Anyone familiar with the military 4-piece sleeping bag system?

Not a hammock question per se, but this seems like a great place to get info from a lot of different folks, so I figured I'd ask.

Is anyone familiar with the military 4-piece sleeping bag system (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/261...g-bag-system)?

From what I've read, just the green "patrol bag" is good for temps down to 30* and the inner black "intermediate cold weather bag" is good down to -10*. I assume that -10 is actually both the black and green together, but I'm not sure. If so, I'm wondering what kind of temperature rating JUST the black part has without the green outer bag. Anyone know? I'm looking at buying a bunch of these inner black bags (no green part) for group campouts, but I want to make sure they'll be reasonably warm for spring/fall camping (i.e. 40-50*).

Thanks for any info you can offer!

I have a Military Integrated Sleep System and it is rated to -30 degrees(F) for 4 hours. The last 3 words in that sentence are usually left off of a lot of the product descriptions out there. The lighter of the 2 bags is rated to 30 degrees(F). The heavier is rated to -10 degrees(F).

But, there are a few caveats. One, I believe all of these ratings are for nested arrangements. For example, the lighter bag has to be combined with the Gore-Tex bivy outer bag. Ditto, for the heavier bag.

To get the -30 rating, the heavier bag has to be nested in the lighter bag, which is nested in the bivy bag. As far as I can tell from my research, all of these ratings are for 4 hours of sleep, not 8.

Plus, this rating is for someone dressed in expedition weight polypropylene shirt, pants and issue cushion sole woolen socks.

That also reflects my own experience. I have only taken the heavier weight bag down to around 40 degrees/8,000ft (i.e. very dry air) for 8 hours wearing a t-shirt and shorts. I was warm but just warm enough. Any colder and I think I would have been uncomfortable. I sleep hot too. It usually has to be below 70 degrees(F) before I need a blanket.

One more thing: You definitely need to use under-insulation - either a pad or an underquilt. I tried the full nested arrangement (bivy/green/black) in 20 degrees on snow with no pad as an experiment and it was too cold to be comfortable. You can make really cheap, good pad using a double layer of Reflectix for under a dollar.

YMMV

The -30 like they claim will keep you alive. It would be a horrible night with no sleep but you would live.

I've got one as well, and yes, the temp ratings are generally for it nested. However, each bag is rated as a stand alone and the system together with the Bivy and (read carefully) most or all of the ECWCS bein worn. This is a 7 layer system that starts with a thermal, wicking base layer and works its way up to a full blown winter parka and pants with booties. Combined with all 7 layers and nesting the 3 components (bivy, green and black bags) the system will give you up to 4 hours of sleep at -50*.

The key is you have ot be wearing all those layers AND nesting the bags to get that low. Now, that also said, real world experience, I've had the green bag down to about 30 back in March. I was quite wwarm and even had to vent it open to keep from sweating. However, I was weraing a base layer of thermals and was also fully dressed in long sleeve shirt and nylon pants with thick socks on. Put a liner in it and you can safely take it down to about 25 if you are also layered. Haven't tested the black bags lower imit and, being rom Texas, don't plan to at any time in the future. Mainly because the dang thign weighs a bit over 4 pounds which is more bag than I ever care to carry just to get down to minus temps.

I can't speak as to the 4-bag system personally, but I agree that it makes sense for it to be rated as a "survival" temperature rather than a "comfort" one.

On the other hand, if you're looking for a decent inexpensive top quilt or underquilt for down between 40* and 50*, take a look at poncho liners.

I've found that a poncho liner is an acceptable top quilt down to 50* for most folks without any supplementary insulation and 40* is quite reachable with normal supplemental clothing (long underwear, sleep socks, and an hat or balaclava). Me, I'm comfy pushing it to freezing in a T-shirt and shorts as long as I have adequate bottom insulation, but I'm an human furnace.

As an underquilt, well, I'll just point you at the two different versions of a PLUQ: no-sew and sewn up.

Poncho liners can be had for ~$10 to ~$30 a piece, depending on where you buy. It's hard to beat the weight versus cost ratio on 'em, though they (like all synthetics) are a bit bulky.

Hope it helps!

I had just the black bag in Afg. I slept in thermals and socks and was still cold with a crappy night of sleep when the temp was in the 20s.

Thanks, all.

Just to clarify: I'm not concerned about weight or really low temps. And they're not for hammocking, just your traditional tent camping. I found a great deal on them and figure they'll work for what I need, just wondered if I could get any more details about them first.

Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by jennalyn216

Thanks, all.

Just to clarify: I'm not concerned about weight or really low temps. And they're not for hammocking, just your traditional tent camping. I found a great deal on them and figure they'll work for what I need, just wondered if I could get any more details about them first.

Thanks again!

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What is this traditional tent camping you speak of????

I have one of these sleeping bag systems left over from my recently-ended time in the military, and if you read the labeling, it shows the temperature ratings for each piece separately and together, with no mention of how the bivy works into it. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I know from experience that I used just the green piece as a TQ (not zipped up, just laid over me) and a military issue sleeping mat in temperatures in the 40's-50's and I was very comfortable. I was also wearing polypro long johns, socks, and a knit cap, too. I hope this helps.

The system is great if your expectations are correct. I've used the lighter green bag alone down to ~55 with mesh shorts and no shirt with no wind and it was about perfect. I've used the black heavier bag down to 35 with sweatpants and a sweatshirt and was a bit cold.

I sleep warm and was in a tent with ground pad in both cases.

I'm new to hammock camping, but am waiting on a HG Incubator 20 degree UQ and plan on using the military sleep system bags as top quilts for a while. I don't really plan on camping if it's under 30 degrees.

I almost bought that same setup, but then I found Wiggy's. He's got the same concept going, but does a much better job. I couldn't reccomend them enough, just great bags. Moisture is afraid of these bags! Made in the USA too.

www.Wiggys.com

I'm moving from the green bag to a quilt set up. I did the bag/mat/bivy and it worked ok in 30* temps. Pain in the *** to get into. The nice thing about the green bag is the zips, you can tear into them like the hulk and they take the abuse. The zips run either way so you can vent. The green bag is light enough for a synthetic and fit in the bottom of my 75l Baltero with room to spare.

Like the others have said, layering is the key for that bag. I am thinking about chopping it up and making it into a warmer weather quilt.

I love the 4 piece sleep system. It's just so versatile. I actually bought a bunch of them at auction and sell them on Craigslist. They're phasing them out so they're almost always in perfect shape. I sell mine for 100 bucks each.

what is the military replacing them with? (you said they are being phased out)

I can personally say that the numbers they put on theses bags are survival only. I had the complete system together while I was on the Mainland and I was quite chilly all night. Of course, I was wet and cold already, and alone in a two man tent, which is meant for two people to warm the entire tent. Learning occurred.

As for the new system they are phasing in, as my understanding goes, it's a three season bag. Small bag, bivy sac, happy suit. The suit it awesome, I used in when we were deployed. Like a wearable sleeping bag.

New to the hammock world but I use the MSS a lot I think it's great for 0 to -10 sleep many nights in one. Thinking about trying it in my hammock??? Feed back welcomed!

Perhaps phasing it out was an incorrect description. The woodland camo version is being replaced by a 5 piece ACU system. I'm buying up the 4 piece woodland camo modular sleep systems at auction. The newish system is the Army acu digital grey looking system that actually contains 5 pieces, the extra bag is an extra smaller stuff sack. The bags are slightly lighter weight but still made of the same materials so they may not be as durable. It is most noticeable with the bivy sack and intermediate bag. Be careful if you're buying the newer 5 piece ACU MSS used. I bought some at auction and got burned. Because the new system is still in use DRMO only gets rid of damaged bags. The woodland camo 4 piece systems are being sent to auction as soon as their returned. I ended up with a ton of bags that still had tags on them. Only a few bags showed sings of wear and only 2 damaged bags out of probably 100.

This wasn't meant to be an advertisement but if anybody is looking for one of these systems feel free to PM me. I have 5 or 6 systems left. Even if you don't want to buy one from a guy on the forum I have a lot of experience with them and can answer any questions you may have.

I'm seeing these pop up all over the place here lately. My question is what is the fill? Synthetic or down? I'm thinking about getting a few for the family, and started wondering about modding them for under/top quilt use.

Synthetic fill. I primarily use the patrol bag late spring-early fall. When Temps go below 40 I'll switch to the intermediate bag. The bivy has an unintended awesome use. You can fit your sleeping pad down in it then put your patrol bag in on top and you stay snug, warm, dry and don't have to chase your sleeping pad around all night.

I'm fairly new to hammock camping so I'm not sure what parts of the system work best for that application. I pretty much have only used the patrol bag while hammocking. As with anything in the hammock an under quilt or sleeping pad is needed when it gets colder.

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Originally Posted by stevebo

what is the military replacing them with? (you said they are being phased out)

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Wiggy's also makes bags for some of our military....

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This bag was originally made for the Ecotat Company when they sold their shelter (which we sell now) to the military.

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http://wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=299

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Made for the U.S. Air Force survival kits

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http://wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=305

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I was working with a Marine Corps major in 1989 till 1992 when he was reassigned. He personally used my bags as he was a mountaineer. When the gulf war was immanent he asked if I could make a bag that would fit a particular pocket of the ALICE backpack. The bag was the Desert bag. He ordered 200. A down sized version of the Nautilus. 80 inches long, 31 inches wide at the top tapering to 27 inches at the foot. The war ended very quickly so they were never sent to the Middle East, instead they were sent to 29 Palms, CA. Marine base. They spent 30 days in the field. Imagine my surprise when I found out 200 young men all wearing the same clothing, eating the same food, involved in the same activity for a month. The lowest temperature they encountered was 28 or 29 degrees F. All were very happy. A test of a product in the civilian world like that is impossible

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http://wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=57

I've seen other text like that mostly in the news section but not sure how to find them....

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Originally Posted by fallkniven

Wiggy's also makes bags for some of our military....


"I was working with a Marine Corps major in 1989 till 1992 when he was reassigned. He personally used my bags as he was a mountaineer. When the gulf war was immanent he asked if I could make a bag that would fit a particular pocket of the ALICE backpack."

I've seen other text like that mostly in the news section but not sure how to find them....

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I'm pretty sure this Major is the guy who put me onto Wiggy's. I bought mine in '91, it is still in service with me. As I understand it the FTRSS system is what started the military on their current system that is being replaced. When the new system came out, I tried it and was not as happy with it, so I went back to my gear closet and pulled the Wiggy's out again. One of the things Wiggy's does different is they laminate their insulation to the shell, rather than quilt it, this minimizes compression which causes cold spots. These bags have been a literal life saver on several occasions.

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Originally Posted by fallkniven

I couldn't reccomend them enough, just great bags. Moisture is afraid of these bags! Made in the USA too.

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+1 tried, tested, hooked. The weight for me has proven worth it.

Here is one example https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...21#post1097221

I've used the sleep system in my hammock down to 15* with a PLUQ. I ended up cool but could sleep. I probably would have been fine if I had polypros on.

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Originally Posted by amilykovic

The -30 like they claim will keep you alive. It would be a horrible night with no sleep but you would live.

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Couldn't have said this better myself!!! That and they're HUGE and HEAVY!!!

What is the weight on the green and black bags?

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Originally Posted by dougalcorn

What is the weight on the green and black bags?

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Too heavy to consider. I used to own the system, but returned everything except the bivy, which is close to 2 pounds. In guessing between 6-8 pounds.

I can't stress how huge it is too once inside it's stuff sack.

Noticed them in Sportsman's Guide's catalogue yesterday. Click HERE for more info. Watch the video to see these bags in action. They certainly look big enough and wide enough to modify into a peapod for hammock use. :D

Look up the elite survival systems halo recon 5. What makes it so unique and perfect for using with a hammock (if you like sleeping bags) is it's center zip construction... Easy to get in and out of...

http://www.elitesurvival.com/sleepin...-sleeping-bag/

I just love my system. It is huge, it is warm, I am not going to get wet in it unless I end up falling into water. I wish mine were a bit shorter. I sleep really cold so I use the works, down to about 45 F. colder than than that I add more clothing.

When I travel home, I always take my system with me, because there is alway the chance of getting stuck in a blizzard. I feel that with proper clothing and they system I can go through about anything.