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View Full Version : Gram Weenie, WBBB, Yeti, Nunatak questions



thinkpol
08-09-2009, 17:55
Primary uses will be for 3-4 day trips to Yosemite, JMT, Joshua Tree, 2+ week PCT section hikes as well as the full PCT next year. I've learned a lot lurking here the past week or so but would like some practical advice.
I am trying to keep my base pack weight below 8lbs. From my experience a good nights sleep makes your day on the trail more enjoyable and gives me much more endurance (would like to keep 25mi/day pace). I'm sick of the aches and pains (knee, hip, back) of ground sleeping that I've been subjected to throughout my time in the military and ready to RELAX, at least at night!

[Sleep/Shelter]
Blackbird Single 1.1 (17oz)
Yeti UQ (10oz?)
MacCat Standard Spinn (8oz?)
Nunatak Arc Specialist (17oz)
4x Carbon Fiber Ti-Goat Stakes (.88 oz)
Suspension?

[Other Gear]
Patagonia Capalene 3 tops and bottoms (5.8 and 4.8oz)
ULA Conduit (20oz)


I've read a bit about the "Whoopie Sling Suspension". About how much does this weigh?
I realize I can go lighter with the pack but I would rather not sacrifice durability in this category.

Will there be durability issues with the single 1.1? I was also considering getting the double layered 1.1 to put a GG thinlight in between.

Will I need a Down Insulating jacket layer? I've never felt the need for anything like this in the military, while keeping active thin fleece baselayers were always enough. I don't plan on bringing rain pants. Are there any jackets out there that can/should be used for not only a rain jacket but a windjacket (concerned about breathability)?

Take-a-knee
08-09-2009, 19:53
I would go with a JRB No Sniveler top quilt, the head hole allows it to function as cold weather clothing. Also get the JRB Hood and order the hood attachment kit (some omni tape, it's free with the hood, just ask) and sew the omni tape to the collar of nice, light, puffy vest like a Western Mountaineering or Feathered Friends model. The vest, quilt, and hood will weigh about two pounds. Wearing it all, you should be able to sleep down to 20 F. JRB also makes some add on sleeves you can add to the system.

There are lots of new light weight coated/breathable fabrics out there. Mountain Hardware has a jacket that weighs eight ounces. How well does it work, I have no idea. The event jackets from Integral Designs are highly rated and highly breathable.

MedicineMan
08-09-2009, 20:20
Yeti/BB Single 1.7......whoopie slings just add weight as due ascenders/amsteel compared to the normal line to the single triangle and a slipped buntline hitch (which if you practice it you'll see it adjusts quick enough)/Nunatak Arc AT......here's the difference...in the fringe seasons I'm using the Arc AT and a down parka/jackete/sweater depending on expected temps. It of course doubles as my camp jacket. The Arc At is 8oz I think and rated to 40F...I also carry Smartwool tights--always, no matter if summer. My size large is 5.5oz and they greatly enhance the 40F rating of the Arc AT.
My current go to campsleep jacket is the Patagonia Down Hoodie but often it is too warm and a WM Flash is on order (2week expected delivery) for the next big sextion hike....along with the SM tights I've always carried the Patagonia Axuwool Hoodie (even in summer..my backyard is Roan Mountain over 6000 feet and even in July the temps can plummet)......trying to replace the Axuwool with a Beartooth Merino Hoody, that will save me 5-6 more ounces yet still be very warm under the Flash.
I use an Ion rain jacket which can add a little more r-value to the top but am studying one of the sil-nyl ponchos at Mountain Laurel.......
so only advice i can offer is consider combining your campjacket with your sleep system.
Forget...under my legs a foam sit pad but am trying to add a NeoAir seat explicity for that.

warbonnetguy
08-10-2009, 01:08
3 season yeti is about 12.5 and good to 20's for warm sleepers and 30's for cold sleepers

as far as the single 1.1 bb goes, how much do you weigh?

thinkpol
08-10-2009, 07:58
If I had the Typhoon Buff would I still need a down balaclava?

https://www.buffwear.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/1_18

I weigh about 180lbs.

As of right now on my spreadsheet I've got the JRB Hudson River which is 3 oz heavier than the Arc Specialist but it has 3 more oz of down.

If I got the double 1.1 I could get the 3/8" Thinlight: http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/thinlight.html

I do really like the idea of the 3/4 length sleeping bag to go with a down jacket but I'm just worried that it won't be rated cold enough. The Nunatak Arc AT + Skaha saves me like 12oz.

thinkpol
08-10-2009, 08:07
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgQJJ2fvAxnzdDFxWFZXenVPZFhPV0tJZXlzZHJjY 2c&hl=en
My first spreadsheet, not complete and a few of the weights arent exact.
I would like to be at 7lb base weight after clipping stuff.

Cannibal
08-10-2009, 08:47
I was getting ready to tell you that the Standard MacCat is a very close fit on the Blackbirds, but then I saw where you'll be camping; not too much to worry about. :D

Standard Spinn MacCat is 8.4 or 8.5 oz, don't remember. I'd also go with TAK's suggestion of a No Sniveler from the Jacks. It will solve your need for a down jacket (awfully nice to have around camp) and make an excellent top quilt for only 3 oz more than the Nunatak and a $100 less expensive!

Welcome to the forum.

te-wa
08-10-2009, 10:23
Standard Spinn MacCat is 8.4 or 8.5 oz, .
remember, after seam sealing (factory applied) and stuff sack the Spinn Standard will weigh 10.2oz
with guylines, 2 niteize small and 4 ti skewer stakes mine is 11.9oz.

if i was to do it again, i would carry an extra ounce to get the Deluxe. the amount of coverage it offers is worth an ounce.

also, i would not skimp on sleeping gear - several degrees R value can be used to keep you warm at night coming in only the weight of say, a Snickers bar. I have seen and used a Nunatak quilt, very nicely made as you know but IMHO you should keep the Arc Series (NO need for the "Specialist" as it is extra width you wont need inside your hammock) and go with the Ghost. On second thought, as i understand it the consentual wisdom is to carry a 20 rated bag in the Sierra (*edit - even in mid-summer), so maybe the Alpinist is the ticket here.

my personal setup for the mid twenties includes a DIY 16oz down quilt, a Montbell Inner Parka, a Cocoon 60 balaclava with lightweight smartwool top. Leggings are optional and up to now i have not worn them.. but man - those Montbell Down inner pants sure do look fantastic. Im not sure its 7oz i would be willing to carry, or spend $$ on.

fwiw, my base weight only nears or surpasses the 8lb mark in winter conditions. usually it hovers around 6lbs.

the only thing i have reservations for when it comes to the sierra is that blasted 3lb bear canister. please, please wont somebody give approval for the Palisade? (http://www.wilderness-solutions.com/palisade_est.htm)

lori
08-10-2009, 10:39
I was getting ready to tell you that the Standard MacCat is a very close fit on the Blackbirds, but then I saw where you'll be camping; not too much to worry about. :D


You're kidding, right?

I was wanting my 10x12 cat tarp last week, instead of the Deluxe MacCat.

The High Sierras are very unpredictable and it's better to have what you need and not use it than to not have it and bail on a trip. Or get frozen. For a great example, check out the trail journal of Censored, from the midwest and hiking the PCT: http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?entry_id=8688

She found out pretty quick that hiking early season (for the Sierras) with a 32F Nunatuk bag and minimal ultralight gear is not always a good combo. She's very lucky that hiking in sandals did not result in losing toes.

The story has already circulated and been torn up in other forums.... I'm not trying to threadjack here or derail the topic at hand, which is OP's gear list and wanting to balance lightweight with adequate gear for the destinations he is listing. But underestimating the possible changes in Sierra weather is often fatal. This gal walked out on her own and is still walking, and hopefully better equipped. I note that she did mention actually buying SHOES. But it's interesting how her further entries are not about the trail at all.... She's pulled in a lot of criticism for her misuse of SPOT, and probably on the defensive. I only mention it as one of many examples of being unprepared and regretting it. I hiked out to Agnew last Thursday with at least ten others, folks who were up over 10,000 feet and hustling to lower elevation wearing their shorts and t shirts, trying to beat the snow.

So for my money, a larger tarp is better. Wind driven precipitation happens. 20F weather happens, in summer, as low as Mammoth Lakes.

Cannibal
08-10-2009, 10:51
remember, after seam sealing (factory applied) and stuff sack the Spinn Standard will weigh 10.2oz
with guylines, 2 niteize small and 4 ti skewer stakes mine is 11.9oz.

if i was to do it again, i would carry an extra ounce to get the Deluxe. the amount of coverage it offers is worth an ounce.
I haven't put mine on the scales with all the rigging attached, but the base weight of my Standard Spinn MacCat is 7.2 or 7.4 ounces. Not sure why the newer ones are a tad heavier. That weight is minus the stuff sack, but with any seam sealing. I agree about the Deluxe size. I have one in sil and it fits over the Blackbird much easier. :shades:


You're kidding, right?

I was wanting my 10x12 cat tarp last week, instead of the Deluxe MacCat.

The High Sierras are very unpredictable and it's better to have what you need and not use it than to not have it and bail on a trip. Or get frozen. For a great example, check out the trail journal of Censored, from the midwest and hiking the PCT: http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?entry_id=8688
Yeah, I come from the family that Donner Lake and Donner Pass are named after. I understand the weather in the Sierras can be deadly. ;)
But, I didn't think they got that much rain during the warmer months. Am I wrong? I honestly don't know, just an assumption on my part. I'll always bow to local knowledge.

Topplestack
08-10-2009, 16:05
I'm using a 1.1oz single and I'm about 175. I'm happy with the 1.1 single, but then mine is a DIY and I did not fork out a lot of money for it. The issue is how long do you want it to last?

As for the Sierras this time of year. I would have no problems going up there with a MacCat Standard. Atleast not this time of the month. Come late August and I might think otherwise, you might get some short hard showers here and there, but nothing that last too long. The big issue this time of year is the wind. You'll want to hang on the lee side as much as possible as the winds especially in the heights can get up into the 40+mph range at times. You'll want to pitch your windward side low to the ground and your hammock close to your tarp ridgeline.

thinkpol
08-10-2009, 18:52
I would guess that to have the No Sniveller replace the down jacket you'd have to use it as a poncho liner so that it is protected from rain/snow. Would this be correct? Would having the No Sniv under a rain jacket and tucking the bottom into your pants work? Or possibly just buy the rain jacket so that its a bit oversized?


Lori - That's a scary story! Reminds me of the time I slept in -15 degree windchill with a half wet down bag. During basic training we were all forced to sleep in below freezing temps without sleeping bags, we'd all huddle up next to eachother and try to shield ourselves from the wind with our canvas shelter halves.

I really want to have a completely comfortable sleep system (this is my "luxury" item I suppose) while still maintaining a light pack (sub 7-8lbs). I'm a light sleeper, I toss and turn if I'm not comfy. I actually tossed and turned in my bed last night because I fell asleep with my clothes on.

Anyone have any idea how much insulation the GG Thinlight would provide? (temp) I wouldn't mind having it to use as a sit pad under the hammock or as an emergency sleeping pad (gather up some pine needles under it) if I can't find any trees.

I was thinking about going lighter than the Conduit with a MLD Prophet (10.8 oz, 2900 ci) or a MLD Exodus (13.8oz, 3600ci).

lori
08-10-2009, 19:19
I'm just sayin, last week, if it hadn't been so cold that it snowed, we'd have gotten wind driven rain. I'm totally comfort driven and wanted those doors to close down - I've gotten through some gusty wind in the coast range with that nice large tarp. The wind up there was inescapable; I wandered all up and down and even in the sheltered areas we found, we still had gusts shooting up inside the tent flies. Most of the wind was moving over us and once in a while it would scoot up the granite inside, and nothing you can do about it.

The Deluxe performed nicely for me - I used a grip clip to close down the foot end over the foot box and crossed the guy lines, keeping most of the arctic blasts out of the hammock - but it was a tad closed in. Which is another concern with me, as I'm claustrophobic and waking up to feeling closed in may result in some severe panicky stuff in the morning. Your Comfort Level May Vary.

I really didn't mind the snow - it wasn't piling up in drifts, and wouldn't have led to postholing along the trail. But it easily could have been very bad very fast.

thinkpol
08-10-2009, 21:20
Has anyone used the No Sniveller in place of a down jacket in cold weather? Please share! : )

Cannibal
08-10-2009, 23:13
Has anyone used the No Sniveller in place of a down jacket in cold weather? Please share! : )
I've used it's big brother the Rocky Mountain Sniveler around camp. I stay warm enough when I'm moving, so the only time I really need/want it is once I've stopped moving. They really do a great job of keeping the core warm. Get some of the down sleeves from the Jacks and you've got a very effective, albeit funny looking, down jacket for camp. :shades:

thinkpol
08-10-2009, 23:15
QUESTION!

Which would be more durable, the double 1.1 Blackbird or the single 1.7?
I like the added bonus of being able to put an insulating pad between the 1.1 layers, but if the 1.7 is more durable I'd go with that.
Thanks.

Cannibal
08-10-2009, 23:18
I don't know. The only piece of Warbonnet gear I've been able to wear-out so far is a stuff sack. :rolleyes:
I'd think two layers are better than one regarding wear and tear, but that's just a guess on my part.

thinkpol
08-10-2009, 23:43
Has anyone tried bunk beds? My GF and I both want Blackbirds, I was thinking if i helped her up she'd be able to sleep up top.

If this were (safe) and possible would 1 deluxe maccat be able to cover both of us?


Nunatak Arc Alpinist - 21 oz weight, 11 oz of down - $387
Jacks R Better Hudson River - 20 oz weight, 11 oz down - $250

What is the actual difference? They both have almost the same temperature rating, they both use 800 fill down.
Any reason to choose the No Sniveller over the Hudson River? Just for the added use of being able to wear it?

Topplestack
08-11-2009, 00:43
QUESTION!

Which would be more durable, the double 1.1 Blackbird or the single 1.7?
I like the added bonus of being able to put an insulating pad between the 1.1 layers, but if the 1.7 is more durable I'd go with that.
Thanks.

The 1.7 will definately be more durable for you, but it doesn't mean that the 1.1 won't last you a while either. I like the 1.1 for me, but that is only because I made mine myself for cheap and I go for SUL as much as possible. Doesn't mean I don't carry alot of gear, just what I carry is light. If you are going to fork out the dough for a commercial hammock. Get you one that will last.

Take-a-knee
08-11-2009, 13:28
Has anyone used the No Sniveller in place of a down jacket in cold weather? Please share! : )

This guy used one for 6000 miles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8A_7ko0an4

http://www.francistapon.com/Travels/Continental-Divide-Trail/CDT-Gear-List

Francis started out with a 2' baffle No Sniveler, after freezing his a$$ off and phoning JRB, the Rocky Mountain No Sniveler was born and shipped to him post haste.

thinkpol
08-11-2009, 18:55
Thanks for the link Take-a-knee, a lot of good info on that site. I loved the "Gear Rant".
On his Gear list it says that after september he uses a golite down parka, i was wondering if you could use the no sniv to replace it with a poncho? does he do this?

I have 2 excel spreadsheets, 1 hammock and 1 ground dweller. its about 2lbs extra for hammocking :*(
Is this about what everyone else comes up with?