Hey all, just wondering why pads seem to be hated. Never used a underquilt yet, been fine with pads and sleeping bag. (Don't even have a normal pad, I use a yoga mat.:lol: :confused:
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Hey all, just wondering why pads seem to be hated. Never used a underquilt yet, been fine with pads and sleeping bag. (Don't even have a normal pad, I use a yoga mat.:lol: :confused:
The blue foam.pads are a bit stiff and there is of course issues with condensation... I find them way less comfortable than my underquilt which is barely noticeable on my hammock... That being said they are a necessary evil sometimes... Like when stretching your 40* under quilt to the teens...
They are useful and some people use them exclusively, but an underquilt is more comfortable to me...
Personally, I don't use a mat for two reasons. 1. It moves. I move around during the night and well, I move the pad moves the wrong way and I have to adjust several times during the night. Not only that, but getting out/back in the hammock is a pain because the pad moves and comes half way out with me. 2. Warmth. I seem to stay a lot warmer with an UQ on the outside. The pad just doesn't seem to block the cold as well somehow.
This is just my opinion though, hope it helps.
I find that an UQ is just much more comforatable for me. I like being wrapped in my cocoon of downy goodness. If youre looking for a way to get into UQ for cheep and have some sewing skills or know someone nice enough to help you the diy insultex underquilt on diygearsupply.com is highly recomended. It probably weighs about the same as your yoga mat and it only costs about $40 for the materials.
One reason I think is because it's just so nice to be wrapped above and below in down. Very cocoon like feeling. However I think pads work just as well in some applications like in the JRB bmbh.
Down! Easier to pack, Easier to set up and keep there, Like sleeping on a cloud a UQ is, but,,,alot guys will say the same thing about a pad. Hang your hang, do your thingy. :)
Pads can be uncomfortable. But, they are both lighter and cheaper than a good under quilt. Some of the discomfort of a pad can be mitigated by using a double layered hammock and putting the pad between the two layers. Also, for a hammock, you need a wider pad than you do if you sleep on the ground. A 20" wide pad just doesn't work, you need about 25" to 30" wide pad in a hammock.
I agree, I think it has ALOT to do with what hammock you use. My bridge conforms perfectly to pad use, I actually like the lay more with pads than without, its flatter and more stable with a pad. My RR is for 3 seasons.
Not so with my Snipe. I've tried a pad in it, and with me, it ruins the lay. I want my back to conform and give in to the natural curve of a gathered end. It is my summer choice of hammock.
I like hammocks because of all the choices.
+1 on the moving around. My middle son is asking for an underquilt now because he keeps waking up with the pad either perpendicular to him, or on the ground!
If you don't move around much in your sleep then its not as bad. ;)
If you're a backpacker, pads use up a lot more space in the pack vs. a down UQ. Or you have to strap them outside the pack which makes it hard to find a packcover that fits.
The term pads is a broad category. those of us who use pads usually refer to ccf and not inflatables or self-inflaters. However, even with the correct pads, the hammock is the real key. Some think pads don't work because they don't work in their *system*. Some hammocks do not work with pads easily (if at all). The complaints about the pad moving around are hammock issues, not pad issues (unless they are trying to use an inflatable type). My hammock, for example, moving the pad is impossible even if trying to adjust it. Pads are very warm, often to warm in fact which leads to condensation issues. This isn't the fault of the pad, it is the person being too warm. For me, I don't use pads until the temp drops below freezing. Where pads really shine is subzero temps with lots of wind. Pads are incredible insulators, couple this with the fact they are vapor barriers and the heat stealing wind is kept at bay (one needs to also pitch their tarp appropriately). since UQ's are VERY susceptible to heat stealing wind, pads will be better choices in some situations. For me, I am just as comfortable in my hammock with either pads or uq's. Like I said before, the hammock is a key variable when using pads.
My 10 year old prefers the pad. He likes that it holds the hammock open while he is getting in and out. He puts the pad into his sleeping bag so he will stay on it. He did that on his own, I never told him to the morning after his first night it was there. when I questioned him he said it would sit still so he put it in there.
I don't think anyone 'hates' pads, just that most folk prefer being against nice soft material that conforms to your body's shape. The warm fluffy stuff underneath you feels quite nice as well. :D Saying that I've seen a few folk say they prefer pads... hyoh.
I've been trying to get my pad system just right because I'm too cheap (broke is more accurate) to buy an UQ and I've found the standard CCF pads to be the best. My Big Agnes Air Core moves way too much. That's getting filed under 'ground gear' from now on, which might as well be the 'for sale' bin.
The blue foam pads are cheap, light, warm, stay put well, and hold the hammock open so I can climb in without any effort... I can't ask for any more!
Pads...
Pros
Low cost
great insulator
large variety to choose from
Cons
Bulky
tend to shift alot in single layer hammocks
Condensation problems
I started off with pads and have used them down to 18 degrees in my double layer BB. I would not try to use a pad in a single layer hammock due to the pad shifting. Others have used them with great suscess in single layer hammocks. These days I use UQs as I find them much more comfortable to use.
I'm cool with a yoga mat and windshield reflector pad setup right now and thats down to 30*. Add my fleece and a 40* sleeping bag and I personally feel nice down in the 20's. Now I have been playing around with finding an offbrand/cheap sleeping bag that I could compress the **** out of and taking it as an adapted underquilt, but who knows.
Been using a 3/4 Thremarest and my sleeping bag as a top quilt.
No complaints from me.
But, here in South Texas, it doesn't get cold all that often.
So, an underquilt and official top quilt are on the DIY list down the road.
I have used a pad for a while, and my shoulders tend to get chilled. I think I'm a cold sleeper though - YMMV.
I have used the VCR blue pad and its fine for me once I get it adjusted. Once I fall asleep I rarely move so I don't have to worry about shifting. That being said, I want something wider, so I'm going to try to make a wider pad with reflectix (around the 26x40 range). Hope that works better, but for now I'm staying with the pad.
I never liked Reflectex.
they just always seemed to move around on me.
I'm toying with the uq idea though have no problems with my ccf mat except bulk. I've already destroyed an old sleeping bag trying to diy a uq but im going to try again, when I perfect it, I've got a down bag I want to convert but will put a dwr coated fabric on the outer due to the amount of rain up here.
Oh ive used the ccf mat in my double layer DD hammock and my single layer hammock as well as my self inflating mat and havent had them move around on me. I move around do much in my sleep I'm supprised I haven't worn a hole in my hammocks by now..
Good luck with it. I found reflectix more a heat sucker than an insulator. Maybe you will figure it in a better way.
I have a 20 degree under quilt but I still use a NeoAir mattress. It doesn't move around on me and I like the way it sleeps. It packs down to the size of a Nalgene bottle so size isn't an issue.
I checked him in the morning on the first night he did it and was dry. I was a little surprised. I know he was warmer than I was on that trip.
Ok, I'm going to try it, thanks.
Seems like most people don't like a pad in gathered end hammocks while a lot of people prefer using a pad in a bridge hammock. It's the other way around for me. In a gathered end hammock I find a pad helps alleviate some of the leg pressures that keep me awake. It is a bit of a pain to adjust and as the night progresses I find myself having to readjust, but it's more comfortable for me with the pad and a I've stayed warm using a sleeping bag and classic therma-rest into the 20's. I also prefer sleeping on the pad rather than putting it between a double layer. With the double layer I found that the pad still moved around but I had a harder time readjusting it.
This past week I got a bridge hammock and I've been sleeping in it. I like it better with an underquilt and no pad. The underquilt is nice because it stays in place and I can roll around as much as I need to without making adjustments. The bridge hammock solved my leg problems so I don't need a pad for that. I get some shoulder squeeze in my new bridge hammock but using a pad doesn't seem to help with that. That said I've also found there is a learning curve to using a quilt. It has taking me a bit of time to figure out how to set it up without getting cold air drafts. Where as the pad is simple, if you roll off it you will get cold and it's time to get it under you again.
Mostly it seems like everyones different and we've all got to find our own way.
I'm probably going to try to diy a underquilt, but keep the pad for extreme New Hampshire cold.
:boggle:i slept in a hammock for 9 years before i even knew there was such a thing as an underquilt, the first time i used a pad in my hammock ,i thought i had found heaven, no more cold butt, but anything that touched the sides froze.
when i bought my first uq ,i realised what true comfort really is,
i wish i had discovered hammock forums years before i did:sleep:
Here's my two cents on the subject.
There's nothing wrong with a pad for bottom insulation.
It is true that it takes some experience to do it right (for you).
BUT!!!
That's true for everything about hammocking (and change in general).
1. How many UQ people spent a few miserable nights until they figured how how to set up correctly (for them!!!) I'm one of them.
Hell! It took me two or three nights to even sleep through the night in my Hammock when I started.
2. There is, let's face it, a tendency to exalt the most expensive option available in gear as the only true option. I guess it's just human nature. It's sure true in camping gear. (ref. titanium as an example)
3. One advantage I can't argue with, is the ability of down to pack small. That goes for sleeping bags as well. Back packing is as much about cubic inches as it is pounds and ounces. One can minimize this by using your pad as the stiffener in your pack (coil it inside or use a Gearskin type pack.
Add me as another pad user. We just had a winter group hang. First night it got down to 17, the second night, 22. Both nights, I slept fine. I had a Gossamer Gear pad, and a Reflectix under that. I slept quite warmly, both nights. PERSONALLY, I like the pads better, as I can set it up faster, and its locked in, once I am in the hammock. I also like the flexibility of it. And, I could, in theory, pull it out to use as a sit pad, elsewhere, if I wanted to, I suppose. I own a UQ as well-I just dont use it all that much anymore.
A Walmart blue pad (or 2) is/are the most cost effextive under insulation that you can buy. A $5 blue pad will protect you to about 30deg f . I cut mone in half and lay side by side, overlapped to give a total width of about 30 inches, whcih protects my shoulders from cold. I use an Alps mountaineering 20 deg bag as a top quilt. Total weight 4-4 1/2 lb and cost about $40. I am on a very strict budget, and I cannot find any other configuration which even comes close to this. BTW, absolutely no discomfort whatsoever. No need to bother about rain splashes (as one does with a down UQ). Can use the pad as a kneel/sit pad around camp. Even as a PFD for river crossings:) . Rolled up, it can even be a load transfer stiffener for an UL backpack. Oh, and if you have to go to ground, it will insulate you there (and even give some comfort). Such versatility, such bombproofness, and such effectiveness, at such a low price. What's not to like/admire?
LazyCamper, are you, like Ducttape ( and Neo, both with pads in Claytor hammocks) one of those lucky souls who are just as comfy with a pad as with an UQ, or you feel your hammock and pad is about as comfy as the hammock with no pad except for the cold thing? Or close enough?
If so, then why would you ever consider an UQ? For most of us hangers, comfort is about 90% of the reason we went to hammocks. And for most of us, a pad is just not as comfy, even if it is still a lot more comfy than a pad on the ground. But comfort is the biggest reason folks don't like ( or even hate) pads. What about it Cannibal? Bulky comes in 2nd place, way less of an issue depending on what size and type of pack you are using. ( and by comfort I am including the sweat issue some have)
I find pads significantly less pleasant to use in most hammocks, way less of an issue with my JRB bridge. I have often been tempted to switch to pads in my bridge, the comfort is so close. So why- even if comfort is close - would I be tempted to switch, and why are pad users the lucky ones( if they are happy enough with their pads? )? Because pads are:
1: way less expensive, down right cheap!
2: way more durable. Hard to hurt CCF, and even inflatables can be patched. rip a hole in a 900 FP down UQ miles from the car, and it is a bad day in so many ways! ( not likely, but possible )
3: No fiddle factor ( assuming you can stay on your pad). Not so with UQs, just look at all the threads that are like: " Help, I was cold at 40 in my 20F UQ, what am I doing wrong?". Seen many threads like that? Sure Y'all have!
3: ~ windproof. ( UQs are not the least windproof, and see this current thread: http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=65859 )
4: ~ water proof.
5: probably lighter, if bulkier, for a given temp.
6: You are all set for any go to ground or shelter floor emergency
7: you probably already have some sort of pad with you anyway, as a sit pad or a frame for some packs.
8: multiple use item
Now if a person fit into the category of plenty comfy on a pad and bulk is not a big deal ( and most will not ), why would you fix what a'int broke? But for most of us it just is not as comfy, and that's the main point for this hammock thing, so we will just find a way to live with out those 8 pad pros! We will just suck it up! ;)
I can't be sure, because I've never slept in a underquilt. I may try to modify a couple of pads and see if I can sleep in comfort. I'm okay with my yoga mat, but it's not wide enough.(and it bunches up). I think I'll buy two Walmart pads and make a cold weather type pad with shoulder wings. So I'm not quite sure yet, but I think I'll keep tinkering with pads.
Thanks,
LazyCamper.
Pads can get you down to some low's. Last year, I got to the upper 20's. That said, I can't wait to get an UQ/TQ combo and get off the shifty pads. Just like in summer, I would feel nothing but a soft hammy under me.
I was going to follow the Golden Rule and stay out of this thread, but since you asked...
...yeah, they suck! :laugh:
As BillyBob stated, the issue for me is comfort. Not only do they not 'feel good' to me inside the hammock, but I sweat like nobody's business when laying on one in a hammock. Then there are the ridges that form under the sleeper and finding a way to incorporate a pad and all of its bulk into my packing methodology.
Like many, many others, pads were my gateway insulation. I used them because I didn't have anything else and didn't know any better. After my first night with an underquilt, there really wasn't anything to think about other than getting more underquilts.
If you have no issues with pads, there is no reason to look beyond. If you have one or two minor issues with pads, then an underquilt will be a welcome addition to your hammock arsenal. But....pads are a lot cheaper. Course, you have to remember the most basic of commercial rules; you get what you pay for.
I'm OK with pads... But I'm sure if I tried a good UQ I'd never want to go back... Which is why I won't let myself try one. :lol:
I always hated packing a pad and then if it was a blow up one, always a pain to inflate and deflate,,,,that is alittle time consuming,,heck,,,I even find them uncomfortable sitting on after 20 minutes on a rock or stump or log or even the ground for that matter. I will stick with packing the extra weight of a full size UQ and the absolute comfort of it for a great nites sleep with no fiddle factor either. I just love jumping in the hammock and feeling the AHHHHHHHHH!! :lol:
Cannibal - "you get what you pay for". Au contraire. A CCF pad is one of the most effective pieces of backpacking equipment that one can purchase, whether for ground or hammock. An $8 pad gives as much insulation as a $200 UQ, and much more reliably too. IMO, rather a lot of cash for a minor improvement in comfort.
I agreed with you all the way until this part. :D
For folks like me, the improvement is a very long ways from "minor". In fact, it is also a safety issue. I am a very warm sleeper who loves to camp in temps around zero. Spending the night in a constant sweat in those conditions is not good. The underquilts remove that concern completely, while bumping the comfort factor way up for me.
But like I said, if pads work for you then there is no reason to spend more money.
I think this is the bottom line. Of course you shouldn't buy an UQ if you're happy with your pad simply because a forum deems them better... But if you do find yourself wondering how much better it can get then maybe an UQ is for you.
I've found the following to be the answer to almost every question in life; 'it depends.' :lol:
i found the same thing, reflectix vs. ccf in 1/4"
reflectix weighs more and is not as warm. plus, it leaves a strange black residue when you rub it.
anyway, ive used pads even tho i had an underquilt in the gear closet. couple of times the temps were around 65 at night so i brought a section of ccf that was about 20x30"
then there was the time i FORGOT my UQ, and ended up borrowing a Prolite 3 - which took me down to 19 degrees w/out problems. just had to lay straight like a board for 8 hrs.. lol