CCF pad & UQ together

I'm guessing this has been asked a million times before so apologies for that, if anyone's got a link to an existing thread please put the link up and I'll take a look.

I got into a discussion with some friends the other day about using a CCF pad to boost the performance of a synthetic UQ, I've never tried the combination but I hope some of you guys have in the past. My thoughts were that the CCF would block out your radiated heat and therefore prevent the UQ from working as well, the other side of the argument was that it would help boost the overall performance when used together.

The quilt isn't mine as I use down now, but I did have the same one once upon a time, I've happily used it down to -11*C (12*F) and could see it reaching it's limit around -15*C (5*F). The friend is heading to Lithuania for a hanging trip soon and temperatures are expected around -20*C (-5*F).

Would packing a CCF pad be a good idea or would it make matters worse?

check this new thread out I found very interesting:

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...hlight=Lattice

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Originally Posted by Dos

check this new thread out I found very interesting:

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...hlight=Lattice

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Interesting idea, I can't see any mention of using it with a UQ though? I can see the gaps would reduce condensation issues and it sounds like it's pretty comfy too.

Most know I am a ccf pad fan. In my experience the condensation issue decreases as it gets colder. I believe this is because the ccf is too warm for the temps people use it. Anyway, using ccf and uq together does work well. Try it out.

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Originally Posted by Shewie

.......... My thoughts were that the CCF would block out your radiated heat and therefore prevent the UQ from working as well, the other side of the argument was that it would help boost the overall performance when used together.

The quilt isn't mine as I use down now, but I did have the same one once upon a time, I've happily used it down to -11*C (12*F) and could see it reaching it's limit around -15*C (5*F). The friend is heading to Lithuania for a hanging trip soon and temperatures are expected around -20*C (-5*F).

Would packing a CCF pad be a good idea or would it make matters worse?

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Adding a pad adds R value , just like using a thicker quilt adds R value. If your heat output is not making it into the layers of your UQ, it must mean your heat is staying near your back instead of disappearing down below. If your pad is not thick enough to block all of your body heat from escaping below, then that heat will travel on down into the UQ in a normal fashion.

IOW, I can not see how not losing your body heat down below so that it can warm up your UQ can actually be a problem, though some will disagree with me. On the practical side, many a cold back or butt has been cured by adding a pad to an UQ. It has saved me more than once when I found out I was below the abilities of my IX UQ, and it has saved many others from a miserable night also.

One big caveat! If your pad somehow interferes with the fit and "seal" of your UQ, it might not help or might even make matters worse. I suspect, but do not know, that wider, larger ( but not thicker ) pads and very stiff pads might be more prone to that UQ fit interference. Also, do not forget the multi-use possibilities of a pad: emergency go to ground, sit pad, fire fanner, pack frame, etc etc.

I'm currently testing a new hammock with a pad sleeve. It works great, but the pad is only 20" wide so my shoulders got cold at 27°F. Adding both quilt and pad is a great combination and yes it works.

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Originally Posted by DuctTape

Most know I am a ccf pad fan. In my experience the condensation issue decreases as it gets colder. I believe this is because the ccf is too warm for the temps people use it. Anyway, using ccf and uq together does work well. Try it out.

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I will one day, if we ever get a winter instead of just rain :)

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Originally Posted by BillyBob58

Adding a pad adds R value , just like using a thicker quilt adds R value. If your heat output is not making it into the layers of your UQ, it must mean your heat is staying near your back instead of disappearing down below. If your pad is not thick enough to block all of your body heat from escaping below, then that heat will travel on down into the UQ in a normal fashion.

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Thanks BB, interesting thoughts. In the case of the UQ alone not being sufficient, adding the pad increases the R-value of the combined system. But how likely is it that any heat coming from the UQ passes back through the CCF and heats the body? No doubt there's a formula somebody's worked out :) So in effect, if the heat cannot pass back through the CCF then the area of UQ underneath it is not doing anything. Or is there more of an ambient temperature increase, say down the sides?

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Originally Posted by BillyBob58

I can not see how not losing your body heat down below so that it can warm up your UQ can actually be a problem, though some will disagree with me. On the practical side, many a cold back or butt has been cured by adding a pad to an UQ. It has saved me more than once when I found out I was below the abilities of my IX UQ, and it has saved many others from a miserable night also.

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I also use a piece of Reflectix under my butt on really cold nights, my Snugfit could do with a couple more ounces around the butt area :) The piece I use is only 18x18" so it doesn't restrict the work of the UQ much.

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Originally Posted by dejoha

I'm currently testing a new hammock with a pad sleeve. It works great, but the pad is only 20" wide so my shoulders got cold at 27°F. Adding both quilt and pad is a great combination and yes it works.

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Thanks Derek, so you've noticed the difference at low temps?


Thanks for the input folks, this one I've always been curious about

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Originally Posted by Shewie

Thanks Derek, so you've noticed the difference at low temps?

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Be interesting to see what Derek says, but I'm willing to bet a dollar he says Yes. I have had the difference be from "dang my back is cold" to " oh man that is nice and warm" within a couple of minutes of adding a pad to some UQs that I pushed beyond their ability.

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My thoughts were that the CCF would block out your radiated heat and therefore prevent the UQ from working as well, the other side of the argument was that it would help boost the overall performance when used together.

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Assuming a good fit, more insulation = more warmth, so the UQ will help but the foam will delay the warmth so the hanger will not feel the instantaneous warmth when the UQ is repositioned in the middle of the night.

If the fit is poor, that is the same as not having the insulation, but that is true for every type of insulation, not just CCF, but any down or synthetic also. Softer, more expensive foams will seal easier, so there is more cost and more value to using cottage vendor's CCF than the stiffest, cheapest, big box store foam. There is the problem, post "CCF" and one is thinking of good EVA foam while another is thinking of Walmart foam.

I actually have found the cheap walmart ccf to be warmer than the "better" stuff. It is stiffer, so I think it compresses less. I first noticed the difference with sit pads. The WM gave me a warm tushie very fast, while the other stuff I just wasn't cold.

Hi guys I'm one of the guys going to Estonia and the one who has been bugging poor rich with hanging questions lol.

Do you think a peice of memory foam in between the layers would offer the same amount of insulation as ccf?

I'm thinking you will prob get a better deal with memory foam.

Happy New Years chaps

Steve

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Originally Posted by Jacko1066

Hi guys I'm one of the guys going to Estonia and the one who has been bugging poor rich with hanging questions lol.

Do you think a peice of memory foam in between the layers would offer the same amount of insulation as ccf?

I'm thinking you will prob get a better deal with memory foam.

Happy New Years chaps

Steve

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Won't it compress with your weight? If it does, there won't be much insulation relative to it's uncompressed thickness. Ought to be very comfy though!

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Originally Posted by BillyBob58

Adding a pad adds R value , just like using a thicker quilt adds R value. If your heat output is not making it into the layers of your UQ, it must mean your heat is staying near your back instead of disappearing down below. If your pad is not thick enough to block all of your body heat from escaping below, then that heat will travel on down into the UQ in a normal fashion.

IOW, I can not see how not losing your body heat down below so that it can warm up your UQ can actually be a problem, though some will disagree with me. On the practical side, many a cold back or butt has been cured by adding a pad to an UQ. It has saved me more than once when I found out I was below the abilities of my IX UQ, and it has saved many others from a miserable night also.

One big caveat! If your pad somehow interferes with the fit and "seal" of your UQ, it might not help or might even make matters worse. I suspect, but do not know, that wider, larger ( but not thicker ) pads and very stiff pads might be more prone to that UQ fit interference. Also, do not forget the multi-use possibilities of a pad: emergency go to ground, sit pad, fire fanner, pack frame, etc etc.

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+1 on what BB said

I don't have an UQ, just an egg crate texture blue Wally pad and a thin Army CCF. In my RR, I've been very warm into the teens using both at the same time, stacked. Total price of both pads together was around $25-30.

I don't understand what the advantage would be in adding an UQ to one of my pads vs 2 pads stacked. The lay would be the same I imagine because in both cases, I'm laying on the pad. Teens is about the lowest I will be at, so I'm already good there.

The only advantage of UQ/pad over 2 pads I can see would possibly be a decrease in the amount of condensation the next morning between my back (I'm in a sleeping bag) and the top of the pad. It does get wet there. Maybe the condensation wouldn't be so bad because the UQ would keep the pad warmer, I'm just guessing here....

I recently made an UQ with Climashield that is rated for 40*. I have used it in temperatures in that range and could tell that 40* was an accurate representation of the limit of the insulation. Last night I decided to hang in the backyard to see if adding a pad would actually increase the insulative capabilities of the system. I had some sheets of 1/8" white insulation normally used for protective packing of computer and appliances that I slid into the pad sleeve in the hammock. I used my 20* mummy sleeping bag as a TQ. The temps got down into the low 30s last night and I had no problem with being cold at all. I did notice that there was some sweat on the hammock this morning, but apparently not enough to rob me of any BTUs.

SE

I have a 40* shamu underquilt... I made a sock that took me down to 25*ish... Adding a pad took me down warmly to 18*... Regardless what the logic is... It works for me...

I have used a pad with a under quilt and it seemed to help

I used pads for a while before I could afford under quilts. The only real challenge is to get coverage for the shoulders. Stacking, turning, and using extenders are all workable options. The hammock I'm currently testing has a sleeve, not a double layer. It keeps the pad in place nicely, but no shoulder pads.

The past few nights I've used a full length pad, a 1.75" thick self inflating pad. The under quilt is a 20°F. It's only been 27-30°F at night. The other night I tested just the pad so I removed the under quilt. I really expected to get CBS especially where the pad was creased. To my delight, I was just as warm underneath with the under quilt--EXCEPT on my shoulders. The previous nights I slept blissfully, but with cold shoulders I didn't sleep as deeply. Side sleeping helped a little.

I'm sure the UQ would be helpful with the pad at folder temps, but it really didn't add anything to my warmth except around my shoulders.

I agree with others that any added insulation and thickness would help.