View Full Version : Tarp Position and setup
ikemouser
07-19-2009, 00:14
Hey guys, as it is now I am using biners on my warbonnet, then when its up and set, tying plain ol knots to tie the tarp with speer no tangle bove the biners. My question is do you tie the tarp above the hammock webbing or below the hammock webbing? It tarp line running down the middle of my maccat is also off center from the hammock because of the way i have it setup the webbing is in the way. Anyway, any advice would be great, on how you guys do it. I've got a sil right now but im gonna switch it out for a spinn, i know you dont need the tarp tensioners, so let me know how to tie it to the tree with sil as well as spinn, thanks guys.
Also I seem to be having problems getting the BB centered under the tarp to where I feel like it would not get wet. I get the BB where i want it as far as webbing position and tension, then i have to readjust it because the tarp is off center, anyway, if you guys could run through how you do it quick and right, let me know.
Do you guys pull your tarps taught in the middle? Also, how high off the ground are your hammocks when your sitting in them with the tarp covering them most the time?
warbonnetguy
07-19-2009, 00:56
i attach my tarp ridgeline guylines above where the hammock suspension is attached to the tree, usually just an inch or two above. then i can leave sag in the rl guylines to lower the rl of the tarp to where it needs to be. both my hammock suspension and tarps rl guylines end up running downward at a similar 25-30 deg angle.
i'll try to center the tarp lengthwise over the hammock when i'm setting the tarp up so i have the same amount of overlap at each end. if it's off a little the hammock can be adjusted too.
i don't use tensioners, i find that if it pitch my tarp extra taut to begin with it doesn't loosen much (sil tarp)
my hammock is almost always about chair height off the ground with me in it.
gargoyle
07-19-2009, 02:07
Ike, its the hammock learning curve. We all have our own way to do things. Its like learning to ride a bike. I could tell you all there is to know about a bike, but till you get on and start pedaling, you never fully get it. Just keep at it. I set mine up alot at first to find whats comfortable to me. After a few times (maybe more than a few) you learn the tricks of how high, and where you like to hang. And depending on the weather, sometimes the tarp is high for warm days, and down low for stormy days. It is a matter of preference and conditions.
You'll get it, just stick with it. and you'll learn what works for you.
angrysparrow
07-19-2009, 09:48
One thing to focus on is to hang the tarp first, and try to center it between your chosen trees. Getting it centered is all about practice.
Having it centered means less adjustment when you hang the hammock, and getting in the practice of always hanging the tarp first will make sure you have a dry spot to hang the hammock when it's raining.
As far as tying to the trees, there are quite a few different ways to do that. Fig-9's (small ones) are popular for hanging it without knots, but with small diameter cord like the Speer those can abrade the cord some. Perhaps a trucker's hitch would be a good solution there.
I also use the Speer guyline, but only on the guyouts and not the ridge. I found that paracord (with the core stripped out and the sheath pre-stretched) makes a great tarp ridgeline that stands up to using the small Fig-9's.
What nobody has asked yet is what size tarp are you using? And what suspension? The BB is a longer hammock than most. A smaller tarp presents more of a challenge.
If you are using the ring and strap suspension, hang your tarp first, making sure to center the tarp between the trees as angrysparrow mentioned. Yes, it is a little more fudging with the hammock, but with the ring buckles it should be fairly easy to adjust. I hang my hammock first in dry weather, and that makes hanging the tarp easy, but it is good to practice hanging the tarp first so you can do it.
I believe this method is Ed Speer's method for tying your tarp, at least that was what was told to me. Basically, run your tarp line to the tree. Go around the tree once with your tarp line, and when you reach your original line coming from the tarp, go over and around that line and back around the tree. Go all the way around again until you come to your tarp line, and go over and around again, and back around the tree. Tie off your line to the original line with a slippery half hitch. This centers your tarp line coming off the tree and gives you an easy/fast knot to remove. Requires a little more line if you are dealing with a very large tree, but it works really well.
angrysparrow
07-19-2009, 10:52
What nobody has asked yet is what size tarp are you using?
He mentioned a MacCat in the first post.
Beast 71
07-19-2009, 11:20
I've tied onto the biners with good results. That way small rope is not bitting into the tree bark. But it does limmit your options as to the height you can set your ridgeline.
He mentioned a MacCat in the first post.
MacCat (http://www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com/products.html) comes in multiple sizes. Is it a micro, a standard, a deluxe or an Ultra? All should be plenty long enough, anyway. I could see where a micro or even a standard would be a tight fit, lengthwise, and might require a little tweaking to feel comfortable with your coverage.
When setting up in fair weather I put up the hammock then drape the mac cat over the hammock, lining up the ends with the whipping on the hammock. For centering the ridgeline of tarp over ridgeline of hammock, remember that the tension you put on the tarp guys has a lot to do with it - too much tension on one side and you'll have trouble tensioning the other without getting the tarp off center.
where the tarp is in relation to the hammock suspension on the trees depends on how much clearance I want under the tarp.
mazz1111
07-19-2009, 13:10
Hey Ike-
I'm in my first season of hammocking as well....I have a BB with Mac Deluxe....
Fig 9 carabiners have helped me tremendously in setting the ridgeline on the tarp....At least as far as lengthwise is concerened....they make it really easy to adjust the tarp front to back to get it perfectly centered....that way you don't have to mess with the lay of hammock once you get that where you want it.
mike
I was out in the woods earlier this week going thru the learning process setting up my ulbp and mac standard. My set up wasnt in the easiest of locations being I was on the rivers edge but lucky enough I had two trees 18ft apart with lots of heavy rocks to guy out to.
Bout 1am it started lightning and I woke up to watch the light show and prepare for what was to come. I lowered the tarp which still wasnt centered over the ridgeline nor centered head to foot. 30mins later the down pore started and hard for bout an hour. I couldnt hear the falls I was next too bc the rain was coming down so hard. All that said, I was dry and my tarp wasnt set up "correctly". There is some fudge room so dont be too anal bout the set up. Hell I was more worried about the river rising than the tarp being set up correct at that point. Goodluck.
ikemouser
07-19-2009, 14:15
MacCat (http://www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com/products.html) comes in multiple sizes. Is it a micro, a standard, a deluxe or an Ultra? All should be plenty long enough, anyway. I could see where a micro or even a standard would be a tight fit, lengthwise, and might require a little tweaking to feel comfortable with your coverage.
i have a deluxe maccat. Anyway, i got the guylines on lock for the most part, just wondering what kinda knots you fellas employ on the tarp guylines and the line running from the tarp to the tree on the maccats. The maccat does'nt have a ridgeline, and does'nt need one as it has the reinforced seam down the middle. (am i correct in this assumption?)
I think i will get some fig9's for the line running to the tree. Is the line running to the tree on a tarp like a maccat considered a ridgeline since it does not run all the way down the inside, it only runs from the d-ring to the tree?
ikemouser
07-19-2009, 14:22
Hey Ike-
I'm in my first season of hammocking as well....I have a BB with Mac Deluxe....
Fig 9 carabiners have helped me tremendously in setting the ridgeline on the tarp....At least as far as lengthwise is concerened....they make it really easy to adjust the tarp front to back to get it perfectly centered....that way you don't have to mess with the lay of hammock once you get that where you want it.
mike
Are you talking about employing fig9's on a full length rideline for you mac or just from the black d-rings on each end to the tree? If full, that would mean you added one, or are you calling the "ridgeline" the lengths of rope on either end of the tarp that tie to the tree?
angrysparrow
07-19-2009, 14:52
Is the line running to the tree on a tarp like a maccat considered a ridgeline since it does not run all the way down the inside, it only runs from the d-ring to the tree?
Yes, we are guilty of calling those 'ridge ties' a ridgeline, even when it technically isn't.
Are you talking about employing fig9's on a full length rideline for you mac or just from the black d-rings on each end to the tree? If full, that would mean you added one, or are you calling the "ridgeline" the lengths of rope on either end of the tarp that tie to the tree?
Yes ... the ridgeline is usually referred to the line holding your tarp to the trees ... whether it runs all the way under the tarp or just from the D-Rings. I use 9's on my tarp and I have D-rings. In real situations I often have to move them up or down the rigdeline cord depending on tree spacing, tree girth etc. They are very easily adjustable up and down the line. By that I mean towards the tarp or down the line towards the tree in a wide tree spacing situation.
I believe this method is Ed Speer's method for tying your tarp, at least that was what was told to me. Basically, run your tarp line to the tree. Go around the tree once with your tarp line, and when you reach your original line coming from the tarp, go over and around that line and back around the tree. Go all the way around again until you come to your tarp line, and go over and around again, and back around the tree. Tie off your line to the original line with a slippery half hitch. This centers your tarp line coming off the tree and gives you an easy/fast knot to remove. Requires a little more line if you are dealing with a very large tree, but it works really well.
When not using 9's .... that is the method I employ. Good stuff. Hey Finn!
ikemouser
07-19-2009, 20:50
Yes, we are guilty of calling those 'ridge ties' a ridgeline, even when it technically isn't.
The source of my problem, maybe add it to the glossary of terms, 'ridge ties' not 'ridge lines' for the dring loop to tree connection.
mazz1111
07-19-2009, 20:54
I am speaking of the D-ring to tree..."seam" is actual ridge I guess....
I also took small zip ties and put small plastic fig nines on all the ground D-rings...
I have (4) 6' guy lines with a bow line on one end.....the bow line knot loops over my groundhog stake....Then I can get it nice and tight with those nines.......no knot set-up.
For $10 I got the 4 plastic fig nines and they came with 4 reflective guylines.
angrysparrow
07-19-2009, 20:57
The source of my problem, maybe add it to the glossary of terms, 'ridge ties' not 'ridge lines' for the dring loop to tree connection.
I'll add it, but I can't promise that everyone will use the correct wording. ;)
I'll add it, but I can't promise that everyone will use the correct wording. ;)
Hmm, the ridgeline becomes the ridgeline by which tie outs you choose to use to tie to the tree.
You can't really do that with a cat cut tarp, but say you rig in a Baker Hut config with a rectangular tarp, or you have a 10x10 or 12x12 square tarp. Your "ridge tie" is just whatever tie out you choose to tie to in order to make a ridgeline. A cat cut tarp just has designated "ridge ties" or tie outs for the ridge line.
TinaLouise
07-20-2009, 09:54
just wondering what kinda knots you fellas employ on the tarp guylines and the line running from the tarp to the tree
On the lines that run from my tarp to the tree: I use straps that I've made from mule-tape. These I wrap around the tree above the straps from my hammock (if hammock is hung first) or above where I think the hammock straps will go. On my tarp line going to the tree, I've added the small size of those hitchcraft thingys. Just pull rope through straps, attach to those thingsy and tighten to where I want it. Easy to adjust if needed.
On guylines to stake out tarp: Bowline to tie line to tarp. Clove hitch to add shockcord tensioners to line. And taut-line hitch at the end to adjust length of line and to make a stake out loop. All of these are very easy knots and once you tie them, most don't have to be retied. All knots should be inspected though while you're using them.
Before I started using that hitchcraft thingy, I used a slip bowline to tie the tarp to the tree strap. The thingy thing is just soooo much easier to adjust.
TinaLouise
billvann
07-20-2009, 10:54
1. It sounds like some folks are wrapping the tarp ridgeline around trees without straps. Is that becasue the load is lighter on the tarp and there's less of a chance of damaging the bark?
2. With cat cut tarps, is there a problem with runing a full length ridge line instead of attaching separate "ridge" lines to each D ring? I'm currently using the standard HH tarp that attaches to the suspension via Prussik knots and I like the ease of centering by sliding it back and forth. I plan on upgrading to a separate, larger tarp soon and thought of rigging a similar system with some shock cord tensioners, still possible with two separate lines, except the Prussik know configuration.
angrysparrow
07-20-2009, 10:57
1. It sounds like some folks are wrapping the tarp ridgeline around trees without straps. Is that because the load is lighter on the tarp and there's less of a chance of damaging the bark?
That's correct. The only tension on the tarp lines is the tension you apply in hanging the tarp and it is not weighted additionally like the hammock.
2. With cat cut tarps, is there a problem with runing a full length ridge line instead of attaching separate "ridge" lines to each D ring? I'm currently using the standard HH tarp that attaches to the suspension via Prussik knots and I like the ease of centering by sliding it back and forth. I plan on upgrading to a separate, larger tarp soon and thought of rigging a similar system with some shock cord tensioners, still possible with two separate lines, except the Prussik know configuration.
There's no problem with that. In fact, I think Grizz posted that he does something similar. The only thing to watch for is that you aren't introducing a direct path for rainwater to flow down with the full ridge cord.
just wondering what kinda knots you fellas employ on the tarp guylines and the line running from the tarp to the tree on the maccats.
I use tautlines on my guys and when i dont care about weight fig 9s on the ridge.
ikemouser
07-20-2009, 21:47
I use tautlines on my guys and when i dont care about weight fig 9s on the ridge.
They only weigh 2 grams each, practically nothin
ikemouser
07-20-2009, 22:19
Can somebody comment on the knots they are using to tie the string to the dring on the tarp, whether nylon or plastic. I get the fig 9/lock thing but what kinda knot is actually tied to the dring on the maccat?
gargoyle
07-20-2009, 22:23
anything that holds the tarp from blowing away.
your choices are endless..prussik seems popular
PuckerFactor
07-20-2009, 22:24
Haven't made my tarp yet, but I'd bet people tie a loop in the line, and pop it through the D-ring and thread the other end through the loop. It's called a Lark's Head knot or if you run the tail end through twice, it's a prussik. Either way will work. Or you could go really simple and just tie a bowline through the D-ring.
Hope that helps,
Acer
ETA: Heh, Gargoyle beat me to the punch.
angrysparrow
07-20-2009, 22:25
I form a small loop with a bowline knot, and then feed the standing end of the line through the D-ring and back through the loop to form a lark's head. That is secure and makes it very easy to remove from the tarp as needed.
I have no idea if that is typical, though. This question hasn't really been asked on the forum much.
warbonnetguy
07-20-2009, 23:49
Haven't made my tarp yet, but I'd bet people tie a loop in the line, and pop it through the D-ring and thread the other end through the loop. It's called a Lark's Head knot or if you run the tail end through twice, it's a prussik. Either way will work. Or you could go really simple and just tie a bowline through the D-ring.
Hope that helps,
Acer
ETA: Heh, Gargoyle beat me to the punch.
this is how i do it too, makes a nice clean connection that's easy to remove. for the rl lines however, i do the opposite, i attach line to tree in the same manner instead of to the pull tabs
oh, and i make the loop in the end of the line with a simple overhand on a bight or overhand loop whatever you want to call it.
animalcontrol
07-21-2009, 06:07
I form a small loop with a bowline knot, and then feed the standing end of the line through the D-ring and back through the loop to form a lark's head. That is secure and makes it very easy to remove from the tarp as needed.
I have no idea if that is typical, though. This question hasn't really been asked on the forum much.
2nd this method for me...
LostCause
07-21-2009, 06:47
3rd for the same method
I now use tie loops instead of D-rings or tape loops on my DIY tarps and connect the ridge & guy lines to the tie loops with a slipped sheet bend. I leave some extra line at the ridge ties, and tie it back to make drip loops.
I form a small loop with a bowline knot, and then feed the standing end of the line through the D-ring and back through the loop to form a lark's head. That is secure and makes it very easy to remove from the tarp as needed.
I have no idea if that is typical, though. This question hasn't really been asked on the forum much.
I use the bowline tied directly through the D-ring or attachment point, but I like this way better. Great, now I have something else to do.
ikemouser
07-23-2009, 19:09
I understand you tie a bowline and put hte standing end through the dring on the tarp, then i assume you wrap the free end around the tree a few times, then tie a safety knot to the tree OR are you using something piece of hardware to feed the standing end through after you wrap it around the tree a few times at the end?
I understand you tie a bowline and put hte standing end through the dring on the tarp, then i assume you wrap the free end around the tree a few times, then tie a safety knot to the tree OR are you using something piece of hardware to feed the standing end through after you wrap it around the tree a few times at the end?
See post #5 (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showpost.php?p=133470&postcount=5), or here it is again:
I believe this method is Ed Speer's method for tying your tarp, at least that was what was told to me. Basically, run your tarp line to the tree. Go around the tree once with your tarp line, and when you reach your original line coming from the tarp, go over and around that line and back around the tree. Go all the way around again until you come to your tarp line, and go over and around again, and back around the tree. Tie off your line to the original line with a slippery half hitch. This centers your tarp line coming off the tree and gives you an easy/fast knot to remove. Requires a little more line if you are dealing with a very large tree, but it works really well.
ikemouser
07-23-2009, 23:46
See post #5 (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showpost.php?p=133470&postcount=5), or here it is again:
YEa sweet, just gotta practice. I assume he's tieding the bowline then doing all this coming from the tree, would require alot of line. How much line do you guys have on your ridge ties?
That's how I've been doing it.
I form a small loop with a bowline knot, and then feed the standing end of the line through the D-ring and back through the loop to form a lark's head. That is secure and makes it very easy to remove from the tarp as needed.
I have no idea if that is typical, though. This question hasn't really been asked on the forum much.
ikemouser
07-25-2009, 17:43
2nd this method for me...
I hate to ask the same question over and over, as im sure some of you are frustrated, if you are just dont respond, sorry! Anyway, so let me get this right:
1. I am holding the line in my hand not connected to anything, i tie a small bowline on one end
2. take the end opposite the bowline, the end with no not on it, run it through the dring on the tarp
3. feed standing/dangling end back through bowline to secure bowline knot TO THE TARP forming larks head (got up to this point)
now i have no lines around the tree, i only have a bowline connected to the tarp DRING forming a larks head
i'll show you what mine looks like now.. I wrapped the free end around the chair leg (tree) and then what do i do....
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=76&pictureid=819
I hate to ask the same question over and over, as im sure some of you are frustrated, if you are just dont respond, sorry! Anyway, so let me get this right:
1. I am holding the line in my hand not connected to anything, i tie a small bowline on one end
2. take the end opposite the bowline, the end with no not on it, run it through the dring on the tarp
3. feed standing/dangling end back through bowline to secure bowline knot TO THE TARP forming larks head (got up to this point)
now i have no lines around the tree, i only have a bowline connected to the tarp DRING forming a larks head
i'll show you what mine looks like now.. I wrapped the free end around the chair leg (tree) and then what do i do.... [I like the four wrap knot (http://www.imrisk.com/hammock/improvedknot.htm) at this point. I used to use Figure 9's for this, but the four wrap knot works just as well.
ikemouser
07-25-2009, 18:34
I like the four wrap knot (http://www.imrisk.com/hammock/improvedknot.htm) at this point. I used to use Figure 9's for this, but the four wrap knot works just as well.
The four wrap does not allow sliding adjustements though does it? mine is not allowing me to slide and adjust the tarp without undoing the knots. I think at this point it would be best to have a knot that can slide. The fIRST knot in this video is perfect for it, will slide toward the tree AND AWAY FOR ADJUSTMENTS (tarp cannot fall as it will only slide away when you use your hand on the rope not just wind pulling or something), its an adjustable knot from ray mears:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE7dx0WJo9o
WOW!!! This knot appears to be the holy grail of tarp positioning, it allows me to tie it off center as far as length is concerned, adjust it to the perfect line length on either side of the Maccat Dring backwards or forwards while maintaining a hold. Using this in with the bowline +lark head combo on the dring allows me to setup the tarp ridge tie outs in less than a minute.
Just one question, if anyone also uses this know, should i Wrap around the tree before i tie the ray mears adjustable knot, if i do not it is just looped around the tree not WRAPPED around out, the knot functions both ways. If I wrap it i keep a stick stuck behind the wrapped part so i can pull it out easy if i have to adjust beyond the length of available line. EUREKA!
ikemouser
07-25-2009, 20:28
Ok here is detail of with the stick, without the stick is just the same without the wrap around, this setup allows me superfast setup, and no weight penalty for fig 9s or similar hardware for the ridgeties on my maccat. You can use it without the stick by simply not wrapping it around the tree again, or wrapping it without the stick also works.
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=76&pictureid=831
**CORRECTION: Prystick for KNOT adjustment, not KNOW adjustment****
Hope this helps someone confused about tarp.
Knots used:
1. BOwline tied on end of rope
2. Standing end through dring
3. Now standing end through bowline to form larks head
4. Wrap around tree (just wrap around without full wrap, or wrap around again and use with stick or without)
5. Tie first mears knot from youtube link on line and done
Cute knot, if it works for you that's all that matters. Eventually, once you set up your tarp enough, you'll be able to center it by eyeballing it with no problems whatsoever.
ikemouser
07-26-2009, 10:21
Cute knot, if it works for you that's all that matters. Eventually, once you set up your tarp enough, you'll be able to center it by eyeballing it with no problems whatsoever.
Yea thats my main issue, centereing, thats why i like this because i do not have to center it when i hang it, i can just slide the adj. knot to center it. BTW i believe the knot is a taut line.