-Way was because it had (fairly) good instructions that even I could follow.
Maybe you could link to where you ordered the materials from, etc.?
Will do. Let me put some thought into it. I'll start a thread later tonight to discuss it before the fact. That way I can get ideas on how to put it together and what pics to take before I make it.