Winter Tarp primer/questions/opinions?

So Cannibal posted in another thread:

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Originally Posted by Cannibal

I've got a lot of time under a winter tarp, so ask away. I'll answer as best I can.

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For those of you who have spent a lot of time cold weather hanging and have tried multiple size/style tarps, what do you consider the ultimate size for a winter tarp? And if you have a favorite Winter tarp, what is it, and why? Post pics if possible.

I now have several options besides my 11x14, and it gets tricky deciding which to take with as my CCS 11x14 is my go-to tarp summer or winter, and the others just haven't had the time that the CCS has, and it is hard to try something new when coverage/reliability/versatility counts so much this time of year. I can close off the ends and pitch the ridge either 11 or 14 or off-center/custom length, as there are multiple tie-outs along the edges, it's lightweight, and it has never let me down.

I had Brian make me a custom winter tarp out of my own material which should be here any day, so I expect to be torn as to my new favorite.

Question #1 -
What is the relationship (if any) of a 4 wall winter tarp (think WB superfly) and a winter hammock sock? Do they perform the same task (stop the wind)? If the same, will a 4 wall winter tarp give an estimated 10*F temp bump (like I hear a sock does)? Should someone use them at the same time?
Benefits of each?
Cons of each?

(I'm FULL of questions!)

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Originally Posted by animalcontrol

Question #1 -
What is the relationship (if any) of a 4 wall winter tarp (think WB superfly) and a winter hammock sock? Do they work together or do they perform the same task (stop the wind)? If the same, will a 4 wall winter tarp give a estimated 10*F temp bump? Should someone use them at the same time? Benefits of each? Cons of each?

(I'm FULL of questions!)

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I can answer the sock/4 wall winter tent question as to my experience.

Sock and tarp will work together, and in fact IMHO are an ideal combination for sub-freezing temps. While both stop the wind, the sock is SO much closer to your body and the heat, it delays the release of your body heat to the outer elements/heat robbing wind much better than the open space of a 4 wall tent. The sock is also more easily adjustable for comfort level than just a 4 wall tent - if you get too warm, you don't have to get out of your hammock to vent. A 4 sided tarp does similar work, but not as efficiently, as the space you are heating is much larger. You will see a comfort gain by a 4 sided tarp, but more in line with a wind break. As to actual temperature gain with a 4 wall winter tent, if the tent is fully closed and protected, there should be a temperature gain, which would be most notable after time spent inside the tarp, but not as much as with the sock. Together (tarp and sock,) your little cocoon can gain 10* + easily. The largest temp gain with sock/tarp combo I have had was 18*; but man, did I have the condensation inside the sock! And that was with my fully waterproof VB sock.

I can use my HECU (BB sock) on its own, but I lose the benefit of the tarp coverage when it snows/rains. I can use the tarp on its own, but I lose the 10* almost immediate temp boost and blocking those stray bursts of wind that seem to find any crack in your tent. Together, it is a nearly perfect sub-zero system - keep the area around/under your tarp/sock dry with the tarp, and keep your booty/body a little warmer with the sock.:cool:

yeah, i would generally agree, the sock is best for temp gain, and some wind protection, especially against drafts coming in through the vent of the tarp. you need some vent to combat condensation on the sil, although if it's really windy i think you could close things up pretty tight and the opening for the suspension and the bottom edges may be enough venting (again, if it's windy) if not you may need to open the doors some to get enough venting. so the winter tarp is more to block the main force of the wind and provide sheltered space outside the hammock, while the sock blocks the rest of the wind and provides heat gain. so depending on conditions, you might be better with one or the other or both.

do you know the deminsions of a good size winter tarp or where i can find them? like i said i want to try to make my own.

Grizz had a good idea with this thread:
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ht=winter+tarp

Take a regular tarp, and add doors using grip clips.

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Originally Posted by irrationalsolutions

do you know the deminsions of a good size winter tarp or where i can find them? like i said i want to try to make my own.

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From the warbonnet Superfly:
"The Superfly is my “severe weather tarp”. it is convertible between a 4 walled hammock shelter and a flat tarp . The main body is an elongated cat cut hex measuring 11’ on the ridge, and 10’6” at its widest.

There are 2 overlapping doors per end, one big and one small. The overlap allows for some flexibility in pitch while still allowing for full closure. Both doors can also be swung outward for various windbreak options or rolled up."
pics
jacksRBetter HammockHut:
"40 square feet of protected floor space.
10 foot 3 inch ridge line.
5 feet tall at the ridge line."
pics

thats a good idea but what measurements work for you? i really dont want to have to make more than one of these to get it right. all this is really helpful i would be a lot worse off if i didnt find this place.

In my opinion, I like a large winter tarp. 10' would probably be the least amount of length I'd choose.

I use tarps to block wind and rain. I don't notice any real temp gain except in the worst of conditions; any port in a storm. Now, if you 'wall it in' by pitching it close to the ground, sealing the doors as much as possible, and piling leaves, snow, branches up along the bottom gap you will notice a bit of an increase in heat retention. However, as others have said, condensation might become an issue.

For me, a winter tarp is my studio apartment in the woods. I want room to futz with stuff if needed, to cook and eat my dinner/lunch/breakfast/snacks. I want to change clothes (assuming I have extra clothes) out of the wind and rain or snow and sleet. I want room to make gear repairs if necessary. Basically, I want to be able to move around under my tarp without crouching or being concerned about something being too close to the edge of the tarp and getting wet. It is my bubble.

WBG can probably tell you the dimensions of the original SuperFly I carried on the AT. It was luxury by comparison to other tarps out there at the time. I require a tightly pitched tarp, so cat cut edges are a given. I also want flexibility in the set-up; if it doesn't need to be bombproof one night, why would I want to have to set my tarp up in that manner?

Size and weight are accepted penalties during the cold trips. Even the hard core SUL folks came looking for the hiker "with that tarp over there" when it was ugly outside. If those folks can see the value in it, it ought to be a no-brainer for the rest of us. Size does indeed matter for me and my winter tarp selection, but don't assume that's only the length of the ridge. The girth is a very important item and the main reason I was a strong advocate of the pull-outs on the current SuperFly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irrationalsolutions

thats a good idea but what measurements work for you? i really dont want to have to make more than one of these to get it right. all this is really helpful i would be a lot worse off if i didnt find this place.

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I would use the dimensions animalcontrol posted for the SuperFly. I think the Speer Winter Tarp is 10x11. I don't know much about the JRB model and haven't seen it in action yet, but the first two I've seen/used a great deal and they are both (JRB probably is too) excellent in their designs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irrationalsolutions

thats a good idea but what measurements work for you? i really dont want to have to make more than one of these to get it right. all this is really helpful i would be a lot worse off if i didnt find this place.

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I'm not the most knowledgable person on this topic, but if I was going to sew my own:
11' ridge line
10' side wall (5' each side)
silnylon or spinnex, cat cut, full rectangle, 4 tie outs/side (use 1 on each end/side for end cap), 1 mid wall tie outs/side

disclaimer: I have never made one of these, I don't even own one. If I wanted to make one, these are the basics where I would start.

Here are a couple of pics of the SuperFly (old model) in action:

Set-up for cold and dreary.
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...mode_thumb.jpg

Set-up for good weather and a view.
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...open_thumb.jpg

Our own HF member 'leftfield' thinking how nice it would be to have a Winter Tarp instead of that wittle itty bitty Hennessy fly. :D
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery...amin_thumb.jpg

Hey Cannibal,
Do you know what the length is between the side tie-out corners, not counting the doors?

Not offhand and especially not on the current model. I'll be happy to measure when I get home if WBG doesn't answer the question first.

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Originally Posted by stoikurt

Hey Cannibal,
Do you know what the length is between the side tie-out corners, not counting the doors?

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length of the side of the hex that runs along the ground is about 7'6" i believe

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Originally Posted by FishinFinn

So Cannibal posted in another thread:



For those of you who have spent a lot of time cold weather hanging and have tried multiple size/style tarps, what do you consider the ultimate size for a winter tarp? And if you have a favorite Winter tarp, what is it, and why? Post pics if possible.

I now have several options besides my 11x14, and it gets tricky deciding which to take with as my CCS 11x14 is my go-to tarp summer or winter, and the others just haven't had the time that the CCS has, and it is hard to try something new when coverage/reliability/versatility counts so much this time of year. I can close off the ends and pitch the ridge either 11 or 14 or off-center/custom length, as there are multiple tie-outs along the edges, it's lightweight, and it has never let me down.

I had Brian make me a custom winter tarp out of my own material which should be here any day, so I expect to be torn as to my new favorite.

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my claytor 3 x 4 tarp rocksthat 3 x 4 meters aprox 10 x 13 ft:shades:neo

Here is the beginning write-up of the JRB tarp, including measurements.
http://www.tothewoods.net/GearTestJRBCatTarp.html

http://www.tothewoods.net/ImagesGear/JRBCatTarp.jpg
JRB 10' x 11' Cat Tarp

There are a few 10' x 12' tarps out there but not many, and very few are larger than that. The JRB and Speer are both 10' x 11'. For a long time 8' x 10' was the most popular "large size" tarp, and those are widely available (Speer, Equinox, Integral Designs, etc.).

http://www.tothewoods.net/ImagesStay...rpSpeerLow.jpg
Ed Speer's 8' x 10' tarps

Also check out the larger MacCat sizes...MacCat has a VERY good name for high quality products.

http://www.tothewoods.net/ImagesStay...atonground.jpg
MacCat Deluxe

And once you choose the tarp, you can add mods to it as well. Check out T-Back's doors he added onto a MacCat.

http://www.tothewoods.net/ImagesStay...acCatBeaks.JPG

So for complete enclosure during winter, you can make it work with a 10' x 11' tarp, or you can mod several tarp styles with doors and/or walls, or you can get a fully-enclosed Hammock Hut from JRB.

Hope this helps.

how would you cat cut the winter tarp? would you just cut it between all the tie out points?

Just follow the directions for the BlackCat and add some doors, doors (there are probably more). I say that like it's easy. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Cannibal

Just follow the directions for the BlackCat and add some doors, doors (there are probably more). I say that like it's easy. :rolleyes:

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The easiest thing is to just buy one, Warbonnet or Speer will fix you right up.

Yes - the winter tarps have small cat curves between the tie-outs.

ok i got some material. its not enough but i have to wait on more to get in. the questions i have are..

1 tie off straps or groments
2 how many tie points on each side and what spacing
3 what type of stitching
4 i assume reinforcing the tie points is a good idea so what material do i use

thats all i can think of for now. and thanks again ya'll have been a huge help sa far.

i almost forgot i am going with the 11x10 tarp and its for a hh expedition if it matters.

I'll be building a 12X8 for my HH expedition shortly, I'm terribly interested in the answers to all of those questions.

(12X8 because 4' wide is the only sil that the local walmart had for $1.50/yd)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irrationalsolutions

1 tie off straps or groments

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I prefer straps; don't know why, just do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irrationalsolutions

2 how many tie points on each side and what spacing

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Are you going to cat cut it? I don't want to carry lots of stakes so the less the better. 2 on each side is my suggestion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irrationalsolutions

3 what type of stitching

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Rolled hem on the perimeter and a flat felled on the ridge seam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irrationalsolutions

4 i assume reinforcing the tie points is a good idea so what material do i use

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Scrap pieces of whatever. Black is usually a nice contrast and goes with the GG or bias ribbon you will probably use.

My wive's Cathedral cat tarp is 10X12, and it works great in the winter. It has four tie-outs per side, and you can use the middle two for the sides and then close the ends with the other two. It is the only tarp that I carry now,and the extra cover in the summer really helps in downpours. In the winter I pile leaves up around the sides to block the wind, and as long as you pick a good spot and direction from the wind it keeps all the wind off of you. By the way, there are cat curves between all tie-outs.

Dwight

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Originally Posted by Preacha Man

My wive's Cathedral cat tarp is 10X12, and it works great in the winter. It has four tie-outs per side, and you can use the middle two for the sides and then close the ends with the other two. It is the only tarp that I carry now,and the extra cover in the summer really helps in downpours. In the winter I pile leaves up around the sides to block the wind, and as long as you pick a good spot and direction from the wind it keeps all the wind off of you. By the way, there are cat curves between all tie-outs.

Dwight

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That's got to be one bomb-proof tarp with 4 ties and cats on each side. :cool:

My tarp is 13.5' X 10', in winter: I hang the tarp at about eye level (I'm 5' 7") & stake it as if it was a MacCat*, leaving teh ends at ground level free, I then fold them in & stake the ends making a double door at each end of my tarp. My one & only time doing this was monday night, temp got down to at least 23 degrees. I also use a hammock sock, so thought I wouldn't really notice any differece as I have spent the night in similar temps using just my MacCat type tarp & the sock, I was wrong: The Left flap facing North came loose around 0200, I noticed just a few minutes after (about 15) I heard it start to flap that it was indeed a few degrees cooler inside my sock. I rolled over & went back to sleep, around 0300 I got up & fixed it. Again, I noticed a near immediate change in temp, this time it was warmer.
The wind that night came from every direction**, so I can't say the flap blocking the wind did or didn't make a difference. I do know that it was noticably warmer inside the tarp with the flaps closed as opposed to them being open.

Note: this method would also work all season when/if privacy was an issue.

*From the side it in fact looks like a MacCat when set up this way.
**Literally the wind directon on the local weather channel was changing every 30 seconds or less, hitting all 12 points of the compass in under 2 minutes.

i thought about going with a more narrow tarp also but i decided to use a third strip running long ways down the middle to get the with i wanted.

sorry i left the d out it should be width

If you put a strip down the middle you'll have to seamseal two ridgelines. If you put a more narrow strip down each end you won't have to worry about sealing it.

I'll give that a whirl Jeff - I've got 3 pieces of 4X12 just waiting for a monster tarp for group camping. I'll cut one down the center and add the extra 2' to each side. 12X12 ought to give some serious room camp chores in icky weather.

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Originally Posted by sclittlefield

I'll give that a whirl Jeff - I've got 3 pieces of 4X12 just waiting for a monster tarp for group camping. I'll cut one down the center and add the extra 2' to each side. 12X12 ought to give some serious room camp chores in icky weather.

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Piker! :tongueup: I have a 15 x 12 and a 16 x 16 for group camping. I blow my nose with a 12 x 12. :laugh:

Actually, that's a good size for group camping. The larger the tarp, the harder it is to find a good space to hang it. You can also hang a square tarp in a lot of different configs.

ok you lost me i understand about having to seal two seams but whats that about not having to seal it?

If the seam is "below" the body of the hammock or what you are trying to protect, you don't really need to seal it, 'cause it doesn't matter if it leaks. :D Also, if you sew the flat-felled seam right, the water shouldn't "stop" at the seam and should roll right over/past the seam, with minimal leakage.

i've been working on how i want this thing to be set up and i thinki want the tie outs that are in the middle of the tarp on each side. what is your opinion on these and how do you do them?

Somebody posted pics of how they did the tie-outs; can't remember the thread. Basically, they sewed a circle of fabric on the inside of the tarp where they wanted the tie-out(s), and then sewed the tab to the tarp, through the circle of added fabric and the tarp. This was to add strength to the tie-out and to keep the tarp from ripping.

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Originally Posted by FishinFinn

Somebody posted pics of how they did the tie-outs; can't remember the thread. Basically, they sewed a circle of fabric on the inside of the tarp where they wanted the tie-out(s), and then sewed the tab to the tarp, through the circle of added fabric and the tarp. This was to add strength to the tie-out and to keep the tarp from ripping.

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Hey ... good tarp talk! Here is a link to a thread on here on my tie-outs added to my BlackCat Tarp: http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=4516
Let us see pix!
Shug

it looks good is there a thread that tells how to do it? and what are the advantages of having two or is one good enough?

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Originally Posted by irrationalsolutions

it looks good is there a thread that tells how to do it? and what are the advantages of having two or is one good enough?

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Cut your silnylon into circles .... I doubled mine. Sew on the inside of the tarp!!! Add Tie outs. Seam seal.
Two is better as it pulls away from head area and feet. You will like the extra headroom either way.
Get to it!!!
Enjoy.
Shug

do you sew the tie out between the reinforcment and the tarp and put a hole and stick it through or to the outside of the tarp?

I now rig my rectangular tarp for winter use like bearpaw do
Picture #2 at http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=6488

I set the ridgeline a bit higher & the "doors" will actually close completely. The bottoms of the door flaps are secured with elastic cord, so to open all I need do is unfasten the bottom of one flap from the tent peg & step out. I can if need be still fasten the door from the outside, but I'm usually not outside that long so lI often just eave it go.

Last time I was out, I wasn't exactly sure it helped till the NW* door flap came loose, I noticed an almost immediate drop in the (percieved) temp. As the outside temp was only down to 23, I didn't bother fixing the flap till hours later, (didn't seem worth the "effort") but I did notice.

*I was hanging oriented N / S, the wind was mostly from the W & NW with minimal natural wind break.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irrationalsolutions

do you sew the tie out between the reinforcment and the tarp and put a hole and stick it through or to the outside of the tarp?

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Sewed my tie-outs to the outside of the tarp after sewing the circles to the inside of the tarp. Then seam seal. Has held very well for me so far.....
Shug

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Originally Posted by Shug

Sewed my tie-outs to the outside of the tarp after sewing the circles to the inside of the tarp. Then seam seal. Has help very well for me so far.....
Shug

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that's how i do the ones on the superfly as well.