Underquilt Ideas

So I've been thinking about how to make a new down underquilt...trying to maximize warmth and utility and minimize weight. Gonna try some things I haven't done yet, but I wanted to ask a few questions and get your comments on the ideas first.

1 - Length. I think it's gonna be a half-quilt so I can carry a sit pad/torso pad to use under my legs...maybe 40".

2 - Width. What's the narrowest underquilt you've used? I think I could get away with ~30" if I had to, but I want a little more comfort than that. But I don't think I want to go over 40". What have y'all used? Advantages/disadvantages?

3 - Shape. I'm gonna make it a bathtub shape since it's a single-use item. Might even put some shaping into the silnylon layer like the Speer Snug-fit has, but I'm not sure that's needed since it's only a half-quilt. The outer layer will be darted so compression shouldn't be an issue. It might even have an assymetrical shape...even on the DownHammock I see some extra space on the corners that could be trimmed off. Ideas?

4 - Thickness. Haven't figured this one out yet. I kinda want a 1-1.5" quilt for the warmer seasons here in North Cackalacky, but I also want a really thick one (3.5"?) for cold weather.

5 - Once I decide on thickness, I'll figure out the baffle pattern. I'd like 3 oz of down per chamber to make future models easier since that's what down comes in. What baffle pattern do you think will work well for a half-underquilt?

6 - Breathability. I've seen the effects of a simple layer of silnylon with no insulation in warming me up before (my first trip w/ the HH BULA)...I'm gonna make the layer that touches the hammock from grey silnylon to to see if that adds warmth. It'll also keep my body moisture from getting into the down...which means it'll stay in the hammock. Hopefully this won't give me the problems that laying on a CCF pad gives me...if it does, the next model won't use silnylon. I just want to give this one a try to see if sil adds any warmth over DWR - If I get the design right, I might make another from DWR on both sides to see how it works. (Can never have too many underquilts, right? Right?!) Opinions on using the sil like that?

7 - Elastic? I was thinking about putting some elastic around parts of the perimeter to snug it up, like the Potomac has, only lighter and not adjustable. And not around the whole perimeter. Where are the strategic places to put the minimum amount of elastic to have the maximum effect?

8 - How would you attach it to the hammock? I'm thinking about sewing small loops to the hammock's edges, then using shockcord/cordlocks to slip through the loops and tighten. That should minimize the length of the shockcord and eliminate heavy biners. Anyone tried this method, or have a better one?

So this is what I do at night when I can't sleep - lay in bed and think about this stuff. Now you can too!! Help me out here, folks! :D

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Originally Posted by Just Jeff

So I've been thinking about how to make a new down underquilt...trying to maximize warmth and utility and minimize weight. Gonna try some things I haven't done yet, but I wanted to ask a few questions and get your comments on the ideas first.

2 - Width. What's the narrowest underquilt you've used? I think I could get away with ~30" if I had to, but I want a little more comfort than that. But I don't think I want to go over 40". What have y'all used? Advantages/disadvantages?

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for my DIY bridge I made an underbody that snugs up to the bottom of the hammock, and a cover that holds a quilt up against the underbody. The cover width is 36"; I puff up a 48" wide JRB quilt and have it in a 36" wide space.

That's enough. I could get by with a narrower width, maybe 34 or 32 inches, if the underbody was fastened to the hammock at the sides like you are suggesting for the quilt. As the underbody is not, it does slide a little up one side or the other as I move, and that's where the "extra" width in 36" comes in handy.

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So this is what I do at night when I can't sleep - lay in bed and think about this stuff.

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well clearly what you need to do is get out and get into your hammock so you sleep! :)

Grizz

Before you do all the work and sew in the layer of Sil, you might try an experiment to see if it gives you a condensation problem. Throw a layer between an existing quilt and your hammock. If you get wet, you'll know not to use it!!!

I like the idea of a more custom fit. The downside is that it will only fit that style of hammock. The upside is less weight and a better fit with less air gaps.

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Originally Posted by Just Jeff

8 - How would you attach it to the hammock? I'm thinking about sewing small loops to the hammock's edges, then using shockcord/cordlocks to slip through the loops and tighten. That should minimize the length of the shockcord and eliminate heavy biners. Anyone tried this method, or have a better one?

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I was thinking of having loops sewn onto the sides of my Claytor for attaching a UQ or equipment bag, or whatever, but I was wondering if I would first need to sew a length of supporting material along the edge of the hammock or whether I could just sew the loops to the material used for the zipper

1. Is it gonna run from your head to just past you butt?

2. You are already saving weight by reducing length, so I would not cut yourself short on width. I would probably go for something around 40". That's still about 8-10" less width than most under quilts but it should give you plenty of coverage.

3. I really think Speer SnugFit is the most effecient design for an under quilt. If you are brave enough, I would attempt a shaped quilt like the SF. You goona run the baffles length-wise or width-wise? You could always have someone lay in the hammock and shape the quilt to fit the occupant. That way you could design it so that unneeded areas of the quilt could be eliminated.

4. I would go for a thicker quilt because you can always vent the quilt in warmer weather and it would still be usable in cold weather.

5. I would attempt baffles like the Speer SnugFit, running the length of the hammock. You may also try thicker baffles on the bottom with more down where it's needed, and smaller baffles on the sides.

6. I'm not a big fan of having a water proof layer directly under me because it can hold moisture and may make for a clammy backside.

7. Elastic sounds like a good idea. It would make a nice fit.

8. Your loop and shock cord idea sounds like it would be the easiest way to go.

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It might even have an assymetrical shape...even on the DownHammock I see some extra space on the corners that could be trimmed off. Ideas?

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I have been working on a down underquilt setup and have many of the same questions. My current project has 2 down baffles on each side with 20" on bottom for pad. I notice when I lay on the asym that a lot of the down baffles are not being used. I am thinking that designing on the asym is going to most efficient and lightest version.

Looking forward to seeing everyones ideas since I am in the middle of a similar project.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams

well clearly what you need to do is get out and get into your hammock so you sleep! :)

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Clearly...but the wife disagrees that THAT's what I need. Maybe after I convince her to hammock she'll understand... :D

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Originally Posted by txulrich

Before you do all the work and sew in the layer of Sil, you might try an experiment to see if it gives you a condensation problem. Throw a layer between an existing quilt and your hammock. If you get wet, you'll know not to use it!!!

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No. That's a stupid idea. Too much common sense - don't you know gear testeres have to make things as difficult as possible?! :D

Gonna try it next time I'm in the hammock...thanks pointing out the obvious that I overlooked!

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Originally Posted by nogods

I was thinking of having loops sewn onto the sides of my Claytor for attaching a UQ or equipment bag, or whatever, but I was wondering if I would first need to sew a length of supporting material along the edge of the hammock or whether I could just sew the loops to the material used for the zipper

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I think for an underquilt, you could sew it directly onto the hammock. For a gear bag, it depends on how much weight you put in it.

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Originally Posted by headchange4u

1. Is it gonna run from your head to just past you butt?

Yes.

3. I really think Speer SnugFit is the most effecient design for an under quilt. If you are brave enough, I would attempt a shaped quilt like the SF. You goona run the baffles length-wise or width-wise? You could always have someone lay in the hammock and shape the quilt to fit the occupant. That way you could design it so that unneeded areas of the quilt could be eliminated.

I was thinking of having three down chambers, maybe running lengthwise. Maybe even cut on a differential. And the middle chamber will have more down than the side ones. Still figuring this out, though.

I've given some thought to the inner layer of the SnugFit. Not sure it's needed for a half-quilt, though - the air gaps under the legs won't be a problem and that's the biggest advantage to the Speer style. Maybe a little bit under the back? We'll see...

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Good comments, y'all...keep 'em coming! Hopefully I'll find some times over the holidays to at least make this...maybe even test it! But all the time I wait to make it can go into thinking about the design. But not while I'm at work...never that.

I want to attempt the same thing with Climashield, basically a 3/4 KAQ. Patrick's site says that someone has done this and thru'd the AT with it. I always thought the JRB's were wider than necessary, though I agree with Headchange that 40in would be a good width.

Yeah - 40" might be about right. I like to lay on my back with my legs bent and feet together so my knees raise up and rest on the sides of the hammock. If I'm on a pad my legs get cold b/c there's no side insulation, but I think a 40" quilt would be just enough to keep them warm. Plus it would be a little less finnicky on setup.

Since I started carrying a sit pad, I see no reason for a full-length underquilt. I don't get the condensation issues on my legs that I get on my torso when I sleep on a CCF pad, and since CCF is lighter and multi-use, it's a good fit for my style. Right now, at least - I'm sure I'll find something else to tinker with as soon as I'm satisfied with this system!

I made a "mini sized" underquilt from some leftover material from a Ray-Way quilt kit. It ended up being about 36 inches wide. I wish it was about 6 inches wider, but it works OK. It was originally a "just below my butt" length pad. I ended up adding about a foot to the length so my then 8 year old could use it as a full length underquilt. He still uses it now at 12, but has to use a pad from the knees down.

I made it sort of shaped like the old west coffins (6 sided shape), but with the widest part at the hips instead of at the head. I added loops and bungee cords to let me form fit it to the hammock. It worked pretty well.

If I was making it again, I would:

1) make it in 2 sections that could be velcroed together to make a full length underquilt when needed.
2) definately make it 40-42 inches wide.
3) put a channel at the head and foot ends with a drawstring in it to let me snug it to the hammock a little easier than the loop and bungee method.

width... i wouldn't skimp to much on the width myself. just the other night i was reminded about cold shoulders, elbows, but, & knees<g>.

shape... i think "canoe" fits the shape i like best... sorta like the hammock it' self. except a canoe w/ both ends cut off.
with most under quilts there's extra stuff at both ends that is gathered up to match the smaller ends of the hammock, but unless you want the extra width & drawstring so you can vent, that's an area you can shave weight & bulk.
one thing i have thought about adding to my next underquilt is a thin, down filled, draft collar on the inside of both ends to create a good seal.

attachment... i like the idea of sewing loops onto the hammock edges.

Great post Just Jeff and the timing is perfect for me as I am ordering some down tomorrow. There are so many different ideas and designs that wading through them for a first time DIY down filled quilt is a daunting task.

I am leaning towards a shaped quilt to reduce weight and using side tie outs for attachment. Thickness of about 1.5 or 2 inches and as I have NO experience in using one and have not seen any that are comercialy available I am not sure if making the pockets run length ways or having them run from side to side is the best way to go. You talk about putting darts in one of the fabric shells to make it conform to the hammock better. Are you thinking along the lines of the kick *** quilt design?

If past projects have taught me one thing it is that as the first one evolves, at some part near the end I can see what I should have done...

Once again.... Thank you for all the great ideas that get bounced around in this forum.

I guess what I'm thinking of is a kickass/snugfit/warbonnet hybrid. Kickass b/c it's a bathtub shape, snugfit b/c I might put darts on the inside so it poofs out against my back, and warbonnet b/c it's a half-quilt.

I'm thinking, for a half-quilt, darts running lengthwise might work best.

And of course, as I'm making it I'll figure out what to do for version 2!!

jeff, i just made a newest 1/2 length for cannibal, i'm actually still playing around with it. it's asym baththub shaped. the asym comes in by having a little bulge at the left shoulder, and the ends are cut a little slanted since the quilt sits slightly diagonal on the hammock, that way it still comes down the same length on both legs. same idea at the head end too.

these dimensions are for the sheet that contacts the hammock, and are the raw cut dimensions, after sewing the finished dimensions are obviously a bit narrower/shorter. the outer shell is cut on the differential and is thus bigger, how much larger depends on the thickness of the quilt.

these dimensions are the result from at least 5 different versions, the first few were a bit too narrow.

the length is 44.5" this covers from the top of my neck to about 5" past my crotch. (i'm 5'10-11"ish)

the width at the head end is 25.5"
width at shoulder is 39" going more than a couple inches less than that will be pushing it, and the quilt will have to be perfectly centered underneath you to provide enough coverage on each side.
width in middle is 39.5"
width at bottom end is 30"

there is a hem on each side, and shock cord runs through it and goes up to the ends of the hammock where it is attached. these are the only suspension points. it is nice, b/c the shock cord/hem holds the sides of the uq tight to the side of hammock throughout its length, and if tight enough, it lifts upward enough, pulling the ends up snugly to the bottom of the hammock as well, loosening, will allow the ends to sag just a bit for some ventilation.

another great feature of this, is that since the shock cord runs freely inside the hem, and there are no other attachment points (like at the corners, shock cord just exits the hem at the 4 corners)is that the uq can slide up and down the length of the shock cord/hammock after you are positioned where you want to be. this was an accidental thing, but is one of the coolest features, allowing you to move it up toward your head a bit more or down toward your feet a bit more without having to move yourself, or get out of the hammock.

thats basically it. mine is synthetic, and has a zipper to access the inside so layers of climashield are removeable, and has a breathable shell this time, and i am going to make a removeable sil shell for it as well(since it is not for me, i've had no problems with the permanent sil shell as i've said before)

i also just made some draft-tube like things for sealing off the ends as efficiently as possible when near the limits of the quilt. they are basically 1/2" x 3/4" ocf strips that velcro across the ends of the quilt(an inch or two from the edge). they weigh just under an ounce for the pair. i'm hoping this will seal off any heat from leaking out the ends. i haven't tested them yet, so i don't know if they will make any signifigant difference or not.

i'm also excited to test this version with and without the sil shell to see how much warmth it really adds.

GreenT

I'm not sure what your intended application for the UQ is, but if tis winter sleeping even 2.5" isn't likely to be enough thickness. At least not without lots of extras insulation in pads and clothes etc...

I'm personally thinking about something in the 4"-5" thick range. That when mixed and matched in combination with a 1-2" "summer" synthetic quilt should give good all year sleeping for lows from 15C to -20C...

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Originally Posted by warbonnetguy

jeff, i just made a newest 1/2 length for cannibal, i'm actually still playing around with it. it's asym baththub shaped. the asym comes in by having a little bulge at the left shoulder, and the ends are cut a little slanted since the quilt sits slightly diagonal on the hammock, that way it still comes down the same length on both legs. same idea at the head end too.

these dimensions are for the sheet that contacts the hammock, and are the raw cut dimensions, after sewing the finished dimensions are obviously a bit narrower/shorter. the outer shell is cut on the differential and is thus bigger, how much larger depends on the thickness of the quilt.

these dimensions are the result from at least 5 different versions, the first few were a bit too narrow.

the length is 44.5" this covers from the top of my neck to about 5" past my crotch. (i'm 5'10-11"ish)

the width at the head end is 25.5"
width at shoulder is 39" going more than a couple inches less than that will be pushing it, and the quilt will have to be perfectly centered underneath you to provide enough coverage on each side.
width in middle is 39.5"
width at bottom end is 30"

there is a hem on each side, and shock cord runs through it and goes up to the ends of the hammock where it is attached. these are the only suspension points. it is nice, b/c the shock cord/hem holds the sides of the uq tight to the side of hammock throughout its length, and if tight enough, it lifts upward enough, pulling the ends up snugly to the bottom of the hammock as well, loosening, will allow the ends to sag just a bit for some ventilation.

another great feature of this, is that since the shock cord runs freely inside the hem, and there are no other attachment points (like at the corners, shock cord just exits the hem at the 4 corners)is that the uq can slide up and down the length of the shock cord/hammock after you are positioned where you want to be. this was an accidental thing, but is one of the coolest features, allowing you to move it up toward your head a bit more or down toward your feet a bit more without having to move yourself, or get out of the hammock.

thats basically it. mine is synthetic, and has a zipper to access the inside so layers of climashield are removeable, and has a breathable shell this time, and i am going to make a removeable sil shell for it as well(since it is not for me, i've had no problems with the permanent sil shell as i've said before)

i also just made some draft-tube like things for sealing off the ends as efficiently as possible when near the limits of the quilt. they are basically 1/2" x 3/4" ocf strips that velcro across the ends of the quilt(an inch or two from the edge). they weigh just under an ounce for the pair. i'm hoping this will seal off any heat from leaking out the ends. i haven't tested them yet, so i don't know if they will make any signifigant difference or not.

i'm also excited to test this version with and without the sil shell to see how much warmth it really adds.

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Now I REALLY can't wait to try this thing! :D

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Now I REALLY can't wait to try this thing!

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I think Cannibal needs to see some pics! Just post them here:D

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Originally Posted by Cannibal

Now I REALLY can't wait to try this thing! :D

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me first.

i tried it last night without the sil or the draft tubes, and was hot, it only got to 37* though:(

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Originally Posted by HANGnOUT

I think Cannibal needs to see some pics! Just post them here:D

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it's strikingly similar to the pics i posted in the "new hammock specs" thread.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...+hammock+specs

Thanks, gettin old and did not remember the thread.

Pics are a fix, but no cure. It's like waiting for Xmas; new toys!!!!!!!!!! :D

So I made Half-Underquilt prototype 1 tonight. I was going to take the rest of the down out of the DownHammock v1, but instead I decided to just cut it in half and make it an underquilt. It was a little more complicated than that, but there's the general idea. That way I hardly had to worry about any down at all.

- Finished dimensions of the insulated area are about 48"L x 39"W.
- Weight is 12-3/4 oz, not including attachments. ~6 oz of that is down.
- Loft is 4+" on the bottom, but I don't know if it'll really be that much when I hang it.

I haven't really decided how I want to attach it, but it has drawcord channels around all 4 sides. I had planned on shaping it but since I just cannibalized the DownHammock I didn't worry about it...but there's an unexpected consequence to using the DownHammock. The top layer is already stretched out from when I used it as a hammock...so it's already shaped to fit the hammock! I'll still need something on the bottom side to keep it snug, but that should help some.

Another side effect of just cutting down the DownHammock is that I forgot I had taken most of the down from one of the side chambers when I made DownHammock v2...so one chamber is pretty flat. If it really impacts the warmth, I'll restuff it. Otherwise I'm just gonna leave it. This is just a concept demonstrator anyway.

Next version will be olive drab!

you mentioned chambers, but i was thinking your down hammock was one chamber of down.
does this under quilt have more than one chamber of down?

The first down hammock had chambers...that's the one I cannibalized for this underquilt. So yes, the underquilt has three chambers. Baffles run head to thighs.

DownHammock v2 has the one big chamber. I've been satisfied with that so far. One thing I don't like about this down hammock is that I can't sit on the side like a lounger...I have to be all the way in the hammock. The underquilt will fix that.

If I can make it to Mt Rogers, I'll probably use this underquilt and Joker will use the DownHammock.

we hope you & joker can make it. won't be the same w/o you guys.

That's the plan, but work doesn't always agree with plans! I've already mentioned it to him, so it'll be pretty bad if I have to back out!