Fid devices (Phid)

What sort of DIY Fids are folks using and for what size cord?

Since the search feature won't find results for "fid" I thought centralizing some discussion under a thread with fid in the title might help some find out more about what can be used as a fid for various sizes of cord.

Even though fids are very inexpensive, they seem to come for cord no smaller than 1/4". I've been looking at aluminum knitting needles as I think they are hollow, at least the larger sizes, the smaller ones probably are not.

I'm using the 7/64" amsteel grey and have ended up using a piece of 14 copper wire doubled over.

This seems to work well, but I'm wondering if anyone has found a better house hold appliance to use for cord that small.

OK... I'm a newbie, and I'll bite.

What's a "fid"?

Its a pointy cone shaped piece of wood, bone, metal, used for working between strands of line when splicing or other tactics. All boatswains and sailmakers carry them.

Thanks!

I've actually used one. Now I know what it was that I used! :D

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Originally Posted by Tedinski

Thanks!

I've actually used one. Now I know what it was that I used! :D

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Might have heard it called a Marlinespike. Different beast, but a lot of folks use the terms interchangeably.

I honestly don't remember WHAT it was called -- we spliced a bunch of rope @ reenactment events to hold tops of poles, make eyes in the ends, etc.

Betcha this brass tubing for model airplane fuel lines could be fashioned into some dandy little fids.
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Airpl...Item=brasstube

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Originally Posted by oldgringo

Betcha this brass tubing for model airplane fuel lines could be fashioned into some dandy little fids.
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Airpl...Item=brasstube

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I made a few from brass tubing and they worked fine. I don't think I posted photos of them though. Now I use a doubled piece of .025 - .030 music wire almost exclusively.

Ken

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Originally Posted by Ken

Now I use a doubled piece of .025 - .030 music wire almost exclusively.

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Now how would that work exactly?? Do you have any pictures? I was wondering how people are making whoopie slings out of 1.75mm cord. Maybe this is how they're doing it.

Custom Splice (a member) posted this photo.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...ce/photo-9.jpg

I don't have any others handy. Just take a piece of music wire and double it. Then twist it creating a small loop in the end. Tape the two loose ends to secure them. Push it through your "bury" section, and pull the loose end back through.

Hope that helps,
Ken

I've been using a length of 'florist wire', works well. Fold a 20 inch piece in half, feed the fold section thru the rope, guide it thru the core, exit. Lace cord into the folded eye and pull thru.

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Originally Posted by Ken

Custom Splice (a member) posted this photo.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...ce/photo-9.jpg

I don't have any others handy. Just take a piece of music wire and double it. Then twist it creating a small loop in the end. Tape the two loose ends to secure them. Push it through your "bury" section, and pull the loose end back through.

Hope that helps,
Ken

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Thats how I do it.

Mines not twisted though. Makes getting the tail between the wire very easy.

I use some very fine wire that I bought at a craft strore doubled over (its green too!)and feed the folded end down the line. I stretch the channel first with a crochet needle also bought at a crafts store. It is a very tiny crochet needle. I can't "push" with my setup like a real fid. Honestly not having the crochet part would be better because it sometimes snags fibers a little when you pull it back. Its kind of a one way fid :) I saw some tables about fid lenghts and bury distances and recognize that I am not following the set standards and probably compensate by burying a little longer than I need to.

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Originally Posted by cooldays

I use some very fine wire that I bought at a craft strore doubled over (its green too!)and feed the folded end down the line. I stretch the channel first with a crochet needle also bought at a crafts store. It is a very tiny crochet needle. I can't "push" with my setup like a real fid. Honestly not having the crochet part would be better because it sometimes snags fibers a little when you pull it back. Its kind of a one way fid :) I saw some tables about fid lenghts and bury distances and recognize that I am not following the set standards and probably compensate by burying a little longer than I need to.

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What you need is a knitting needle...

http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/p...DID=xprd582024

Telescoping antennas from old portable radios (ghetto blasters) are a good source of polished, thin-wall tubing in various diameters. Good for a tubular fids.

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Originally Posted by opie

What you need is a knitting needle...

http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/p...DID=xprd582024

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Will that size 1 work on 7/64 amsteel and are they hollow?

I use a Dritz loop turner (product # 647). You can Google "Dritz 647" or go directly to Amazon with the same search, where you'll find it for under $4.00. It works like the tiny splicing tools made for hollow braid fishing line or kite line, but it's the perfect size for 7/64 Amsteel. It also works on NER Dynaglide (but not quite as easily).

Just wrestled with this problem myself and ended up using a "yarn needle" (less than a buck at Walmart) to make 6 whoopies from 7/64 Amsteel. It was quick work and the slings came out perfect.

I pre-tapered the ends and the tapered part fit in the needle's eye slick.

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Originally Posted by cavscout

Will that size 1 work on 7/64 amsteel and are they hollow?

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They are not hollow, you have to use tape.

The size I was using is 2.75mm. It works, but is tight. Im not familiar with the numerical system, But I believe youd want a 0 or 1 size.

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Originally Posted by WVhammockmaker

I use a Dritz loop turner (product # 647). You can Google "Dritz 647" or go directly to Amazon with the same search, where you'll find it for under $4.00. It works like the tiny splicing tools made for hollow braid fishing line or kite line, but it's the perfect size for 7/64 Amsteel. It also works on NER Dynaglide (but not quite as easily).

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I picked one of these up on your recommendation....

The doubled over wire is easier.

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Originally Posted by WVhammockmaker

I use a Dritz loop turner (product # 647). You can Google "Dritz 647" or go directly to Amazon with the same search, where you'll find it for under $4.00. It works like the tiny splicing tools made for hollow braid fishing line or kite line, but it's the perfect size for 7/64 Amsteel. It also works on NER Dynaglide (but not quite as easily).

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Originally Posted by opie

I picked one of these up on your recommendation....

The doubled over wire is easier.

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Sorry to steer you wrong, Opie. A case of YMMV, I guess. I'd offer to buy your loop turner, but I'm guessing you've had enough wrapping and mailing for a while. Thanks again for the Dynaglide group order.

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Originally Posted by WVhammockmaker

Sorry to steer you wrong, Opie. A case of YMMV, I guess. I'd offer to buy your loop turner, but I'm guessing you've had enough wrapping and mailing for a while. Thanks again for the Dynaglide group order.

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No harm... To be honest... I didnt even know what the hook end looked like. It was more out of curiousity than anything.

I have found a use for it. Since I use the locking brummel... on the constrictor for a UCR, I use the hook end to pull the already made loop through the locking of the tail loop.

Im hoping everyone put up pics of what they are doing with their Dynaglide.

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Originally Posted by Cannibal

Might have heard it called a Marlinespike. Different beast, but a lot of folks use the terms interchangeably.

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Just for those who are dying to know, and reluctant to ask, a Marlinspike is metal with a slightly flattened point, and is best used for splicing wire rope. A Fid is wooden, completely round in cross section, and is only good for working with rope. :cool:

Belaying pins, on the other hand, were made with wood or metal. All of them, Marlinspikes, Fid and Belaying Pins, were exceptional at knocking heads during a mutiny, when all other weapons were locked up below. :eek:

- MacEntyre, living in the wrong century :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by MacEntyre

Just for those who are dying to know, and reluctant to ask, a Marlinspike is metal with a slightly flattened point, and is best used for splicing wire rope. A Fid is wooden, completely round in cross section, and is only good for working with rope. :cool:

Belaying pins, on the other hand, were made with wood or metal. All of them, Marlinspikes, Fid and Belaying Pins, were exceptional at knocking heads during a mutiny, when all other weapons were locked up below. :eek:

- MacEntyre, living in the wrong century :rolleyes:

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I suspect serving mallets split their share of skulls, too.

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Originally Posted by oldgringo

I suspect serving mallets split their share of skulls, too.

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Probably right... but there were not as many of them, and they were usually inaccessible, being kept in the Bosun's locker.

Of course, everyone had a knife, but most had no point.

:mellow:

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Originally Posted by MacEntyre

Of course, everyone had a knife, but most had no point.

:mellow:

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Even today, most people don't have a point. ;):eek:

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Originally Posted by angrysparrow

Even today, most people don't have a point. ;):eek:

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Did you have a point with this post?

:lol:

To AS' credit, he has correctly identified the fact that the pronoun in the second part of my compound sentence referred to the subject of the first part, not the predicate object of the first part, as was intended. Thus, his point was to make a friendly pun at my expense. :sleep:

- MacEntyre

TWEET!! Grammar infraction! 5 yards for roughing the list-serve..

KM

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Originally Posted by opie

Since I use the locking brummel...

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Any tutorials around on how to do the locking brummel? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by NCPatrick

Any tutorials around on how to do the locking brummel? Thanks.

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Never mind. I googled it and found the video explaining it again. Thanks anyway!

Here's the wire fid I've been using and the fruits of it's service.... *Edit: 7/64 amsteel and 14 gauge copper wire.

The fid itself is actually 2 or 3 times as long as this so 10"+ buries are not an issue.
http://www.oconeeleatherworks.com/fidscale.jpg

http://www.oconeeleatherworks.com/fidstretch.jpg

And the Dead eye with locking Brummel, the adjustable bury, and the "dead end" or handle.
http://www.oconeeleatherworks.com/Whoopiesec.jpg

Cavscout, what size wire & what size Amsteel are you using?

That's 7/64 amsteel and 14 gauge? copper wire. The label says "14 Red". It was insulated but I stripped that off. I picked up a spool of it at home depot several years ago and it's just been sitting in my garage.

I use a blunt needle with a large eye, and a tiny hooked needle, both of which I found in an old sewing box. I have no idea how they are supposed to be used.

The hooked needle is perfect for pulling out strands for tapering. I cut the strands with Fiskars scissors, near the pivot screw, which area of the blades I rarely use for anything else.

The blunt, large eye needle is the perfect fid for 7/64 Amsteel. If you use a wire, you won't like this method, but it works just like the larger fids I used for splicing braided tow ropes long ago!

:cool:

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Originally Posted by MacEntyre

I use a blunt needle with a large eye, and a tiny hooked needle, both of which I found in an old sewing box. I have no idea how they are supposed to be used.

The hooked needle is perfect for pulling out strands for tapering. I cut the strands with Fiskars scissors, near the pivot screw, which area of the blades I rarely use for anything else.

The blunt, large eye needle is the perfect fid for 7/64 Amsteel. If you use a wire, you won't like this method, but it works just like the larger fids I used for splicing braided tow ropes long ago!

:cool:

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the big one with the "hook" is called a crochet needle and used for .... crocheting. No I do not know how to crochet, but my gf does or did and TeeDee's wife also. They knew right off.

Perhaps the large one is for "needle point"? (I'm guessing... have no idea what "needle pointing" is... probably nothing to do with navigating using a compass.)

.

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Originally Posted by MacEntyre

Perhaps the large one is for "needle point"? (I'm guessing... have no idea what "needle pointing" is... probably nothing to do with navigating using a compass.)

.

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I'd guess that he's talking about a yarn needle
http://www.amazon.com/Colonial-Needl...2494042&sr=8-1

I've used the plastic kind, like in the picture above, for 7/64 line. They are just a little too big for it to be easy. I find them much better for 1/8 line.

There are also metal yarn needles and upholstery needles. Upholstery needles are long, over 6 inches and have a smaller eye than a yarn needle.

The Dritz loop turner that someone recommended on this site (Dritz 647) works great for me; better than yarn needles, upholstery needles, and bent wire.

Another tool you can use is a Permalok Needle. You can buy them, or make one.
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/p...&pictureid=834
For 7/64 I use one of the 2 needles on the left. they're a Size 5 double-ended knitting needle that I threaded the end of. You can kinda see the threads in the second one from the left.
And here's a locked brummel eye with some paracord sheath for abrasion resistance.
http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/p...&pictureid=836

Happy splicing,
Acer

Acer, the chafing gear is a nice touch!

If you use chafing gear that is not fast to the line you are protecting, you never know if you are protecting the line, or the thing that is chafing the line. For light loads, it will do what you want. With heavy loads, you will be surprised!

A fellow disputed that with me once, when we were rigging hurricane moorings. He was using fire hose that was a pretty tight fit to the line he was protecting. After the hurricane, we checked, and sure enough, he had tiny burn marks underneath the chafing gear.

I always make chafing gear in the traditional way, by wrapping cloth or leather around the line, and covering it with small stuff using chafing gear hitches (same as a blanket stitch). That way, the chafing gear is fast to the line it protects.

- MacEntyre

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Originally Posted by MacEntyre

Perhaps the large one is for "needle point"?

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Turns out it is a Tapestry needle...

:sleep: