Gutermann thread clarification

[Spaceman]

Depending on where I look, the vendor descriptions on some of the Gutermann threads have been a bit confusing. Some vendors are great at telling you exactly what you are getting (i.e. Mara vs.Tera vs. Sew-All with corresponding Tex sizes) while others are a little vague ("Standard Weight", "Extra Strong", etc.). I thought I'd post a clarification that I received from their national sales manager.

Thank you for your inquiry about the Gütermann products you see in the various markets.

Mara is a MicroCore, Spun Polyester thread, made in many Tex sizes and is typically used for construction and decorative stitching on apparel, leather and accessories. The appearance of Mara is a low luster, matte finish with a 'natural' look of silk thread. The thinner Tex sizes are used for garment construction and the thicker Tex sizes are good for buttonholes, decorative topstitching (denim) and leather accent stitching on handbags, wallets, belts, etc.

Tera is a Continuous Filament polyester thread that is made in a different technique and is known for it silky, shiny surface, and strong resistance to abrasion. Tera is slightly stronger than Mara (pound for pound) in like Tex sizes and Tera is normally used for upholstery, leather stitching, outdoor fabrics (awnings, marine upholstery, umbrellas etc.

Both threads are made of 100% polyester, so they both have similar resistance to UV and chlorine, but normally Tera is more commonly used outside or in high sunlight exposure.

Sometimes, people use names that are confusing and normally, our Gutermann customers use the threads 'proper name as shown on the cone or spool. Some retailers use descriptions of the thread that do not match the thread name and this is a little misleading. The Sew All thread you see in Joanne stores or other retail fabric shops is Mara 100 (Tex 30). The heavy topstitch or heavy duty Mara is normally Mara 30 (Tex 100), typically used for denim. This is also called jeans topstitch thread.
Tera is found in some retail stores under the name "Upholstery thread) and this is Tera 40 (Tex 75).

Most Distributors use the actual thread name like Mara or Tera and use the corresponding Tex size to describe the weight or thickness of the thread.
For hammocks, backpacks or similar applications, the Tera 40 is my recommendation. It is available in most of our Distributors and the color range is fairly wide. The thinner Tera threads are great for ripstop nylon as this fabric has a tendency to pucker - so the thinner the thread, the smaller the needle and the least amount of pucker. In that case, Tera 80 (Tex 35) is perfect. This thread is not as widely distributed as Tera 40, but should be carried by more Distributors in the future.

I hope this helps clear up your questions. If you are using Industrial machines, I suggest you look at the websites for Cleaners Supply, Outdoor Wilderness, RockyWoods, Bergen Tailors Supply or Oshman Brothers.

Thanks again for your interest in Gutermann and let me know if you have further questions.
Best, Kathy


Kathy V. Kierce
National Sales Manager
Gütermann of America, Inc.
[email protected]
Phone/Fax: (828) 966-4799
Blackberry (203) 803-0423
www.guetermann.com

And in a follow up email, Kathy mentioned this. Just an FYI

It is so important that people understand the technical properties of the thread and I would like to see if one of the Distributors would "get on board" and stock more of the Tera for people like yourself. Outdoor Wilderness in ID is the most likely, but if you have other sources that could service this - I am happy to reach out to them as well.
You can call me anytime or email - I am happy to help.
Gutermann has been acquired recently by A&E thread and they have a large base of Distributors that also carry a similar product and we might be able to find a Distributor that can stock both products and offer a good assortment of color. This would be in the future, but it makes sense to have a good source for you to purchase the best products.

[Bushwhacker]

the threads 'proper name as shown on the cone or spool.

Does anyone know where this is? My spool is completely blank.

[Hudsonhawk]

Wow what a fantastic response from a large corporation, don't often get service like that anymore.

[Spaceman]

She said she has actually spoken to quite a few hammock forum members in the past and is always willing to help.

[grannypat]

Thanks for posting this. Very helpful.

[ntxkayakr]

Thanks, that was very helpful my mother was very cheap with thread and cleaning her machines properly (professionally) and killed a few. I am attempting to educate myself and not repeat the family tragedy. ;)
Now if only I can find a 201-2 in good condition for less than an arm and a leg. Saw a good fully refurbished 221 featherweight at local Goodwill bid price was up to $65 but not great for webbing and leather. It is getting a little crazy in certain parts of the county, like house flipping. Also saw an incredible fully functional industrial machine for only $150 in Austin, TX; Wife would kill me if I dragged that home.

I was hopping you could add that email response to a Sticky thread on "threads" in the "Tread Injector" sub-forum but I could not locate it so I just subscribed to this thread of yours. hint hint

[Boston]

I always thought "Sew-all" was the same as Mara, but other's here convinced me it was different. Guess I was right all along!

Thanks for posting this. For the record, I use Tera 80 (Tex 35) on all my projects.

[VictoriaGuy]

Thanks for posting this. Very helpful.


Wow what a fantastic response from a large corporation, don't often get service like that anymore.

+1
Thanks for that post (and for taking the trouble to email Gutermann).:thumbup1:

[Wkerber]

I started to keep a cheat sheet. I didn't fill in the needle sizes for the threads I wouldn't use.

(sorry, spreadsheet didn't copy very well)

Mara; Tex; Needle
220; 13;
120; 25;
100; 30; "10-12" (sew-all)
70; 40; "14-16"
30; 100;



TERA; TEX; Needle
80; 35; "10-14"
60; 50; "14-16"
40; 75; "16-18"
30; 100;
20; 150;
15; 200;
10; 290;
8; 375;





This is from another HF member's post and I use it as a guide as well.


Thread/Needle selection by project

OK, here's a simple chart that I use with great success building quilts, packs & tarps:

Quilt seams & hems: M50/M90/1.1 rip (uncoated) - Microtex 70/10 with Gutermann "SewAll" ie Mara 100 (Tex 30)

Tarp & pack seams & hems: 1.3 sil (1.1 coated) - Microtex 80/12 with Guterman Mara 70 (Tex 40)

Tarp tie-outs; pack attach points & buckles (shoulder, sternum & hip straps) - Microtex 90/14 with Gutermann Mar 70 (Tex 40)

[sandmaker]

Thanks for this post. Very helpful. And that's some great customer service.

[gmcttr]

Yes, their CS is top notch. When I emailed them a couple of years ago with questions, the reply only asked for my phone number. A few minutes later, I got a call that lasted at least 30 minutes to make sure they understood my experience level and what sewing machines I would be using so the most appropriate answers could be provided.

[miyanc]

Depending on where I look, the vendor descriptions on some of the Gutermann threads have been a bit confusing. Some vendors are great at telling you exactly what you are getting (i.e. Mara vs.Tera vs. Sew-All with corresponding Tex sizes) while others are a little vague ("Standard Weight", "Extra Strong", etc.). I thought I'd post a clarification that I received from their national sales manager.

Thank you for your inquiry about the Gütermann products you see in the various markets.

Mara is a MicroCore, Spun Polyester thread, made in many Tex sizes and is typically used for construction and decorative stitching on apparel, leather and accessories. The appearance of Mara is a low luster, matte finish with a 'natural' look of silk thread. The thinner Tex sizes are used for garment construction and the thicker Tex sizes are good for buttonholes, decorative topstitching (denim) and leather accent stitching on handbags, wallets, belts, etc.

Tera is a Continuous Filament polyester thread that is made in a different technique and is known for it silky, shiny surface, and strong resistance to abrasion. Tera is slightly stronger than Mara (pound for pound) in like Tex sizes and Tera is normally used for upholstery, leather stitching, outdoor fabrics (awnings, marine upholstery, umbrellas etc.

Both threads are made of 100% polyester, so they both have similar resistance to UV and chlorine, but normally Tera is more commonly used outside or in high sunlight exposure.

Sometimes, people use names that are confusing and normally, our Gutermann customers use the threads 'proper name as shown on the cone or spool. Some retailers use descriptions of the thread that do not match the thread name and this is a little misleading. The Sew All thread you see in Joanne stores or other retail fabric shops is Mara 100 (Tex 30). The heavy topstitch or heavy duty Mara is normally Mara 30 (Tex 100), typically used for denim. This is also called jeans topstitch thread.
Tera is found in some retail stores under the name "Upholstery thread) and this is Tera 40 (Tex 75).

Most Distributors use the actual thread name like Mara or Tera and use the corresponding Tex size to describe the weight or thickness of the thread.
For hammocks, backpacks or similar applications, the Tera 40 is my recommendation. It is available in most of our Distributors and the color range is fairly wide. The thinner Tera threads are great for ripstop nylon as this fabric has a tendency to pucker - so the thinner the thread, the smaller the needle and the least amount of pucker. In that case, Tera 80 (Tex 35) is perfect. This thread is not as widely distributed as Tera 40, but should be carried by more Distributors in the future.

I hope this helps clear up your questions. If you are using Industrial machines, I suggest you look at the websites for Cleaners Supply, Outdoor Wilderness, RockyWoods, Bergen Tailors Supply or Oshman Brothers.

Thanks again for your interest in Gutermann and let me know if you have further questions.
Best, Kathy


Kathy V. Kierce
National Sales Manager
Gütermann of America, Inc.
[email protected]
Phone/Fax: (828) 966-4799
Blackberry (203) 803-0423
www.guetermann.com

And in a follow up email, Kathy mentioned this. Just an FYI

It is so important that people understand the technical properties of the thread and I would like to see if one of the Distributors would "get on board" and stock more of the Tera for people like yourself. Outdoor Wilderness in ID is the most likely, but if you have other sources that could service this - I am happy to reach out to them as well.
You can call me anytime or email - I am happy to help.
Gutermann has been acquired recently by A&E thread and they have a large base of Distributors that also carry a similar product and we might be able to find a Distributor that can stock both products and offer a good assortment of color. This would be in the future, but it makes sense to have a good source for you to purchase the best products.

I had asked a question about thread a few days ago. This is perfect. I thank you spaceman. This should also be a sticky.

[Osulagh]

Gotta give big thanks for this. I ordered a sewing machine and Gutterman thread off amazon and couldn't find much. I got their "Sew-all" stuff and was kind of panicking for a bit when it might not be all poly. But it's great that it's just re-branded stuff.

BTW, just tried that thread out. No problems whatsoever.

[miyanc]

Ok so I read this and just want to clarify. She says tera 40 is what we should use, but what tex? The part about top stitch denim says tera 40 (tex75). Is this the one?

[SimonMc]

Ok so I read this and just want to clarify. She says tera 40 is what we should use, but what tex? The part about top stitch denim says tera 40 (tex75). Is this the one?

Tera 40 is Tex 75 so yes.

[gmcttr]

Keep in mind that she is still thinking of hammocks and backpacks as being made of heavy materials. She also says "The thinner Tera threads are great for ripstop nylon as this fabric has a tendency to pucker - so the thinner the thread, the smaller the needle and the least amount of pucker. In that case, Tera 80 (Tex 35) is perfect".

I'll continue to use Mara 70 (Tex 40) for hammocks and reserve the Tera 40 for climbing slings made 4000 lb rated webbing.

[TZBrown]

BUMP to an older thread that has some good information in it

[xxl_hanger]

Tera 80 (Tex 35) is imo the perfect Sew All thread for use. It is stronger than Mara 100 (tex 30 = Sew all thread), only a bit thinner than Mara 70 (tex 40) but has a much smoother and nicer surface. The recommend needle sizes for Tera 80 are #10-#14 and for Mara 70 #14-#16.

Tera 80 was developed for industrial sewing machines and is sold an Kingspools only. Therefore you need something like a thread stand if you use it in conjunction with a home sewing machine. The cheapest and easiest one is a plastic bottle where the bottom is cut off. Tera 80 is rare because it is sold to industrial customers only. But if you get it somewhere (i bought it on Ebay) it can be much cheaper than Sew all thread.

I use in general a #14 Schmetz Universal needle with Tera 80. But I can always use a #10 or #12 Schmetz Microtex or a #11 Schmetz Quilting needle too.

[TZBrown]

Tera 80 Tex 35 is available at Rockywoods

http://www.rockywoods.com/Hardware-Zippers/Heavy-Sewing-Thread/Gutermann-TERA-80-Polyester-Thread

[xxl_hanger]

Units of Textile Measurement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Units_of_textile_measurement)
Gütermann Numbering System (https://www.guetermann.com/shop/en/view/content/Industry_Numbering_System?node=Industry-Numbering-System)

1 tex = 1 gram per 1,000 meters = 10 dtex = 9 den
Nm = 1000/tex
The No./Tkt. is a development of the Nm, but does not inform about how many individual threads the ply-yarn has been produced. No. 100 may be a Nm 65/2 or a Nm 100/3 thread for example.

Mara 100 (https://www.guetermann.com/shop/en/view/content/guet_productDetail?currentProduct=mara_100) = Sew-all Thread (https://www.guetermann.com/shop/en/view/content/guet_productDetail?currentProduct=Allesn%C3%A4her&showprices=false&node=Consumer-Sew-all-Thread&type=consumer) = tex 30 = dtex 300(2) = two-ply yarn.
Recommended needle and needle size: universal needle NM 70 - 90 / #10 - #14
"Mara 100" is sold to industrial customers, "Sew-all thread" to end customers in retail shops.
The quality is the same, but the price in retail shops is often too high.

Mara 70 (https://www.guetermann.com/shop/de/view/content/guet_productDetail?currentProduct=mara_70&showprices=true&node=Industry-Leather-Mara&type=) = tex 40 = dtex 400(3) = three-ply yarn
Recommended needle size: NM 90 - 100 / #14 - #16
Mara 70 is sold to industrial customers only, but available here:
http://diygearsupply.com/product/gutermann-mara/
http://www.dutchwaregear.com/gutermann-thread.html
http://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/gutermann-mara-70

Mara 50 (https://www.guetermann.com/shop/en/view/content/guet_productDetail?currentProduct=mara_50&showprices=&node=Seam-Competence-Elastic-Seams&type=industry) = tex 60 = dtex 600(3) = three ply yarn.
Recommended needle size: NM 90 - 110 / #14 - #18
Mara 50 is sold to industrial customers only, but available here:
http://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/gutermann-mara-50-thread

Tera 80 (https://www.guetermann.com/shop/en/view/content/guet_productDetail?currentProduct=tera_80&showprices=true&node=&type=) = tex 35 = dtex 350(3) = three-ply yarn.
Recommended needle size: NM 70 - 90 / #10 - #14
Tera 80 is sold to industrial customers only, but available here:
http://diygearsupply.com/product/gutermann-tera/
http://www.rockywoods.com/Hardware-Zippers/Heavy-Sewing-Thread/Gutermann-TERA-80-Polyester-Thread

Tera 60 (https://www.guetermann.com/shop/en/view/content/guet_productDetail?currentProduct=tera_60&showprices=true&node=&type=) = tex 50 = dtex 500(3) = three-ply yarn.
Recommended needle size: NM 90 - 100 / #14 - #16
Tera 60 is sold to industrial customers only, but available here:
http://diygearsupply.com/product/gutermann-tera/

Tera 40 (https://www.guetermann.com/shop/en/view/content/guet_productDetail?currentProduct=tera_40&showprices=true&node=&type=) = tex 75 = dtex 750(3) = three-ply yarn.
Recommended needle size: NM 90 - 110 / #14 - #18
Some household sewing machines don't work with a #18 needle and Tera 40.
Tera 40 is sold to industrial customers only, but available here:
http://diygearsupply.com/product/gutermann-tera/


Kite Sewing 101 Recommendations. Also helpful for us:
https://sites.google.com/site/kites4all/home/kite-sewing-101

[Spaceman]

Nice post, XXL_Hanger!

[xxl_hanger]

The kite sewing convention recommends old sewing machines ("Older is generally better") and a #14 needle for sewing ripstop nylon. It is also recommended that you set your bottom tension first, before you adjust the top tension. This is not what Ramblinrev recommends because he is worried that you mess up the bottom tension and get serious problems later. Most likely he is right when you buy or use a new sewing machine. With any very old CB gripper machine I recommend the following check (clean your bobbin case first - also below the spring if you can):

Lower thread tension adjustment (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COydYUhLGS4)

This method works with all my old ("iron swine") sewing machines and in conjunction with all abovementioned Gütermann threads perfectly fine.

[xxl_hanger]

1000m spools of Gütermann MARA 100 are available here in a lot of colors and for a fair price:

http://www.rockywoods.com/Hardware-Zippers/Heavy-Sewing-Thread/1000m-spool-of-Gutermann-MARA-100-100-polyester-thread

I pay more for a 200m spool of Sew-All Thread in Germany!

[Flatliner]

This thread should be a sticky if it isn't already...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[teepee]

This thread should be a sticky if it isn't already...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. maybe un-zombifying it? :

Great info in the OP, better than pretty much anywhere else. My remaining confusion, then is - why is the smallest size recommended Tera80 / Tex35? This is a LOT larger than ~similar uses in "normal" (hehe. Outside of MYOG).

I make my own UL and bikepacking gear. so that's ~0.7 oz/yd ripstop nylon for UL tarps through 3oz/yd bags. On the LIGHTEST end of that scale, tex35 seems way too big. tera180 (ONE-eighty) at tex16 would seem to make a lot more sense. smaller holes, less puckering, seam itself still a hell of a lot stronger than the fabric it would seem.

But, zero MYOG suppliers stock this, afaict?? I'm not saying Tera80 is _bad_, but I don't mind keeping a few spools of an additional type of thread around to get better results for the really light stuff.

Thoughts? Thanks!

[slugbait]

Yes- sticky please. I use Gutterman Sews-All for most projects. Stitching a seam twice if I think it's needed. I use Gutterman Upholstery thread with heavier fabrics (sometimes).

[Bothwell Voyageur]

Rockywoods also has Tera 40

[BikerDad]

HOW MANY TIMES DOES MAKING THIS A STICKY HAVE TO BE SUGGESTED?!!!

This looks to be the closest to a GOOD single explanation of thread selection I've been able to find, with some bonus info regarding the technical characteristics of the Gutermann threads.

I would try to craft such a post myself, BUT I don't even sew, I'm simply trying to figure out what frickin' thread to get for my daughter who DOES sew and will be making some mesh (snakeskins, fronkeys) and Dutch Wide Asym Tarp kits for me. Neither the Kit page, nor the tutorial page even MENTION thread. (yes, that's on Dutch.) Why the heck is this so blasted hard to find? it seems like it should be remarkably simple.

Fabric X > Application Y > Thread Z (alternate Thread Z2) > Needle W
Fabric A > Application B > Thread Z2 > Needle W2
etc > etc > etc > etc.

IN ONE PLACE.
STICKIED.
SO NOOBS AND THE IGNORANT LOOKING TO REDUCE THEIR IGNORANCE (LIKE ME) CAN FIND AND UNDERSTAND IT.

[SutterButtes]

Wawak.com has Mara 30, 70, 80 [only in white], 100 (AKA Sews-All), 120, 150 and 220 available in 42 - 700 colors.
They also have Tera 40, 60 and 420 available in 10 - 19 colors.
Prices are very reasonable.

[SutterButtes]

I would like to add that as someone who is new to both hammocks and DIY I found this thread to be very helpful. I found it about 2 weeks ago but I wish I'd found it a year ago. I agree that it would be nice to have it in the DIY sticky subforum for future reference.

[OneClick]

Wawak.com has Mara 30, 70, 80 [only in white], 100 (AKA Sews-All), 120, 150 and 220 available in 42 - 700 colors.
They also have Tera 40, 60 and 420 available in 10 - 19 colors.
Prices are very reasonable.

Good old thread. Ahhh I see what I did there ;)

I just stumbled across Wawak.com as well. I ordered Tera 80 in 4 colors. They have 29 colors!! :thumbup: $2.95 for 874yds! Come on now.

After a ton of research, that seems to be the best all-around thread if you don't want to be swapping all the time. Smaller needle, smaller holes (think about waterproofing), less puckering for the lighter stuff we sew (silpoly and silnylon). Use #10, 12 or 14 needle, but I feel that 14 would be overkill for most fabrics. I mismatch 12 and 14 on heavy stuff like straps.

My only consideration now is when using universal vs. sharp needles. I have a selection of both but don't think it's a big issue.

[Cruiser51]

Just did the same thing, ordered four colours to test Tera 80 (black, blue, red & gray) from Rockywoods. First impressions are that it just sews a lot smoother, even the machine sounds quieter ..... my plan is to swap to this for most projects.

Brian

[OneClick]

Just did the same thing, ordered four colours to test Tera 80 (black, blue, red & gray) from Rockywoods. First impressions are that it just sews a lot smoother, even the machine sounds quieter ..... my plan is to swap to this for most projects.


Ha! Went to that site too but it seemed like I had to make an account to check out. No big deal, but I just have too many accounts out there it's getting crazy. Glad to hear it working smooth!

[OlTrailDog]

Wow, what an incredibly useful thread (pun barf). And to reiterate what an educational reply from Gutterman. Last winter I used Mara 70 on several hammocks including a 90 degree that probably has something like 6x the amount of sewing than a GE and I did not have one mess up with the thread. Nothing I could blame on the machine. That doesn't compare to previous experiences. It made me a believer in Gutterman. Now it looks like I completely used the wrong thread ;-). I just getting ready to fire up the machine for winter project and that Tera is going to be on the machine. Thanks whoever resurrected this thread, err, post.

[VictoriaGuy]

Cleaners Supply is a good source for Gutermann thread including Tera and they have a Canadian website, too.
Also a good source for scissors, marking chalk, etc etc...

[WV]

My choice for one thread that does it all was Tera 60, but I branched out and now use Tera 80 for quilts and Tera 40 for webbing and parts of bridge hammocks that will receive more stress. I still use Tera 60, too. Wawak.com is a good source.

[Cruiser51]

Cleaners Supply is a good source for Gutermann thread including Tera and they have a Canadian website, too.
Also a good source for scissors, marking chalk, etc etc...


VG, you had me all excited for a Canadian source, but it doesn't look like they carry Terra 80 ... they have some other Terra's, but not the selection at Rockywoods

[hutzelbein]

My problems with the Tera line are, that there's only a fraction of the colors available, and that the thread ends tend to unravel really easy. Also my machine doesn't seem to like the slipperiness of the Tera thread. I have never had problems with Mara, so I switched back after a couple of rolls.

[OneClick]

I received this last night. Buttery smooth! Colors all match up well to what I was going for, even though I often like black against most fabric for a little contrast. I will order a darker gray since the one I got was lighter than expected. Good stuff!