Incubator temp rating accurate?

Spent my first night using my new INcubator 20* full length and though it wasn't a failure i wouldn't say it was the success i expected. The set up was nice and snug(or maybe too snug?) It seemed to fit my HH Explorer well without using the side tie outs. I had one cold butt cheek for some bizzare reason...other than that i was warm enough to survive 39 degree weather with little wind. But would i take this out in 20* hell no.

Here is a lowdown of hte conditions i tested the underquilt in to see if other incubator owners have some tips.
39* lowest maybe a few degrees lower
No wind.
20* down bag used as top quilt
thermal underwear, windproof nylon pants.
2 pairs of socks, one wool thick for trekking.
wicking t shirt, tshirt over that and a flannel shirt over the two.
Wool hat keep my shaved head warm.
Mittens which i didn't use.
No pad underneath as most owners posted they didn't need them.
MY UQP from 2QZQ will be arriving today or tommorow.
LOts of condensation on the underquilt. I live in NH
the heels of my feet were cold and i never felt as if the underquilt was covering that part though i know it was because i checked numerous times during the night.

It is the most expensive piece of gear i own beside my sleeping bag and i was honestly expecting more toasty warm like all the incubator owners rave about. Is there something i did wrong?
In all fairness to Adam and Jenny the quality of the quilt is very good, i certainly have no complaints about the workmanship. But for what it costs i was expecting a lot more performance from the quilt. In that regard i am a little disappointed; as i said i don't think i'd try to take this down to the 20* tempature rating.

Any suggestions from fellow Incubator owners would be appreciated.

My guess, and it is just a guess, it that you didn't have it adjusted correctly and were venting your warmth all night. The easiest way it to lay in the hammock and have someone else adjust it. Given the temps you were in, I would have been really warm in my Incubator!

Check tightness of each end
Check tightness of shockcord on suspension

When you are in the hammock stick you hand between
you Incubator and hammock. If there is a gap you need to
tighten it up.

I have used my 20 deg in 15 deg weather...and it would be good for more.

While there are a lot of variables to be considered, I've been very happy with mine. I have the 0* and haven't gotten it that cold yet, I did have it to 22* with 40 knot winds and was snug as a bug.

My incubator covers me nicely from head to foot (I'm 6'), you may consider shifting it downward toward your feet, covering to the head is not really needed with a small pillow.

I also had to tighten the end channels quite a bit to get it to fit to my hammock, but you do not want to have any gaps there as it will have a wind tunnel effect.

I used some quilt clips from Dutch to secure it to my hammock so that it doesn't shift throughout the night (I have a tendency to turn). The clips hold it securely in place.

I would also suggest that you over dressed a bit for the weather (if you wore all those layers)and the result may have been some excess sweating and restriction of blood flow. I had slept only in a set of Under Armor long underwear and spent a fair amount of time pushing covers off.

I am a DIY nut and have made everything that I use except the UQ. I am very happy that I went with HG's models rather than designing my own. (I also have a phoenix as an initial purchase that will now work for my son).

I have one on order, so I'm interested to hear responses as well.

As reference, I can state that I spent a couple of nights in the early summer in very similar conditions, but with a snugpak uq (haven't seen a rating for them, but they're pretty thin synthetic, so I would definitely not expect it to be rated as low as 20*F) and a 5*C sleeping bag. I was wearing a layer of Helly Hansen synthetic thermals and a balaclava, no socks or extra layers, and I was almost too warm.

While that was a different uq, it seems to me there must have been something wrong with the way you set it up, or there's a maunfacturing error. Perhaps you could ask someone to have a look at the set-up while you're in the hammock, to see if there's something immediately visible.

I was going to start a similar thread. I spent my first night in a hammock this weekend. I have a WBBB with a 20* incubator. I had a cold butt too. I didn't expect to get it right on the first try. The problem is I couldn't find anything wrong. no gaps, It looked like it was fitting well. my low temp was 33*

I can't speak to the incubator but I have the old model "Crow's Nest" and even being a 3/4 length ... using a HG 20 degree Burrow ... I've slept really nice and toasty to the mid twenties.
The only thoughts I have that others have already stated would be it being snug to your hammock. I find myself needing to vent more than anything so I know how a little gap can shed heat rather quickly ... surprisingly quick too!

Wind can rob even the best quilts of heat so don't know if that's a factor in your particular situation.

The other point is everyone's personal "temperature rating" is different. If you're married ... you'll have first hand experience with this point! :woot: I've woken up freezing before because my darling wife has removed my part of the covers for her own use! :lol:

The one cold butt cheek you mentioned makes me think you were either pulling it too tightly against the hammock or were bleeding off heat in a spot from a gap.

Here is a suspension primer....may help: http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=52668
You must just be getting a gap. Was is upside-down perhaps? Shake and migrate the down. Coulda been those windproof nylon pants getting you clammy. Seemed to be sleeping in a lot of clothing for those temps and that much insulation.
It ain't always easy dailing in.
Shug

Adjusted correctly you should find the rating conservative. My revelation with the Incubator was a successful adjustment pulling into a trapezoid on the corners opposite my head and feet. Seemed counter intuative but it worked well.

David

I'm thinking there has to have been operator error somewhere because I've had success with mine in WAY worse conditions during my AT hike this Spring and I only had a 30 degree bag. Heck....I've had my IX UQ down to 40. I will also admit to being cold on a few occasions but after checking things out carefully it was always a result of an improper hang.

Just a thought....did you shake it out prior to installing it? They say it helps redistribute the down which may have shifted when stuffing it in the stuff sack. You hold it by the sides and shake like like a bed sheet.

Someone mentioned your clothes. I've made the mistake of wearing too many clothes which resulted in becoming chilled to due sweating.

My gut feeling is that it just wasn't snugged properly....either too loose (probably) or too tight. In any event you should EASILY be able to stay warm in the 39 -40 degree range.

You can easily reach outside the hammock while laying in it and check for snugness at the head end and reach under you to check for excessive airspace. I even reverse myself to check both ends.

Keep playing with paying attention to detail.

Miguel

I did shake mine from the side to fluff the down. I will be going to a group hang in a couple of weeks, i'm hoping to get educated by some of the people with more experience than me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye Hanger

I did shake mine from the side to fluff the down. I will be going to a group hang in a couple of weeks, i'm hoping to get educated by some of the people with more experience than me.

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You will learn more than you ever thought possible at a group hang! Have fun!

Maybe you started sweating and once you do that you've got to dry yourself off and start over and vent the underquilt.

Here's some pics of inside and outside...
I tried using both suspensions primary and secondary...could that have been an issue? Do you only need to use one or the other?

It's hard to tell from photos alone, but that looks just like mine did on its first use. I cliped the main suspension on my hammock with the s-biner then just guessed on the secondary - I would say I pulled it so about 6" of shockcord was hanging thru the lineloc on each end. I stayed warm down to 26°.

I always like to reach out under the UQ after I get in to see it if feels right. I also reach in between the hammock and UQ to make sure there's not a big gap under my back and rear.

I have a 40° Incubator with the old susprension and I've stayed comfortable down to around 34°, so I'm confident the ratings are accurate. Of course, it depends on clothing, wind, and many other factors.

Too tight can also be an issue if you compress the down in one spot you will get cold there

come to think of it, to tight may have been my problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shug

Here is a suspension primer....may help: http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=52668
You must just be getting a gap. Was is upside-down perhaps? Shake and migrate the down. Coulda been those windproof nylon pants getting you clammy. Seemed to be sleeping in a lot of clothing for those temps and that much insulation.
It ain't always easy dailing in.
Shug

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You can say that again, Brother!

So here we go again, X 2 (folks) in this thread! In fact, if Shug had not already said it, I would call that BB58's Law #1: It ain't always easy dialing in

Sense he has said it, I will just come up with another BB58 Law #1:
UQs can be tricky, and are tricky to more than a few.

Fit must essentially be perfect. And sometimes that ain't easy. especially if you are setting up by your self.

There needs to be a "seal" on the sides and head and ends, so that cold air has a hard time creeping past the edges and getting underneath you.

It can also be tough to get a good seal because of "creases" I suppose that is the correct term. Look at this hammock, and you can clearly see opportunities for cold air to travel in these creases using them like little highways to get right under your back and butt. Luckily for me, I always use a Pea Pod with this particular hammock, which completely surrounds all those creases making them irrelevant.
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...3051_thumb.jpg

The quilt needs to be snug against you with no gaps, yet not tight enough to compress any down/loft. Hopefully dif cuts make being too tight more or less unlikely. I have often got away with good size gaps with my Pea Pod. But that is because it drapes over the sides/edges of the hammock to drape down onto me or close to it, usually with any gap ( on top ) filled with clothing or light TQs. And the ends are cinched down tight. So cold air rarely gets under me to fill any gap down below. But you won't get away with even a 1/4" gap on a normal UQ, not unless you are trying to vent because you are too hot.

Also, too tight or strange suspension angles can mess things up. But more likely ( in my experience anyway) not tight enough is the more likely problem. And at least with those perimeter suspensions, I think they can bunch up under you if you are not careful. IOW, you end up with the head edge of the UQ not as far away from the foot edge as it should be, even though the suspension is plenty tight. Which causes a cursed gap. You can help that by pulling on the top quilt edge, with your butt more or less keeping it anchored.

Any one think the head/foot end suspensions have less trouble with some of these problems than a Perimeter type? I don't think it can bunch up with a JRB type suspension, or at least not as prone. And I'm thinking that threads like this with an MW UQ are rare as hens teeth? Maybe that is because of the suspension?

You also don't see this problem when bridge hammocks are used, at least I don't remember seeing threads like this for that. But I don't think that is due to the suspension, but due to the excellent, crease and gap free fit of a JRB MW UQ to a BMBH. And probably other bridges and UQs also. Point is, you have to find a way to overcome any creases and avoid any gaps.

Having said all of that, you can work it out, because many others have! You just need to find what your problem is. First thing I would try is to tighten things up some. Ans get some one to help check fit while you are in the hammock.

EDIT: Oh I forgot: the very 1st thing that needs to be determined: Were you not warm enough on your back, while being definitely warm enough on top?

Or were is it the reverse?

Or were you just kind of cold all over? Depending on the answers, it could be a draft problem with your your back used as TQ, instead of or in addition to your UQ.

Oh, and edit #2: a lot of condensation on the UQ? We need to figure out what is going on with that. If your shell is wet and it is actually from condensation, then it is likely that the outer layers of your down is damp from that same condensation. That could make you cold by itself. But this is a breathable quilt, so we need to figure out why is this happening?

Hey Billy,

This is my first year in a hammock and never hung in this kind of cold weather. It was odd that my sleeping bag which was down was covered in condensation too just as the underquilt was...it certainly didn't rain in NH last night...so not sure where all the condensation came from. It's hard to judge what is too tight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Walker1207

Hey Billy,

This is my first year in a hammock and never hung in this kind of cold weather. It was odd that my sleeping bag which was down was covered in condensation too just as the underquilt was...it certainly didn't rain in NH last night...so not sure where all the condensation came from. It's hard to judge what is too tight.

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The condensation is kind of a head scratcher all right!

I don't have an HG and folks that do will have to give you specific advice re: suspension tightness. With my full length JRB MW, I have just adjusted it so it felt snug against my back on either a WBBB or a JRB bridge hammock, and have been plenty warm as low as 10F. It has a suspension that simply attaches from the ends to the hammock. I did have to fiddle quite a bit to get the fit correct on the foot end with the WBBB, but once I got it all was fine.

But on my torso length WB Yeti, which has an encircling or perimeter suspension ( don't know if that is related ), I have to make sure that it lifts my empty hammock in the middle 2 or 3 feet to get full performance out of it. And I have to make sure the head end edge of
the quilt is right about my neck line. I can get away with a bit lower, but even an inch or two higher and it starts venting, allowing cold air to flow right down the middle. But I don't know how things work with an incubator. I'd say at the very least, make sure it is not too loose, that it is at least nice and snug against your back and butt. It sounds like you also need to work on the leg end adjustment, but I'm not sure how to do that with your full length UQ.

Did you notice any difference in top warmth vs bottom warmth?

I think the condensation was a main player in your weak results. The question is: why so much condensation?

1st, did you have a tarp and was it covered inside in condensation?

Were you in your back yard, over grass in a more or less wide open, unsheltered area, under clear skies? Under conditions like that, I often get tons of condensation, even if I am not in the hammock. I have come out to cold weather test to find my MW4 covered in a thick layer of frost, as well as any uncovered hammock and the inside of my tarp. It appears that ground moisture rises up and condenses, but I really don't know. I have never had this issue out in the woods, on an actual backpack trip. Only in my backyard.

However, I guess the good news is that this condensation seems to be pretty much outside on the shell. The other kind comes from your warm body moisture condensing not only on the shell, but in the outer layers of the insulation, even with a breathable shell. Heck, it can condense on your mossie net, which is pretty darn breathable. I know that is a problem when it is very cold, but I'm not so sure about at 39F. Anyone care to opine about that?

Then again, the one time I had bad condensation in my HH Super Shelter, it was only in the high 40s, so maybe it can be a bad problem. But that was different. It was not a matter of it condensing in my bag or quilt or the breathable shell, but of condensing on the inside of my cold outer layer water proof sil-nylon shell ( the under cover ). So, kind of different.

Down insulates by trapping warm air between all the little clusters. If you had on too many clothes then it's possible that your body heat never warmed the air in the quilt sufficiently to keep you any warmer than your clothes. I suggest trying again, but with less clothing. Keep your long johns in the hammock with you, then if needed, put them on towards morning as it gets colder. The condensation may be a result of there not being enough body heat being radiating through the quilt, so the surface of the quilts reached ambient air temperature and got wet with all the other surfaces outside that night.

Hi Walker,

Personally i think a few things factor in here.
You were wearing way too many clothes for those temps. I was getting clammy just reading how many layers you had on!! especially the windproof pants.
I was in those temps on Saturday night at 4000 feet in NH and only wore running shorts and a T-shirt. I was using a 20* UQ and a 30* TQ. Nice and warm.
I did make the mistake of taking off the old suspension trying to use only the new one but as i toss and turn it was slipping from under one side or another causing some areas to become cooler. Not cold though, just cooler. Once i fixed that i was fine and didnt want to get out in the morning.

As already suggested it would be good to get in and have someone go around and see how snug it is and adjust.

I dont think it has to be perfect in those temps especially a 20* UQ but it shouldnt have gaps at the foot and head end.
Did you make sure the ends were synched up on the head and foot end?

Was the condensation on the outside or inside of the UQ? if outside it also may have been fog.

I know it can be frustrating to not have that great cozy warm nights sleep everyone is raving about, but don't give up, you'll get it. Every time i go out i am testing new gear and i haven't gone out and had a great nights sleep in a while, purely because i am too keen on just getting out there and don't test the setup at home first.

Keep us posted on your remedy which i am sure you'll find.

To add to the clothing comments, I would suggest a different strategy for you which would be to experiment on these fall outings to first determine the limits of your gear.

For instance start off sleeping with minimal clothing and add as needed. You will also more quickly notice if your UQ is adjusted properly.

I wanted to experiment a little on my last outing, it was in the low 30's, dry and no wind. I went to sleep wearing sock liners, shorts and a short sleeve T. My insulation was a 20* Phoenix, 20* Burrow with a sit pad in the foot box and a down hood. I was toasty warm the entire night.

My backups were extra socks, base layers, reflectix pad plus all my outer layers but I didn't need any of them. Gaining confidence in and understanding the limits of your gear is a big help.

David

I have a 20* incubator. It took some time to learn to hang it correctly. I believe the temp rating is accurate.

A friend and I just did the Eagle Rock Loop over the weekend, and it got pretty cold (at least for Texans) a couple of nights. Thursday night it got down around 45. I was TOASTY with my 20* incubator and 40* go-lite down top quilt. My buddy froze... he only brought a fleece sleeping bag and a polyester liner (ummm...). Being the friend that I am, I swapped my top quilt for his fleece bag on Friday night. It got down to 36. I stayed warm enough to sleep thanks to the incubator. He still got cold. I would have frozen if not for the downy goodness of the incubator. Thanks Adam and Jenny.

I have to agree with the others pertaining to a setup issue. I've got a 40 deg Incubator with an extra ounce of down and I've slept comfortably at 23.

I will be testing it one more time tonight in the backyard which i call camp nowhere...then i'll be going for the weekend up to the whites with my older brother who, though in the summer does hammock hanging absolutely refuses to do so in the fall and winter and laughed at me for buying an underquilt. He goes i wouldn't trust that for a million bucks...he's been backpacking thirty years..he knows his stuff. But of course if one is unfamiliar with a thing one tends to be shaky....which is where i am at now with all the new gear as i was always a ground dweller too.
Alot of what everyone says makes sense but the conventional wisdom of what you know does to. LIke airflow underneath...condensation on down...
I suppose the only way to know a thing is to do a thing. So off we go for more testing.

New things take time to learn. The backyard is a great place to dial in your setup. It builds familiarity and confidence in the new gear. Leave yourself the option to bail, or go to ground, to do whatever you are familiar enough with to have a great weekend, if you can't quite get the UQ dialed in time.

While testing in your back yard is the safe way to go, keep in mind what I said in the above post about the incredible amounts of condensation I get in my backyard. Much more than I have ever gotten out on the trail. Don't know if that is the situation you are dealing with. But, if that condensation is staying on the outside of your shell, it might not cause you all that much problem, until you have to pack up with it. I'd carry some sort of pack towel for drying your shell off before packing.

My brother said it was because i had the bugnet zipped up that it built up so much condensation...but that would not explain why i had so much on my underquilt.

is it sweat? Where you too warm- and the sweat condensed on the shell?

TH

I have the 20 degree one and once I watched Shug's video and saw what I was doing wrong the only problem I have now is that the UQ sometimes shifts under me, I reach under the hammock and pull it back into position and instant warmth

No I don't think i was too warm...at one point i did remove my outer shell pants and flannel and was down to thermals and t shirts. I was never cold cold but not as warm as i thought i should be. Having been a tent camper and remembering past excursions in this weather i remember having worn shorts and t shirt because i had been too warm. Maybe i was overdressed and therefore reduced the down bag and underquilts ability to keep me warm. Lessons learned the hard way.

been there.. i have learned to start with less and add a jacket or a pair of socks if cold. i have an Incubator, and to me it looks like you have it too cinched.. back off and see if that helps. i too stick my hand b/t the hammock and UQ to check for air pockets. you should feel warmth coming up pretty quickly once you lay down. if you are still cold look at getting a Winter Sock from PapaSmurf- i am waiting for mine to arrive for Winter camping later this year in the Whites.

From the pics it looks like you have the ends (at least the "neck collar" area) drawn up really tight. In my experience this creates a bad gap at the ends that there is no good cure for. For me, I try and get those "seams", if you will, between the head/foot ends of the UQ and the hammock body to be completely flush and only slightly tensioned: keeps gaps to a minimum.

I have an incubator too, good luck!