How come...

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10-04-2007, 09:23
Cannibal

How come...

I know I'm violating some "man-law" here, but I think the question should be asked.

How many of you received an instruction sheet or directions of any kind when you made a 'camping' hammock purchase? I say camping hammocks because most (if not all) of the Brazilian, Mayan, etc. hammocks I've ordered have had at least a basic direction sheet.

I have purchased (new - camping style) a Warbonnet, ENO Single & Double, and a Traveler UL; I got my HH used. Not a one of them came with any kind of directions; well, the HH came with a 20 minute lesson from Hammock Engineer, but otherwise none.

I'm asking this because of the TrekLight Double I received earlier this week. I'm really trying to think like a newb (more so than I already do ;) ) while checking it out because I suspect this (and its cousins) would be a hammock that a new hanger would buy. It is inexpensive, looks good, and is widely available. One of the first things that occurred to me is how does a new hanger learn to hang; pictures!?

I know Hennessy has some pretty decent directions on their site, but suppose the hammock was a gift. Then what do you do? I guess I'm just curious if the manufacturers are even aware that the average person may not understand what seems really obvious to most of us here. Is it possible that they assume that as 'outdoorsy' folks we would just be more likely to get it? I know a lot of the manufacturers either participate in the forum or lurk in the shadows shaking their heads at some of our ideas. I'm curious as to why you wouldn't provide instructions or a note saying: "In order to learn to use your new hammock, you should visit: www.hammockforums.net". That would be fine too. :D

Am I way out in left field and just the unlucky consumer who didn't get the complete package on 5 separate occasions or is this a common experience? Just kind of thinking out loud on this one.
10-04-2007, 09:29
lvleph

HH comes with directions on the stuff sack. Not very good directions though.
10-04-2007, 09:29
Cuffs

I only own one hammock, an HH (at this time!) and there are printed hang directions on the stuff sack. Now, that said, I had to find another hanger to decipher the crayon-like drawing that describes the HH lashing. Lastly, I used the photos here on HF for tying the HH lashing (thanks whomever posted that, it was perfect!)

So, to answer you... yes, I think clearly written directions and photos should be included with purchase!
10-04-2007, 09:33
Cannibal

I haven't seen that stuff sack for about 4 months thanks to the blackbishop sacks. :o

OK, so Hennessy provides instructions on the stuff sack and online; that's one manufacturer. What about the others?
10-04-2007, 10:14
nogods

Clark instructions

I just got a Clark NA - it had two sheets with basic instructions and a more detailed booklet - which is available online at Clark. But before I got the hammock I had read a lot at this forum and other places so I can't say if the information in the instructions and booklet alone would have been sufficient.

As stated in another post, I also just ordered a Claytor Jungle hammock (my son wants the Clark) so I'll know in a week whether or not it comes with instructions.
10-04-2007, 11:19
TrekLightGear

Just wanted to let you all know that you're definitely right on about this being a fault on behalf of a number of the hammock manufacturers. You're absolutely right - there are plenty of people out there who don't know the first thing about the proper use of a hammock, and that includes the basics of just setting it up or how to lay in it.

When we (Trek Light) setup a booth at shows and events and get a chance to talk to people one on one, we use the opportunity to educate them as much as possible so they walk out of our booth with at least a good introduction to the world of portable hammocking. For the rest of our sales (which come through our website), we end up making an assumption in a lot of ways that folks are reading our FAQ, checking out the pictures on how to set up using the rope kit (or similar webbing), and that they'll drop us a line if they have any questions that aren't answered. Definitely room for improvement there and I'm glad to see this dialogue started.

Currently we're working on a number of things to remedy the situation (if you're interested) -

1) Including a small booklet with every hammock
2) Revamping our website so it's easier to navigate and find info and also provide many more resources for those interested in everything from basic to advanced knowledge.

And rest assured Cannibal, our new and improved website will certainly have a link to Hammock Forums!
10-04-2007, 11:37
Rapt

I have a hammock (my first) that was given to me. It looks a lot like the trek light hammocks...The attached stuff bag says "Nomads Hammock Land" on it.

It came with a one page line drawing instruction sheet that wasn't useful. I just assumed how to hang it and being a person used to ropes and such got it OK after a couple tries. The first few I didn't account for enough sag once I put my weight in it.

Then I started coming here and learned about webbing to protect trees and how to hang and making my own and, and, and... and so I rushed oyut amd made my own ...Tree straps, and hammock. Before I'm finished I'm sure I'll have made one for my girlfriend, along with trees straps, custom quick hang/adjust suspension, tarp(s) and underquilts for each.

Good directions will shorten the learning curve and reduce the number of people who give up and leave before they really start.
10-04-2007, 11:53
Jazilla

But if your buying a car don't you know how to drive. Same with a hammock. How many people buy hammocks with out ever seeing one or talking to someone who has one. They had to hear about it from somewhere before deciding to buy or else how would they have known to buy it.
10-04-2007, 12:06
Cuffs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazilla

But if your buying a car don't you know how to drive. Same with a hammock. How many people buy hammocks with out ever seeing one or talking to someone who has one. They had to hear about it from somewhere before deciding to buy or else how would they have known to buy it.

The "real" answer is yes. HOWEVER! When I was buying my real, own, very first, I paid for it myself car... It was a manual... it was years since drivers ed, and I had no idea how to drive it. I had a car-kinda-guy test drive it for me, he drove it home after the sale, and I proceeded to drive up and down the block, stalling all the way, until I finally got the hang of it. I drove that car to work the next morning (yes, stalled it several times enroute.)

So, sometimes directions are needed...
10-04-2007, 12:17
TrekLightGear

To be honest Jazilla, we see it all the time when we have our booth setup at a show. It's amazing how many people have never really thought twice about a hammock because all they've seen are the traditional rope or woven hammocks. We talk to people who haven't sat in a hammock in 20 years or even never at all, but they find themselves walking out of our booth excited about a hammock for possibly the first time ever.

It's certainly what makes our job great, but it also says something about the new design of hammocks. Making a hammock smaller, lighter and more comfortable doesn't pigeonhole your market into just the gear obsessed backpacker crowd - it actually makes them more accessible and opens the door to people who are giving hammocks a shot for the first time, even if they'll never leave their backyard with it.
10-04-2007, 12:34
Cannibal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapt

The first few I didn't account for enough sag once I put my weight in it.

Good directions will shorten the learning curve and reduce the number of people who give up and leave before they really start.

Those two thoughts summarize exactly what led me to posting this thread. I know that hammocks aren't for everyone (crazy), but I wonder how many people that "just didn't like it" had it hung correctly? Or for that matter, knew anything at all about sag.

I can say this as a person that has the proverbial T-shirt. The Traveler UL was my first flirt with a hammock and the first night I had that thing strung so tight I'm still surprised it didn't just shoot me out like a catapult when I first got in. Needless to say, I did not have a positive experience my first night. BTW, this is AFTER finding this site. I know, dumb! :o

I did come back to HF the next day and figured out what I had done wrong, but the point remains: what if I didn't know about HF?

I'm really glad to hear that you folks at TrekLight are considering including something. I can honestly say that you make a great product and I just can't stand the thought of someone deciding to not hang just because nobody told them the basics. The rest of it is up to the hangers, but a good start would be great.
10-04-2007, 14:16
slowhike

good discussion cannibal. and seth, i appreciate your desire to educate potential hammockers.
i can guarantee you that a fair amount of 1st time hammock buyers become interested enough to make the purchase before they understand the basics... like choosing two trees that are in an acceptable range from each other & with out brush underneath them.
or securing it to the tree
or keeping it off the ground while hanging it
how to adjust
how to sag
how to lay
etc, etc...
10-04-2007, 14:19
Cannibal

Or, they could use turk's thread: The Commandments of Hammocking :D
10-04-2007, 21:11
Nightwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvleph

HH comes with directions on the stuff sack. Not very good directions though.

Seemed decent to me. And I'm a DoDo, so there! :p
10-04-2007, 22:54
ZDP-189

The HH directions are pants and the weakest part of a good system.
10-05-2007, 07:44
warbonnetguy

if i ever get my website up, it's got directions and diagrams.
being well informed is the key to using a hammock properly, and there's alot a novice might never figure out otherwise.

i also will definately have a link here as well.
10-05-2007, 07:46
NCPatrick

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZDP-189

The HH directions are pants

:confused: Not sure I understand this one. Did you mean parts?
10-05-2007, 07:49
Cannibal

warbonnetguy- In all fairness, I didn't expect you or TrekLight to send me directions considering I acquired both thru this website. I guess it would be a fairly safe assumption I knew what I was doing.

See what assumptions get ya? :D :p :D
10-05-2007, 13:22
Rat

I never really thought about it much until I started working directly with the military in '03. However, since then I have often wondered why manufacturers don't print the directions RIGHT ON THE FABRIC? Take a tent for instance (or a hammock). I have proly six tents in my house that never get used by me (except for El Grande when Roz goes with me). They do get used tho by people who go camping with me, mostly kids (teenagers) from church and such (and a few adults). By and large they are people who have little experience with camping, which is why they go with me, to learn about it. However, I hafta oversee every tent erection because the little piece of scrap paper that had directions on it has long been used for fire starter; even tents with color co-ordinated poles and sleeves are daunting for a noobie with no directions. It would be a lot easier if it were printed right on the fabric by the door, or on the rain fly or something.

The military does this on EVERYTHING, plus they have TMs (manuals) to help. But for the most part a person can set up a military tent with the instructions that are printed on the fabric. And, each piece has it printed on there, the main tent, the fly, the vestibule, the hot weather roof, the inside black-out walls, everything is printed on the piece to show you how it goes up.

Would it be so hard for the civilian market to take up this practice as well?

So I say just print clear, concise, pictoral graphics right on the tent/tarp/fly/hammock itself and be done with it. I am sure it would cost more, but it would last the life of the gear and be with the gear no matter where it went. And I would pay more for that. Although I would loose a great source of fire starter :D
10-05-2007, 15:13
Jazilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuffs

The "real" answer is yes. HOWEVER! When I was buying my real, own, very first, I paid for it myself car... It was a manual... it was years since drivers ed, and I had no idea how to drive it. I had a car-kinda-guy test drive it for me, he drove it home after the sale, and I proceeded to drive up and down the block, stalling all the way, until I finally got the hang of it. I drove that car to work the next morning (yes, stalled it several times enroute.)

So, sometimes directions are needed...

My third vehicle was a Jeep Wrangler and my wife had to drive it home for me so I know where you are coming from with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrekLightGear

To be honest Jazilla, we see it all the time when we have our booth setup at a show. It's amazing how many people have never really thought twice about a hammock because all they've seen are the traditional rope or woven hammocks. We talk to people who haven't sat in a hammock in 20 years or even never at all, but they find themselves walking out of our booth excited about a hammock for possibly the first time ever.

But seeing a Hammock in a new light isn't like buying one cause you saw it one day when you where bored at work and playing on goggle. I bought my Hennessey before this site was set up and I can tell you, if it weren't for Sgt. Rock and Just Jeff I would never have even gotten one. I got the Hennessey only after seeing that a hammock could be used for hiking and camping and then I tried to make my own. I think if we can get the name out (Hammockfroums.net) more people will become interested. As for instructions, its hard to solve this problem. I think someone buys a certain type of Hammock because they say it somewhere and like the idea.
10-05-2007, 16:02
Cannibal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazilla

I think someone buys a certain type of Hammock because they say it somewhere and like the idea.

Buying a certain type does imply that they have done a little checking. However, I bought my first one because a young lady named RockStar told me hammocking was good for her back. That was enough for me to want to try it without having seen one in use in over 15 years.

I found the cheapest thing online that I could and ordered. I spent the next week trying to figure out how to use it. Three weeks later I went to TD and got to see the set-ups up close. If it wasn't for that, and a little help from the individuals here I don't know how long it would have taken me.
10-08-2007, 12:16
Jazilla

Well when you put it that way, I see your point
10-14-2007, 10:44
ZDP-189

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCPatrick

:confused: Not sure I understand this one. Did you mean parts?

Pants (awful, next to useless).
10-14-2007, 14:17
alex30808

I have to agree...I have to give Hammock Forums and Jeff's page all the credit. I am to cheep to buy a hammock..so I first learned to make one...then I had to hang one...I have just recetly figured out PART of it...no where near all of it.

For me to fully understand how any of yall have hung your hammocks...I NEED PHOTOS....There's no telling how many photos I have looked at on this site, Jeff's site, Sgt Rock's site, Risk's site...ect...with out these photos...I would still be lugging around a 9# tent!

Thanks for all the help...but I have to say...that if I bought a hammock...I would expect some type of Mfg. rated instructions...I may not follow them...but it would be nice to have a trouble shooting guide every once in a while.
10-14-2007, 15:31
slowhike

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex30808

.Thanks for all the help...but I have to say...that if I bought a hammock...I would expect some type of Mfg. rated instructions...I may not follow them...but it would be nice to have a trouble shooting guide every once in a while.

yes... trouble shooting. that's what i often use the "instructions" for:o
but if i take time to look them over 1st, things can go a lot smoother.... that is, if the one drawing up the instruction did a good job:rolleyes:
10-14-2007, 18:57
nogods

I forgot to mention it earlier - claytor hammocks don't come with any instructions whatsoever.
10-15-2007, 13:11
Jazilla

Well I guess hanging a hammock is something anyone can do. But hanging it the right way can sometimes be a skill one has to learn
10-15-2007, 13:12
Jazilla

So what can we do to fix the learning problem?
10-15-2007, 15:35
alex30808

The only thing WE can do is to continue to post photos and suggest to the hammock co.s that they provide instructions on the proper use of the equipment they make...or atleast make it avaliable on line so that the consumer can long onto their site and down load a pritable version.

As a custom turkey call maker,I understand the reasoning behind not including instructions...I tend to think...if you are purchasing a call from me...typicaly you've gone through the mass produced items, learned how to use them, and are now wanting something more...something you cant buy off the shelf...something personalized..ect...I dont include instructions on how to run a call...but I've now got a set of written instructions I can Email a client...I have also tought folks to use my products over the phone...Customer Support is key to success!!!
10-15-2007, 15:45
Cannibal

Actually, one of the main reasons I had for starting this thread is because I know many, probably most, of the manufacturers either post, lurk, or know about this site. As consumers, we are a demanding lot and the manufacturers don't hear from us unless there is a problem. On this site, they get honest no BS comments about their products. They may not even be aware that there is such a learning curve; much as Grizz assumes everyone understands quantum mathematics. :D

I just wanted to provide a way for some of the manufacturers to hear about some of the easily corrected problems with their products. WE seem to enjoy offering our opinions, might as well put them to work.
10-15-2007, 16:03
GrizzlyAdams

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannibal

...much as Grizz assumes everyone understands quantum mathematics. :D
...

hey, c'mon. I was paying attention in 9th grade math class. Sister Mary Augustine's knuckle rapping ruler had lead weights! Can't help it if the rest of y'all didn't have the threat of really sore knuckles hanging over your head as a motivation to learn !!!

Grizz
10-15-2007, 16:07
Cannibal

Nuns. :eek:

Enough said about that. :D
10-16-2007, 08:21
Rapt

I just paid attention because I could see it being useful for stuff like this....
10-16-2007, 09:16
kohburn

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvleph

HH comes with directions on the stuff sack. Not very good directions though.

mine didn't - but it was pretty self explanatory
10-16-2007, 09:18
Nightwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZDP-189

Pants (awful, next to useless).

What about the vids on the HH site? That helped me put up the SS very easily.
10-16-2007, 09:24
angrysparrow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightwalker

What about the vids on the HH site? That helped me put up the SS very easily.

Except that BillyBob discovered in another thread that they SS has changed since the vids were made...

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