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my trusty industrial maching has died and is beyond repair. so i pulled out the portable one last night and it broke on me as well so now im left to hand sewing to finish my projects. so now i have to wait till next week to find a new sewing machine.
anyone have a favorite and why.
also i need one with the capability of sewing thick fabric/straps and be able to use thick heavyduty thread.
thanks
BT
How did your industrial machine die beyond repair? That might make a difference in suggesting what machines might be best for you. If you use a machine that hard then a home machine will _not_ meet your needs. Particularly a new cheap one.
well i was trying to sew two straps together and the machine kept knotting up under the straps and breaking needles and finally bent the rods that the needle ties into and the portable one is just a piece and wont even push the needle throught the straps so i kinda took my frustration out on it so needless to say it in many many pieces and i felt slightly better lol but now my fingers hurt cause i had to hand sew for about 6 hours last night and ive got another 3-4 hours i have to sew by thursday night lol. wish me luck.
Sounds like your best bet would be an industrial machine. A home machine is not likely to be able to take that kind of use for long. One of the issues with a home machine, especially now, is the motors are not suited for that kind of use.
The other option you might look into is one of the really old Singer models. Some of them are being used as industrial machines in developing nations. The problem is they are becoming increasingly rare.
I might also recommend a treadle but for some issues unique to them. First, parts are becoming impossible to find for some. They are much slower than an industrial and the belt can slip under particularly hard or thick loads.
I would encourage you to look in the industrial market. I know very little about what is available in that area of the market.
Maybe they were punishing you for the lack of punctuation... :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTurtle
If your industrial machine was acting up that badly I am willing to bet it wasn't the double straps but something else not quite right with the machine. Anyway, you are likely to get about a thousand different answers to your question.
I have only ever sewn on one industrial machine; a Consew, so that is my favorite. :cool:
If you want a new machine and have the money for an industrial then I would recommend a Juki if you want an older then a singer from pre 1950 are about indestructible. For a bit less than the juki you can get a tacsew walking foot. I have not used these but there are a bunch of gear makers using these. Good luck. I have two industrials singer 107 and singer 400 and one home machine which is a singer 66 when I upgrade to a walking foot it will either be a juki or the tacsew.
i have a Kenmore 12 stitch that has served me well ..but i use my Necchi most of the time.
it's a sweet machine ;)
As long at is ALL metal, cast iron, brass, and steel, (or with cast-aluminum upper housing), it will have no problem with a size 18 (and maybe) a 20 needle and Tex70 thread. Those would include most of the Kenmores though the 1970s and most of the Class 15 machines from Japan. Also, many Singer home machines sold through the 1970s, as long as they were expensive then and there was nothing but metal in the drive train.
The motors are 100-130 watt rated, but it is trivial to hang larger motors on many that already suspend them from brackets. I'm not supposed to be able handle bonded Tex90 thread with those, but for short duty cycles, like for polyester straps, those machines and an early Necchi, too, seem not to struggle at all. No broken needles. No overheated motors.
You refer to bring out a "portable". Well all of those machines I'm referring to were portable, in their day, with carrying cases sold for many. 30-40lb portable.
Just to be clear: I'm referring to a duty cycle that is at most what you can be done by a skilled tailor. All bets off if you expect the feed dogs to drag, unassisted, heavy canvas or dozens of yards of lighter canvas all day.
Put it another way: Look at what Sailrite, a capable company, is selling for $800- $1100. http://search.sailrite.com/category/...arm-big-n-tall Machines with the same build strength from 1940-1975 are at your thrift store for < $50.
What's your model of industrial sewing machine?
Depending on your model I'd be more inclined to spend the $$ to fix the industrial machine. If I understood correctly, you got bird nesting on the bottom thread and the needle bar somehow got bent?
A new needle bar shouldn't be more than $10 and it sounds like you need to check your timing and watch your tension adjustment when sewing through thicker materials.
You might be able to get away with using the home machine if you used the handwheel to drive the needle rather than relying on the motor, unless you messed up the timing on that one too!
Between the two, the industrials are easier to work on and I find the parts a bit cheaper. I just finished repairing an old Yamata GC8500 that I saved from its previous owner who had somehow managed to snap off every arm on the thread lifter assembly, crack the presser bar, cracked the oil pan (?!), and snapped the needle lifter lever in two. With owner's manual in hand it was cheaper to fix this industrial myself than it was to have my home machine tuned up and certainly cheaper than having to buy a whole new machine.
Best of luck!
Well if you drive cams and bearings were still intact I'd just recommend fixing the industrial. If it's more cathartic to get a different one, this is supposed to be fun. I have a few general favorites for candidates.
If you're doing mostly heavy stuff you should probably look for a consew 206, juki lu-563, Adler 120, or if you find a good deal on a different walking foot.
If you occasionally sew heavy stuff you could look at the juki ddl 5550 or 8700.
The last two able, experienced, and knowledgeable stitchers are referring to genuine industrial machines.
I'm not confused about the difference between genuine commercial / industrial machines and strong domestics. These domestics / home machines are commonly put up and labeled as "industrial" on ebay, complete with displays of multiple layers of stitched denim and belting. An ebay listing label doesn't make them industrial.
For a reality check on duty cycles, one or more of the old line mfgs, maybe Singer, gives guidance on maintenance frequency for one of their home machines:
"Once per year, or an estimated 5-8 hours of operation."
Right, that might be 1% the use of a true industrial machine, where the SM is only operated 1 shift per day, with an 40 hour work-week.
The difference between an industrial sewing machine and a home use is about equal to the difference between a real oven and an ez-bake oven. That ez bake sure makes great cakes, small ones though.
For the cost of a new machine, used industrial will outshine pretty much always. If you're comparing an industrial machine like a consew 206 to a singer 99k and saying they're equal on a short use basis minus feed issues I say that's like comparing tow ratings of vehicles while pushing them downhill. One sure is cheaper and smaller, but for those times when you can't "roll downhill" that 3/4 HP clutch motor sure seems like a good choice.
If you are planning on sewing heavy items I'd suggest taking one small piece of advice. Sewing something your machine isn't meant to sew has a higher than acceptable chance of breaking it. If your machine made in the 1930's breaks and you need parts, you might be able to get them, but do you want to risk it?
well i guess im using the term industrial wrong as my large machine is a sears/kenmore made in the 50's if i remember right but is quite large vs todays machines. but it probably isnt made to run such heavy material and straps like i was trying to sew. so it was probably my fault but the way i look at it is if it cant sew what i need it to sew then it isnt worth much to me. and like i said the other portable one was bought new about 6 years ago and is a BIG PIECE OF COW DUDDE LOL.
If you decide to replace it with a similar machine, use the fly wheel when working such heavy duty projects. You will save the motor and you will be able to feel the machine as it tries to pierce the work. That way you can trouble shoot before any thing serious malfunctions. Remember the heavier the work the higher you top tension needs to be to avoid the birds nests.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTurtle
You might also try a leather needle as they are intended for leather or heavy duty non-woven work. Do _not_ use a leather needle on woven material as it will cut the fabric and rupture the weave.
I would recommend staying earlier than say 1960. That is time when many companies began the shift to plastic/nylon gears. Very heavy duty use will be likely to break those gears as the compounds they used became brittle with age. That is one place the newer machine might be better. The plastics have been improved. But for what you describe you definitely need an all metal drive system.
Older machines are great. They used more metal in them! You might be fine if you check the machine's timing and replace the needle bar if it's bent--some home machine dealers sell their parts for what I consider to be ridiculous amounts of money (ex: I bought a domest machine scroll foot for $30, and bought a similar scroll foot for one of my industrials for $8...). Youtube has lots of good videos on how to accomplish this, so long as you're comfortable taking things apart. Taking pictures of the disassembly process and finding a manual/schematics for your machine would be helpful too.
For sewing through just about anything you want you might consider going for an industrial model. Most of the single needle lockstich machines have a generic design and you really can't go wrong with any of them. Older Singer machines are available almost everywhere I've looked for them (craigslist, ebay, local paper, etc.) and most are pretty affordable costing anywhere between $100 and $300. Attachments will make your machine more versatile. Buttonholes, zig-zag, walking feet, hemmers, binders and lapseam folders of all kinds. Ebay has a plethora of refurbished and economical purchasing options.
On the other hand, it seems industrial sewing machine dealers (for parts & service if/when needed) are few and far between. Dealers who sell typical (or certain atypical, like the Berninas, Elnas and other higher end home machines) don't typically play in the same ball field as the industrial dealers so you would need to be more mechanically self-sufficient.
Someone mentioned the SailRite portable machines. These are designed for making sail repairs in the 'field' and will work on heavy duty materials (canvas, sunbrella, dacron, etc.). I like also that their machine has a walking foot, a straight stitch in addition to a zig-zag stitch. What more could a thread-pusher want out of a machine?
Pag:
I know you were a trained and skilled tailor before you were a mechanical engineer. On the metaphor, we don't know whether almost all of the time the ride will in fact be all downhill, and the task is mostly steering the operator can manage. But, in the note quoted below, there's an explanation of why some old iron is capable of a wider range of performances, at least on a light duty cycle, than many specialized industrial machines. That and OP's post a while ago about impingements on his businesses growth lead me to think he's not in the market for a Consew 199R, truly the industrial, heavy duty-cycle -- version of the multi-purpose old heavy home iron ZZ.
On your affection for and the the undoubted greater capability of any 3/4 horsepower motor --clutch or servo -- I just looked up this tagline I first saw 15 years ago: (and am surprised by who it is attributed to)
Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.
-Enzo Ferrari
Smilies, of course, and with the greatest respect.
OP: Here's a communication I got from a serious and more qualified amateur than I am, who like me favors not just old iron, but for zig zag, old iron that is "end loader", with the bobbin on the left and the entire shuttle mechanism and its enclosure moving for zig-zag. (Yes, that's a lot of mass to oscillate, compared to just needle-bar, feed dogs, and shuttle.) Notice the thread and needle size, and a suggestion of a good Singer to look for locally, one which would be capable for several layers of 1 oz nylon, but also the occasional strap and harness work.
My primary focus is on using domestic machines for "near industrial" purposes. The old S[traight]S[titch] Singers (and probably others) would routinely take up to size 21 needles and v92 (heavy) thread as the old machines had to sew the occasional horse collar as well as clothing. With the advent of ZZ and the rotary hook, everything changed. Since in ZZ with a rotary or oscillating hook, the hook has to grab the stitch early on one side of the ZZ and late on the other, the tolerances are more critical than in SS where the hook always grabs the stitch at the optimum point in the middle. Therefore in modern ZZ machines, the play needs to be a minimum and the needle size and thread size need to be in a tighter range than in the older SS machines.
That is how I got into this.
The solution, if it can be called one since it is a compromise, is to use a transverse hook which moves and is always under the needle, even in ZZ. Therefore the tolerances can be opened up just like the older SS machines.
The Sailrite semi-industrial sailmaker machine is a good example. But Singer did make one ZZ machine like that and the last good Singer for this purpose is the 237. It has all metal gears and a translating hook and takes up to size 21 needle and large thread just like the older Singer ss machines. The Singer 237, and I have 3 of them, were made in the Monza Italy plant and are the last of the "good" Singers for this purpose. Since then they are all clothing machines with a max needle size of 18 at best and generally plastic gears.
The point here is that the Singer 237 machines can have more end play tolerance etc. but the newer machines combine the end play, needle size, and thread size to determine what can be sewn. So reduce the end play as much as you can if you want the other variables like needle and thread size as large as possible.
Listen to PAG. He knows what he's talking about.
You're sewing straps, mostly.
OP is making quilts, mostly. How many machines should OP buy, and which ones, when he reported in his first post resorting to finishing work by hand? Suggested expenditure and where he should have them serviced?
http://blog.sew-classic.com/2008/11/...ing-guide.aspx
covers it.
Actually the OP never mentioned quilts. He may link to his quilt business in his signature but what he asked about is a machine capable of sewing thick fabric/straps with heavyduty thread. So IOW not your average home machine, and if he will be doing it with any sort of regularity he'll prolly want an industrial machine as suggested by Pag. There is no sense in regularly running a 1950's home machine on the ragged edge of what its capable of when you could just get the right tool for the job in the first place. Even a Sailrite would be preferable to most home machines IMHO.
I'll read with interest your (plural) assistance in helping OP buy the machines he needs. The appearance here will help others who wish to start or grow a business, too.
Here's one marketplace to window-shop used industrial machines.
http://www.miamisewing.com/miami_price.htm
For growing a business I wouldn't suggest a home use machine... ever. There are a couple reasons actually. First off when you do grow there comes a time to upgrade no matter what machine you're using and industrial machines resell better than home use. Second reason is if you are planning on sewing anything many times you can dial in sewing aides on an industrial to ensure repeatability and guarantee results using seam guides (powered or passive), folders, binders or even programmable fabric guides (best on high volume). The shear number of styles of industrial machines doesn't mean you need all of them. I'd be willing to bet most cottage industries could do well right now with a standard straight stitcher like a juki ddl 5550 or 8700.
I do admire anyone who quotes Enzo Ferrari as he's a hero of mine. As it applies to sewing machines I would say with no hesitation an industrial is more efficient at power transmission and they do it at higher speeds. Most of the benefits of industrial machines however do not come from power but ease of use whether it be from larger bobbins, knee lifters, automatic back tack, thread trimmers, waste chutes, fabric pullers....I can go on for quite a while but I better stop.